Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Jane Darnell]

Sorry, missed the memo on WiDaR - looks *very* impressive - thanks Gerard!

2014/1/24, Gerard Meijssen :
> Hoi,
> As I recall it there is a category with Russian female painters.. Using
> "Widar" [1] and identifying them as a painter and a female takes all of 5
> minutes..
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
>
> [1] http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html
>
>
> On 24 January 2014 13:40, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>
>> Magnus, you are magical as always, thanks!
>> What an odd list though - who has been working so diligently on
>> Russian paintresses? Whoever you are, great work!
>> meanwhile, sending more virtual kudos to Magnus while I dig into these
>> results,
>> Jane
>>
>> 2014/1/24, Magnus Manske :
>> > A list of female painters with no article on en.wp:
>> >
>> http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html?q=claim%5B106%3A1028181%5D%20and%20claim%5B21%3A6581072%5D%20%20and%20nolink%5Benwiki%5D
>> >
>> > (might take a few seconds to load)
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Magnus
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>> >
>> >> I am not convinced that this is useful (yet). I have been generating
>> >> some red-link lists for the upcoming international edit-a-thon about
>> >> Art & Feminism on February 1st, and I tried out this tool to see if I
>> >> could come with with lists of women artists already in other projects.
>> >> With Reasonator I see 503 female persons and 760 male persons. Not
>> >> very helpful (yet) for generating red-link lists.
>> >>
>> >> 2014/1/23, Risker :
>> >> > On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske > >
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box
>> >> would
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> > the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on
>> wikidata
>> >> >> > information, which they could technically already do, all we'd
>> >> >> > have
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > do
>> >> >> > is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with
>> the
>> >> >> > wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an
>> >> infobox
>> >> >> > with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ...
>> >> >> > low-tech
>> >> >> ;-)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Indeed - but we have to work with what we have.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its
>> >> >> single corresponding infobox, as a pilot?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that
>> >> might
>> >> > be affected, particularly as different projects have very different
>> >> > ideas
>> >> > about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language
>> links
>> >> is
>> >> > acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content,
>> >> > and
>> >> > this proposal is a close parallel.
>> >> >
>> >> > Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is
>> >> > hosted
>> >> > is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it
>> into
>> >> an
>> >> > actual page.
>> >> >
>> >> > Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer
>> >> > to
>> >> > participate would be a first step.
>> >> >
>> >> > Risker/Anne
>> >> > ___
>> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> >> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
>> >> > 
>> >>
>> >> ___
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>> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>> >> 
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
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>> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
As I recall it there is a category with Russian female painters.. Using
"Widar" [1] and identifying them as a painter and a female takes all of 5
minutes..
Thanks,
 GerardM


[1] http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html


On 24 January 2014 13:40, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> Magnus, you are magical as always, thanks!
> What an odd list though - who has been working so diligently on
> Russian paintresses? Whoever you are, great work!
> meanwhile, sending more virtual kudos to Magnus while I dig into these
> results,
> Jane
>
> 2014/1/24, Magnus Manske :
> > A list of female painters with no article on en.wp:
> >
> http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html?q=claim%5B106%3A1028181%5D%20and%20claim%5B21%3A6581072%5D%20%20and%20nolink%5Benwiki%5D
> >
> > (might take a few seconds to load)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Magnus
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
> >
> >> I am not convinced that this is useful (yet). I have been generating
> >> some red-link lists for the upcoming international edit-a-thon about
> >> Art & Feminism on February 1st, and I tried out this tool to see if I
> >> could come with with lists of women artists already in other projects.
> >> With Reasonator I see 503 female persons and 760 male persons. Not
> >> very helpful (yet) for generating red-link lists.
> >>
> >> 2014/1/23, Risker :
> >> > On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett 
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske  >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box
> >> would
> >> >> be
> >> >> > the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on
> wikidata
> >> >> > information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > do
> >> >> > is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with
> the
> >> >> > wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an
> >> infobox
> >> >> > with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ...
> >> >> > low-tech
> >> >> ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >> Indeed - but we have to work with what we have.
> >> >>
> >> >> Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its
> >> >> single corresponding infobox, as a pilot?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that
> >> might
> >> > be affected, particularly as different projects have very different
> >> > ideas
> >> > about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language
> links
> >> is
> >> > acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content,
> >> > and
> >> > this proposal is a close parallel.
> >> >
> >> > Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is
> >> > hosted
> >> > is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it
> into
> >> an
> >> > actual page.
> >> >
> >> > Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer to
> >> > participate would be a first step.
> >> >
> >> > Risker/Anne
> >> > ___
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> >> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > 
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Jane Darnell]

Magnus, you are magical as always, thanks!
What an odd list though - who has been working so diligently on
Russian paintresses? Whoever you are, great work!
meanwhile, sending more virtual kudos to Magnus while I dig into these results,
Jane

2014/1/24, Magnus Manske :
> A list of female painters with no article on en.wp:
> http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html?q=claim%5B106%3A1028181%5D%20and%20claim%5B21%3A6581072%5D%20%20and%20nolink%5Benwiki%5D
>
> (might take a few seconds to load)
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:
>
>> I am not convinced that this is useful (yet). I have been generating
>> some red-link lists for the upcoming international edit-a-thon about
>> Art & Feminism on February 1st, and I tried out this tool to see if I
>> could come with with lists of women artists already in other projects.
>> With Reasonator I see 503 female persons and 760 male persons. Not
>> very helpful (yet) for generating red-link lists.
>>
>> 2014/1/23, Risker :
>> > On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske 
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box
>> would
>> >> be
>> >> > the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
>> >> > information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have
>> >> > to
>> >> > do
>> >> > is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
>> >> > wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an
>> infobox
>> >> > with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ...
>> >> > low-tech
>> >> ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Indeed - but we have to work with what we have.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its
>> >> single corresponding infobox, as a pilot?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that
>> might
>> > be affected, particularly as different projects have very different
>> > ideas
>> > about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language links
>> is
>> > acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content,
>> > and
>> > this proposal is a close parallel.
>> >
>> > Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is
>> > hosted
>> > is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it into
>> an
>> > actual page.
>> >
>> > Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer to
>> > participate would be a first step.
>> >
>> > Risker/Anne
>> > ___
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > 
>>
>> ___
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>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>>
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Magnus Manske]

A list of female painters with no article on en.wp:
http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html?q=claim%5B106%3A1028181%5D%20and%20claim%5B21%3A6581072%5D%20%20and%20nolink%5Benwiki%5D

(might take a few seconds to load)

Cheers,
Magnus


On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 8:24 AM, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> I am not convinced that this is useful (yet). I have been generating
> some red-link lists for the upcoming international edit-a-thon about
> Art & Feminism on February 1st, and I tried out this tool to see if I
> could come with with lists of women artists already in other projects.
> With Reasonator I see 503 female persons and 760 male persons. Not
> very helpful (yet) for generating red-link lists.
>
> 2014/1/23, Risker :
> > On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske 
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box
> would
> >> be
> >> > the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
> >> > information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to
> >> > do
> >> > is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
> >> > wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an
> infobox
> >> > with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech
> >> ;-)
> >>
> >> Indeed - but we have to work with what we have.
> >>
> >> Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its
> >> single corresponding infobox, as a pilot?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that
> might
> > be affected, particularly as different projects have very different ideas
> > about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language links
> is
> > acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content, and
> > this proposal is a close parallel.
> >
> > Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is hosted
> > is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it into
> an
> > actual page.
> >
> > Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer to
> > participate would be a first step.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
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>



-- 
undefined
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
You are conflating two tools .. they are still quite distinct..

   - What you refer to is a query tool and IT provides you with the numbers
   you quote.
   - Reasonator provides you with a search functionality and a display
   functionality

So Reasonator gives you something like this [1]
Thanks,
  GerardM

[1] http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?lang=nl&q=3356848

[1]


On 24 January 2014 09:24, Jane Darnell  wrote:

> I am not convinced that this is useful (yet). I have been generating
> some red-link lists for the upcoming international edit-a-thon about
> Art & Feminism on February 1st, and I tried out this tool to see if I
> could come with with lists of women artists already in other projects.
> With Reasonator I see 503 female persons and 760 male persons. Not
> very helpful (yet) for generating red-link lists.
>
> 2014/1/23, Risker :
> > On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske 
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box
> would
> >> be
> >> > the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
> >> > information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to
> >> > do
> >> > is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
> >> > wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an
> infobox
> >> > with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech
> >> ;-)
> >>
> >> Indeed - but we have to work with what we have.
> >>
> >> Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its
> >> single corresponding infobox, as a pilot?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that
> might
> > be affected, particularly as different projects have very different ideas
> > about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language links
> is
> > acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content, and
> > this proposal is a close parallel.
> >
> > Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is hosted
> > is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it into
> an
> > actual page.
> >
> > Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer to
> > participate would be a first step.
> >
> > Risker/Anne
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Jane Darnell]

I am not convinced that this is useful (yet). I have been generating
some red-link lists for the upcoming international edit-a-thon about
Art & Feminism on February 1st, and I tried out this tool to see if I
could come with with lists of women artists already in other projects.
With Reasonator I see 503 female persons and 760 male persons. Not
very helpful (yet) for generating red-link lists.

2014/1/23, Risker :
> On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett  wrote:
>
>> On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would
>> be
>> > the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
>> > information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to
>> > do
>> > is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
>> > wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox
>> > with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech
>> ;-)
>>
>> Indeed - but we have to work with what we have.
>>
>> Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its
>> single corresponding infobox, as a pilot?
>>
>>
>>
>
> I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that might
> be affected, particularly as different projects have very different ideas
> about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language links is
> acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content, and
> this proposal is a close parallel.
>
> Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is hosted
> is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it into an
> actual page.
>
> Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer to
> participate would be a first step.
>
> Risker/Anne
> ___
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> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Risker]

On 23 January 2014 15:42, Andy Mabbett  wrote:

> On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske 
> wrote:
> >
> > I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would
> be
> > the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
> > information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do
> > is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
> > wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox
> > with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech
> ;-)
>
> Indeed - but we have to work with what we have.
>
> Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its
> single corresponding infobox, as a pilot?
>
>
>

I suggest that this discussion should be on the various projects that might
be affected, particularly as different projects have very different ideas
about whether the use of Wikidata for anything more than language links is
acceptable. Many projects do not permit bulk bot creation of content, and
this proposal is a close parallel.

Further, content that isn't editable on the project on which it is hosted
is probably not a very effective way to persuade people to turn it into an
actual page.

Trialing the process on some small projects that actively volunteer to
participate would be a first step.

Risker/Anne
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Andy Mabbett]

On 23 January 2014 15:12, Magnus Manske  wrote:
>
> I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would be
> the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
> information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do
> is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
> wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox
> with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech ;-)

Indeed - but we have to work with what we have.

Perhaps we could concentrate on one very narrow subject, and its
single corresponding infobox, as a pilot?

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,

We can provide information now(ish). We are discussing draft because it is
a likely avenue. It is however very much NOT intended for the English
Wikipedia. If anything it would be much better if we work this out on other
Wikipedias first.

The most benefit from Reasonator will be for the bottom 240 Wikipedias (in
page views or articles). They are most unlikely to provide the information
we take for granted. They do have first and foremost a quantity problem; a
quality problem does not exist when there is nothing to assess. If anything
Wikidata is growing fast. It supports more subjects than any Wikipedia. It
supports more subjects in any language than its Wikipedia. All the time
statements are added that make the Wikidata content more valuable.

Steven, Reasonator allows us to share information we have and do not serve
in any other way with our public. Reasonator is very much developed in an
iterative way. It is not developed by committee but it relies very much on
the feedback we get. We have reported on Reasonator and associated tools
for quite some time now. The bottom line is not that every thing is
perfect. Reasonator is not. It is however getting better all the time. We
are also ready to progress towards the functionality we are discussing.

Steven would you be interested in supporting us in such an adventure ...
remember, WMF aims to share in the sum of all knowledge ... It is one way
to grow both our public and our community, it will teach us much about how
to bring Wikidata content to a public and grow its community that is
already a top 10 WMF community in contributors.
Thanks,
  Gerard


On 23 January 2014 20:45, Steven Walling  wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Daniel Mietchen <
> daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > What about having the Reasonator sit in the Draft namespace, with a
> > link from the search results or the text preloaded for non-existing
> > pages in the main namespace?
> >
> > Daniel
> >
>
> It is still far too early to do this. We still need to resolve a lot of
> open questions around the Draft namespace. We don't advertise drafts on red
> links or search yet, we haven't figured out how to deal with drafts for
> articles that already exist, how to present a proper feed of drafts, and
> lots more. Plus, it's only on English Wikipedia so you're not going to get
> much bang for your buck working on implementing some kind of suggested
> content via Wikidata.
>
> We should put this idea in the list of future possible enhancements at
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Draft_namespace
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Steven Walling]

On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 7:26 AM, Daniel Mietchen <
daniel.mietc...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> What about having the Reasonator sit in the Draft namespace, with a
> link from the search results or the text preloaded for non-existing
> pages in the main namespace?
>
> Daniel
>

It is still far too early to do this. We still need to resolve a lot of
open questions around the Draft namespace. We don't advertise drafts on red
links or search yet, we haven't figured out how to deal with drafts for
articles that already exist, how to present a proper feed of drafts, and
lots more. Plus, it's only on English Wikipedia so you're not going to get
much bang for your buck working on implementing some kind of suggested
content via Wikidata.

We should put this idea in the list of future possible enhancements at
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Draft_namespace
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Martijn Hoekstra]

On Jan 23, 2014 6:42 PM, "Gerard Meijssen" 
wrote:
>
> Hoi,
> Having Reasonator generated content in a "draft" namespace is *NOT* a bad
> idea.
>
>- I do not know enough about the draft namespace.. Is there a way to
>discover that an article exists in Draft ??
>- My personal target for this functionality is very much the smaller
>projects. By using a "draft" environment I am afraid it becomes easily
too
>complicated in these environments.
>- "Red links", are they allowed to point to the draft namespace?
>- How about disambiguation because, Wikidata is very likely to create
>ambiguity ... then again, as there is an "auto describe" function, it
is
>possible to add suffixes like "actor" "politician" etc..
>- Magnus indicated that providing information to templates is well
>possible.  he calls it low tech 
>   - So far we prefer to show a label in stead of  a "Qnumber".
>   - We would *REALLY* like to have a personal fall-back chain of
>   languages based on #babel information..
>   - There is no API to read #Babel yet
>   - Obviously this has implications for caching..
>   - HOWEVER as we share this content with Wikidata and all other
>   projects, it can aggregate in one cache.. do not know if that is
> good or bad
>
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
>

Pointing redlinks to draft seems like a marvelous idea, and pre-populating
them with wikidata even better.

Having an in between "yellow" link for draft content including wikidata
content, and red link for nothing seems to me like an even better idea, but
dependent on how drafts will turn out in practice.

We could do amazing things with this.

> On 23 January 2014 16:26, Daniel Mietchen wrote:
>
> > What about having the Reasonator sit in the Draft namespace, with a
> > link from the search results or the text preloaded for non-existing
> > pages in the main namespace?
> >
> > Daniel
> > --
> >
> >
http://www.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/mietchen-daniel/
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/Publications
> > http://okfn.org
> > http://wikimedia.org
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Magnus Manske
> >  wrote:
> > > Hi Andy,
> > >
> > > I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box
would
> > be
> > > the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
> > > information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have
to do
> > > is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
> > > wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an
infobox
> > > with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech
> > ;-)
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Magnus
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Andy Mabbett <
a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 22 January 2014 08:35, Gerard Meijssen 
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious
> > >> > one is to add a {{Reasonator}} template as a place
> > >> > holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to capture a not
> > >> > found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What
> > >> > I am trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am
> > >> > not indicating how it will be done for sure.
> > >>
> > >> [I'm not on the devs list, so trimmed from the CC]
> > >>
> > >> I would like people to be able to "subst" that template (or have a
big
> > >> button that does the same thing), and have some code draft a stub
> > >> article based on the statements in Wikidata, say:
> > >>
> > >>  "X was a German painter born in [[Munich]] on
> > >>  27 May 1801. He died in [[Berlin]] on 3
> > >>  March 1899"
> > >>
> > >> with formatted references, a reflist template, and a pre-populated
> > >> infobox. It would be delivered in preview state, allowing further
> > >> editing before publication.
> > >>
> > >> A suitably prominent warning would alert editors that they still bear
> > >> responsibility for ensuring that the subject is notable, and the
> > >> article fit for publication, according to local standards. A hidden
> > >> category and/or an edit tag would allow tracking.
> > >>
> > >> Because of the complexity of this task, we could pilot it for one
type
> > >> of subject (say, buildings, or people, or even a subset of one of
> > >> those) in one or two languages.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Andy Mabbett
> > >> @pigsonthewing
> > >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > undefined
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinf

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
Having Reasonator generated content in a "draft" namespace is *NOT* a bad
idea.

   - I do not know enough about the draft namespace.. Is there a way to
   discover that an article exists in Draft ??
   - My personal target for this functionality is very much the smaller
   projects. By using a "draft" environment I am afraid it becomes easily too
   complicated in these environments.
   - "Red links", are they allowed to point to the draft namespace?
   - How about disambiguation because, Wikidata is very likely to create
   ambiguity ... then again, as there is an "auto describe" function, it is
   possible to add suffixes like "actor" "politician" etc..
   - Magnus indicated that providing information to templates is well
   possible.  he calls it low tech 
  - So far we prefer to show a label in stead of  a "Qnumber".
  - We would *REALLY* like to have a personal fall-back chain of
  languages based on #babel information..
  - There is no API to read #Babel yet
  - Obviously this has implications for caching..
  - HOWEVER as we share this content with Wikidata and all other
  projects, it can aggregate in one cache.. do not know if that is
good or bad

Thanks,
 GerardM


On 23 January 2014 16:26, Daniel Mietchen wrote:

> What about having the Reasonator sit in the Draft namespace, with a
> link from the search results or the text preloaded for non-existing
> pages in the main namespace?
>
> Daniel
> --
>
> http://www.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/mietchen-daniel/
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/Publications
> http://okfn.org
> http://wikimedia.org
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Magnus Manske
>  wrote:
> > Hi Andy,
> >
> > I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would
> be
> > the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
> > information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do
> > is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
> > wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox
> > with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech
> ;-)
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Magnus
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Andy Mabbett  >wrote:
> >
> >> On 22 January 2014 08:35, Gerard Meijssen 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious
> >> > one is to add a {{Reasonator}} template as a place
> >> > holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to capture a not
> >> > found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What
> >> > I am trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am
> >> > not indicating how it will be done for sure.
> >>
> >> [I'm not on the devs list, so trimmed from the CC]
> >>
> >> I would like people to be able to "subst" that template (or have a big
> >> button that does the same thing), and have some code draft a stub
> >> article based on the statements in Wikidata, say:
> >>
> >>  "X was a German painter born in [[Munich]] on
> >>  27 May 1801. He died in [[Berlin]] on 3
> >>  March 1899"
> >>
> >> with formatted references, a reflist template, and a pre-populated
> >> infobox. It would be delivered in preview state, allowing further
> >> editing before publication.
> >>
> >> A suitably prominent warning would alert editors that they still bear
> >> responsibility for ensuring that the subject is notable, and the
> >> article fit for publication, according to local standards. A hidden
> >> category and/or an edit tag would allow tracking.
> >>
> >> Because of the complexity of this task, we could pilot it for one type
> >> of subject (say, buildings, or people, or even a subset of one of
> >> those) in one or two languages.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andy Mabbett
> >> @pigsonthewing
> >> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> >> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > undefined
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Daniel Mietchen]

What about having the Reasonator sit in the Draft namespace, with a
link from the search results or the text preloaded for non-existing
pages in the main namespace?

Daniel
--
http://www.naturkundemuseum-berlin.de/en/institution/mitarbeiter/mietchen-daniel/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen/Publications
http://okfn.org
http://wikimedia.org


On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Magnus Manske
 wrote:
> Hi Andy,
>
> I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would be
> the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
> information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do
> is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
> wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox
> with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Magnus
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Andy Mabbett 
> wrote:
>
>> On 22 January 2014 08:35, Gerard Meijssen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious
>> > one is to add a {{Reasonator}} template as a place
>> > holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to capture a not
>> > found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What
>> > I am trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am
>> > not indicating how it will be done for sure.
>>
>> [I'm not on the devs list, so trimmed from the CC]
>>
>> I would like people to be able to "subst" that template (or have a big
>> button that does the same thing), and have some code draft a stub
>> article based on the statements in Wikidata, say:
>>
>>  "X was a German painter born in [[Munich]] on
>>  27 May 1801. He died in [[Berlin]] on 3
>>  March 1899"
>>
>> with formatted references, a reflist template, and a pre-populated
>> infobox. It would be delivered in preview state, allowing further
>> editing before publication.
>>
>> A suitably prominent warning would alert editors that they still bear
>> responsibility for ensuring that the subject is notable, and the
>> article fit for publication, according to local standards. A hidden
>> category and/or an edit tag would allow tracking.
>>
>> Because of the complexity of this task, we could pilot it for one type
>> of subject (say, buildings, or people, or even a subset of one of
>> those) in one or two languages.
>>
>> --
>> Andy Mabbett
>> @pigsonthewing
>> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
>> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>>
>
>
>
> --
> undefined
> ___
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> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Magnus Manske]

Hi Andy,

I thought about that as well. Besides the intro text, the info box would be
the main "attraction"; but if infoboxes were to fall back on wikidata
information, which they could technically already do, all we'd have to do
is add a blank infobox, and it should automatically fill up with the
wikidata information. In light of that, writing code to fill an infobox
with values form wikidata to paste into the article seems ... low-tech ;-)

Cheers,
Magnus


On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Andy Mabbett wrote:

> On 22 January 2014 08:35, Gerard Meijssen 
> wrote:
>
> > There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious
> > one is to add a {{Reasonator}} template as a place
> > holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to capture a not
> > found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What
> > I am trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am
> > not indicating how it will be done for sure.
>
> [I'm not on the devs list, so trimmed from the CC]
>
> I would like people to be able to "subst" that template (or have a big
> button that does the same thing), and have some code draft a stub
> article based on the statements in Wikidata, say:
>
>  "X was a German painter born in [[Munich]] on
>  27 May 1801. He died in [[Berlin]] on 3
>  March 1899"
>
> with formatted references, a reflist template, and a pre-populated
> infobox. It would be delivered in preview state, allowing further
> editing before publication.
>
> A suitably prominent warning would alert editors that they still bear
> responsibility for ensuring that the subject is notable, and the
> article fit for publication, according to local standards. A hidden
> category and/or an edit tag would allow tracking.
>
> Because of the complexity of this task, we could pilot it for one type
> of subject (say, buildings, or people, or even a subset of one of
> those) in one or two languages.
>
> --
> Andy Mabbett
> @pigsonthewing
> http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



-- 
undefined
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Andy Mabbett]

On 22 January 2014 08:35, Gerard Meijssen  wrote:

> There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious
> one is to add a {{Reasonator}} template as a place
> holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to capture a not
> found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What
> I am trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am
> not indicating how it will be done for sure.

[I'm not on the devs list, so trimmed from the CC]

I would like people to be able to "subst" that template (or have a big
button that does the same thing), and have some code draft a stub
article based on the statements in Wikidata, say:

 "X was a German painter born in [[Munich]] on
 27 May 1801. He died in [[Berlin]] on 3
 March 1899"

with formatted references, a reflist template, and a pre-populated
infobox. It would be delivered in preview state, allowing further
editing before publication.

A suitably prominent warning would alert editors that they still bear
responsibility for ensuring that the subject is notable, and the
article fit for publication, according to local standards. A hidden
category and/or an edit tag would allow tracking.

Because of the complexity of this task, we could pilot it for one type
of subject (say, buildings, or people, or even a subset of one of
those) in one or two languages.

-- 
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,

The mail I send is meant to be a warning in advance. If you are interested
in the "Reasonator", it is in continuous development and information is
provided on an almost daily basis. When you have read it, you may
understand the potential it has. It will help you understand why it can
have a place as a stand in for an article in a Wikipedia and also why it
can beat the quality of information of most stubs.

There are many ways to skin a cat. The most obvious one is to add a
{{Reasonator}} template as a place holder in a Wikipedia. Another is to
capture a not found or a red link and insert Reasonator info. What I am
trying to do is to give a sense of direction. I am not indicating how it
will be done for sure.

When the English Wikipedia community makes a decision, it is what the
English Wikipedia community thinks best for itself. No problem in that. It
would only become a problem when it is inferred to be a decision for every
Wikipedia community.

The he Media Viewer is very similar to the situation at hand with Wikidata
and Reasonator. Wikidata data can be used on every Wikipedia and to some
extend this is done on many if not most Wikipedias (including en.wp). Like
with Media, it can be confusing that the information is actually not on
that local project. It is also not that obvious that Wikidata is not
necessarily interested in the policies that are dreamt up locally. The
alternative is NOT having central storage of images or NOT having central
data storage. Both are not really an option.

I like the fact that you come up with some suggestions however, your
proposal does not consider disambiguation. At this stage we are improving
the information that is provided by Reasonator; the latest iteration has
de-cluttered complicated pages like the one for Shakespeare a lot while
adding to the information that is made available.

Quality information is provided by the Reasonator, the biggest problem I
see is that we do not have info-boxes of high quality available when an
article is being written.
Thanks,
   GerardM


On 21 January 2014 20:07, Ryan Kaldari  wrote:

> Can you explain how such a {{Reasonator}} template would actually work. You
> say that it would be a stand-in until the article was actually written, but
> how would it know when the article is actually written? Is there a way to
> access the target article's state via Lua?
>
> From a community perspective, linking to external sites from body content
> is normally frowned upon (on en.wiki at least), even if the link is to a
> sister project. There are two main reasons for this:
> 1. It discourages the creation of new articles via redlinks
> 2. It can be confusing for readers to be sent to other sites while surfing
> Wikipedia content. (This is one of reasons why the WMF Multimedia team has
> been developing the Media Viewer.)
>
> My suggestion would be to leave the redlinks intact, but to provide a
> pop-up when hovering over the redlinks (similar to Navigation pop-ups (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups)). This
> pop-up could provide a small set of core data (via an ajax request) and
> also a link to the full Reasonator page. I would probably implement this as
> a gadget first and do a few design iterations based on user-feedback before
> proposing it as something for readers.
>
> Ryan Kaldari
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Magnus Manske <
> magnusman...@googlemail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > On a technical note, Reasonator is pure JavaScript, so should be easily
> > portable, even to a Wikipedia:Reasonator.js page (or several pages, with
> > support JS).
> >
> > git here:
> > https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/reasonator
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Lane  wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hoi,
> > > >
> > > > At this moment Wikipedia "red links" provide no information
> whatsoever.
> > > > This is not cool.
> > > >
> > > > In Wikidata we often have labels for the missing (=red link)
> articles.
> > We
> > > > can and do provide information from Wikidata in a reasonable way that
> > is
> > > > informative in the "Reasonator". We also provide additional search
> > > > information on many Wikipedias.
> > > >
> > > > In the Reasonator we have now implemented "red lines" [1]. They
> > indicate
> > > > when a label does not exist in the primary language that is in use.
> > > >
> > > > What we are considering is creating a template {{Reasonator}} that
> will
> > > > present information based on what is available in Wikidata. Such a
> > > template
> > > > would be a stand in until an article is actually written. What we
> would
> > > > provide is information that is presented in the same way as we
> provide
> > it
> > > > as this moment in time [2]
> > > >
> > > > This may open up a box of worms; Reasonator is NOT using any caching.
> > > There
> > > > may be lots of other reasons why you might think this proposal is
> evil.
> > > All

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Ryan Kaldari]

Can you explain how such a {{Reasonator}} template would actually work. You
say that it would be a stand-in until the article was actually written, but
how would it know when the article is actually written? Is there a way to
access the target article's state via Lua?

From a community perspective, linking to external sites from body content
is normally frowned upon (on en.wiki at least), even if the link is to a
sister project. There are two main reasons for this:
1. It discourages the creation of new articles via redlinks
2. It can be confusing for readers to be sent to other sites while surfing
Wikipedia content. (This is one of reasons why the WMF Multimedia team has
been developing the Media Viewer.)

My suggestion would be to leave the redlinks intact, but to provide a
pop-up when hovering over the redlinks (similar to Navigation pop-ups (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups)). This
pop-up could provide a small set of core data (via an ajax request) and
also a link to the full Reasonator page. I would probably implement this as
a gadget first and do a few design iterations based on user-feedback before
proposing it as something for readers.

Ryan Kaldari


On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Magnus Manske  wrote:

> On a technical note, Reasonator is pure JavaScript, so should be easily
> portable, even to a Wikipedia:Reasonator.js page (or several pages, with
> support JS).
>
> git here:
> https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/reasonator
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Lane  wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > >
> > > At this moment Wikipedia "red links" provide no information whatsoever.
> > > This is not cool.
> > >
> > > In Wikidata we often have labels for the missing (=red link) articles.
> We
> > > can and do provide information from Wikidata in a reasonable way that
> is
> > > informative in the "Reasonator". We also provide additional search
> > > information on many Wikipedias.
> > >
> > > In the Reasonator we have now implemented "red lines" [1]. They
> indicate
> > > when a label does not exist in the primary language that is in use.
> > >
> > > What we are considering is creating a template {{Reasonator}} that will
> > > present information based on what is available in Wikidata. Such a
> > template
> > > would be a stand in until an article is actually written. What we would
> > > provide is information that is presented in the same way as we provide
> it
> > > as this moment in time [2]
> > >
> > > This may open up a box of worms; Reasonator is NOT using any caching.
> > There
> > > may be lots of other reasons why you might think this proposal is evil.
> > All
> > > the evil that is technical has some merit but, you have to consider
> that
> > > the other side of the equation is that we are not "sharing in the sum
> of
> > > all knowledge" even when we have much of the missing requested
> > information
> > > available to us.
> > >
> > > One saving (technical) grace, Reasonator loads round about as quickly
> as
> > > WIkidata does.
> > >
> > > As this is advance warning, I hope that you can help with the issues
> that
> > > will come about. I hope that you will consider the impact this will
> have
> > on
> > > our traffic and measure to what extend it grows our data.
> > >
> > > The Reasonator pages will not show up prettily on mobile phones .. so
> > does
> > > Wikidata by the way. It does not consider Wikipedia zero. There may be
> > more
> > > issues that may require attention. But again, it beats not serving the
> > > information that we have to those that are requesting it.
> > >
> >
> > I have a strong feeling you're going to bring labs to its knees.
> >
> > Sending editors to labs is one thing, but you're proposing sending
> readers
> > to labs, to a service that isn't cached.
> >
> > If reasonator is something we want to support for something like this,
> > maybe we should consider turning it into a production service?
> >
> > - Ryan
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
Given that Reasonator requests services through Javascript, it will likely
piggy back on the Wikidata infrastructure. As caching is as far as I know
not implemented on Wikidata, it will benefit everyone when caching for
Wikidata gets on the WMF-Ops agenda.

Until now Wikidata is considered to be irrelevant from an end-user / page
view perspective [1]. This is obviously no longer true.

Again, our aim is to share in the sum of all knowledge. Wikidata has
information that is ours to share. It is our prime objective to ensure that
this is done, it is our challenge to do it in an optimal fashion.
Thanks,
  GerardM

[1] http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikispecial/EN/TablesWikipediaWIKIDATA.htm


On 21 January 2014 18:13, Ryan Lane  wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> >
> > At this moment Wikipedia "red links" provide no information whatsoever.
> > This is not cool.
> >
> > In Wikidata we often have labels for the missing (=red link) articles. We
> > can and do provide information from Wikidata in a reasonable way that is
> > informative in the "Reasonator". We also provide additional search
> > information on many Wikipedias.
> >
> > In the Reasonator we have now implemented "red lines" [1]. They indicate
> > when a label does not exist in the primary language that is in use.
> >
> > What we are considering is creating a template {{Reasonator}} that will
> > present information based on what is available in Wikidata. Such a
> template
> > would be a stand in until an article is actually written. What we would
> > provide is information that is presented in the same way as we provide it
> > as this moment in time [2]
> >
> > This may open up a box of worms; Reasonator is NOT using any caching.
> There
> > may be lots of other reasons why you might think this proposal is evil.
> All
> > the evil that is technical has some merit but, you have to consider that
> > the other side of the equation is that we are not "sharing in the sum of
> > all knowledge" even when we have much of the missing requested
> information
> > available to us.
> >
> > One saving (technical) grace, Reasonator loads round about as quickly as
> > WIkidata does.
> >
> > As this is advance warning, I hope that you can help with the issues that
> > will come about. I hope that you will consider the impact this will have
> on
> > our traffic and measure to what extend it grows our data.
> >
> > The Reasonator pages will not show up prettily on mobile phones .. so
> does
> > Wikidata by the way. It does not consider Wikipedia zero. There may be
> more
> > issues that may require attention. But again, it beats not serving the
> > information that we have to those that are requesting it.
> >
>
> I have a strong feeling you're going to bring labs to its knees.
>
> Sending editors to labs is one thing, but you're proposing sending readers
> to labs, to a service that isn't cached.
>
> If reasonator is something we want to support for something like this,
> maybe we should consider turning it into a production service?
>
> - Ryan
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Magnus Manske]

On a technical note, Reasonator is pure JavaScript, so should be easily
portable, even to a Wikipedia:Reasonator.js page (or several pages, with
support JS).

git here:
https://bitbucket.org/magnusmanske/reasonator


On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Ryan Lane  wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
> wrote:
>
> > Hoi,
> >
> > At this moment Wikipedia "red links" provide no information whatsoever.
> > This is not cool.
> >
> > In Wikidata we often have labels for the missing (=red link) articles. We
> > can and do provide information from Wikidata in a reasonable way that is
> > informative in the "Reasonator". We also provide additional search
> > information on many Wikipedias.
> >
> > In the Reasonator we have now implemented "red lines" [1]. They indicate
> > when a label does not exist in the primary language that is in use.
> >
> > What we are considering is creating a template {{Reasonator}} that will
> > present information based on what is available in Wikidata. Such a
> template
> > would be a stand in until an article is actually written. What we would
> > provide is information that is presented in the same way as we provide it
> > as this moment in time [2]
> >
> > This may open up a box of worms; Reasonator is NOT using any caching.
> There
> > may be lots of other reasons why you might think this proposal is evil.
> All
> > the evil that is technical has some merit but, you have to consider that
> > the other side of the equation is that we are not "sharing in the sum of
> > all knowledge" even when we have much of the missing requested
> information
> > available to us.
> >
> > One saving (technical) grace, Reasonator loads round about as quickly as
> > WIkidata does.
> >
> > As this is advance warning, I hope that you can help with the issues that
> > will come about. I hope that you will consider the impact this will have
> on
> > our traffic and measure to what extend it grows our data.
> >
> > The Reasonator pages will not show up prettily on mobile phones .. so
> does
> > Wikidata by the way. It does not consider Wikipedia zero. There may be
> more
> > issues that may require attention. But again, it beats not serving the
> > information that we have to those that are requesting it.
> >
>
> I have a strong feeling you're going to bring labs to its knees.
>
> Sending editors to labs is one thing, but you're proposing sending readers
> to labs, to a service that isn't cached.
>
> If reasonator is something we want to support for something like this,
> maybe we should consider turning it into a production service?
>
> - Ryan
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikitech-l] Reasonator use in Wikipedias

[Ryan Lane]

On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen
wrote:

> Hoi,
>
> At this moment Wikipedia "red links" provide no information whatsoever.
> This is not cool.
>
> In Wikidata we often have labels for the missing (=red link) articles. We
> can and do provide information from Wikidata in a reasonable way that is
> informative in the "Reasonator". We also provide additional search
> information on many Wikipedias.
>
> In the Reasonator we have now implemented "red lines" [1]. They indicate
> when a label does not exist in the primary language that is in use.
>
> What we are considering is creating a template {{Reasonator}} that will
> present information based on what is available in Wikidata. Such a template
> would be a stand in until an article is actually written. What we would
> provide is information that is presented in the same way as we provide it
> as this moment in time [2]
>
> This may open up a box of worms; Reasonator is NOT using any caching. There
> may be lots of other reasons why you might think this proposal is evil. All
> the evil that is technical has some merit but, you have to consider that
> the other side of the equation is that we are not "sharing in the sum of
> all knowledge" even when we have much of the missing requested information
> available to us.
>
> One saving (technical) grace, Reasonator loads round about as quickly as
> WIkidata does.
>
> As this is advance warning, I hope that you can help with the issues that
> will come about. I hope that you will consider the impact this will have on
> our traffic and measure to what extend it grows our data.
>
> The Reasonator pages will not show up prettily on mobile phones .. so does
> Wikidata by the way. It does not consider Wikipedia zero. There may be more
> issues that may require attention. But again, it beats not serving the
> information that we have to those that are requesting it.
>

I have a strong feeling you're going to bring labs to its knees.

Sending editors to labs is one thing, but you're proposing sending readers
to labs, to a service that isn't cached.

If reasonator is something we want to support for something like this,
maybe we should consider turning it into a production service?

- Ryan
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