Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Christophe Henner]

Envoye depuis mon Blackberry

-Original Message-
From: Mark 
Sender: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 05:13:09 
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Reply-To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

Και εγώ συμφωνώ, ας γράψουμε σε όλες τις κλασικές γλώσσες. :)

- Μάρκος

On 3/12/13 3:44 AM, Erwin Mulialim wrote:
> Good morning all,
>   
> I also strongly agree and support when we can use multi language in this 
> mailing list, such as by including the Indonesian language into the 
> “Wikimedia Mailing List” (wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org).
>
> May GOD Bless All of You!
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Claudius Erwin Mulialim
> 
> Owner Q-Tech Computer - Ruteng
> (CV. Montée Vista Media Vision)
>
> -
> From: abar...@wikimedia.org
> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:10:15 -0700
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
>
> No bad words.  My phrase was לשון הרע, which is a legal term in Israel,
> originating in Jewish religious law[1], roughly equivalent to defamation or
> the Roman law 'calumnia', and I was advocating _avoiding_ that if anyone
> chooses to discuss this person (from the Hebrew Wikipedia's past) with the
> press.
>
> A.
>
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Nathan  wrote:
>
>> I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf
>> suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out,
>> because I didn't see any!
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>>
>
>
> --
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org
>
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
> ___
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> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>   
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Mark]

Και εγώ συμφωνώ, ας γράψουμε σε όλες τις κλασικές γλώσσες. :)

- Μάρκος

On 3/12/13 3:44 AM, Erwin Mulialim wrote:

Good morning all,
  
I also strongly agree and support when we can use multi language in this mailing list, such as by including the Indonesian language into the “Wikimedia Mailing List” (wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org).


May GOD Bless All of You!


Best Regards,

Claudius Erwin Mulialim

Owner Q-Tech Computer - Ruteng
(CV. Montée Vista Media Vision)

-
From: abar...@wikimedia.org
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:10:15 -0700
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

No bad words.  My phrase was לשון הרע, which is a legal term in Israel,
originating in Jewish religious law[1], roughly equivalent to defamation or
the Roman law 'calumnia', and I was advocating _avoiding_ that if anyone
chooses to discuss this person (from the Hebrew Wikipedia's past) with the
press.

A.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara


On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Nathan  wrote:


I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf
suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out,
because I didn't see any!

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--
Asaf Bartov
Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Erwin Mulialim]

Good morning all,
 
I also strongly agree and support when we can use multi language in this 
mailing list, such as by including the Indonesian language into the “Wikimedia 
Mailing List” (wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org).

May GOD Bless All of You!


Best Regards,

Claudius Erwin Mulialim

Owner Q-Tech Computer - Ruteng
(CV. Montée Vista Media Vision)

-
From: abar...@wikimedia.org
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:10:15 -0700
To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

No bad words.  My phrase was לשון הרע, which is a legal term in Israel,
originating in Jewish religious law[1], roughly equivalent to defamation or
the Roman law 'calumnia', and I was advocating _avoiding_ that if anyone
chooses to discuss this person (from the Hebrew Wikipedia's past) with the
press.

A.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara


On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Nathan  wrote:

> I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf
> suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out,
> because I didn't see any!
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



--
Asaf Bartov
Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
https://donate.wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Erwin Mulialim]

Good morning all, I also strongly agree and support when we can use multi 
language in this mailing list, such as by including the Indonesian language 
into the “Wikimedia Mailing List” (wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org).

May GOD Bless All of You!


Best Regards,

Claudius Erwin Mulialim

Owner Q-Tech Computer - Ruteng
(CV. Montée Vista Media Vision)

-
 > From: abar...@wikimedia.org
> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 14:10:15 -0700
> To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין
> 
> No bad words.  My phrase was לשון הרע, which is a legal term in Israel,
> originating in Jewish religious law[1], roughly equivalent to defamation or
> the Roman law 'calumnia', and I was advocating _avoiding_ that if anyone
> chooses to discuss this person (from the Hebrew Wikipedia's past) with the
> press.
> 
>A.
> 
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara
> 
> 
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Nathan  wrote:
> 
> > I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf
> > suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out,
> > because I didn't see any!
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Asaf Bartov
> Wikimedia Foundation 
> 
> Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
> https://donate.wikimedia.org
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?

[Liam Wyatt]

On Tuesday, 12 March 2013, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:

> Gerard Meijssen, 11/03/2013 17:51:
>
>> PS as to restricting the world... we do not allow people to state that
>> Julius Caesar is a contemporary of Napoleon Bonaparte in Wikipedia either
>> do we ?
>>
>
> I'm quite sure we do.
>
> Nemo
>

To clarify for my own sake (and hopefully others), are we talking about the
difference between being technically able to do something (I.e. the
software permits a behaviour), as opposed to the policy saying you can do
something (I.e. the community has decided that a behaviour is acceptable or
desired)?


-- 
wittylama.com
Peace, love & metadata
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mid-Year Financial Statements

[Leslie Carr]

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Erik Moeller  wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:06 PM, ENWP Pine  wrote:
>> I'd like to ask you or Gayle about how aggressive WMF is about recruiting 
>> outside of SF.
>
> I'm not Gayle or Garfield, but here's some simple data on the most recent 
> hires:
>
> Sr. Software Engineer, Mobile - to be announced shortly - remote, not 
> relocating
> Sr. Software Engineer, Mobile - to be announced shortly - remote,
> relocating to SF
> Ops Engineer (offer pending) - remote, not relocating

And Ops is still looking for more Engineers, remote or local!
http://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?j=ocLCWfwf&c=qSa9VfwQ
Tell your friends! :)

Leslie

> Greg Grossmeier, Release Manager - SF
> Ed Sanders, Software Engineer, remote, not relocating
> Brad Jorsch, Software Engineer, remote, probably relocating
> Munagala Ramanath, Sr. Software Engineer, remote, relocating
>
> Contractors:
> Marc-Andre Pelletier, Software Engineer, remote
> Kirsten Menger-Anderson, Technical Writer, SF
>
> So the general answer is, yes, we're aggressively [*] looking
> internationally, and we're aggressively hiring internationally, with
> the caveat that some positions are strongly preferred to (ultimately)
> be SF-based to function effectively.
>
> Erik
>
> [*] When it comes to persistence and thoroughness. In actual candidate
> interactions aggression would be somewhat misplaced. ;-)
> --
> Erik Möller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
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-- 
Leslie Carr
Wikimedia Foundation
AS 14907, 43821
http://as14907.peeringdb.com/

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Asaf Bartov]

No bad words.  My phrase was לשון הרע, which is a legal term in Israel,
originating in Jewish religious law[1], roughly equivalent to defamation or
the Roman law 'calumnia', and I was advocating _avoiding_ that if anyone
chooses to discuss this person (from the Hebrew Wikipedia's past) with the
press.

   A.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashon_hara


On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Nathan  wrote:

> I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf
> suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out,
> because I didn't see any!
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



-- 
Asaf Bartov
Wikimedia Foundation 

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Nathan]

I too thought the gmail translate worked really well, until I saw Asaf
suggest they stop using bad words - which I guess gmail stripped out,
because I didn't see any!

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mid-Year Financial Statements

[Brad Jorsch]

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 4:33 PM, Erik Moeller  wrote:
> Brad Jorsch, Software Engineer, remote, probably relocating

Eventually. No idea when.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
 there is always Google translate ... works quite nicely from within
gmail for many languages.
Thanks,
  Gerard


On 11 March 2013 21:11, Fae  wrote:

> On 11 March 2013 19:56, Michael Snow  wrote:
> > Too bad - I was hoping it was a sign that people were taking seriously
> the
> > notion that this could be a multilingual mailing list, not just
> > English-only.
>
> Me too, I thought it was rather refreshing for folks to be
> corresponding here in something other than English; even though that's
> all I can read. :-)
>
> Fae
> --
> Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com
> Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA
> Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mid-Year Financial Statements

[Erik Moeller]

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 1:06 PM, ENWP Pine  wrote:
> I'd like to ask you or Gayle about how aggressive WMF is about recruiting 
> outside of SF.

I'm not Gayle or Garfield, but here's some simple data on the most recent hires:

Sr. Software Engineer, Mobile - to be announced shortly - remote, not relocating
Sr. Software Engineer, Mobile - to be announced shortly - remote,
relocating to SF
Ops Engineer (offer pending) - remote, not relocating
Greg Grossmeier, Release Manager - SF
Ed Sanders, Software Engineer, remote, not relocating
Brad Jorsch, Software Engineer, remote, probably relocating
Munagala Ramanath, Sr. Software Engineer, remote, relocating

Contractors:
Marc-Andre Pelletier, Software Engineer, remote
Kirsten Menger-Anderson, Technical Writer, SF

So the general answer is, yes, we're aggressively [*] looking
internationally, and we're aggressively hiring internationally, with
the caveat that some positions are strongly preferred to (ultimately)
be SF-based to function effectively.

Erik

[*] When it comes to persistence and thoroughness. In actual candidate
interactions aggression would be somewhat misplaced. ;-)
-- 
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Fae]

On 11 March 2013 19:56, Michael Snow  wrote:
> Too bad - I was hoping it was a sign that people were taking seriously the
> notion that this could be a multilingual mailing list, not just
> English-only.

Me too, I thought it was rather refreshing for folks to be
corresponding here in something other than English; even though that's
all I can read. :-)

Fae
-- 
Ashley Van Haeften (Fae) fae...@gmail.com
Chapters Association Council Chair http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WCA
Guide to email tags: http://j.mp/mfae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Mid-Year Financial Statements

[ENWP Pine]

Garfield,

Thanks for the report.

Congrats again to the fundraising team for what they accomplished this for this 
round of fundraising.

The Q&A for the mid-year report talks about a hiring pace that is slower than 
planned, and says "We attribute this to the fact that the market for
engineers is extremely competitive in San Francisco right now." I'd like to ask 
you or Gayle about how aggressive WMF is about recruiting outside of SF. I 
think there are probably engineers at large tech companies outside of SF who 
would enjoy a change of culture from their current employers to WMF if they're 
willing to take a pay cut. I think that they would be good candidates for the 
recruiting team, so I'd strongly encourage aggressive recruiting outside of San 
Francisco.

Thanks,

Pine

  
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Michael Snow]

On 3/11/2013 12:47 PM, Itzik Edri wrote:

Oops. Just noticed that I sent this email to Wikimedia-L instead of WMIL
mailing list. Sorry! :)
Too bad - I was hoping it was a sign that people were taking seriously 
the notion that this could be a multilingual mailing list, not just 
English-only.


--Michael Snow

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Itzik Edri]

Oops. Just noticed that I sent this email to Wikimedia-L instead of WMIL
mailing list. Sorry! :)

2013/3/11 Manuel Schneider 

> מצטער, אני לא מדבר עברית.
>
> מנואל
>
> Am 11.03.2013 14:36, schrieb Itzik Edri:
> > כתב מעיתון מוביל מבקש לדבר עם מישהו על בן הטבע.
> >
> > מישהו מעוניין?
> --
> Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch
>
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[Wikimedia-l] MediaWiki data browser

[ENWP Pine]

There seems to be considerable interest on this email list about WikiData and 
similar projects, so I think some people may be interested in this proposal at 
Individual Engagement Grants. 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/MediaWiki_data_browser. 

Note that the community comment period is closed and the Committee has finished 
its evaluations of all IEG proposals that passed the initial eligibility 
screening. Further work is being done by WMF. The scheduled announcement date 
for grant selections from this IEG round is March 29.


Pine
  
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[Wikimedia-l] Mid-Year Financial Statements

[Garfield Byrd]

Hello:

The mid-year financial statements of the Wikimedia Foundation are available
at the Wikimedia Foundation - Financial Reports
page.
This report is for the period from July 1, 2012 to December 31, 2012.

Please contact me with any questions.

Regards,

Garfield Byrd

-- 
Garfield Byrd
Chief of Finance and Administration
Wikimedia Foundation
415.839.6885 ext 6787
415.882.0495 (fax)
www.wikimediafoundation.org

Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality!

*https://donate.wikimedia.org*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Gerard Meijssen, 11/03/2013 17:51:

PS as to restricting the world... we do not allow people to state that
Julius Caesar is a contemporary of Napoleon Bonaparte in Wikipedia either
do we ?


I'm quite sure we do.

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Asaf Bartov]

אני לא בטוח שכתבה כזו תועיל למטרותינו בשום צורה.

אם מישהו בכל זאת רוצה לספר את הסיפור, אני ממליץ להיזהר מלשון הרע.

- אסף


2013/3/11 Itzik Edri 

> כתב מעיתון מוביל מבקש לדבר עם מישהו על בן הטבע.
>
> מישהו מעוניין?
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
>
> To: it...@wikimedia.org.il
>
>
> הי איציק, בהמשך לשיחתנו, אני מעוניין לדבר עם עורך שהיה שם מימיה הראשונים של
> ויקיפדיה העברית, ומכיר מקרוב את יהודה בלו, שערך בעבר תחת השם בן הטבע לפני
> שהושעה ונחסם. ברצוני לשמוע את הסיפור המלא על מה שקרה שם,
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-- 
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Wikimedia Foundation 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?

[Nikola Smolenski]

On 11/03/13 16:14, Gerard Meijssen wrote:

What we are asking for is that we ensure that the structures that exist in
OmegaWiki are replicated in Wikidata for reasons that are clear and
obvious. Technically there are a few things that make sense to have..

For instance.. In the Dutch language we have a noun, a verb an adjective
 we do not have a country in this class. A noun can be male, female or
neutral  we do not have a stupid.  We have singular and plural and we
do not have dual like in Arabic.


Uh-oh. How will this square with 
http://blog.wikimedia.de/2013/02/22/restricting-the-world/ ? :)


Perhaps this could be a feature of Wikibase that would not be turned  on 
on Wikidata itself, but could be for other installations, such as the 
new Wiktionary.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?

[Denny Vrandečić]

Thank you for the clarification, Gerard. I was indeed misunderstanding the
proposal.

We need to find a central place to discuss a proposal.



2013/3/11 Gerard Meijssen 

> Hoi,
> There is no point at all in maintaining the software currently used by
> OmegaWiki. That would be foolish. Nobody who knows OmegaWiki will ask for
> that.
>
> What we are asking for is that we ensure that the structures that exist in
> OmegaWiki are replicated in Wikidata for reasons that are clear and
> obvious. Technically there are a few things that make sense to have..
>
> For instance.. In the Dutch language we have a noun, a verb an adjective
>  we do not have a country in this class. A noun can be male, female or
> neutral  we do not have a stupid.  We have singular and plural and we
> do not have dual like in Arabic.
>
> When there is a concept, we have synonyms and translations that are used as
> such but do not cover the original concept well. We want to be able to
> indicate this.
>
> Really Denny, all we need is to keep the structure, the data. We do not
> even want to be dogmatic about this (too much). What we want are things
> that fulfil a need, that have a purpose.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
>
> On 11 March 2013 15:51, Denny Vrandečić  >wrote:
>
> > Sorry about the wrong link, I meant this IEG proposal:
> >
> > <
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Wiktionary_-_the_way_it_should_be
> > >
> >
> > but as far as I can tell, this one didn't make it into round 1 (pity,
> > something like that would have made sense, but I understand that the
> > proposal was obviously not detailed enough. Whatever.)
> >
> > I fully agree with Andrea and Nemo that some use cases would be very easy
> > to implement, especially linking between the projects. Commons and
> > Wiktionary though are very different and require more thought:
> >
> > Commons:
> > * easy goals: link to appropriate items for some of the pages in Commons,
> > use data from Wikidata in the creator namespace and similar
> > * more engaging: add metadata to the media files in Commons itself and
> link
> > them to each other and to Wikidata
> >
> > Wiktionary:
> > * easy goals: none. The conceptualization of Wiktionary simply is not a
> > direct fit to the conceptualization in Wikipedia and Wikidata.
> > We need to figure out how they work together. Maybe this page is a good
> > start, and maybe we should collect the ideas there.
> >
> >  > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary>
> > >
> >
> > I mean, OmegaWiki has been around for a while, and they learned many,
> > extremely valuable lessons. A lot of work has went into it, and it would
> be
> > a shame not to build on its experiences and lessons. But I would like to
> > ask the question whether it is the right software or not, even though it
> is
> > a painful question. But please be reminded that I have spent many years
> in
> > the development of Semantic MediaWiki, with the one goal to have it
> > switched on the Wikipedias -- and then to come to the conclusion to *not*
> > use the software as is, and start from scratch.
> >
> > We need a discussion on Wiktionary, and how it can evolve, and if it even
> > should. And I do not think that a cross-mailing list discussion like the
> > current one is the right place, and I do not even know where the right
> > place is.
> >
> > So, first question: where should this discussion take place?
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Denny
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2013/3/11 Federico Leva (Nemo) 
> >
> > > Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52:
> > >
> > >  There is currently a number of things going on re the future of
> > >> Wiktionary.
> > >>
> > >> There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could
> > >> potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then
> > again,
> > >> structured data is often rather easy to transform):
> > >> <
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Requests_for_comment/**Adopt_OmegaWiki<
> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary,
> > >> which I consider a potentially smarter first step:
> > >>
> > >> <
> > >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_**
> > >> Wikisource_strategic_vision<
> >
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision
> > >
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > > That's Wikisource. :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself:
> > >>
> > >>  > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this
> > >> direction.
> > >>
> > >> Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following
> > Wikipedia
> > >> and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or
> > Wikisource
> > >> -- can be served wi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
There is no point at all in maintaining the software currently used by
OmegaWiki. That would be foolish. Nobody who knows OmegaWiki will ask for
that.

What we are asking for is that we ensure that the structures that exist in
OmegaWiki are replicated in Wikidata for reasons that are clear and
obvious. Technically there are a few things that make sense to have..

For instance.. In the Dutch language we have a noun, a verb an adjective
 we do not have a country in this class. A noun can be male, female or
neutral  we do not have a stupid.  We have singular and plural and we
do not have dual like in Arabic.

When there is a concept, we have synonyms and translations that are used as
such but do not cover the original concept well. We want to be able to
indicate this.

Really Denny, all we need is to keep the structure, the data. We do not
even want to be dogmatic about this (too much). What we want are things
that fulfil a need, that have a purpose.
Thanks,
 GerardM


On 11 March 2013 15:51, Denny Vrandečić wrote:

> Sorry about the wrong link, I meant this IEG proposal:
>
> <
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Wiktionary_-_the_way_it_should_be
> >
>
> but as far as I can tell, this one didn't make it into round 1 (pity,
> something like that would have made sense, but I understand that the
> proposal was obviously not detailed enough. Whatever.)
>
> I fully agree with Andrea and Nemo that some use cases would be very easy
> to implement, especially linking between the projects. Commons and
> Wiktionary though are very different and require more thought:
>
> Commons:
> * easy goals: link to appropriate items for some of the pages in Commons,
> use data from Wikidata in the creator namespace and similar
> * more engaging: add metadata to the media files in Commons itself and link
> them to each other and to Wikidata
>
> Wiktionary:
> * easy goals: none. The conceptualization of Wiktionary simply is not a
> direct fit to the conceptualization in Wikipedia and Wikidata.
> We need to figure out how they work together. Maybe this page is a good
> start, and maybe we should collect the ideas there.
>
>  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary>
> >
>
> I mean, OmegaWiki has been around for a while, and they learned many,
> extremely valuable lessons. A lot of work has went into it, and it would be
> a shame not to build on its experiences and lessons. But I would like to
> ask the question whether it is the right software or not, even though it is
> a painful question. But please be reminded that I have spent many years in
> the development of Semantic MediaWiki, with the one goal to have it
> switched on the Wikipedias -- and then to come to the conclusion to *not*
> use the software as is, and start from scratch.
>
> We need a discussion on Wiktionary, and how it can evolve, and if it even
> should. And I do not think that a cross-mailing list discussion like the
> current one is the right place, and I do not even know where the right
> place is.
>
> So, first question: where should this discussion take place?
>
> Cheers,
> Denny
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/3/11 Federico Leva (Nemo) 
>
> > Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52:
> >
> >  There is currently a number of things going on re the future of
> >> Wiktionary.
> >>
> >> There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could
> >> potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then
> again,
> >> structured data is often rather easy to transform):
> >> <
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Requests_for_comment/**Adopt_OmegaWiki<
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki>
> >> >
> >>
> >> There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary,
> >> which I consider a potentially smarter first step:
> >>
> >> <
> >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_**
> >> Wikisource_strategic_vision<
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> > That's Wikisource. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >> There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself:
> >>
> >>  https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Wiktionary>
> >> >
> >>
> >> And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this
> >> direction.
> >>
> >> Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following
> Wikipedia
> >> and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or
> Wikisource
> >> -- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both
> >> Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again,
> >> Commons much less than Wiktionary).
> >>
> >
> > Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like Wikipedia;
> > Commons in the same way except it's interproject; Wiktionary in the same
> > way except it's case-sensitive and not about concepts (opr about a
> stricter
> > definition

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
If there is one thing that would be extremely powerful, it would be
combining lexical information with Commons. I presented about this in
Alexandria at Wikimania and, it is still true. It makes sense to allow
people to search for a paard or a cheval or a
حصان.
They would get pictures of a "horse".

This is what we have shown in OmegaWiki, this is functionality that fulfils
a real life need. What we need is searching for pictures in Commons.

When there is lexical information in a language about a subject and, there
is no Wikipedia article, we can point to the articles in another language.
This can be a language we know the user knows 

As far as I am concerned, adding interwiki links to all the other projects
is nice. It needs to be done but the added functionality is minimal.

The real challenge for Wikidata is opening up data in multiple languages.
THAT is what you need lexical data for. Lexical data can be found in
Wiktionary and in OmegaWiki. What you can find in OmegaWiki is the proof of
the pudding; this is not pie in the sky. It is feasible, it has been done.
It can be done again.
Thanks,
 GerardM


On 11 March 2013 15:16, Federico Leva (Nemo)  wrote:

> Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52:
>
>  There is currently a number of things going on re the future of
>> Wiktionary.
>>
>> There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could
>> potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again,
>> structured data is often rather easy to transform):
>> 
>> >
>>
>> There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary,
>> which I consider a potentially smarter first step:
>>
>> <
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_**
>> Wikisource_strategic_vision
>>
>>>
>>>
> That's Wikisource. :)
>
>
>
>> There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself:
>>
>> 
>> >
>>
>> And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this
>> direction.
>>
>> Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia
>> and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource
>> -- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both
>> Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again,
>> Commons much less than Wiktionary).
>>
>
> Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like Wikipedia;
> Commons in the same way except it's interproject; Wiktionary in the same
> way except it's case-sensitive and not about concepts (opr about a stricter
> definition of concept); Wikisource in a completely different way;
> Wikibooks, Wikinews and Wikiversity I'm not sure.
> As for phase II, it's another story. Wikisource and Commons would benefit
> a lot from it; for Wiktionary it could be a revolution; for Wikispecies
> idem but with less effort (?); Wikiquote would become
>
>
>  I would appreciate a discussion with
>> the Wiktionary-Communities, and also to make them more aware of the
>> OmegaWiki proposal, the potential of Wikidata for Wiktionary, etc. Just to
>> give a comparison: it took a few months to write the original Wikidata
>> proposal, and it was up for discussion for several months before it was
>> decided and acted upon. I would strongly advise to again choose slow and
>> careful planning over hastened decisions.
>>
>
> It's impossible to plan or discuss anything without knowing what matters.
>
> Nemo
>
>
> __**_
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org 
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?

[Denny Vrandečić]

Sorry about the wrong link, I meant this IEG proposal:



but as far as I can tell, this one didn't make it into round 1 (pity,
something like that would have made sense, but I understand that the
proposal was obviously not detailed enough. Whatever.)

I fully agree with Andrea and Nemo that some use cases would be very easy
to implement, especially linking between the projects. Commons and
Wiktionary though are very different and require more thought:

Commons:
* easy goals: link to appropriate items for some of the pages in Commons,
use data from Wikidata in the creator namespace and similar
* more engaging: add metadata to the media files in Commons itself and link
them to each other and to Wikidata

Wiktionary:
* easy goals: none. The conceptualization of Wiktionary simply is not a
direct fit to the conceptualization in Wikipedia and Wikidata.
We need to figure out how they work together. Maybe this page is a good
start, and maybe we should collect the ideas there.


>

I mean, OmegaWiki has been around for a while, and they learned many,
extremely valuable lessons. A lot of work has went into it, and it would be
a shame not to build on its experiences and lessons. But I would like to
ask the question whether it is the right software or not, even though it is
a painful question. But please be reminded that I have spent many years in
the development of Semantic MediaWiki, with the one goal to have it
switched on the Wikipedias -- and then to come to the conclusion to *not*
use the software as is, and start from scratch.

We need a discussion on Wiktionary, and how it can evolve, and if it even
should. And I do not think that a cross-mailing list discussion like the
current one is the right place, and I do not even know where the right
place is.

So, first question: where should this discussion take place?

Cheers,
Denny





2013/3/11 Federico Leva (Nemo) 

> Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52:
>
>  There is currently a number of things going on re the future of
>> Wiktionary.
>>
>> There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could
>> potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again,
>> structured data is often rather easy to transform):
>> 
>> >
>>
>> There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary,
>> which I consider a potentially smarter first step:
>>
>> <
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_**
>> Wikisource_strategic_vision
>>
>>>
>>>
> That's Wikisource. :)
>
>
>
>> There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself:
>>
>> 
>> >
>>
>> And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this
>> direction.
>>
>> Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia
>> and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource
>> -- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both
>> Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again,
>> Commons much less than Wiktionary).
>>
>
> Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like Wikipedia;
> Commons in the same way except it's interproject; Wiktionary in the same
> way except it's case-sensitive and not about concepts (opr about a stricter
> definition of concept); Wikisource in a completely different way;
> Wikibooks, Wikinews and Wikiversity I'm not sure.
> As for phase II, it's another story. Wikisource and Commons would benefit
> a lot from it; for Wiktionary it could be a revolution; for Wikispecies
> idem but with less effort (?); Wikiquote would become
>
>
>  I would appreciate a discussion with
>> the Wiktionary-Communities, and also to make them more aware of the
>> OmegaWiki proposal, the potential of Wikidata for Wiktionary, etc. Just to
>> give a comparison: it took a few months to write the original Wikidata
>> proposal, and it was up for discussion for several months before it was
>> decided and acted upon. I would strongly advise to again choose slow and
>> careful planning over hastened decisions.
>>
>
> It's impossible to plan or discuss anything without knowing what matters.
>
> Nemo
>



-- 
Project director Wikidata
Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
Körperschaften I Berlin, S

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?

[Andrea Zanni]

Hi Denny,
as Nemo pointed out, that grant is for Wikisource :-)
http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_**
Wikisource_strategic_vision

We spoke about that briefly in the Office hours:
one of the main thing Wikidata could do, I think,
is to centralize cross-wiki links, the very same way it centralized
interlinks.
I don't know how difficult could it be, but I sense this would be a
breakthrough for all sister projects.
We could review the Sister template, and make cross-wiki navigation much
more easy and useful.

Aubrey





On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:

> Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52:
>
>  There is currently a number of things going on re the future of
>> Wiktionary.
>>
>> There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could
>> potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again,
>> structured data is often rather easy to transform):
>> 
>> >
>>
>> There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary,
>> which I consider a potentially smarter first step:
>>
>> <
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/**wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_**
>> Wikisource_strategic_vision
>>
>>>
>>>
> That's Wikisource. :)
>
>
>
>> There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself:
>>
>> 
>> >
>>
>> And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this
>> direction.
>>
>> Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia
>> and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource
>> -- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both
>> Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again,
>> Commons much less than Wiktionary).
>>
>
> Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like Wikipedia;
> Commons in the same way except it's interproject; Wiktionary in the same
> way except it's case-sensitive and not about concepts (opr about a stricter
> definition of concept); Wikisource in a completely different way;
> Wikibooks, Wikinews and Wikiversity I'm not sure.
> As for phase II, it's another story. Wikisource and Commons would benefit
> a lot from it; for Wiktionary it could be a revolution; for Wikispecies
> idem but with less effort (?); Wikiquote would become
>
>
>  I would appreciate a discussion with
>> the Wiktionary-Communities, and also to make them more aware of the
>> OmegaWiki proposal, the potential of Wikidata for Wiktionary, etc. Just to
>> give a comparison: it took a few months to write the original Wikidata
>> proposal, and it was up for discussion for several months before it was
>> decided and acted upon. I would strongly advise to again choose slow and
>> careful planning over hastened decisions.
>>
>
> It's impossible to plan or discuss anything without knowing what matters.
>
> Nemo
>
>
> __**_
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org 
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Denny Vrandečić, 11/03/2013 14:52:

There is currently a number of things going on re the future of Wiktionary.

There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could
potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again,
structured data is often rather easy to transform):


There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary,
which I consider a potentially smarter first step:

<
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision




That's Wikisource. :)



There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself:



And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this direction.

Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia
and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource
-- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both
Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again,
Commons much less than Wiktionary).


Actually Wikiquote and Wikivoyage use interwikis exactly like Wikipedia; 
Commons in the same way except it's interproject; Wiktionary in the same 
way except it's case-sensitive and not about concepts (opr about a 
stricter definition of concept); Wikisource in a completely different 
way; Wikibooks, Wikinews and Wikiversity I'm not sure.
As for phase II, it's another story. Wikisource and Commons would 
benefit a lot from it; for Wiktionary it could be a revolution; for 
Wikispecies idem but with less effort (?); Wikiquote would become



I would appreciate a discussion with
the Wiktionary-Communities, and also to make them more aware of the
OmegaWiki proposal, the potential of Wikidata for Wiktionary, etc. Just to
give a comparison: it took a few months to write the original Wikidata
proposal, and it was up for discussion for several months before it was
decided and acted upon. I would strongly advise to again choose slow and
careful planning over hastened decisions.


It's impossible to plan or discuss anything without knowing what matters.

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Are there plans for interactions between wikidata and wiktionaries ?

[Denny Vrandečić]

There is currently a number of things going on re the future of Wiktionary.

There is, for example, the suggestion to adopt OmegaWiki, which could
potentially complicate a Wikibase-Solution in the future (but then again,
structured data is often rather easy to transform):


There is this grant proposal for elaborating the future of Wiktionary,
which I consider a potentially smarter first step:

<
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/Elaborate_Wikisource_strategic_vision
>

There's this discussion on Wikdiata itself:



And I know that Daniel K. is very interested in working into this direction.

Personally, I regard Wiktionary as the third priority, following Wikipedia
and Commons. A lot of the other projects -- like Wikivoyage or Wikisource
-- can be served with only small changes to Wikidata as it is, but both
Commons and Wiktionary would require a bit of thought (and here again,
Commons much less than Wiktionary). I would appreciate a discussion with
the Wiktionary-Communities, and also to make them more aware of the
OmegaWiki proposal, the potential of Wikidata for Wiktionary, etc. Just to
give a comparison: it took a few months to write the original Wikidata
proposal, and it was up for discussion for several months before it was
decided and acted upon. I would strongly advise to again choose slow and
careful planning over hastened decisions.

Cheers,
Denny






2013/3/9 Mathieu Stumpf 

> Hello,
>
> First, congratulation for all the already achieved great work on the
> wikidata project.
>
> Now I would be interested to know more about future development,
> especially on interactions with wiktionaries.
>
> I think wikidata could help to improve wiktionaries drastically, by
> unifying not only interlangs links, but also definitions and
> translations.
>
> More accurately what I mean is that currently you often have, attached
> to one wiki article you have usually several definitions for each
> language where the word is used. But often when I seek a non-french word
> in the french wiktionary, looking at the native wiktionary will bring
> more definition than what you can find on the french article.
>
> I saw that on the english wiktionary, the interface added a "quick add"
> feature, which ask user to fill translation for each meaning. That's
> great and I wish it would be added in all chapters. And I think that we
> could add even more "hey, what about translating just this little thing"
> feature across all dictionary by centralizing entries, so that each
> "word" is associated with one or several meaning by language. Then all
> meanings could be redistributed to all wiktionnaries, even when no
> translation is available for a given meaning in the local chapter. In
> this cas we could have an information box that would say "this word have
> an other meaning which wasn't yet translated in ${local_language}, if
> you one of the language in which a translation is available, please help
> us to improve the wiktionary".
>
> What do think about such a project, could it work with wikidata?
>
> kind regards,
> mathieu
>
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Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Manuel Schneider]

מצטער, אני לא מדבר עברית.

מנואל

Am 11.03.2013 14:36, schrieb Itzik Edri:
> כתב מעיתון מוביל מבקש לדבר עם מישהו על בן הטבע.
> 
> מישהו מעוניין?
-- 
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch

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[Wikimedia-l] בקשה למרואיין

[Itzik Edri]

כתב מעיתון מוביל מבקש לדבר עם מישהו על בן הטבע.

מישהו מעוניין?


-- Forwarded message --

To: it...@wikimedia.org.il


הי איציק, בהמשך לשיחתנו, אני מעוניין לדבר עם עורך שהיה שם מימיה הראשונים של
ויקיפדיה העברית, ומכיר מקרוב את יהודה בלו, שערך בעבר תחת השם בן הטבע לפני
שהושעה ונחסם. ברצוני לשמוע את הסיפור המלא על מה שקרה שם,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiVoyage Association as a thematic organization

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Manuel Schneider, 11/03/2013 08:49:

Am 10.03.2013 20:45, schrieb Federico Leva (Nemo):

Chapters have fees because associations have fees; they should follow
the laws and customs of their geography and a one-size-fits-all global
regulation would be a big mistake. (It might even be illegal in some
jurisdictions for some associative forms.)

I also question your secondary premise that interested people are left
out by fees, and I encourage you to demonstrate this claim.


my point of view is that sometimes it just makes sense to have fees just
as a principal: If you are a serious organisation you need serious
people. Having to pay a (small) fee is a certain "filter" to get people
who are more serious than those who would become a member just because
it sounds fun and is free anyway.


Yes, and a very minimum filter is IMHO needed if you're serious about 
involving people (rather than just inflating statistics) in order to get 
stuff done and be democratic.
A chapter board member wakes up every morning wondering what interests 
or could interest members more, and periodically chases members one by 
one. It's hard enough with hundreds of possibly interested and dozens of 
slightly-engaged people (in a non-huge chapter), it's impossible if the 
signal:noise ratio it too low. Think of the board members' health, their 
job is a hard one. ;-)


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiVoyage Association as a thematic organization

[Manuel Schneider]

Am 10.03.2013 20:45, schrieb Federico Leva (Nemo):
> Chapters have fees because associations have fees; they should follow
> the laws and customs of their geography and a one-size-fits-all global
> regulation would be a big mistake. (It might even be illegal in some
> jurisdictions for some associative forms.)
> 
> I also question your secondary premise that interested people are left
> out by fees, and I encourage you to demonstrate this claim.

my point of view is that sometimes it just makes sense to have fees just
as a principal: If you are a serious organisation you need serious
people. Having to pay a (small) fee is a certain "filter" to get people
who are more serious than those who would become a member just because
it sounds fun and is free anyway.


/Manuel
-- 
Wikimedia CH - Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Lausanne, +41 (21) 34066-22 - www.wikimedia.ch

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