Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Michael Peel]

Sadly, uploading images to Commons is as slow as ever, even with HHVM. :-( I 
often find that it takes a couple of minutes to upload a single photo, most of 
which is server-side delays rather than file upload time. I’m guessing that 
it’s something other than the PHP processor that’s causing this slow-down, 
though.

Thanks,
Mike

On 22 Sep 2014, at 10:39, Federico Leva (Nemo)  wrote:

> Samuel Klein, 22/09/2014 01:05:
>> Ori and all: this is really fantastic.  Thank you.
>> I'm seeing 2+ second speedups (on 6+s loads :/ )  on longish pages such as
> 
> And saving a null edit to 
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Cbrown1023/Logos went from 90+ seconds 
> to ~30 for me I think? :p
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Rand, seconding some of your ideas: I would welcome a brief status
>> table showing development-stage and one-line status for each activity,
>> with a link to details.
>> 
>> For the detail pages: The status-history that most activities have is
>> handy.  A roadmap + timeline are great where they exist, but can fall
>> out of date when updated manually.  Perhaps this could be transcluded
>> from an overall roadmap that is defined as the most up-to-date plan of
>> record.
>> 
>> An overall priority list & 'what is needed next' would also help
>> readers & contributors & testers understand what to prepare for and
>> how to help.
> 
> Also related: 
> 
> 
> Nemo
> 
>> For instance with SUL finalization and other activities
>> that involve a lot of coordination and communication and cleanup.
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Samuel Klein, 22/09/2014 01:05:

Ori and all: this is really fantastic.  Thank you.
I'm seeing 2+ second speedups (on 6+s loads :/ )  on longish pages such as


And saving a null edit to 
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Cbrown1023/Logos went from 90+ 
seconds to ~30 for me I think? :p





Rand, seconding some of your ideas: I would welcome a brief status
table showing development-stage and one-line status for each activity,
with a link to details.

For the detail pages: The status-history that most activities have is
handy.  A roadmap + timeline are great where they exist, but can fall
out of date when updated manually.  Perhaps this could be transcluded
from an overall roadmap that is defined as the most up-to-date plan of
record.

An overall priority list & 'what is needed next' would also help
readers & contributors & testers understand what to prepare for and
how to help.


Also related: 



Nemo


For instance with SUL finalization and other activities
that involve a lot of coordination and communication and cleanup.


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Ori Livneh]

On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Samuel Klein  wrote:

> An overall priority list & 'what is needed next' would also help
> readers & contributors & testers understand what to prepare for and
> how to help.


Yes. I agree that if we had been a touch more formal and disciplined about
process, we would have engaged a broader subset of the community, to
everyone's benefit. I take responsibility for that. Formal process
management and regular bookkeeping are challenging for me, and I don't
always know how to ask for help or share responsibilities. Your feedback
spurs me to try and do better.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Samuel Klein]

Ori and all: this is really fantastic.  Thank you.
I'm seeing 2+ second speedups (on 6+s loads :/ )  on longish pages such as
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project:Support_desk
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&action=history


Rand, seconding some of your ideas: I would welcome a brief status
table showing development-stage and one-line status for each activity,
with a link to details.

For the detail pages: The status-history that most activities have is
handy.  A roadmap + timeline are great where they exist, but can fall
out of date when updated manually.  Perhaps this could be transcluded
from an overall roadmap that is defined as the most up-to-date plan of
record.

An overall priority list & 'what is needed next' would also help
readers & contributors & testers understand what to prepare for and
how to help.  For instance with SUL finalization and other activities
that involve a lot of coordination and communication and cleanup.

Sam

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Rand McRanderson  wrote:
> Thank you,
>
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/Dashboard
>
> This is exacly the sort of thing I had in mind. Although I do have a few
> suggestions.
>
> 1. The sizes of the rows are unwieldy. Maybe take the top X amount of
> characters from each status summary, instead of the full status summary, and
> make the links to the full status pages more prominent (alternatively, you
> could have a short summary have an expand link of some sort to expand to the
> full summary within this same page). Is there a template for this?
>
> 2. A column with a one or two word stage name like Pine described would be
> helpful, especially if you could sort on it. For sorting purposes, it would
> be cool to sort by the order of stages (although that is really just an
> icing on top sort of idea, probably could be done most easily by just having
> a number in front of the stage name).
>
> The problem with just reading the statuses like these is that a brief
> statement about the fact that it is almost ready to deploy or something like
> that can get lost in a wall of text.
>
> On 09/20/2014 04:17 PM, Guillaume Paumier wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Rand McRanderson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Here is one idea. A dashboard of top level Wikimedia projects with
>>> statuses, estimates, and a key to terms. Or does this exist?
>>
>> There is https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/Dashboard
>>
>> It doesn't have everything you mentioned, but we can build on it and
>> improve it.
>>
>
>
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-- 
Samuel Klein  @metasj   w:user:sj  +1 617 529 4266

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Pine W]

Just a few thoughts:

* I agree that the tone of the email that started this discussion about
software quality standards was unnecessarily critical. Even in production
releases, users may find occasional bugs.

* The intent of HHVM implementation and James' quick response to the
problem report are nice to see.

* The perfect should not be the enemy of the good, especially for opt-in
pre-production releases.

* Regarding standards for different release phases, I would need to think
more about that but hope that someone will set up a proposed checklist on
MediaWiki.org. We have some quality experts like Chris McMahon and their
input would be helpful.

Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Anders Wennersten]

Pine, I believe your points are very valid and relevant

To know of the process WMF is using is a basic demand, in order for 
users to know what to expect and how to relate to releases.


To know what process is used is not the same as asking for more 
bureaucracy. Even a process description like "we let all programmers 
release in whatever status of quality they want" (if that would be true) 
is better then today, as it gives clarification


Then, but secondary to this demand of clarification, and also very 
important is that WMF is using a process on par with what is needed in 
this environment. And the process description could very well, (in order 
to allow for agile programming), only focus on criteria for releases, 
and skip how to get there


Anders


Pine W skrev 2014-09-21 10:24:

Given longtime experience with  problematic releases of MediaWiki features,
I think that published quality standards that products must meet in order
to become production releases could help to limit the number and
seriousness of additional troubled launches. These standards would also
reduce the ambiguity around terms like alpha and beta.

Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
The problem is not so much in expected standards, it is in realistic
standards. The latest announcement of the improvement in speed was welcomed
by someone stating "I do not give a fuck because my tool does not woirk
with this crap".

There are two issues, tools break and are not part of the product and it
has become the way people approach development. There is hardly any
appreciation or respect for the work done.

I am not convinced at al by your proposall, actually I feel quite the
contrary. I expect this will be counter productive. My feeling is that it
enables to score points in the blame games .
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 21 September 2014 10:24, Pine W  wrote:

> Given longtime experience with  problematic releases of MediaWiki features,
> I think that published quality standards that products must meet in order
> to become production releases could help to limit the number and
> seriousness of additional troubled launches. These standards would also
> reduce the ambiguity around terms like alpha and beta.
>
> Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Pine W]

Given longtime experience with  problematic releases of MediaWiki features,
I think that published quality standards that products must meet in order
to become production releases could help to limit the number and
seriousness of additional troubled launches. These standards would also
reduce the ambiguity around terms like alpha and beta.

Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi.
What is it that you want to achieve? What is the cost and what is the
benefit? Reporting raises expectations and it solidifies development making
it LESS agile and LESS responsive! The question therefore is so you have
more information but what good does it do you, me us ?
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 21 September 2014 09:51, Pine W  wrote:

> Thanks, but I'm looking for something that is more specific to MediaWiki
> and that commits development teams to specific, standardized, and
> transparently measured quality metrics as products advance or regress in
> their path to production release.
>
> Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Pine W]

Thanks, but I'm looking for something that is more specific to MediaWiki
and that commits development teams to specific, standardized, and
transparently measured quality metrics as products advance or regress in
their path to production release.

Pine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Antoine Musso]

Le 20/09/2014 09:37, Pine W a écrit :
> Do we have a published guideline somewhere about MediaWiki quality
> standards for pre-alpha, alpha, beta, and production releases of elements
> like MediaViewer, VisualEditor, Flow, Winter, and HHVM?
> 
> Pine

Hello,

The terms are pretty much standard in the industry.  The different
development stages are described at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle

-- 
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Rand McRanderson]

Thank you,

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/Dashboard

This is exacly the sort of thing I had in mind. Although I do have a few 
suggestions.


1. The sizes of the rows are unwieldy. Maybe take the top X amount of 
characters from each status summary, instead of the full status summary, 
and make the links to the full status pages more prominent 
(alternatively, you could have a short summary have an expand link of 
some sort to expand to the full summary within this same page). Is there 
a template for this?


2. A column with a one or two word stage name like Pine described would 
be helpful, especially if you could sort on it. For sorting purposes, it 
would be cool to sort by the order of stages (although that is really 
just an icing on top sort of idea, probably could be done most easily by 
just having a number in front of the stage name).


The problem with just reading the statuses like these is that a brief 
statement about the fact that it is almost ready to deploy or something 
like that can get lost in a wall of text.


On 09/20/2014 04:17 PM, Guillaume Paumier wrote:

Hello,

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Rand McRanderson  wrote:

Here is one idea. A dashboard of top level Wikimedia projects with
statuses, estimates, and a key to terms. Or does this exist?

There is https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/Dashboard

It doesn't have everything you mentioned, but we can build on it and improve it.




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

Rand McRanderson, 20/09/2014 21:32:

Here is one idea. A dashboard of top level Wikimedia projects


https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering


with
statuses, estimates, and a key to terms. Or does this exist?


No: 



Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Guillaume Paumier]

Hello,

On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Rand McRanderson  wrote:
> Here is one idea. A dashboard of top level Wikimedia projects with
> statuses, estimates, and a key to terms. Or does this exist?

There is https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Engineering/Dashboard

It doesn't have everything you mentioned, but we can build on it and improve it.

-- 
Guillaume Paumier

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Rand McRanderson]

Here is one idea. A dashboard of top level Wikimedia projects with
statuses, estimates, and a key to terms. Or does this exist?
On Sep 20, 2014 3:37 AM, "Pine W"  wrote:

> Do we have a published guideline somewhere about MediaWiki quality
> standards for pre-alpha, alpha, beta, and production releases of elements
> like MediaViewer, VisualEditor, Flow, Winter, and HHVM?
>
> Pine
> On Sep 20, 2014 12:14 AM, "Jon Work"  wrote:
>
> > :}   I am always impressed by those of you for whom English is not your
> > native tongue. It can be very complicated to understand some of the
> > shortcuts we use.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > > On 20 Sep 2014, at 02:22, MZMcBride  wrote:
> > >
> > > Anders Wennersten wrote:
> > >> I also did soma very subjective test on response times and found the
> new
> > >> feature to give 1-3 s quicker response, which is quite much (6s-5s,
> > >> 7s-4s) and make a big difference in the user experience.
> > >
> > > Woo! :D
> > >
> > >> Also after reflecting on my little harsh reaction on the deployment
> > >> process, I wonder if it is not a language/communication issue
> > >>
> > >> Being a non-native English speaking person I must admit I have no idea
> > >> of the meaning "intrepid" means in "for intrepid beta testers".  It
> > >> seems for Guillaume it means "hey this is badly tested, but use if you
> > >> have patience/courage" which I can accept as a message of a
> testrelease
> > >>
> > >> Also in my backgroud working in a company making internal deployment
> of
> > >> software for 4000 internal users, I am used of making a huge
> difference
> > >> in "ready for Alpha test" and "ready for Beta test", but perhaps my
> > >> reference frame is inappropriate in this case, where perhaps a beta
> > >> functionality means "Software for testing, not ready for release" and
> > >> covering both my distinctions
> > >>
> > >> So I apologize if I used too strong wordings and instead want to
> > >> congratulate you on releasing a good function where you so speedily
> > >> fixed the bug!
> > >
> > > No worries. Thank you for taking the time to write up this message
> > > explaining. I think there are definitely ways in which we can improve
> our
> > > communication about beta (or alpha!) features, including attempting to
> > > label them appropriately and making sure the message is suitably clear.
> > > Your constructive feedback will help us do better in the future.
> > >
> > > MZMcBride
> > >
> > >
> > >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Pine W]

Do we have a published guideline somewhere about MediaWiki quality
standards for pre-alpha, alpha, beta, and production releases of elements
like MediaViewer, VisualEditor, Flow, Winter, and HHVM?

Pine
On Sep 20, 2014 12:14 AM, "Jon Work"  wrote:

> :}   I am always impressed by those of you for whom English is not your
> native tongue. It can be very complicated to understand some of the
> shortcuts we use.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 20 Sep 2014, at 02:22, MZMcBride  wrote:
> >
> > Anders Wennersten wrote:
> >> I also did soma very subjective test on response times and found the new
> >> feature to give 1-3 s quicker response, which is quite much (6s-5s,
> >> 7s-4s) and make a big difference in the user experience.
> >
> > Woo! :D
> >
> >> Also after reflecting on my little harsh reaction on the deployment
> >> process, I wonder if it is not a language/communication issue
> >>
> >> Being a non-native English speaking person I must admit I have no idea
> >> of the meaning "intrepid" means in "for intrepid beta testers".  It
> >> seems for Guillaume it means "hey this is badly tested, but use if you
> >> have patience/courage" which I can accept as a message of a testrelease
> >>
> >> Also in my backgroud working in a company making internal deployment of
> >> software for 4000 internal users, I am used of making a huge difference
> >> in "ready for Alpha test" and "ready for Beta test", but perhaps my
> >> reference frame is inappropriate in this case, where perhaps a beta
> >> functionality means "Software for testing, not ready for release" and
> >> covering both my distinctions
> >>
> >> So I apologize if I used too strong wordings and instead want to
> >> congratulate you on releasing a good function where you so speedily
> >> fixed the bug!
> >
> > No worries. Thank you for taking the time to write up this message
> > explaining. I think there are definitely ways in which we can improve our
> > communication about beta (or alpha!) features, including attempting to
> > label them appropriately and making sure the message is suitably clear.
> > Your constructive feedback will help us do better in the future.
> >
> > MZMcBride
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Jon Work]

:}   I am always impressed by those of you for whom English is not your native 
tongue. It can be very complicated to understand some of the shortcuts we use. 

Sent from my iPad

> On 20 Sep 2014, at 02:22, MZMcBride  wrote:
> 
> Anders Wennersten wrote:
>> I also did soma very subjective test on response times and found the new
>> feature to give 1-3 s quicker response, which is quite much (6s-5s,
>> 7s-4s) and make a big difference in the user experience.
> 
> Woo! :D
> 
>> Also after reflecting on my little harsh reaction on the deployment
>> process, I wonder if it is not a language/communication issue
>> 
>> Being a non-native English speaking person I must admit I have no idea
>> of the meaning "intrepid" means in "for intrepid beta testers".  It
>> seems for Guillaume it means "hey this is badly tested, but use if you
>> have patience/courage" which I can accept as a message of a testrelease
>> 
>> Also in my backgroud working in a company making internal deployment of
>> software for 4000 internal users, I am used of making a huge difference
>> in "ready for Alpha test" and "ready for Beta test", but perhaps my
>> reference frame is inappropriate in this case, where perhaps a beta
>> functionality means "Software for testing, not ready for release" and
>> covering both my distinctions
>> 
>> So I apologize if I used too strong wordings and instead want to
>> congratulate you on releasing a good function where you so speedily
>> fixed the bug!
> 
> No worries. Thank you for taking the time to write up this message
> explaining. I think there are definitely ways in which we can improve our
> communication about beta (or alpha!) features, including attempting to
> label them appropriately and making sure the message is suitably clear.
> Your constructive feedback will help us do better in the future.
> 
> MZMcBride
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[MZMcBride]

Anders Wennersten wrote:
>I also did soma very subjective test on response times and found the new
>feature to give 1-3 s quicker response, which is quite much (6s-5s,
>7s-4s) and make a big difference in the user experience.

Woo! :D

>Also after reflecting on my little harsh reaction on the deployment
>process, I wonder if it is not a language/communication issue
>
>Being a non-native English speaking person I must admit I have no idea
>of the meaning "intrepid" means in "for intrepid beta testers".  It
>seems for Guillaume it means "hey this is badly tested, but use if you
>have patience/courage" which I can accept as a message of a testrelease
>
>Also in my backgroud working in a company making internal deployment of
>software for 4000 internal users, I am used of making a huge difference
>in "ready for Alpha test" and "ready for Beta test", but perhaps my
>reference frame is inappropriate in this case, where perhaps a beta
>functionality means "Software for testing, not ready for release" and
>covering both my distinctions
>
>So I apologize if I used too strong wordings and instead want to
>congratulate you on releasing a good function where you so speedily
>fixed the bug!

No worries. Thank you for taking the time to write up this message
explaining. I think there are definitely ways in which we can improve our
communication about beta (or alpha!) features, including attempting to
label them appropriately and making sure the message is suitably clear.
Your constructive feedback will help us do better in the future.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Anders Wennersten]

It now works as it should, thanks for a quick fix!

I also did soma very subjective test on response times and found the new 
feature to give 1-3 s quicker response, which is quite much (6s-5s, 
7s-4s) and make a big difference in the user experience.


So many thanks for deploying such a good feature.

Also after reflecting on my little harsh reaction on the deployment 
process, I wonder if it is not a language/communication issue


Being a non-native English speaking person I must admit I have no idea 
of the meaning "intrepid" means in "for intrepid beta testers".  It 
seems for Guillaume it means "hey this is badly tested, but use if you 
have patience/courage" which I can accept as a message of a testrelease


Also in my backgroud working in a company making internal deployment of 
software for 4000 internal users, I am used of making a huge difference 
in "ready for Alpha test" and "ready for Beta test", but perhaps my 
reference frame is inappropriate in this case, where perhaps a beta 
functionality means "Software for testing, not ready for release" and 
covering both my distinctions


So I apologize if I used too strong wordings and instead want to 
congratulate you on releasing a good function where you so speedily 
fixed the bug!


Anders



Ori Livneh skrev 2014-09-19 12:18:

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Anders Wennersten 
wrote:
Thanks!, glad you could sort this out and file a bug

But really, I understand from this that this feature was released as a
Beta feature without it ever been tried out on any other project then enwp,
which for me indicate a proper process for Alpha test before release to
beta as been missing...


Sorry, I don't agree! I think the process worked very well just now. You're
not giving yourself enough credit, I'm afraid :)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[John Lewis]

On Friday, 19 September 2014, Todd Allen  wrote:

> This was testing done right. The feature was offered as opt in and clearly
> marked as beta.
>

This genuinely is testing done right. HHVM has been on the beta cluster for
a few months and has been enabled on testwiki by default for a month. In
addition it has been opt-in on production for a week or two already. This
is purely an easy way for people to test as the other way was, sort of
annoying :)

John Lewis


-- 
John Lewis
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Todd Allen]

This was testing done right. The feature was offered as opt in and clearly
marked as beta. A bug was found and quickly fixed. When you're testing beta
software, you have to expect bugs.

We've been quick enough to knock rollouts done poorly or made default with
inadequate testing, and should be. Let's not knock the ones done right.
On Sep 19, 2014 5:24 AM, "Guillaume Paumier"  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:15 PM, MF-Warburg 
> wrote:
> > Why should he give himself credit for your insufficient testing?
>
> "Insufficient" is in the eyes of the beholder :) Beta Features are
> experimental, and Ori's announcement clearly indicated that this
> particular feature was "for intrepid beta testers".
>
> This means that the feature is still being tested, and that people who
> enable it should expect to find bugs, and should report them so they
> can be fixed before the feature is deployed more widely.
>
> This is precisely what happened in this case, so the testing process
> worked as expected. Developers can't find All The Bugs alone, which is
> why they need the help of volunteer testers.
>
> --
> Guillaume Paumier
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Guillaume Paumier]

Hi,

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:15 PM, MF-Warburg  wrote:
> Why should he give himself credit for your insufficient testing?

"Insufficient" is in the eyes of the beholder :) Beta Features are
experimental, and Ori's announcement clearly indicated that this
particular feature was "for intrepid beta testers".

This means that the feature is still being tested, and that people who
enable it should expect to find bugs, and should report them so they
can be fixed before the feature is deployed more widely.

This is precisely what happened in this case, so the testing process
worked as expected. Developers can't find All The Bugs alone, which is
why they need the help of volunteer testers.

-- 
Guillaume Paumier

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[MF-Warburg]

Why should he give himself credit for your insufficient testing?
Am 19.09.2014 12:19 schrieb "Ori Livneh" :

> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Anders Wennersten <
> m...@anderswennersten.se
> > wrote:
>
> > Thanks!, glad you could sort this out and file a bug
> >
> > But really, I understand from this that this feature was released as a
> > Beta feature without it ever been tried out on any other project then
> enwp,
> > which for me indicate a proper process for Alpha test before release to
> > beta as been missing...
> >
>
> Sorry, I don't agree! I think the process worked very well just now. You're
> not giving yourself enough credit, I'm afraid :)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Ori Livneh]

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 3:14 AM, Anders Wennersten  wrote:

> Thanks!, glad you could sort this out and file a bug
>
> But really, I understand from this that this feature was released as a
> Beta feature without it ever been tried out on any other project then enwp,
> which for me indicate a proper process for Alpha test before release to
> beta as been missing...
>

Sorry, I don't agree! I think the process worked very well just now. You're
not giving yourself enough credit, I'm afraid :)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Ori Livneh]

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 2:27 AM, James Alexander 
wrote:

> Bug filed at: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71036


Yep! Good catch. Thanks James, Anders.
I have a patch up at .
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Anders Wennersten]

Thanks!, glad you could sort this out and file a bug

But really, I understand from this that this feature was released as a 
Beta feature without it ever been tried out on any other project then 
enwp, which for me indicate a proper process for Alpha test before 
release to beta as been missing...


The very heated discussions of MV and Visual editor are much related to 
the fact that their quality and functionality at the time of full 
release was more of a state appropriate for a Beta release, The discsion 
has also clearly taken up the need of improvements of the deployment 
process.


It therefore make me concerned (much more than the bug as such involved 
here) to see that WMF still seems to have dysfunctional deployment 
processes.


I do hope to see, very soon,  marked improvements in the software process.

Anders




James Alexander skrev 2014-09-19 11:27:

Bug filed at: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71036

To correct myself: It does NOT appear that the signature time zone is
affected, that is always the local wiki default as defined in
http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/InitialiseSettings.php.txt no matter what you
set in appearances.

James Alexander
Legal and Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 2:02 AM, James Alexander 
wrote:


Yeah, I can confirm this.

It appears that when you turn on HHVM it forces the default time setting
to be UTC, so if you're on a wiki which uses a non UTC default time zone
(usually the time zone of the region most using the language, we do this on
around 200 wikis) suddenly all of the times you are used to seeing (in the
history, recent changes, contributions, signature time stamps etc) change
what time they are showing which gets confusing.

This does not appear to happen if you have 'manually' set your time zone
(only if you are using the local default).

I'm going to file a bug now for it assuming someone else hasn't.

James Alexander
Legal and Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:35 AM, Anders Wennersten <
m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:


It has to do with timezone preferences. All times in latest changes and
in my edits states time two hour wrong

In am not sure what you mean with take timezone into account, I just
clicked into the box as stated in your mail, and then all times changed,
and when I took off the feature all times went back to correct time

Anders

Ori Livneh skrev 2014-09-19 09:46:

  On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Anders Wennersten <

m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:

  I experienced no improved answer time, but all time stamps in Wikipedia

for me become wrong making it impossible to use the feature. I would
call
this problem a thing that should have been found in an alpha text...
Anders

  Hi Anders,

Thanks for trying it out. Could you clarify what you mean? I don't see
anything wrong, but I'm not very observant. If you're comparing the
logged-in and logged-out views, did you remember to take into account the
timezone offset preference (if set)?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[James Alexander]

Bug filed at: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=71036

To correct myself: It does NOT appear that the signature time zone is
affected, that is always the local wiki default as defined in
http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/InitialiseSettings.php.txt no matter what you
set in appearances.

James Alexander
Legal and Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 2:02 AM, James Alexander 
wrote:

> Yeah, I can confirm this.
>
> It appears that when you turn on HHVM it forces the default time setting
> to be UTC, so if you're on a wiki which uses a non UTC default time zone
> (usually the time zone of the region most using the language, we do this on
> around 200 wikis) suddenly all of the times you are used to seeing (in the
> history, recent changes, contributions, signature time stamps etc) change
> what time they are showing which gets confusing.
>
> This does not appear to happen if you have 'manually' set your time zone
> (only if you are using the local default).
>
> I'm going to file a bug now for it assuming someone else hasn't.
>
> James Alexander
> Legal and Community Advocacy
> Wikimedia Foundation
> (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
>
> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:35 AM, Anders Wennersten <
> m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:
>
>> It has to do with timezone preferences. All times in latest changes and
>> in my edits states time two hour wrong
>>
>> In am not sure what you mean with take timezone into account, I just
>> clicked into the box as stated in your mail, and then all times changed,
>> and when I took off the feature all times went back to correct time
>>
>> Anders
>>
>> Ori Livneh skrev 2014-09-19 09:46:
>>
>>  On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Anders Wennersten <
>>> m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:
>>>
>>>  I experienced no improved answer time, but all time stamps in Wikipedia
 for me become wrong making it impossible to use the feature. I would
 call
 this problem a thing that should have been found in an alpha text...
 Anders

  Hi Anders,
>>>
>>> Thanks for trying it out. Could you clarify what you mean? I don't see
>>> anything wrong, but I'm not very observant. If you're comparing the
>>> logged-in and logged-out views, did you remember to take into account the
>>> timezone offset preference (if set)?
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>>
>>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[James Alexander]

Yeah, I can confirm this.

It appears that when you turn on HHVM it forces the default time setting to
be UTC, so if you're on a wiki which uses a non UTC default time zone
(usually the time zone of the region most using the language, we do this on
around 200 wikis) suddenly all of the times you are used to seeing (in the
history, recent changes, contributions, signature time stamps etc) change
what time they are showing which gets confusing.

This does not appear to happen if you have 'manually' set your time zone
(only if you are using the local default).

I'm going to file a bug now for it assuming someone else hasn't.

James Alexander
Legal and Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 1:35 AM, Anders Wennersten  wrote:

> It has to do with timezone preferences. All times in latest changes and in
> my edits states time two hour wrong
>
> In am not sure what you mean with take timezone into account, I just
> clicked into the box as stated in your mail, and then all times changed,
> and when I took off the feature all times went back to correct time
>
> Anders
>
> Ori Livneh skrev 2014-09-19 09:46:
>
>  On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Anders Wennersten <
>> m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:
>>
>>  I experienced no improved answer time, but all time stamps in Wikipedia
>>> for me become wrong making it impossible to use the feature. I would call
>>> this problem a thing that should have been found in an alpha text...
>>> Anders
>>>
>>>  Hi Anders,
>>
>> Thanks for trying it out. Could you clarify what you mean? I don't see
>> anything wrong, but I'm not very observant. If you're comparing the
>> logged-in and logged-out views, did you remember to take into account the
>> timezone offset preference (if set)?
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Anders Wennersten]

It has to do with timezone preferences. All times in latest changes and 
in my edits states time two hour wrong


In am not sure what you mean with take timezone into account, I just 
clicked into the box as stated in your mail, and then all times changed, 
and when I took off the feature all times went back to correct time


Anders

Ori Livneh skrev 2014-09-19 09:46:

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Anders Wennersten <
m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:


I experienced no improved answer time, but all time stamps in Wikipedia
for me become wrong making it impossible to use the feature. I would call
this problem a thing that should have been found in an alpha text...
Anders


Hi Anders,

Thanks for trying it out. Could you clarify what you mean? I don't see
anything wrong, but I'm not very observant. If you're comparing the
logged-in and logged-out views, did you remember to take into account the
timezone offset preference (if set)?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Ori Livneh]

On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Anders Wennersten <
m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:

> I experienced no improved answer time, but all time stamps in Wikipedia
> for me become wrong making it impossible to use the feature. I would call
> this problem a thing that should have been found in an alpha text...
> Anders
>

Hi Anders,

Thanks for trying it out. Could you clarify what you mean? I don't see
anything wrong, but I'm not very observant. If you're comparing the
logged-in and logged-out views, did you remember to take into account the
timezone offset preference (if set)?
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Anders Wennersten]

I experienced no improved answer time, but all time stamps in Wikipedia 
for me become wrong making it impossible to use the feature. I would 
call this problem a thing that should have been found in an alpha text...

Anders



Ori Livneh skrev 2014-09-19 03:39:

(apologies for cross-posting)

I'm happy to announce that HHVM is available on all Wikimedia wikis for
intrepid beta testers. HHVM, you'll recall, is an alternative runtime for
PHP that provides substantial performance improvements over the standard
PHP interpreter. Simply put: HHVM is software that runs on Wikimedia's
servers to make your reading and editing experience faster.

You can read more about HHVM here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/HHVM

* How do I enable HHVM?

You can enable HHVM by opting in to the beta feature. This short animated
gif will show you how: .

Enabling the beta feature will set a special cookie in your browser. Our
servers are configured to route requests bearing this cookie to a pool of
servers that are running HHVM.

* How do I know that it's working?

Opting-in to the beta feature does not change the user interface in any
way. If you like, you can copy the following code snippet to the global.js
subpage of your user page on MetaWiki:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ori.livneh/global.js

If you copy this script to your global.js, the personal bar will be
annotated with the name of the PHP runtime used to generate the page and
the backend response time. It looks like this:

http://people.wikimedia.org/~ori/hhvm_script.png

Edits made by users with HHVM enabled will be tagged with 'HHVM'. The tag
is there as a precaution, to help us clean up if we discover that HHVM is
mangling edits somehow. We don't expect this to happen.

* What sort of performance changes should I expect?

We expect HHVM to have a substantial impact on the time it takes to load,
preview, and save pages.

At the moment, API requests are not being handled by HHVM. Because
VisualEditor uses the API to save articles, opting in to the HHVM beta
feature will not impact the performance of VisualEditor. We hope to have
HHVM handling API requests next week.

* What sort of issues might I encounter?

Most of the bugs that we have encountered so far resulted from minute
differences in how PHP5 and HHVM handle various edge-cases. These bugs
typically cause a MediaWiki error page to be shown.

If you encounter an error, please report it on Bugzilla and tag with it the
'HHVM' keyword.


We're not done yet, but this is an important milestone. The roll-out of
HHVM as a beta feature caps many months of hard work from many developers,
both salaried and volunteer, from the Wikimedia Foundation, Wikimedia
Deutschland, and the broader Wikimedia movement.  I want to take this
opportunity to express my appreciation to the following individuals, listed
in alphabetical order:

Aaron Schulz, Alexandros Kosiaris, Brad Jorsch, Brandon Black, Brett
Simmers, Bryan Davis, Chad Horohoe, Chris Steipp, Erik Bernhardson, Erik
Möller, Faidon Liambotis, Filippo Giunchedi, Giuseppe Lavagetto, Greg
Grossmeier, Jack McBarn, Katie Filbert, Kunal Mehta, Mark Bergsma, Max
Semenik, Niklas Laxström, Rob Lanphier, and Tim Starling.

More good things to come! :)
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[Wikimedia-l] Invitation to beta-test HHVM

[Ori Livneh]

(apologies for cross-posting)

I'm happy to announce that HHVM is available on all Wikimedia wikis for
intrepid beta testers. HHVM, you'll recall, is an alternative runtime for
PHP that provides substantial performance improvements over the standard
PHP interpreter. Simply put: HHVM is software that runs on Wikimedia's
servers to make your reading and editing experience faster.

You can read more about HHVM here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/HHVM

* How do I enable HHVM?

You can enable HHVM by opting in to the beta feature. This short animated
gif will show you how: .

Enabling the beta feature will set a special cookie in your browser. Our
servers are configured to route requests bearing this cookie to a pool of
servers that are running HHVM.

* How do I know that it's working?

Opting-in to the beta feature does not change the user interface in any
way. If you like, you can copy the following code snippet to the global.js
subpage of your user page on MetaWiki:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ori.livneh/global.js

If you copy this script to your global.js, the personal bar will be
annotated with the name of the PHP runtime used to generate the page and
the backend response time. It looks like this:

http://people.wikimedia.org/~ori/hhvm_script.png

Edits made by users with HHVM enabled will be tagged with 'HHVM'. The tag
is there as a precaution, to help us clean up if we discover that HHVM is
mangling edits somehow. We don't expect this to happen.

* What sort of performance changes should I expect?

We expect HHVM to have a substantial impact on the time it takes to load,
preview, and save pages.

At the moment, API requests are not being handled by HHVM. Because
VisualEditor uses the API to save articles, opting in to the HHVM beta
feature will not impact the performance of VisualEditor. We hope to have
HHVM handling API requests next week.

* What sort of issues might I encounter?

Most of the bugs that we have encountered so far resulted from minute
differences in how PHP5 and HHVM handle various edge-cases. These bugs
typically cause a MediaWiki error page to be shown.

If you encounter an error, please report it on Bugzilla and tag with it the
'HHVM' keyword.


We're not done yet, but this is an important milestone. The roll-out of
HHVM as a beta feature caps many months of hard work from many developers,
both salaried and volunteer, from the Wikimedia Foundation, Wikimedia
Deutschland, and the broader Wikimedia movement.  I want to take this
opportunity to express my appreciation to the following individuals, listed
in alphabetical order:

Aaron Schulz, Alexandros Kosiaris, Brad Jorsch, Brandon Black, Brett
Simmers, Bryan Davis, Chad Horohoe, Chris Steipp, Erik Bernhardson, Erik
Möller, Faidon Liambotis, Filippo Giunchedi, Giuseppe Lavagetto, Greg
Grossmeier, Jack McBarn, Katie Filbert, Kunal Mehta, Mark Bergsma, Max
Semenik, Niklas Laxström, Rob Lanphier, and Tim Starling.

More good things to come! :)
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