Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Hi Andrea, Do you use the education extension to import usernames to WikiMetrics? And what seems to be the issue with WikiMetrics results? Would you please have a look at these learning patterns on using Wikimetris: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimetrics_learning_patterns And this one on using the education extension: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/Using_the_education_extension They may have the answers to your questions. If your problem persists, please let me know. I hope that helps! On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Andrea Zanni zanni.andre...@gmail.com wrote: Also related... Maybe I am not aware of an existing tool, but: often, tutors need to control the wikiwork of some users. This happens when we make and editathon, a course, a lesson. Wikimetrics was supposed to help us with this, but it has weird metrics, and nobody understands them. Aubrey On Tuesday, February 3, 2015, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 February 2015 at 10:23, Fabian Tompsett fabian.tomps...@wikimedia.org.uk javascript:; wrote: We need an extension where users easily can form groups (namespace Groups: or something, used by an extension), where they easily can see the recent changes of edits of group members only Not precisely this, but related... Is there any plan to have folders in a watchlist, and then the ability to make a specific folder visible (a.k.a. shared) to others? Not only would this make it easier for people with very large watchlists to manage their work more easily, but this would also mean that a group (e.g. wikiproject, edithathon participants, classroom...) could easily subscribe to a shared watchlist folder. This would make it easy for them to follow each other's edits. - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's draft pages. - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the articles within the scope of the event. - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related articles for members to more easily monitor. - probably many other use-cases that might emerge... Has this been discussed/suggested before? -Liam ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; ?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Samir Elsharbaty, Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharb...@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Also related... Maybe I am not aware of an existing tool, but: often, tutors need to control the wikiwork of some users. This happens when we make and editathon, a course, a lesson. Wikimetrics was supposed to help us with this, but it has weird metrics, and nobody understands them. Aubrey On Tuesday, February 3, 2015, Liam Wyatt liamwy...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 February 2015 at 10:23, Fabian Tompsett fabian.tomps...@wikimedia.org.uk javascript:; wrote: We need an extension where users easily can form groups (namespace Groups: or something, used by an extension), where they easily can see the recent changes of edits of group members only Not precisely this, but related... Is there any plan to have folders in a watchlist, and then the ability to make a specific folder visible (a.k.a. shared) to others? Not only would this make it easier for people with very large watchlists to manage their work more easily, but this would also mean that a group (e.g. wikiproject, edithathon participants, classroom...) could easily subscribe to a shared watchlist folder. This would make it easy for them to follow each other's edits. - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's draft pages. - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the articles within the scope of the event. - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related articles for members to more easily monitor. - probably many other use-cases that might emerge... Has this been discussed/suggested before? -Liam ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; ?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Dear Pine, Thanks for your question. I think that the idea of merging Outreach into Meta would probably benefit from some discussion among the users of both wikis, to see if such a change would work for them. :) For instance, the Meta community would need to be comfortable with folding in functionaries from Outreach -- just as Outreach functionaries would need to be comfortable with Meta functionaries operating in Outreach space -- unless there is some technical way to restrict administrators to only those projects for which they were chosen. Obviously, either way, if such a merger happened, we would need to maintain many redirects, since printed documents https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Brochures refer to specific pages within Outreach -- and we would have to make sure to maintain those redirects if pages on Meta were moved. I don't know all of the history behind why Outreach and Meta are separate, since it predates my work in the movement. What matters to me, personally, is best coordination of the work, wherever that happens. Your thoughts on this are welcome over at the Outreach wiki village pump. Kind regards, Anna -- Anna Koval, M.Ed. Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 x6729 ako...@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Anna, In the long run I think it would be beneficial to move at least some of the content of Outreach into LPL where it would be easier to search. Perhaps you can enlighten me about the purpose of keeping Outreach separate from Meta. I think the idea is that Outreach is easier to navigate for outsiders than Meta is. However we could redirect outreach.wikimedia.org to a namespace on Meta that is similar to the Grants namespace with a restricted search option. Particularly after the recent LPL upgrades, I think it would be good to consider fully merging Outreach into Meta. What do you think? Pine On Feb 4, 2015 6:35 AM, Anna Koval ako...@wikimedia.org wrote: Dear Nemo, There is, of course, other documentation on mediawiki already. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Education_Program https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Education_Program However, having additional how-to type pages in the help namespace is a great idea. I didn't realize that there were not already any help pages on mediawiki about the education program extension. Thank you for pointing that out. We can plan to add some. It is my understanding that Meta and Outreach wikis actually are appropriate places to share information about the this extension in these contexts. On Meta wiki, that page is part of the Learning Pattern Library, and as such, it explains a problem that the extension solves. On Outreach wiki, that page provides information for education program volunteers who might be wish to more learn about it in order to work with their communities to enable it on their projects. It is true that much of the information, on Outreach, in particular, is somewhat technical in nature, and somewhat duplicative of information that is available on mediawiki.org, but that is that something I am working on updating and improving. I welcome your input on that process; we could discuss it on the talk page. Kind regards, Anna -- Anna Koval, M.Ed. Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 x6729 ako...@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Samir Elsharbaty, 04/02/2015 03:08: It seems that the extension already covers most of what was suggested here: - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's draft pages. - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the articles within the scope of the event. - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related articles for members to more easily monitor. - probably many other use-cases that might emerge... Ah, does it. My understanding is that this has been considered feature bloat, to be removed in a rewrite of the extension. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor_campaigns If it works for you, however, it can hopefully scale. I suggest that you comment on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Gather to suggest they split the shared watchlist feature out of the Education extension If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same features? Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of the Ed extension: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/ Using_the_education_extension
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Hi Anna, I have made a more detailed proposal at https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:Village_pump#Proposal:_merge_the_Outreach_wiki_into_the_Meta_wiki. Please comment. Thanks! Pine *This is an Encyclopedia* https://www.wikipedia.org/ *One gateway to the wide garden of knowledge, where lies The deep rock of our past, in which we must delve The well of our future,The clear water we must leave untainted for those who come after us,The fertile earth, in which truth may grow in bright places, tended by many hands,And the broad fall of sunshine, warming our first steps toward knowing how much we do not know.* *—Catherine Munro* On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 2:43 PM, Anna Koval ako...@wikimedia.org wrote: Dear Pine, Thanks for your question. I think that the idea of merging Outreach into Meta would probably benefit from some discussion among the users of both wikis, to see if such a change would work for them. :) For instance, the Meta community would need to be comfortable with folding in functionaries from Outreach -- just as Outreach functionaries would need to be comfortable with Meta functionaries operating in Outreach space -- unless there is some technical way to restrict administrators to only those projects for which they were chosen. Obviously, either way, if such a merger happened, we would need to maintain many redirects, since printed documents https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Brochures refer to specific pages within Outreach -- and we would have to make sure to maintain those redirects if pages on Meta were moved. I don't know all of the history behind why Outreach and Meta are separate, since it predates my work in the movement. What matters to me, personally, is best coordination of the work, wherever that happens. Your thoughts on this are welcome over at the Outreach wiki village pump. Kind regards, Anna -- Anna Koval, M.Ed. Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 x6729 ako...@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Anna, In the long run I think it would be beneficial to move at least some of the content of Outreach into LPL where it would be easier to search. Perhaps you can enlighten me about the purpose of keeping Outreach separate from Meta. I think the idea is that Outreach is easier to navigate for outsiders than Meta is. However we could redirect outreach.wikimedia.org to a namespace on Meta that is similar to the Grants namespace with a restricted search option. Particularly after the recent LPL upgrades, I think it would be good to consider fully merging Outreach into Meta. What do you think? Pine On Feb 4, 2015 6:35 AM, Anna Koval ako...@wikimedia.org wrote: Dear Nemo, There is, of course, other documentation on mediawiki already. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Education_Program https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Education_Program However, having additional how-to type pages in the help namespace is a great idea. I didn't realize that there were not already any help pages on mediawiki about the education program extension. Thank you for pointing that out. We can plan to add some. It is my understanding that Meta and Outreach wikis actually are appropriate places to share information about the this extension in these contexts. On Meta wiki, that page is part of the Learning Pattern Library, and as such, it explains a problem that the extension solves. On Outreach wiki, that page provides information for education program volunteers who might be wish to more learn about it in order to work with their communities to enable it on their projects. It is true that much of the information, on Outreach, in particular, is somewhat technical in nature, and somewhat duplicative of information that is available on mediawiki.org, but that is that something I am working on updating and improving. I welcome your input on that process; we could discuss it on the talk page. Kind regards, Anna -- Anna Koval, M.Ed. Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 x6729 ako...@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Samir Elsharbaty, 04/02/2015 03:08: It seems that the extension already covers most of what was suggested here: - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's draft pages. - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the articles within the scope of the event. - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related articles for members to more easily monitor. - probably many other use-cases that might
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Hi Anna, In the long run I think it would be beneficial to move at least some of the content of Outreach into LPL where it would be easier to search. Perhaps you can enlighten me about the purpose of keeping Outreach separate from Meta. I think the idea is that Outreach is easier to navigate for outsiders than Meta is. However we could redirect outreach.wikimedia.org to a namespace on Meta that is similar to the Grants namespace with a restricted search option. Particularly after the recent LPL upgrades, I think it would be good to consider fully merging Outreach into Meta. What do you think? Pine On Feb 4, 2015 6:35 AM, Anna Koval ako...@wikimedia.org wrote: Dear Nemo, There is, of course, other documentation on mediawiki already. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Education_Program https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Education_Program However, having additional how-to type pages in the help namespace is a great idea. I didn't realize that there were not already any help pages on mediawiki about the education program extension. Thank you for pointing that out. We can plan to add some. It is my understanding that Meta and Outreach wikis actually are appropriate places to share information about the this extension in these contexts. On Meta wiki, that page is part of the Learning Pattern Library, and as such, it explains a problem that the extension solves. On Outreach wiki, that page provides information for education program volunteers who might be wish to more learn about it in order to work with their communities to enable it on their projects. It is true that much of the information, on Outreach, in particular, is somewhat technical in nature, and somewhat duplicative of information that is available on mediawiki.org, but that is that something I am working on updating and improving. I welcome your input on that process; we could discuss it on the talk page. Kind regards, Anna -- Anna Koval, M.Ed. Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 x6729 ako...@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Samir Elsharbaty, 04/02/2015 03:08: It seems that the extension already covers most of what was suggested here: - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's draft pages. - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the articles within the scope of the event. - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related articles for members to more easily monitor. - probably many other use-cases that might emerge... Ah, does it. My understanding is that this has been considered feature bloat, to be removed in a rewrite of the extension. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor_campaigns If it works for you, however, it can hopefully scale. I suggest that you comment on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Gather to suggest they split the shared watchlist feature out of the Education extension If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same features? Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of the Ed extension: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/ Using_the_education_extension These are not appropriate places for documentation of a MediaWiki extension. Please move to the Help namespace of mediawiki.org. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Dear Nemo, There is, of course, other documentation on mediawiki already. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Education_Program https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Education_Program However, having additional how-to type pages in the help namespace is a great idea. I didn't realize that there were not already any help pages on mediawiki about the education program extension. Thank you for pointing that out. We can plan to add some. It is my understanding that Meta and Outreach wikis actually are appropriate places to share information about the this extension in these contexts. On Meta wiki, that page is part of the Learning Pattern Library, and as such, it explains a problem that the extension solves. On Outreach wiki, that page provides information for education program volunteers who might be wish to more learn about it in order to work with their communities to enable it on their projects. It is true that much of the information, on Outreach, in particular, is somewhat technical in nature, and somewhat duplicative of information that is available on mediawiki.org, but that is that something I am working on updating and improving. I welcome your input on that process; we could discuss it on the talk page. Kind regards, Anna -- Anna Koval, M.Ed. Manager, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +1.415.839.6885 x6729 ako...@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 11:12 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Samir Elsharbaty, 04/02/2015 03:08: It seems that the extension already covers most of what was suggested here: - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's draft pages. - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the articles within the scope of the event. - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related articles for members to more easily monitor. - probably many other use-cases that might emerge... Ah, does it. My understanding is that this has been considered feature bloat, to be removed in a rewrite of the extension. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor_campaigns If it works for you, however, it can hopefully scale. I suggest that you comment on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Gather to suggest they split the shared watchlist feature out of the Education extension If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same features? Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of the Ed extension: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/ Using_the_education_extension These are not appropriate places for documentation of a MediaWiki extension. Please move to the Help namespace of mediawiki.org. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/ wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Quim Gil wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:23 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: The proposed concept called collections, Now the project has a different working name: Gather https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gather Thanks, good to know. doesn't really leverage the fact that we already have shared lists of pages called categories. I wonder how would someone create a list of pages My Favourite Music Albums using MediaWiki categories. Perhaps some kind of prefixing scheme. For example, we could have a category named User:Example/My Favourite Music Albums. Or we could have Example's favourite music albums; why not? MediaWiki categories already support the idea of user-facing categories and hidden categories (e.g., article maintenance categories are typically hidden on the English Wikipedia). We could extend this model or redo it to be more flexible. This would be closer to iterative development. How would thousands of users gather thousands of pages using MediaWiki categories. Erm, probably in the same way thousands of users already gather thousands of pages into categories? :-) Wikimedia has a pretty large collection of categories, some of which contain hundreds of thousands of items. We scale! How would these categories be private, how would their owners avoid other users messing with them. The end result of a personal selection of pages might look similar to a MediaWiki category, but they are essentially different. The watchlist model is probably broken, so I'm not sure that it's is sensible to use it as a guide for future development. Though arguably the same could easily be said about categories. As for other users messing with category membership, we value openness around here. Think about the way we treat user pages: we don't prevent other users from improving them, even though they have somebody else's name on them. If you make a list called 1990s pop bands, wouldn't it be great if others could update it? That's basically the current category system. And if we also had Example's 1990s pop bands, others probably wouldn't update it because they're not Example, but they might occasionally add or remove a page and you might really enjoy that. The category system is deficient. We have one of the clunkiest systems to manage categories. HotCat and VisualEditor make adding a category vaguely easier, but the software shouldn't be so crippled out of the box. And even a decent input system doesn't resolve wanting to, for example, rename a category in MediaWiki. Or track category membership over time. And each challenge that categories face, this new product (Gather or Collections or whatever) will face almost exactly the same issues. There's so much room for improvement in the category system and it seems like the mobile team really wants lists of pages, which MediaWiki core already has in the form of categories. It seems like a win-win. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Hello everyone, As a user of the Education extension, for both Wikipedia Education Program work and non-WEP work, I would recommend using it for other different purposes. I know many people, including me, who used it to track editathon activity, working groups and many other projects. It seems that the extension already covers most of what was suggested here: - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's draft pages. - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the articles within the scope of the event. - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related articles for members to more easily monitor. - probably many other use-cases that might emerge... If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same features? Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of the Ed extension: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/Using_the_education_extension Please let me know if you have any questions, Thank you! On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 3:56 AM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: Quim Gil wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:23 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: The proposed concept called collections, Now the project has a different working name: Gather https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gather Thanks, good to know. doesn't really leverage the fact that we already have shared lists of pages called categories. I wonder how would someone create a list of pages My Favourite Music Albums using MediaWiki categories. Perhaps some kind of prefixing scheme. For example, we could have a category named User:Example/My Favourite Music Albums. Or we could have Example's favourite music albums; why not? MediaWiki categories already support the idea of user-facing categories and hidden categories (e.g., article maintenance categories are typically hidden on the English Wikipedia). We could extend this model or redo it to be more flexible. This would be closer to iterative development. How would thousands of users gather thousands of pages using MediaWiki categories. Erm, probably in the same way thousands of users already gather thousands of pages into categories? :-) Wikimedia has a pretty large collection of categories, some of which contain hundreds of thousands of items. We scale! How would these categories be private, how would their owners avoid other users messing with them. The end result of a personal selection of pages might look similar to a MediaWiki category, but they are essentially different. The watchlist model is probably broken, so I'm not sure that it's is sensible to use it as a guide for future development. Though arguably the same could easily be said about categories. As for other users messing with category membership, we value openness around here. Think about the way we treat user pages: we don't prevent other users from improving them, even though they have somebody else's name on them. If you make a list called 1990s pop bands, wouldn't it be great if others could update it? That's basically the current category system. And if we also had Example's 1990s pop bands, others probably wouldn't update it because they're not Example, but they might occasionally add or remove a page and you might really enjoy that. The category system is deficient. We have one of the clunkiest systems to manage categories. HotCat and VisualEditor make adding a category vaguely easier, but the software shouldn't be so crippled out of the box. And even a decent input system doesn't resolve wanting to, for example, rename a category in MediaWiki. Or track category membership over time. And each challenge that categories face, this new product (Gather or Collections or whatever) will face almost exactly the same issues. There's so much room for improvement in the category system and it seems like the mobile team really wants lists of pages, which MediaWiki core already has in the form of categories. It seems like a win-win. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe -- Samir Elsharbaty, Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharb...@wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Samir Elsharbaty, 04/02/2015 03:08: It seems that the extension already covers most of what was suggested here: - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's draft pages. - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the articles within the scope of the event. - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related articles for members to more easily monitor. - probably many other use-cases that might emerge... Ah, does it. My understanding is that this has been considered feature bloat, to be removed in a rewrite of the extension. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Editor_campaigns If it works for you, however, it can hopefully scale. I suggest that you comment on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Gather to suggest they split the shared watchlist feature out of the Education extension If this is the case why shall we have a new extension with the same features? Please have a look at this page which covers the features and use of the Ed extension: https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Education/Extension Also this learning pattern would help understanding how it works: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Learning_patterns/Using_the_education_extension These are not appropriate places for documentation of a MediaWiki extension. Please move to the Help namespace of mediawiki.org. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
On 3 February 2015 at 10:23, Fabian Tompsett fabian.tomps...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: We need an extension where users easily can form groups (namespace Groups: or something, used by an extension), where they easily can see the recent changes of edits of group members only Not precisely this, but related... Is there any plan to have folders in a watchlist, and then the ability to make a specific folder visible (a.k.a. shared) to others? Not only would this make it easier for people with very large watchlists to manage their work more easily, but this would also mean that a group (e.g. wikiproject, edithathon participants, classroom...) could easily subscribe to a shared watchlist folder. This would make it easy for them to follow each other's edits. - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's draft pages. - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the articles within the scope of the event. - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related articles for members to more easily monitor. - probably many other use-cases that might emerge... Has this been discussed/suggested before? -Liam ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:23 PM, MZMcBride z...@mzmcbride.com wrote: The proposed concept called collections, Now the project has a different working name: Gather https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Gather doesn't really leverage the fact that we already have shared lists of pages called categories. I wonder how would someone create a list of pages My Favourite Music Albums using MediaWiki categories. How would thousands of users gather thousands of pages using MediaWiki categories. How would these categories be private, how would their owners avoid other users messing with them. The end result of a personal selection of pages might look similar to a MediaWiki category, but they are essentially different. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Liam Wyatt wrote: Fabian Tompsett wrote: We need an extension where users easily can form groups (namespace Groups: or something, used by an extension), where they easily can see the recent changes of edits of group members only Not precisely this, but related... Is there any plan to have folders in a watchlist, and then the ability to make a specific folder visible (a.k.a. shared) to others? https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2015-January/080168.html The project has been dubbed Collections, and our pilot will let users create and share collections of articles. Not only would this make it easier for people with very large watchlists to manage their work more easily, but this would also mean that a group (e.g. wikiproject, edithathon participants, classroom...) could easily subscribe to a shared watchlist folder. This would make it easy for them to follow each other's edits. - A teacher or wiki-mentor could make a shared watchlist of their student's draft pages. - An editathon organiser could create a shared watchlist of all the articles within the scope of the event. - A wikiproject could create several shared watchlists to group related articles for members to more easily monitor. - probably many other use-cases that might emerge... Has this been discussed/suggested before? Yes. :-) I think the approach the Wikimedia Foundation mobile team is taking is flawed, though. The proposed concept called collections, in addition to being a confusing name that's already in use by another tangentially related extension, doesn't really leverage the fact that we already have shared lists of pages called categories. The current category system has a lot of challenges: inputting categories is hard, renaming categories is hard, watching changes to category members is hard, etc. There's _a lot_ of work to be done on the aging category system, but the feature already exists and there's shared knowledge about it. However, instead of a team working to improve categories, I imagine we'll see a whole new effort built up around a vaguely similar idea (collections) because it's a lot easier to make your own thing than improve someone else's. This development anti-pattern has unfortunately become fairly predictable, but it remains pernicious. MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Liam Wyatt, 03/02/2015 14:06: Not precisely this, but related... Is there any plan to have folders in a watchlist, and then the ability to make a specific folder visible (a.k.a. shared) to others? [...] Has this been discussed/suggested before? Only a few dozens times. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Watchlist_wishlist ; the proposal is tracked at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T7875 and https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T9467 . Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Fabian Tompsett fabian.tomps...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: At Wikimedia UK we are looking at taking this up in broader context, editathons etc. and it would be great to hear of other peoples experiences and their views. Just a comment aside about the etc. It is important to know when it is good not to use a wiki for planning purposes. Wikis are very good for wiki collaboration, and other tools are better suited for non-wiki activities like i.e. software development. The Education Program extension is good to coordinate wiki editing activities, and it might be also good for other wiki activities like editathons. For the etc (activities not based on wiki editing), you might want to consider a project management tool like https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/, which can perfectly satisfy the needs of non-technical projects and processes. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
[Wikimedia-l] Education Extension
Thanks to Romaine for his comment: The education extension is a primitive form of what is needed. We need an extension where users easily can form groups (namespace Groups: or something, used by an extension), where they easily can see the recent changes of edits of group members only, to be able to actively interact with other group members and having a long term participation in Wikipedia. Having software where users, interest groups or a group of editors from an external organisation can work together. At Wikimedia UK we are looking at taking this up in broader context, editathons etc. and it would be great to hear of other peoples experiences and their views. Please see our page https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Wikimedia_UK_and_the_Education_Program_Extension created in preparation for our Volunteer Strategy Gathering https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Volunteer_Strategy_Gathering/February_2015 on Saturday 28th February. all the best Fabian Tompsett, Volunteer Support Organiser, Wikimedia UK, Address: 56-64 Leonard St, Shoreditch, London EC2A 4LT Phone:020 7065 0990 *Mobile: *07840 455 746 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects). Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
