Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote: Next time someone balks at my day rate, I'm just going to say I need a new Ferrari and twenty new Hugo Boss suits a year or you'll feel the force of a discrimination case at the employment tribunal. And I'll remind you to solve all opened tickets. You're welcome to speak up after finished. Have a nice day. Night. s. :-P g ps: Ferrari? Suits? What planet is this? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
Folks, please, stop with this irony and let's move the office from San Francisco to Brazil. *Then* we can begin to speak about suits, ferraris and being surronded by pretty girls with a WMF wage. We would also have nice fruits and the best beaches. Tom On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Peter Gervai grin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote: Next time someone balks at my day rate, I'm just going to say I need a new Ferrari and twenty new Hugo Boss suits a year or you'll feel the force of a discrimination case at the employment tribunal. And I'll remind you to solve all opened tickets. You're welcome to speak up after finished. Have a nice day. Night. s. :-P g ps: Ferrari? Suits? What planet is this? -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
that would be a brilliant idea :) where can one vote for this? On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Everton Zanella Alvarenga t...@wikimedia.org wrote: Folks, please, stop with this irony and let's move the office from San Francisco to Brazil. *Then* we can begin to speak about suits, ferraris and being surronded by pretty girls with a WMF wage. We would also have nice fruits and the best beaches. Tom On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Peter Gervai grin...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 2:32 AM, Tom Morris t...@tommorris.org wrote: Next time someone balks at my day rate, I'm just going to say I need a new Ferrari and twenty new Hugo Boss suits a year or you'll feel the force of a discrimination case at the employment tribunal. And I'll remind you to solve all opened tickets. You're welcome to speak up after finished. Have a nice day. Night. s. :-P g ps: Ferrari? Suits? What planet is this? -- Everton Zanella Alvarenga (also Tom) A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
Leslie Carr wrote: Though I do feel that the WMF salary is discriminating against my right to fly first class everywhere. My champagne glass won't refill itself, you know! Turns out, I was wrong!! [...] Thanks to a generous anonymous benefactor :) :D These photos were adorable. Thank you for sharing them. (Though I did feel a slight pang in my heart when I remembered that S.F. had stolen Kat and Greg from us.) MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
Hallo MZMcBride, I will always strongly agree with you and support any decision that you make, thank-you very much. May GOD Bless You Always! Best Regards, Claudius Erwin Mulialim Owner Q-Tech Computer - Ruteng (CV. Montée Vista Media Vision) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2013 18:00:45 -0500 From: z...@mzmcbride.com To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market Leslie Carr wrote: Though I do feel that the WMF salary is discriminating against my right to fly first class everywhere. My champagne glass won't refill itself, you know! Turns out, I was wrong!! [...] Thanks to a generous anonymous benefactor :) :D These photos were adorable. Thank you for sharing them. (Though I did feel a slight pang in my heart when I remembered that S.F. had stolen Kat and Greg from us.) MZMcBride ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Leslie Carr lc...@wikimedia.org wrote: Though I do feel that the WMF salary is discriminating against my right to fly first class everywhere. My champagne glass won't refill itself, you know! Do you accept donations? g ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Peter Gervai grin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Leslie Carr lc...@wikimedia.org wrote: Though I do feel that the WMF salary is discriminating against my right to fly first class everywhere. My champagne glass won't refill itself, you know! Do you accept donations? Cash, paypal, and of course bottles of champagne ;) g ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Leslie Carr Wikimedia Foundation AS 14907, 43821 http://as14907.peeringdb.com/ ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
Though I do feel that the WMF salary is discriminating against my right to fly first class everywhere. My champagne glass won't refill itself, you know! Turns out, I was wrong!! https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mumm_Napa_and_Glasses_2013-03-08.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_Staffers_drinking_Champagne_3.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_Staffers_Drinking_Champagne_2013-03-08.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sue_and_WMF_Staffers_drinking_champagne_2013-03-08.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sue_with_Champagne_bottle_2013-03-08.jpg Thanks to a generous anonymous benefactor :) -- Leslie Carr Wikimedia Foundation AS 14907, 43821 http://as14907.peeringdb.com/ ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Leslie Carr lc...@wikimedia.org wrote: On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Peter Gervai grin...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Leslie Carr lc...@wikimedia.org wrote: Though I do feel that the WMF salary is discriminating against my right to fly first class everywhere. My champagne glass won't refill itself, you know! Do you accept donations? Cash, paypal, and of course bottles of champagne ;) Bitcoin? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
On Thursday, 7 March 2013 at 18:43, Leslie Carr wrote: Talking about my salary isn't disparaging the company -- as referenced later, in the US employers can't prevent folks from talking about their salaries. Though I do feel that the WMF salary is discriminating against my right to fly first class everywhere. My champagne glass won't refill itself, you know! Next time someone balks at my day rate, I'm just going to say I need a new Ferrari and twenty new Hugo Boss suits a year or you'll feel the force of a discrimination case at the employment tribunal. -- Tom Morris http://tommorris.org/ ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
Hi james, (renamed thread to not distract from NDA discussion) Your concerns have been noted, several times. But I do want to make sure you (and everyone else) realise that there is no FACT like the one that you mention. fact that the Foundation's policy of paying below market salary discriminates against potential hires with large expenses such as kids in college or a mortgage from 2007? because a) there is no such policy. There are several areas where WMF pays market salary or more. Please don't create a myth. I have talked to our recruiters and they confirm this. Stating it as fact does not help your case or your credibility. In my experience WMF compensation and other benefits is well thought about and choices have been made (you might not agree with their outcome but they are being made, they don't happen to us) b) you could argue that any salary level discriminates against people who need more. Just because I chose to have three kids (who will hopefully end up going to college if they want to do so) and choose to live where I want to live does not mean someone who offers me a salary which is unable to support my choices is discriminating against me… I live by the choices I make… Finally I find the idea of restraining people to talk about salary almost comical in the WMF sense… as I find the idea of any substantial discussion amongst WMF employees being restrained by a document unrealistic. I am grateful that we have enough critical employees who are willing to voice their opinion on pretty much everything. While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I think that its time to stop spreading a myth. If you do insist on tackling the issue, please base yourself on facts and not small sets of data an generalisations. I don't have all the fact either, but I know enough to know that your generalising statements are incorrect, so please stop making them. Jan-Bart On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:51 AM, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to know more about the non-disparagement clause which multiple people have stated that the Foundation's NDA includes. In particular, does it forbid employees from discussing the fact that the Foundation's policy of paying below market salary discriminates against potential hires with large expenses such as kids in college or a mortgage from 2007? Does it forbid employees from discussing the fact that the only evidence ever produced by Foundation employees in support of that policy is a non-peer reviewed popular press book which is not only contradicted by all of the recent secondary sources on the subject, but the interpretation of which is contradicted by the author of the book himself? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
Jan-Bart de Vreede wrote: ... I do want to make sure you (and everyone else) realise that there is no FACT like the one that you mention. fact that the Foundation's policy of paying below market salary discriminates against potential hires with large expenses such as kids in college or a mortgage from 2007? because a) there is no such policy So would you disagree with Erik Moeller's statement of 29 December 2012? [WMF compensation is] below some companies that are similar to us, notably Mozilla which is structured as a for-profit owned by a non-profit and pays market-level compensation (sans equity). Wikimedia is above most non-profits that do tech work, and there's a fair bit of room to grow compensation-wise for an entry-level hire. It's not what people could make elsewhere, and that's understood by folks who make it through the process. -- http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2012-December/123272.html Finally I find the idea of restraining people to talk about salary almost comical Would you post the text of the non-disparagement clause referred to at http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/April_5-7,_2008#Non-disparagement_and_confidentiality_agreement and http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Water_coolerdiff=19657oldid=19653 please, so we can see exactly what it says? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 8:46 AM, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote: Jan-Bart de Vreede wrote: Finally I find the idea of restraining people to talk about salary almost comical Would you post the text of the non-disparagement clause referred to at http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/April_5-7,_2008#Non-disparagement_and_confidentiality_agreement and http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Water_coolerdiff=19657oldid=19653 please, so we can see exactly what it says? At least in the U.S., per the National Labor Relations Act, employees are always allowed to discuss wages without fear of reprisal from their employers. So even if such a clause were to exist prohibiting such discussion, it would have no legal effect. -Madman/ea ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
While a number of my friends are employed by WMF and I heard no one to complain about salary or working conditions, it would be good to have annual report of salaries and other benefits of WMF employees compared to the siruation in the other similar and some not so similar organizations. I can guess what are the advantages and disadvantages of being employed by WMF, but it would be good not to speculate. On Mar 7, 2013 12:59 PM, Jan-Bart de Vreede jdevre...@wikimedia.org wrote: Hi james, (renamed thread to not distract from NDA discussion) Your concerns have been noted, several times. But I do want to make sure you (and everyone else) realise that there is no FACT like the one that you mention. fact that the Foundation's policy of paying below market salary discriminates against potential hires with large expenses such as kids in college or a mortgage from 2007? because a) there is no such policy. There are several areas where WMF pays market salary or more. Please don't create a myth. I have talked to our recruiters and they confirm this. Stating it as fact does not help your case or your credibility. In my experience WMF compensation and other benefits is well thought about and choices have been made (you might not agree with their outcome but they are being made, they don't happen to us) b) you could argue that any salary level discriminates against people who need more. Just because I chose to have three kids (who will hopefully end up going to college if they want to do so) and choose to live where I want to live does not mean someone who offers me a salary which is unable to support my choices is discriminating against me… I live by the choices I make… Finally I find the idea of restraining people to talk about salary almost comical in the WMF sense… as I find the idea of any substantial discussion amongst WMF employees being restrained by a document unrealistic. I am grateful that we have enough critical employees who are willing to voice their opinion on pretty much everything. While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I think that its time to stop spreading a myth. If you do insist on tackling the issue, please base yourself on facts and not small sets of data an generalisations. I don't have all the fact either, but I know enough to know that your generalising statements are incorrect, so please stop making them. Jan-Bart On Mar 7, 2013, at 12:51 AM, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote: I'd like to know more about the non-disparagement clause which multiple people have stated that the Foundation's NDA includes. In particular, does it forbid employees from discussing the fact that the Foundation's policy of paying below market salary discriminates against potential hires with large expenses such as kids in college or a mortgage from 2007? Does it forbid employees from discussing the fact that the only evidence ever produced by Foundation employees in support of that policy is a non-peer reviewed popular press book which is not only contradicted by all of the recent secondary sources on the subject, but the interpretation of which is contradicted by the author of the book himself? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
No one is force to, or have a right to work for the WMF. Like any other organisation, for-profit or otherwise, an organisation determines what it can affords and wants to pay for a position. Similarly, a potential employee gets to decides whether the proposed compensation is acceptable to them based on their experience, what the job would be, and their personal circumstance. So, what's the problem? KTC -- Katie Chan Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the author is associated with or employed by. Experience is a good school but the fees are high. - Heinrich Heine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
The funny thing about all of this is that it seems to be non-employees who are very concerned about these things and no employees are actually whistle blowing or commenting. I think that says something about how truly non-problematic this is. And I'm sure if employees did have some problems, this mailing list and the participants would probably be the last place they'd take it. Sarah Sent from my iPhone On Mar 7, 2013, at 8:11 AM, Katie Chan k...@ktchan.info wrote: No one is force to, or have a right to work for the WMF. Like any other organisation, for-profit or otherwise, an organisation determines what it can affords and wants to pay for a position. Similarly, a potential employee gets to decides whether the proposed compensation is acceptable to them based on their experience, what the job would be, and their personal circumstance. So, what's the problem? KTC -- Katie Chan Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the author is associated with or employed by. Experience is a good school but the fees are high. - Heinrich Heine ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
In fact, not one single non-anonymous person has ever said anything different than what Marc just posted (as far as I know). James Salsman is alone in his crusade; the people he believes he is fighting for evidently don't desire his help. My suspicion is that this all goes back to his attempt to convince the Foundation to pay administrators, and perhaps editors, for their efforts. In June he argued on this list about his survey, and accused Foundation employees of lying to him and others about the research policy. In October, he hinted that he had conducted an additional survey that revealed a substantial proportion of Wikipedia administrators are living in poverty; while he refused to reveal this data or how he conducted his survey until some undefined legal issues are resolved, he used it to protest the decision of the FDC to not permit funding to individual editors. Between that time and the end of the year, in addition to asking the Foundation to advise the Secretary of Defense to invalidate patents, James Salsman accused Foundation employees of lying to the public and to the Board about fundraising and proposed a resolution of the Board that would restore funding to various programs that, in some cases, result in salaries to some editors. Again in February he raised the issue of providing compensation to impoverished long-term contributors, Wikinews contributors and professional fact-checkers. On his linked mission to pay editors and improve the pay of junior Foundation staff, James is virtually alone. In the 8 or so months that he has been posting to Wikimedia mailing lists, rarely if ever has anyone expressed support for either effort. And yet he is not deterred. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
Dear Jan-Bart, Hey, I think that you are the dumbest and most foolish people in this world! Since you already know that working for a nonprofit foundation or charity that absolutely should not be expecting a salary sufficient in terms of value! Because this job is having the social goals of humanity and is not intended for business, so it is proper you should not expect yourself to be paid according to the salary standardization of benchmark government regulatory policy. For jobs that have a social purpose of humanity like this, we should not be so demanding, but we first have to love the job ought to give all of the skills and talents that we have for this foundation, believe that sooner or later will certainly all of the goodness and your efforts will be avenged by God through His wonderful ways. May GOD Bless You Always! Best Regards, Claudius Erwin Mulialim Owner Q-Tech Computer - Ruteng (CV. Montée Vista Media Vision) in Ruteng - Flores, East Nusa Tenggara, Indonesia. - Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 10:43:06 -0800 From: lc...@wikimedia.org To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 5:46 AM, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote: Jan-Bart de Vreede wrote: ... I do want to make sure you (and everyone else) realise that there is no FACT like the one that you mention. fact that the Foundation's policy of paying below market salary discriminates against potential hires with large expenses such as kids in college or a mortgage from 2007? because a) there is no such policy So would you disagree with Erik Moeller's statement of 29 December 2012? [WMF compensation is] below some companies that are similar to us, notably Mozilla which is structured as a for-profit owned by a non-profit and pays market-level compensation (sans equity). Wikimedia is above most non-profits that do tech work, and there's a fair bit of room to grow compensation-wise for an entry-level hire. It's not what people could make elsewhere, and that's understood by folks who make it through the process. -- http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2012-December/123272.html Finally I find the idea of restraining people to talk about salary almost comical Would you post the text of the non-disparagement clause referred to at http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/April_5-7,_2008#Non-disparagement_and_confidentiality_agreement Talking about my salary isn't disparaging the company -- as referenced later, in the US employers can't prevent folks from talking about their salaries. Though I do feel that the WMF salary is discriminating against my right to fly first class everywhere. My champagne glass won't refill itself, you know! Leslie and http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Water_coolerdiff=19657oldid=19653 please, so we can see exactly what it says? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Leslie Carr Wikimedia Foundation AS 14907, 43821 http://as14907.peeringdb.com/ ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market
Can I ask that we not call people dumb and foolish? Argue the idea, not the person. (And in this case, I think Jan-Bart agrees with you, so I'm not sure where that came from). pb ___ Philippe Beaudette Director, Community Advocacy Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. 415-839-6885, x 6643 phili...@wikimedia.org On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 7:20 PM, Erwin Mulialim erwin.mulia...@outlook.comwrote: Dear Jan-Bart, Hey, I think that you are the dumbest and most foolish people in this world! Since you already know that working for a nonprofit foundation or charity that absolutely should not be expecting a salary sufficient in terms of value! Because this job is having the social goals of humanity and is not intended for business, so it is proper you should not expect yourself to be paid according to the salary standardization of benchmark government regulatory policy. For jobs that have a social purpose of humanity like this, we should not be so demanding, but we first have to love the job ought to give all of the skills and talents that we have for this foundation, believe that sooner or later will certainly all of the goodness and your efforts will be avenged by God through His wonderful ways. May GOD Bless You Always! Best Regards, Claudius Erwin Mulialim Owner Q-Tech Computer - Ruteng (CV. Montée Vista Media Vision) in Ruteng - Flores, East Nusa Tenggara, Indonesia. - Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 10:43:06 -0800 From: lc...@wikimedia.org To: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] fiction: WMF policy of paying less than market On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 5:46 AM, James Salsman jsals...@gmail.com wrote: Jan-Bart de Vreede wrote: ... I do want to make sure you (and everyone else) realise that there is no FACT like the one that you mention. fact that the Foundation's policy of paying below market salary discriminates against potential hires with large expenses such as kids in college or a mortgage from 2007? because a) there is no such policy So would you disagree with Erik Moeller's statement of 29 December 2012? [WMF compensation is] below some companies that are similar to us, notably Mozilla which is structured as a for-profit owned by a non-profit and pays market-level compensation (sans equity). Wikimedia is above most non-profits that do tech work, and there's a fair bit of room to grow compensation-wise for an entry-level hire. It's not what people could make elsewhere, and that's understood by folks who make it through the process. -- http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2012-December/123272.html Finally I find the idea of restraining people to talk about salary almost comical Would you post the text of the non-disparagement clause referred to at http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/April_5-7,_2008#Non-disparagement_and_confidentiality_agreement Talking about my salary isn't disparaging the company -- as referenced later, in the US employers can't prevent folks from talking about their salaries. Though I do feel that the WMF salary is discriminating against my right to fly first class everywhere. My champagne glass won't refill itself, you know! Leslie and http://uk.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Water_coolerdiff=19657oldid=19653 please, so we can see exactly what it says? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Leslie Carr Wikimedia Foundation AS 14907, 43821 http://as14907.peeringdb.com/ ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
