Histrionics is generally not a productive policy either.
It gets tedious after a while.
Cheers
Peter
- Original Message -
From: "The Cunctator"
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "t
...@kwwilliams.com>
> To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
>
> >
> Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 9:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
>
>
> I've made no claim about "most" long-term editors, but any perusa
Yes, it should be made clear that opt out will always be an acceptable user
preference.
On Aug 6, 2013 7:26 AM, "Todd Allen" wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:35 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
>
> > Todd Allen wrote:
> > >[comments about VisualEditor]
> >
> > Hi Todd.
> >
> > Thank you for writing this e-
Yes, the signal tends to be lost in the noise.
Cheers,
Peter
- Original Message -
From: "Kevin Wayne Williams"
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
Op 201
Op 2013/08/06 13:05, Peter Southwood schreef:
This is Wikipedia, there are always a small number who make a lot of
noise.
I think that's part of the problem: any change hits a nerve *somewhere*,
so even when it's a real problem, observers are likely to dismiss it as
being just more of the sa
heers,
Peter
- Original Message -
From: "Kevin Wayne Williams"
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
I've made no claim about "most" long-term editors,
rs,
Peter
- Original Message - From: "Kevin Wayne Williams"
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
Op 2013/08/06 9:07, Peter Southwood schreef:
Do you have data to bac
,
Cheers,
Peter
- Original Message -
From: "Kevin Wayne Williams"
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
Op 2013/08/06 9:07, Peter Southwood schreef:
Do you have data
, August 06, 2013 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef:
This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out.
Erik and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and
they make reasonable
Do you have data to back up your claims?
Peter
- Original Message -
From: "Kevin Wayne Williams"
To: "Wikimedia Mailing List"
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Visual Editor "temporary" opt-out
Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZM
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams <
kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com> wrote:
> Op 2013/08/06 7:55, Martijn Hoekstra schreef:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams <
>> kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com> wrote:
>>
>>Their argument for
>>> 'opt-out' is based solely upon t
Op 2013/08/06 7:55, Martijn Hoekstra schreef:
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams <
kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com> wrote:
Their argument for
'opt-out' is based solely upon the quality and quantity of testing that it
affords to VE. VE is not a mission-critical feature: while we ha
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Kevin Wayne Williams <
kwwilli...@kwwilliams.com> wrote:
> Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef:
>
> This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out. Erik
>> and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and they make
>> reasonabl
Op 2013/08/05 23:44, MZMcBride schreef:
This leaves us to consider the biggest question: opt-in vs. opt-out.
Erik and James are both quite smart, they are true Wikimedians, and
they make reasonable points about choosing opt-out over opt-in.
This is the point on which we fundamentally disagree. T
On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Richard Farmbrough wrote:
> Apparently important. I am aware, as probably everyone is, that this is
> the first most obvious step to make article editing more accessible, and
> address certain inclusiveness goals. I am also aware that there is no data
> to suppor
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 8:35 PM, MZMcBride wrote:
> Todd Allen wrote:
> >[comments about VisualEditor]
>
> Hi Todd.
>
> Thank you for writing this e-mail. Unfortunately I don't have a
> particularly unified reply to write here, but I can offer five thoughts.
>
> Regarding the specific issue you me
Apparently important. I am aware, as probably everyone is, that this is
the first most obvious step to make article editing more accessible, and
address certain inclusiveness goals. I am also aware that there is no
data to support the theory that a visual editor means more inclusive
editing,
I very rarely want to follow up a post to say "yes, this", but I think Max
has hit the nail on the head here.
One other issue around 'heavy-handed' is that this is in part perception. I
didn't feel the deployment heavy-handed, but then it did not cause me more
than minor technical annoyance, I had
David Gerard wrote:
>That is, the arguments tend towards saying "you can't philosophically
>prove there aren't supporters!" This is unconvincing for a number of
>reasons.
This is lazy, but I'm going to quote myself.
---
VisualEditor is a big project that didn't simply happen in a vacuum. The
Wiki
On 6 August 2013 07:44, MZMcBride wrote:
> That said, this doubt is tempered by the _enormous_ selection bias we see
> in the on-wiki discussion. Namely that (a) the discussion has only been
> advertised to logged-in users, and (b) that nearly everyone participating
> in the on-wiki discussion is
Kevin Wayne Williams wrote:
>Op 2013/08/05 19:35, MZMcBride schreef:
>> Finally, and somewhat related to the complaints page, I've been
>> thinking lately about the British and the Irish and the nature of
>> insurgencies. I believe the VisualEditor team is now viewed by many on
>> the English Wikip
Op 2013/08/05 19:35, MZMcBride schreef:
Finally, and somewhat related to the complaints page, I've been
thinking lately about the British and the Irish and the nature of
insurgencies. I believe the VisualEditor team is now viewed by many on
the English Wikipedia (and other wikis) as an occupyin
Todd Allen wrote:
>[comments about VisualEditor]
Hi Todd.
Thank you for writing this e-mail. Unfortunately I don't have a
particularly unified reply to write here, but I can offer five thoughts.
Regarding the specific issue you mention (the labeling of the user
preference), I think there should
On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 7:07 PM, Todd Allen wrote:
> I realize this was brought up a couple of weeks ago and I apologize for the
> late response on this, but it was just recently brought to my attention
> that the VE opt-out was intended to be only temporary.
>
> Firstly: Currently, as per the over
I realize this was brought up a couple of weeks ago and I apologize for the
late response on this, but it was just recently brought to my attention
that the VE opt-out was intended to be only temporary.
Firstly: Currently, as per the overwhelming consensus on en.wikipedia at
least, VE needs to be
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