Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
I'm not exactly sure how a lot of these things work, but would it be possible to allow open editing in only the talk namespaces, but not anywhere else? That way the members could have their private space, and the peanut gallery is kept from interfering but can still participate to a limited degree. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Adam Jenkins adam.jenk...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Peter! It's been raised, and I think it is still generally seen as a really good idea. However, at the moment we've been focused on some priorities related to privacy policies and PayPal, so we haven't been focused on this topic yet. I'll see if I can add it to the agenda for the next meeting, at least for discussion, and I'll report back. :) Adam. On 3 December 2010 09:53, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I was just wondering if anything happened on this front? - It'd be great to somehow open some aspects of WMAU up - ideally as soon as possible! - are the committee discussing things further? (if so, please just consider doing something - or at least discussing openly :-) - pretty much any model which opens things in any way would be a step forward in my view, and I think encouraging and facilitating greater engagement (which a more open wiki would help, in my view) is very important, cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
Hi Michelle, We could certainly try that as a matter of policy - as in, simply communicating that rule clearly to all comers - I'd happily be prepared to do some of the legwork in explaining how that works to would be editors. Probably it would work better in tandem with continuing the restriction on editing to registered accounts - and only registering accounts upon application - what do you think of those restrictions? cheers, Peter, PM. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Michelle Gallaway mgalla...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not exactly sure how a lot of these things work, but would it be possible to allow open editing in only the talk namespaces, but not anywhere else? That way the members could have their private space, and the peanut gallery is kept from interfering but can still participate to a limited degree. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Adam Jenkins adam.jenk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter! It's been raised, and I think it is still generally seen as a really good idea. However, at the moment we've been focused on some priorities related to privacy policies and PayPal, so we haven't been focused on this topic yet. I'll see if I can add it to the agenda for the next meeting, at least for discussion, and I'll report back. :) Adam. On 3 December 2010 09:53, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I was just wondering if anything happened on this front? - It'd be great to somehow open some aspects of WMAU up - ideally as soon as possible! - are the committee discussing things further? (if so, please just consider doing something - or at least discussing openly :-) - pretty much any model which opens things in any way would be a step forward in my view, and I think encouraging and facilitating greater engagement (which a more open wiki would help, in my view) is very important, cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
I was more interested in seeing if this could be enforced by technology, maybe so that unconfirmed users simply didn't get an edit button on other name spaces. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 8:08 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.comwrote: Hi Michelle, We could certainly try that as a matter of policy - as in, simply communicating that rule clearly to all comers - I'd happily be prepared to do some of the legwork in explaining how that works to would be editors. Probably it would work better in tandem with continuing the restriction on editing to registered accounts - and only registering accounts upon application - what do you think of those restrictions? cheers, Peter, PM. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Michelle Gallaway mgalla...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not exactly sure how a lot of these things work, but would it be possible to allow open editing in only the talk namespaces, but not anywhere else? That way the members could have their private space, and the peanut gallery is kept from interfering but can still participate to a limited degree. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Adam Jenkins adam.jenk...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Peter! It's been raised, and I think it is still generally seen as a really good idea. However, at the moment we've been focused on some priorities related to privacy policies and PayPal, so we haven't been focused on this topic yet. I'll see if I can add it to the agenda for the next meeting, at least for discussion, and I'll report back. :) Adam. On 3 December 2010 09:53, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I was just wondering if anything happened on this front? - It'd be great to somehow open some aspects of WMAU up - ideally as soon as possible! - are the committee discussing things further? (if so, please just consider doing something - or at least discussing openly :-) - pretty much any model which opens things in any way would be a step forward in my view, and I think encouraging and facilitating greater engagement (which a more open wiki would help, in my view) is very important, cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:04 PM, Michelle Gallaway mgalla...@gmail.com wrote: I was more interested in seeing if this could be enforced by technology, maybe so that unconfirmed users simply didn't get an edit button on other name spaces. This would be my preference as well, at least for the time being. It can be enforced by technology as it is a standard part of the software. There are quite a few aspects that have not been adequately discussed yet. Everyone on the Wiki is currently a member, so the wiki falls under the Rules of the organisation, including how disputes should be resolved, and every edit is by a member whose name can be obtained from the register, which means JoePublic can see who said something and take them to court. If we are going to allow non-members to edit, we need : a) different admins Currently the sysops are Sarah and myself. Until someone puts up their hand to be an admin, open editing proposals will likely be rejected by the committee. The committee already put many hours into WMF projects and WMAU committee work, and I don't think any committee member wants to manage the wiki as a 'project'. OTOH, we would love for members to run the wiki as a project, provided they manage it as an _official_ website, which does require more professional behaviour of participants and admins. b) to consider what happens when non-members and members have a dispute. We don't need to be a strict policy that covers all situations, but we do need to have thought about it, and have an appropriate way of escalating it. I think the simplest approach is for one member (again, not a committee member) to be appointed as a 'bureaucrat' (crat), and they make the final decision on any dispute involving a non-member that doesn't resolve itself. c) identify, assess and prepare for legal risks We do not have the ISP immunity that is available to the WMF, so someone needs to look at the Australian laws that are applicable to us. We would need to enable revision deletion in order to swiftly deal with any libelous content and privacy complaints. d) decide on a username policy We run a separate wiki from WMF, and our non-member participation is most likely to be from WMF contributors. How do we confirm that wmau user JoeBloggs is wmf user JoeBloggs, in order to prevent silliness? I think the 'crat should be responsible for confirming the identity of new non-members accounts. This confirmation could be _before_ the account is confirmed in the 'ConfirmAccount' extension which we currently use. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmAccount Or the account could have a permission set afterwards. The permission would have no actual effect, other than recording that the given identity has been verified. On this point, new user accounts are often privacy violations and libel. It is not uncommon for a libelous username to go unnoticed for years because it is written in a script we don't understand and because it slips under the radar. Somewhat related, heaven forbid, how would we deal with a member who creates a second account which is assumed to be operated by a non-member, and therefore operating free of the organisations Rules? Are there any other potential problems we should discuss before we start open editing? Another option is for us to host our official wiki on the WMF servers, as a 'project' which I assume means the stewards can step in and perform oversight checkuser when required. -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
Hi all, I was just wondering if anything happened on this front? - It'd be great to somehow open some aspects of WMAU up - ideally as soon as possible! - are the committee discussing things further? (if so, please just consider doing something - or at least discussing openly :-) - pretty much any model which opens things in any way would be a step forward in my view, and I think encouraging and facilitating greater engagement (which a more open wiki would help, in my view) is very important, cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 11:43 AM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: The committee has talked a lot about allowing non-members to edit the wiki, and I would love a good proposal, but the one that privatemusings put up was an empty proposal. Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. I haven't read the whole thread so please excuse me if some of my findings are redundant with things discussed here or in the past. I want to share two experiences from other chapters. (and this is also a tl;dr kind of email, sorry ;)) 1) Wikimedia France. Wikimedia France has a member-only wiki, which since its opening a year and a half or so back, has seen increasing activity from the members to promote free knowledge and of course the association. This wiki is associated to a member-only mailing list, which serves as a relay for those people who are not so much into wiki editing (yes, there are lost of those). The question of opening the wiki and list to outside perusal and participation has been asked many times. Most interestingly, the people that were rather against are people who are not the most active on the Wikimedia Projects but have proved invaluable to the association. They mentionned the fact that being in a private sphere has actually allowed them to speak up, which they would not have done on a public mailing list (due to their outside-wikimedia status or whatever. Information and call for particpations are relayed on a public wikimedia-fr list, which is open to subscription from anyone. 2) Wikimedia Deutschland Wikimedia Deutschland has opened very recently a forum wiki for anyone who wishes. A members-only section has also been created, which is as of now still a rather empty shell, we wanted to see if the need would arise for Member-only communication and exchanges. It's a bit early to say so, but that section had been called for by members. I just took a quick look at the list of registered users, 90% are members, 5% are people who are related in some way or other to Wikimedia Deutschland (the wiki serves also as a coordinating platform for a Project Wikipedia in Schools) and 5% are people who are not members. The most active participants are members. Of course, those are far away examples, I don't know how Australians tick ;) So the questions I would ask is: - what prevents anyone interested in participating in Wikimedia Australia's activities to actually become a member of the association? **if it's money, I'm pretty sure there is always the possibility of asking for a waiver for the membership fee to anyone who can't afford them, for example. If not, well, that might be an option to consider. - Who wants to participate that is not a member? My answer to that is: **trolls: ie. people who just are there to disrupt and question every single activity/action of the association without going through the trouble of supporting that same association by becoming members. (been there, seen that). **People who want to look at what happens before they actually become member. In which case this means that the relay to public platforms about the Association activities is not doing its job, and this is the point that should be addressed, regardless of whether the wiki is open or not (because people who really want to get involved will just do that, and those who hesitate are not the people whose opinion will be swayed by having access to a member wiki, which they probably won't visit anyway). Personally, I find the idea of a members-only wiki appealing and interesting, because my experience is that it allows for more openness in the way people work. This said, Wikimedia Deutschland's example shows that a wiki open to all is rather de facto a members-only wiki in the end, so an open to all wiki is not inherently a bad thing. Please take this as examples and sharing of experience. That's all it is. Cheers, Delphine -- @notafish NB. This gmail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails will get lost. Intercultural musings: Ceci n'est pas une endive - http://blog.notanendive.org Photos with simple eyes: notaphoto - http://photo.notafish.org ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
Sorry folks. That page has been deleted. Wikimedia Australia has been working on a process for proposals, and this proposal did not follow the process. The committee has talked a lot about allowing non-members to edit the wiki, and I would love a good proposal, but the one that privatemusings put up was an empty proposal. Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've written a proposal on the official wiki to allow registration, and hence editing, by non-members. It's here; http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:Open_WMAU_Wiki_editing I (obviously!) support such a move, and feel it would bring considerable benefits to us as an organisation. There are various models out there (some approaching 10 years old) which demonstrate the success in principle of an open editing model, and I hope you might agree that we should give it a go :-) cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
oops, my apologies for not having followed the process I'll do my best to read up on how to follow it properly, and then give it another go. The page basically just suggested that WMAU should allow registration, and therefore editing, by anyone so minded - part of my rationale is that we have a bit of a problem with engagement and participation - hence asking for folk currently disengaged, and non-participative to pipe up mightn't be the only way forward ;-) The bottom line is essentially one of principle, and our current (apparent) position does continue to surprise (and yeah - amuse a wee bit) - meanwhile, as I said, I'll redo my homework on how to do a proposal and avoid page deletion. cheers, Peter, PM. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:43 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry folks. That page has been deleted. Wikimedia Australia has been working on a process for proposals, and this proposal did not follow the process. The committee has talked a lot about allowing non-members to edit the wiki, and I would love a good proposal, but the one that privatemusings put up was an empty proposal. Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've written a proposal on the official wiki to allow registration, and hence editing, by non-members. It's here; http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:Open_WMAU_Wiki_editing I (obviously!) support such a move, and feel it would bring considerable benefits to us as an organisation. There are various models out there (some approaching 10 years old) which demonstrate the success in principle of an open editing model, and I hope you might agree that we should give it a go :-) cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
ps. I think one of the key aspects to the proposals process that I bungled on is that an idea should have the support of at least 2 members before being formally raised on the wiki could I ask if any member out there is minded to support the notion? Hope so! cheers, Peter, PM. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:05 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: oops, my apologies for not having followed the process I'll do my best to read up on how to follow it properly, and then give it another go. The page basically just suggested that WMAU should allow registration, and therefore editing, by anyone so minded - part of my rationale is that we have a bit of a problem with engagement and participation - hence asking for folk currently disengaged, and non-participative to pipe up mightn't be the only way forward ;-) The bottom line is essentially one of principle, and our current (apparent) position does continue to surprise (and yeah - amuse a wee bit) - meanwhile, as I said, I'll redo my homework on how to do a proposal and avoid page deletion. cheers, Peter, PM. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:43 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry folks. That page has been deleted. Wikimedia Australia has been working on a process for proposals, and this proposal did not follow the process. The committee has talked a lot about allowing non-members to edit the wiki, and I would love a good proposal, but the one that privatemusings put up was an empty proposal. Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, I've written a proposal on the official wiki to allow registration, and hence editing, by non-members. It's here; http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/Proposal:Open_WMAU_Wiki_editing I (obviously!) support such a move, and feel it would bring considerable benefits to us as an organisation. There are various models out there (some approaching 10 years old) which demonstrate the success in principle of an open editing model, and I hope you might agree that we should give it a go :-) cheers, Peter, PM. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:35 PM, private musings thepmacco...@gmail.com wrote: I've written a proposal on the official wiki to allow registration, and hence editing, by non-members. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:20 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: that is not the process PM, and the process is not yet public so please stop discussing it here. Would a separate wiki be a better idea? That way the committee wouldn't need to worry about the unofficial content being confused for anything they'd approved. And the community wouldn't need to worry about their pages being removed for being in violation of a non-public policy they weren't aware of. Angela ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Angela bees...@gmail.com wrote: Would a separate wiki be a better idea? That way the committee wouldn't need to worry about the unofficial content being confused for anything they'd approved. And the community wouldn't need to worry about their pages being removed for being in violation of a non-public policy they weren't aware of. Angela (As a non member) I think that would be pointless and possibly worse, It seems stupid to spread content access two installs just for that reasons, We could use multipul namespaces then protect a namespace from editing[1] to anyone apart from a members group. -Peachey [1]. http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Preventing_access#Restrict_editing_of_an_entire_namespace ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. I'm not engaging in this debate again. It's been argued to death already. It's ridiculously obvious to me why it WMAU should be editable, and the fact that it still isn't tells me that WMAU is either moving at a glacial pace or is being run by people who simply do not share my values. Peter Halasz User:Pengo ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 8:51 AM, Peter Halasz qub...@gmail.com wrote: Non members can explain here why they want to be able to edit our wiki; we are listening. I'm not engaging in this debate again. It's been argued to death already. It's ridiculously obvious to me why it WMAU should be editable, and the fact that it still isn't tells me that WMAU is either moving at a glacial pace or is being run by people who simply do not share my values. I agree it has been discussed to death. Almost everyone agrees that it should be open, so discussing that again is pointless. However use-cases are not pointless; knowing what non-members what to do *now* means we focus on permitting those things *now*. If non-members just want to comment on proposals, we can work out how to allow talk page access. If non-members want to develop proposals, we can give accounts to non-members we trust for this purpose. A more basic question is why are non-members still non-members? If it is cost, perhaps we should change our membership fees. In the past there has been disagreement about how open our website should be, and how we administrate being open. Being 'open' introduces new problems and new workloads, and we need to have a solution to those problems. My biggest concern is that open editing is going to be left for the committee to administrate. The committee should not be doing this; it will result in us being dragged to court. The membership has not shown a great deal of interest in helping build the wiki over the past few years. If a member steps up and _commits_ to be the 'crat' / 'webmaster', and that person asks for open editing, the committee *will* vote on it. Another option is for the committee to hand over the responsibility of managing the website to one of the ordinary members, and to allow them to manage it how they see fit. Do we want new non-member accounts to continue to go via ConfirmAccount? [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmAccount IMO, the answer is yes; we definitely do not want unhappy Wikipedia subjects to be allowed to have accounts and be able to rant on our website. If so, what is our policy on who can have accounts and their usernames? Who is going to decide what content is acceptable or not? These questions are just the tip of the iceberg. -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
Hi, The part I'm not sure of is what parts of the Wiki people would wish to change. There are sections which clearly can't be publicly editable, such as the rules and minutes, but I'm assuming that there are other sections - perhaps events? - which would be of interest to non-members for editing. I don't have a philosophical problem with opening it up, but given the complexities (in particular the need to protect a large portion of the site), I'd like to see which areas are intended to be developed, as it might make it easier to justify or work out a direction to take. Adam. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
A more basic question is why are non-members still non-members? I have not renewed my membership partly over this issue. (As I said previously: it shows WMAU is either moving at a glacial pace or is being run by people who simply do not share my values.) My biggest concern is that open editing is going to be left for the committee to administrate. If the discussion has really moved from why but to how, then can I suggest using flagged revisions? Seems to be perfectly suited, and would save non-members the ridiculous bureaucracy of having to be voted in as a webmaster before fixing a typo, while at the same time preserving pages which you don't wish to ever be seen vandalised by partner organisations. Discussion pages should of course be editable by all. The suggestion for users to request a change through some procedure on the talk page strikes me as being rather inelegant to say the least. Who is going to decide what content is acceptable or not? I'll come back when you've worked out how to build a community instead of a bureaucracy. Bye ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
Re: [Wikimediaau-l] open wiki editing for WMAU?
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:56 PM, John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: Another option is for non-members to be restricted to talk pages on the main wiki. This means they cant edit pages, but they can initiate and participate in discussions about them. Talk pages shouldn't contain anything official. My view is that the wiki itself is a marketing and communication tool. It advertises WMAU to the world at large while also providing communication to members (not disimilar to a newsletter). I agree that opening talk pages could be worthwhile. ___ Wikimediaau-l mailing list Wikimediaau-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaau-l
