Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Nikola Smolenski

On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:

As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.


It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need to 
do it.



2013/6/18 Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl


Hello,
I am also unhappy with the mail from Hubertl, and also some remarks that
good be understood as a criticism of the German Wikipedia editing
community. Actually, both opinions coexist also in de.WP, although the anti
bot faction is obviously stronger.
My concern is that bot articles usually stay the same and don't grow much.
They give a bad impression about a Wikipedia language version, and there is
no one to update them. Maybe it would be better to support WikiData and
later find a solution with WikiData to provide data to small or large



___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Lydia Pintscher
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs wrote:
 On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:

 As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.


 It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need to do
 it.

What exactly are you talking about being planned by the team? I'm not
sure we're all talking about the same thing.


Cheers
Lydia

--
Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
Community Communications for Technical Projects

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
Obentrautstr. 72
10963 Berlin
www.wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Emilio J . Rodríguez-Posada
Seriously, are we discussing again about bot stubs yes, bot stubs no?

Those users who want to submit complete 10-page articles, can move to the
defunct Nupedia or the 'vibrant' Citizendium.

This eternal discussion is so boring.


2013/6/18 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de

 On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs
 wrote:
  On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:
 
  As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.
 
 
  It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need to
 do
  it.

 What exactly are you talking about being planned by the team? I'm not
 sure we're all talking about the same thing.


 Cheers
 Lydia

 --
 Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
 Community Communications for Technical Projects

 Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
 Obentrautstr. 72
 10963 Berlin
 www.wikimedia.de

 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.

 Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
 unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
 Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.

 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Balázs Viczián
WMHU had issues with the manual version of mass copying.

One of the most known, highly active and trusted user (at that time already
an admin) of WMHU, on the project for five years (from 2005) as of the date
it was revealed in 2010, have copied over half of his 11.000+ articles that
he created over these years. Unfortunately 5227 of them had to be deleted.

The full story (in Hungarian) is here:
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:A_VIL_copy_%C3%BCgy

Use google translator as long as the comminity does not create a free, open
source online (wiki)translator ;)

Maybe this is why I disagree with this human is better than bot reasoning -
there is no guarantee for that. Both the same imo.

However bot errors (most of the times) can be fixed much more easily. They
will create as good articles only as their owners are  thorough (for
example making sure using the most up to date sources for butterflies).

Cheers,

Balázs


2013.06.18. 12:08, Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada emi...@gmail.com ezt írta:

 Seriously, are we discussing again about bot stubs yes, bot stubs no?

 Those users who want to submit complete 10-page articles, can move to the
 defunct Nupedia or the 'vibrant' Citizendium.

 This eternal discussion is so boring.


 2013/6/18 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de

  On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs
  wrote:
   On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:
  
   As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.
  
  
   It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need
 to
  do
   it.
 
  What exactly are you talking about being planned by the team? I'm not
  sure we're all talking about the same thing.
 
 
  Cheers
  Lydia
 
  --
  Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
  Community Communications for Technical Projects
 
  Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
  Obentrautstr. 72
  10963 Berlin
  www.wikimedia.de
 
  Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
 
  Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
  unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
  Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-18 Thread Gerard Meijssen
Hear,  hear
Thanks,
 GerardM
Op 18 jun. 2013 12:08 schreef Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada emi...@gmail.com
het volgende:

 Seriously, are we discussing again about bot stubs yes, bot stubs no?

 Those users who want to submit complete 10-page articles, can move to the
 defunct Nupedia or the 'vibrant' Citizendium.

 This eternal discussion is so boring.


 2013/6/18 Lydia Pintscher lydia.pintsc...@wikimedia.de

  On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.rs
  wrote:
   On 18/06/13 01:04, Martin Rulsch wrote:
  
   As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.
  
  
   It isn't exactly planned by the Wikidata tema, a volunteer would need
 to
  do
   it.
 
  What exactly are you talking about being planned by the team? I'm not
  sure we're all talking about the same thing.
 
 
  Cheers
  Lydia
 
  --
  Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher
  Community Communications for Technical Projects
 
  Wikimedia Deutschland e.V.
  Obentrautstr. 72
  10963 Berlin
  www.wikimedia.de
 
  Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
 
  Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
  unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
  Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
 
  ___
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


[Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Kurt Kulac


Am 17.06.2013 16:01, schrieb Jan Ainali:

2013/6/17 Ilario Valdelli valde...@gmail.com


One of the strategic goal of the plan of wikimedia movement is the quality.


That is true. However, the strategic plan does not go into detail on how to
measure it. Is it an article that only has claims backed by sources? If so,
the bot-generated articles are very high-quality. Is it a featured article?
Then I guess that reaching the goal of 25% will be pretty tough.

Actually, the most reasonable way to reach that goal, having 12,5 million
quality articles in two years, is to use some sort of automation.

/Jan Ainali


i don´t want to repeat all those arguments already quoted (lennard
already mentioned achim raschkas criticism, which i fully agree with),
since what happend, already happend, and will unstoppably happen in the
future.  but i would say first of all the strategic goal is not to
contribute hundreds of mistakes a day. just to take the 1 millionth
article Erysichton elaborata: after an advice on the talk page a HUMAN
added, that the species is probably synonymized with Erysichton palmyra.
so far, so good. but even this correction is not enough. in 2010 the
genus erysichton was redefined and a new genus, jameela was described.
both taxa now desrcibed as in sv.wikipedia are invalid.

so just concerning this tiny tiny group of articles, there is already a
bunch of mistakes, the bot copied out of outdated databases. wouldn´t be
a big deal, if somebody mentioned that the articles sticked to the old
view. but that´s something a bot can´t handle. so how reliable is the
rest of the articles?

a bot can be a convenient helper for authors, who know, how to handle
it, as it seems has happened with the creation of the articles about
swedish lakes (i´m no expert with that though). but it is a desastrous
tool for our whole movement, if you create hundreds of thousands (!)
articles, without the slightest idea, how to handle the contradictions,
that will appear doubtlessly?

it´s a sad thing, that you mention quality and this action in one
centence...

truly utterly disappointed encyclopedic greetings,
kurt






--
Mag. Kurt Kulac, Obmann
___
Wikimedia Österreich
Gesellschaft zur Förderung freien Wissens
Siebensterngasse 25/15, 1070 Wien
www.wikimedia.at
+43 664 4128615






___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Per A.J. Andersson

Hi!

Sad for seeing you so disappointed. Good to see you have insight 
in butterflies. So I hope you will make your knowledge visible 
on dewp, where neither genera so far have found its way into 
articles. enwp (together with viwp!) has at least the genus 
Jameela as an article.


That aside, is it really a disaster that svwp relies on 
scientific texts that was unquestioned until three years ago? I 
think maybe there are more pressing concerns in the development 
of our wikipedias.


Best of wishes,
/Per
Paracel63 at svwp

2013-06-17, 22:29, skrev Kurt Kulac:


i don´t want to repeat all those arguments already quoted (lennard
already mentioned achim raschkas criticism, which i fully agree with),
since what happend, already happend, and will unstoppably happen in the
future.  but i would say first of all the strategic goal is not to
contribute hundreds of mistakes a day. just to take the 1 millionth
article Erysichton elaborata: after an advice on the talk page a HUMAN
added, that the species is probably synonymized with Erysichton palmyra.
so far, so good. but even this correction is not enough. in 2010 the
genus erysichton was redefined and a new genus, jameela was described.
both taxa now desrcibed as in sv.wikipedia are invalid.

so just concerning this tiny tiny group of articles, there is already a
bunch of mistakes, the bot copied out of outdated databases. wouldn´t be
a big deal, if somebody mentioned that the articles sticked to the old
view. but that´s something a bot can´t handle. so how reliable is the
rest of the articles?

a bot can be a convenient helper for authors, who know, how to handle
it, as it seems has happened with the creation of the articles about
swedish lakes (i´m no expert with that though). but it is a desastrous
tool for our whole movement, if you create hundreds of thousands (!)
articles, without the slightest idea, how to handle the contradictions,
that will appear doubtlessly?

it´s a sad thing, that you mention quality and this action in one
centence...

truly utterly disappointed encyclopedic greetings,
kurt









___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l


Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: Fwd: Re: Swedish Wikipedia reach 1 million (with supportof bots)

2013-06-17 Thread Martin Rulsch
As far as I know, that's even planned by the Wikidata team.

Cheers
Martin


2013/6/18 Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl

 Hello,
 I am also unhappy with the mail from Hubertl, and also some remarks that
 good be understood as a criticism of the German Wikipedia editing
 community. Actually, both opinions coexist also in de.WP, although the anti
 bot faction is obviously stronger.
 My concern is that bot articles usually stay the same and don't grow much.
 They give a bad impression about a Wikipedia language version, and there is
 no one to update them. Maybe it would be better to support WikiData and
 later find a solution with WikiData to provide data to small or large
 Wikipedia language versions.
 Kind regards
 Ziko







 
 Ziko van Dijk
 voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland
 deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council

 Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland
 Postbus 167
 3500 AD Utrecht
 http://wikimedia.nl

 


 2013/6/17 Per A.J. Andersson p...@telia.com

  Hi!
 
  Sad for seeing you so disappointed. Good to see you have insight in
  butterflies. So I hope you will make your knowledge visible on dewp,
 where
  neither genera so far have found its way into articles. enwp (together
 with
  viwp!) has at least the genus Jameela as an article.
 
  That aside, is it really a disaster that svwp relies on scientific texts
  that was unquestioned until three years ago? I think maybe there are more
  pressing concerns in the development of our wikipedias.
 
  Best of wishes,
  /Per
  Paracel63 at svwp
 
  2013-06-17, 22:29, skrev Kurt Kulac:
 
 
   i don´t want to repeat all those arguments already quoted (lennard
  already mentioned achim raschkas criticism, which i fully agree with),
  since what happend, already happend, and will unstoppably happen in the
  future.  but i would say first of all the strategic goal is not to
  contribute hundreds of mistakes a day. just to take the 1 millionth
  article Erysichton elaborata: after an advice on the talk page a HUMAN
  added, that the species is probably synonymized with Erysichton palmyra.
  so far, so good. but even this correction is not enough. in 2010 the
  genus erysichton was redefined and a new genus, jameela was described.
  both taxa now desrcibed as in sv.wikipedia are invalid.
 
  so just concerning this tiny tiny group of articles, there is already a
  bunch of mistakes, the bot copied out of outdated databases. wouldn´t be
  a big deal, if somebody mentioned that the articles sticked to the old
  view. but that´s something a bot can´t handle. so how reliable is the
  rest of the articles?
 
  a bot can be a convenient helper for authors, who know, how to handle
  it, as it seems has happened with the creation of the articles about
  swedish lakes (i´m no expert with that though). but it is a desastrous
  tool for our whole movement, if you create hundreds of thousands (!)
  articles, without the slightest idea, how to handle the contradictions,
  that will appear doubtlessly?
 
  it´s a sad thing, that you mention quality and this action in one
  centence...
 
  truly utterly disappointed encyclopedic greetings,
  kurt
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  __**_
  Wikimedia-l mailing list
  Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
  Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
 
 ___
 Wikimedia-l mailing list
 Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l




-- 
Wikimedia Deutschland e. V.
Obentrautstr. 72
10963 Berlin

Telefon 030 - 219 158 26-0
www.wikimedia.de

Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt
für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list
Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l