Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Gerard Meijssen 
Hear,  hear
Thanks,
 GerardM
Op 18 jun. 2013 12:08 schreef "Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada" 
het volgende:

> Seriously, are we discussing again about bot stubs yes, bot stubs no?
>
> Those users who want to submit complete 10-page articles, can move to the
> defunct Nupedia or the 'vibrant' Citizendium.
>
> This eternal discussion is so boring.
>
>
> 2013/6/18 Lydia Pintscher 
>
> > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski 
> > wrote:
> > > On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:
> > >>
> > >> As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.
> > >
> > >
> > > It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need
> to
> > do
> > > it.
> >
> > What exactly are you talking about being planned by the team? I'm not
> > sure we're all talking about the same thing.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Lydia
> >
> > --
> > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> > Community Communications for Technical Projects
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> > Obentrautstr. 72
> > 10963 Berlin
> > www.wikimedia.de
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> >
> > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Balázs Viczián 
WMHU had issues with the manual version of mass copying.

One of the most known, highly active and trusted user (at that time already
an admin) of WMHU, on the project for five years (from 2005) as of the date
it was revealed in 2010, have copied over half of his 11.000+ articles that
he created over these years. Unfortunately 5227 of them had to be deleted.

The full story (in Hungarian) is here:
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:A_VIL_copy_%C3%BCgy

Use google translator as long as the comminity does not create a free, open
source online (wiki)translator ;)

Maybe this is why I disagree with this human is better than bot reasoning -
there is no guarantee for that. Both the same imo.

However bot errors (most of the times) can be fixed much more easily. They
will create as good articles only as their owners are  thorough (for
example making sure using the most up to date sources for butterflies).

Cheers,

Balázs


2013.06.18. 12:08, "Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada"  ezt írta:

> Seriously, are we discussing again about bot stubs yes, bot stubs no?
>
> Those users who want to submit complete 10-page articles, can move to the
> defunct Nupedia or the 'vibrant' Citizendium.
>
> This eternal discussion is so boring.
>
>
> 2013/6/18 Lydia Pintscher 
>
> > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski 
> > wrote:
> > > On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:
> > >>
> > >> As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.
> > >
> > >
> > > It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need
> to
> > do
> > > it.
> >
> > What exactly are you talking about being planned by the team? I'm not
> > sure we're all talking about the same thing.
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> > Lydia
> >
> > --
> > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> > Community Communications for Technical Projects
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> > Obentrautstr. 72
> > 10963 Berlin
> > www.wikimedia.de
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> >
> > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
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> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Emilio J . Rodríguez-Posada 
Seriously, are we discussing again about bot stubs yes, bot stubs no?

Those users who want to submit complete 10-page articles, can move to the
defunct Nupedia or the 'vibrant' Citizendium.

This eternal discussion is so boring.


2013/6/18 Lydia Pintscher 

> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski 
> wrote:
> > On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:
> >>
> >> As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.
> >
> >
> > It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need to
> do
> > it.
>
> What exactly are you talking about being planned by the team? I'm not
> sure we're all talking about the same thing.
>
>
> Cheers
> Lydia
>
> --
> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
> Community Communications for Technical Projects
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
> Obentrautstr. 72
> 10963 Berlin
> www.wikimedia.de
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
>
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Lydia Pintscher 
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski  wrote:
> On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:
>>
>> As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.
>
>
> It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need to do
> it.

What exactly are you talking about being planned by the team? I'm not
sure we're all talking about the same thing.


Cheers
Lydia

--
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Nikola Smolenski 

On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:

As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.


It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need to 
do it.



2013/6/18 Ziko van Dijk 


Hello,
I am also unhappy with the mail from Hubertl, and also some remarks that
good be understood as a criticism of the German Wikipedia editing
community. Actually, both opinions coexist also in de.WP, although the anti
bot faction is obviously stronger.
My concern is that bot articles usually stay the same and don't grow much.
They give a bad impression about a Wikipedia language version, and there is
no one to update them. Maybe it would be better to support WikiData and
later find a solution with WikiData to provide data to small or large



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Martin Rulsch 
As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.

Cheers
Martin


2013/6/18 Ziko van Dijk 

> Hello,
> I am also unhappy with the mail from Hubertl, and also some remarks that
> good be understood as a criticism of the German Wikipedia editing
> community. Actually, both opinions coexist also in de.WP, although the anti
> bot faction is obviously stronger.
> My concern is that bot articles usually stay the same and don't grow much.
> They give a bad impression about a Wikipedia language version, and there is
> no one to update them. Maybe it would be better to support WikiData and
> later find a solution with WikiData to provide data to small or large
> Wikipedia language versions.
> Kind regards
> Ziko
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> Ziko van Dijk
> voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
> deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council
>
> Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
> Postbus 167
> 3500 AD Utrecht
> http://wikimedia.nl
>
> 
>
>
> 2013/6/17 Per A.J. Andersson 
>
> > Hi!
> >
> > Sad for seeing you so disappointed. Good to see you have insight in
> > butterflies. So I hope you will make your knowledge visible on dewp,
> where
> > neither genera so far have found its way into articles. enwp (together
> with
> > viwp!) has at least the genus "Jameela" as an article.
> >
> > That aside, is it really a disaster that svwp relies on scientific texts
> > that was unquestioned until three years ago? I think maybe there are more
> > pressing concerns in the development of our wikipedias.
> >
> > Best of wishes,
> > /Per
> > Paracel63 at svwp
> >
> > 2013-06-17, 22:29, skrev Kurt Kulac:
> >
> >
> >  i don´t want to repeat all those arguments already quoted (lennard
> >> already mentioned achim raschkas criticism, which i fully agree with),
> >> since what happend, already happend, and will unstoppably happen in the
> >> future.  but i would say first of all the strategic goal is not to
> >> contribute hundreds of mistakes a day. just to take the 1 millionth
> >> article Erysichton elaborata: after an advice on the talk page a HUMAN
> >> added, that the species is probably synonymized with Erysichton palmyra.
> >> so far, so good. but even this correction is not enough. in 2010 the
> >> genus erysichton was redefined and a new genus, jameela was described.
> >> both taxa now desrcibed as in sv.wikipedia are invalid.
> >>
> >> so just concerning this tiny tiny group of articles, there is already a
> >> bunch of mistakes, the bot copied out of outdated databases. wouldn´t be
> >> a big deal, if somebody mentioned that the articles sticked to the old
> >> view. but that´s something a bot can´t handle. so how reliable is the
> >> rest of the articles?
> >>
> >> a bot can be a convenient helper for authors, who know, how to handle
> >> it, as it seems has happened with the creation of the articles about
> >> swedish lakes (i´m no expert with that though). but it is a desastrous
> >> tool for our whole movement, if you create hundreds of thousands (!)
> >> articles, without the slightest idea, how to handle the contradictions,
> >> that will appear doubtlessly?
> >>
> >> it´s a sad thing, that you mention quality and this action in one
> >> centence...
> >>
> >> truly utterly disappointed encyclopedic greetings,
> >> kurt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > __**_
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Ziko van Dijk 
Hello,
I am also unhappy with the mail from Hubertl, and also some remarks that
good be understood as a criticism of the German Wikipedia editing
community. Actually, both opinions coexist also in de.WP, although the anti
bot faction is obviously stronger.
My concern is that bot articles usually stay the same and don't grow much.
They give a bad impression about a Wikipedia language version, and there is
no one to update them. Maybe it would be better to support WikiData and
later find a solution with WikiData to provide data to small or large
Wikipedia language versions.
Kind regards
Ziko







Ziko van Dijk
voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council

Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
Postbus 167
3500 AD Utrecht
http://wikimedia.nl



2013/6/17 Per A.J. Andersson 

> Hi!
>
> Sad for seeing you so disappointed. Good to see you have insight in
> butterflies. So I hope you will make your knowledge visible on dewp, where
> neither genera so far have found its way into articles. enwp (together with
> viwp!) has at least the genus "Jameela" as an article.
>
> That aside, is it really a disaster that svwp relies on scientific texts
> that was unquestioned until three years ago? I think maybe there are more
> pressing concerns in the development of our wikipedias.
>
> Best of wishes,
> /Per
> Paracel63 at svwp
>
> 2013-06-17, 22:29, skrev Kurt Kulac:
>
>
>  i don´t want to repeat all those arguments already quoted (lennard
>> already mentioned achim raschkas criticism, which i fully agree with),
>> since what happend, already happend, and will unstoppably happen in the
>> future.  but i would say first of all the strategic goal is not to
>> contribute hundreds of mistakes a day. just to take the 1 millionth
>> article Erysichton elaborata: after an advice on the talk page a HUMAN
>> added, that the species is probably synonymized with Erysichton palmyra.
>> so far, so good. but even this correction is not enough. in 2010 the
>> genus erysichton was redefined and a new genus, jameela was described.
>> both taxa now desrcibed as in sv.wikipedia are invalid.
>>
>> so just concerning this tiny tiny group of articles, there is already a
>> bunch of mistakes, the bot copied out of outdated databases. wouldn´t be
>> a big deal, if somebody mentioned that the articles sticked to the old
>> view. but that´s something a bot can´t handle. so how reliable is the
>> rest of the articles?
>>
>> a bot can be a convenient helper for authors, who know, how to handle
>> it, as it seems has happened with the creation of the articles about
>> swedish lakes (i´m no expert with that though). but it is a desastrous
>> tool for our whole movement, if you create hundreds of thousands (!)
>> articles, without the slightest idea, how to handle the contradictions,
>> that will appear doubtlessly?
>>
>> it´s a sad thing, that you mention quality and this action in one
>> centence...
>>
>> truly utterly disappointed encyclopedic greetings,
>> kurt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> __**_
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> Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org 
> Unsubscribe: 
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Per A.J. Andersson 

Hi!

Sad for seeing you so disappointed. Good to see you have insight 
in butterflies. So I hope you will make your knowledge visible 
on dewp, where neither genera so far have found its way into 
articles. enwp (together with viwp!) has at least the genus 
"Jameela" as an article.


That aside, is it really a disaster that svwp relies on 
scientific texts that was unquestioned until three years ago? I 
think maybe there are more pressing concerns in the development 
of our wikipedias.


Best of wishes,
/Per
Paracel63 at svwp

2013-06-17, 22:29, skrev Kurt Kulac:


i don´t want to repeat all those arguments already quoted (lennard
already mentioned achim raschkas criticism, which i fully agree with),
since what happend, already happend, and will unstoppably happen in the
future.  but i would say first of all the strategic goal is not to
contribute hundreds of mistakes a day. just to take the 1 millionth
article Erysichton elaborata: after an advice on the talk page a HUMAN
added, that the species is probably synonymized with Erysichton palmyra.
so far, so good. but even this correction is not enough. in 2010 the
genus erysichton was redefined and a new genus, jameela was described.
both taxa now desrcibed as in sv.wikipedia are invalid.

so just concerning this tiny tiny group of articles, there is already a
bunch of mistakes, the bot copied out of outdated databases. wouldn´t be
a big deal, if somebody mentioned that the articles sticked to the old
view. but that´s something a bot can´t handle. so how reliable is the
rest of the articles?

a bot can be a convenient helper for authors, who know, how to handle
it, as it seems has happened with the creation of the articles about
swedish lakes (i´m no expert with that though). but it is a desastrous
tool for our whole movement, if you create hundreds of thousands (!)
articles, without the slightest idea, how to handle the contradictions,
that will appear doubtlessly?

it´s a sad thing, that you mention quality and this action in one
centence...

truly utterly disappointed encyclopedic greetings,
kurt









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[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Kurt Kulac 


Am 17.06.2013 16:01, schrieb Jan Ainali:

2013/6/17 Ilario Valdelli 


One of the strategic goal of the plan of wikimedia movement is the quality.


That is true. However, the strategic plan does not go into detail on how to
measure it. Is it an article that only has claims backed by sources? If so,
the bot-generated articles are very high-quality. Is it a featured article?
Then I guess that reaching the goal of 25% will be pretty tough.

Actually, the most reasonable way to reach that goal, having 12,5 million
quality articles in two years, is to use some sort of automation.

/Jan Ainali


i don´t want to repeat all those arguments already quoted (lennard
already mentioned achim raschkas criticism, which i fully agree with),
since what happend, already happend, and will unstoppably happen in the
future.  but i would say first of all the strategic goal is not to
contribute hundreds of mistakes a day. just to take the 1 millionth
article Erysichton elaborata: after an advice on the talk page a HUMAN
added, that the species is probably synonymized with Erysichton palmyra.
so far, so good. but even this correction is not enough. in 2010 the
genus erysichton was redefined and a new genus, jameela was described.
both taxa now desrcibed as in sv.wikipedia are invalid.

so just concerning this tiny tiny group of articles, there is already a
bunch of mistakes, the bot copied out of outdated databases. wouldn´t be
a big deal, if somebody mentioned that the articles sticked to the old
view. but that´s something a bot can´t handle. so how reliable is the
rest of the articles?

a bot can be a convenient helper for authors, who know, how to handle
it, as it seems has happened with the creation of the articles about
swedish lakes (i´m no expert with that though). but it is a desastrous
tool for our whole movement, if you create hundreds of thousands (!)
articles, without the slightest idea, how to handle the contradictions,
that will appear doubtlessly?

it´s a sad thing, that you mention quality and this action in one
centence...

truly utterly disappointed encyclopedic greetings,
kurt






--
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