Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers

[Fæ]

Yes, at the AGM the tripling of membership numbers was explained as
being due to an increase in members joining. No meaningful facts were
presented to the members, but the impression given by the Chair and
the CEO was that there would be more information publicly available.

My question was "why". Sharing information about any discussion the
trustees have had on improving protection against entryism, would be
healthy for transparency, as would sharing exactly what happened that
caused this massive, overnight, leap in membership totals. Currently,
there is zero information on the nature of who joined, which may have
been down to how they joined. As an example, if 351 people joined at
an academic conference in London, then the people joining would be
academics who go to events in London and if the 351 new members were
found due to appeals by the CEO on Facebook, then the new members
would be limited to people who follow or network with the CEO on
Facebook.

It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there has
been no continued growth since whatever happened. Should the chapter
start maintaining the published membership report again, then it will
be possible for people apart from chapter employees to have access to
the latest facts.

Thanks,
Fae

On 9 April 2018 at 22:01, Richard Nevell  wrote:
> Dear Fae,
>
> As was explained at the AGM the increase in the number of members was the
> result of a successful membership drive.
>
> Regards,
> Richard Nevell
>
>
> On 9 Apr 2018 21:34, "Fæ"  wrote:
>
> During the last UK Chapter AGM, it was asked why the membership
> numbers had radically changed, there was no specific answer to the
> question. Was any analysis done on this afterwards? When reviewing
> membership it seems likely that the charity's trustees would have been
> concerned at these figures so shortly before the AGM, due to the
> potential risk of entryism.
>
> Membership jumped from a total of 147 (a five year low) in May 2017,
> to the all time record high the following month of 498, i.e. new
> sign-ups that month more than *tripled* the total membership.
>
> A second question - the report of membership numbers has been updated
> every month for the past five years.[1] It has not been updated since
> October 2017. Could anyone confirm what the most recent membership
> numbers are so the report can be updated?
>
> P.S. the links in the FAQ about the register of members are out of
> date, the companylawclub link is a 404 error and the companieshouse
> link advises to go to their new website.
>
> Links:
> 1. https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Membership/Numbers
> 2.
> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Volunteers_-_Frequently_Asked_Questions#Why_do_you_keep_a_register_of_members.3F
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
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>
>
>
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> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk



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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers

[Charles Matthews]

> On 10 April 2018 at 11:41 Fæ  wrote:
>
> It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there has
> been no continued growth since whatever happened. 

I don't know what happened. I did correspond with the office about a prompt to 
renew. One could simulate such a "one-off event" by simply asking people whose 
membership had lapsed to renew. I was doing this sort of thing for WMUK some 
seven years ago, so as an explanation it is not far-fetched.

Charles

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[Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne)

[John Byrne]

As very often in recent years, I got a notification of my post sent an hour or so ago, with completely blank text.  Yet Katie has clearly seen it, as she quotes me. Have others also got blanks? Can the rather cryptic instructions for replies be clarified, or is there some bug?  I get the digest version.  It doesn't exactly encourage people to contribute, and may be a factor in the much lower activity on this list in recent years. It never used to happen.No Katie, I don't think this has much to do with it, though you are right to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to criticism...John/JohnbodOn 10 April 2018 at 18:37 wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions to wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia.orgYou can reach the person managing the list at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Charles Matthews) 2. UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne) 3. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Katie Chan) 4. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Richard Nevell)Message: 1Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:25:51 +0100 (BST)From: Charles Matthews To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: <1623281894.198396.1523366751569@mail2.virginmedia.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8On 10 April 2018 at 11:41 Fæ wrote:It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there hasbeen no continued growth since whatever happened.I don't know what happened. I did correspond with the office about a prompt to renew. One could simulate such a "one-off event" by simply asking people whose membership had lapsed to renew. I was doing this sort of thing for WMUK some seven years ago, so as an explanation it is not far-fetched.CharlesMessage: 2Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:31:33 +0100 (BST)From: John Byrne To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.orgSubject: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: <522111329.168305.1523377893491@email.1and1.co.uk>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: Message: 3Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:31:14 +0100From: Katie Chan To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: <7mbf1d6v6k6decqn08p662nx.1523381474669@email.android.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Oh I don't know, maybe this "yawning gap" wouldn't be so wide if the chapter don't get criticised for both not increasing its membership numbers and having increased its membership numbers.Just a wide guessKTCSent from my Samsung device-- next part --An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: Message: 4Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:37:12 +From: Richard Nevell To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Dear Fae,My memory could be failing me, but I thought it was explained at the AGMthat the increase was a result of asking donors to become members.It sounds like you are more interested in the 'how' of the process and the'who' as you seem dissatisfied with the answer to *why* there was anincrease. To make sure we're on the same page is that what you meant?Regards,Richard NevellPS. Have you had a chance to look into the issue on Commons with theconflicting licence for some images from the Portable Antiquities Scheme?My question was archived before a reply.On 10 April 2018 at 11:41, Fæ wrote:Yes, at the AGM the tripling of membership numbers was explained asbeing due to an increase in members joining. No meaningful facts werepresented to the members, but the impression given by the Chair andthe CEO was that there would be more information publicly available.My question was "why". Sharing information about any discussion thetrustees have had on improving protection against entryism, would behealthy for transparency, as would sharing exactly what happened thatcaused this massive, overnight, leap in membership totals. Currently,there is zero information on the nature of who joined, which may havebeen down to how they joined. As an example, if 351 people joined atan academic conference in London, then the people joining would beacademics who go to events in London and if the 351 new members werefound due to appeals by the CEO on Facebook, then the new memberswould be limited to people who follow or network with the CEO onFacebook.It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there hasbeen no continued growth since whatever happened. Should the chapterstart maintaining the published membership report again, then it willbe possible for people apart from 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers

[John Lubbock]

Thanks Stevie. We are trying to work on an integrated communications and
membership strategy to grow the membership further. As always there are
capacity issues as to what we can do with the number of staff and funding
we have, but I am always willing to listen to people's ideas for how we
could reach new people and encourage more membership.

John Lubbock

Communications Coordinator

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 203 372 0767



Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1,
Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.

Wikimedia UK is the national chapter of the global Wikimedia open knowledge
movement. We rely on donations from individuals to support our work to make
knowledge open for all. Have you considered supporting Wikimedia UK? Donate
here .

The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.*

On 10 April 2018 at 18:42, Stevie Benton  wrote:

> Exactly what Katie says. The chapter can't win here. It gets criticised if
> membership doesn't grow because some see it as a kind of failure. Then,
> when the chapter grows its membership it is seen as some kind of entryist
> threat. I find it particularly notable that these criticisms come from the
> same quarters.
>
> I say well done WMUK for growing the membership and encouraging more
> people to get involved in the free and open movement. Good work.
>
> Stevie
>
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Katie Chan  wrote:
>
>> Oh I don't know, maybe this "yawning gap" wouldn't be so wide if the
>> chapter don't get criticised for both not increasing its membership numbers
>> and having increased its membership numbers.
>>
>> Just a wide guess
>>
>> KTC
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Samsung device
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimedia UK mailing list
>> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
>> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
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> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne)

[Stevie Benton]

" though you are right to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to
criticism... "

John, I must have missed that bit as I didn't see Katie imply that at all.
If anything, I think the chapter receives, and always has received, a lot
of unwarranted criticism from people who have ill-defined issues with how
it operates. Some people have always been very quick to rush to criticism
rather than gently join a conversation. Others simply have an axe to grind.

The chapter is doing a good job. Wouldn't it be nice if we heard people say
that more often?

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 6:49 PM, John Byrne  wrote:

> As very often in recent years, I got a notification of my post sent an
> hour or so ago, with completely blank text.  Yet Katie has clearly seen it,
> as she quotes me. Have others also got blanks? Can the rather cryptic
> instructions for replies be clarified, or is there some bug?  I get the
> digest version.  It doesn't exactly encourage people to contribute, and may
> be a factor in the much lower activity on this list in recent years. It
> never used to happen.
>
> No Katie, I don't think this has much to do with it, though you are right
> to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to criticism...
>
> John/Johnbod
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 18:37 wikimediauk-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
>
>
> Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions to
> wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> wikimediauk-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> wikimediauk-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
> 1. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Charles Matthews) 2. UK chapter
> membership numbers (John Byrne) 3. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Katie
> Chan) 4. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Richard Nevell)
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:25:51 +0100 (BST)
> From: Charles Matthews
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <1623281894.198396.1523366751...@mail2.virginmedia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 11:41 Fæ wrote:
>
> It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there has
> been no continued growth since whatever happened.
>
>
> I don't know what happened. I did correspond with the office about a
> prompt to renew. One could simulate such a "one-off event" by simply asking
> people whose membership had lapsed to renew. I was doing this sort of thing
> for WMUK some seven years ago, so as an explanation it is not far-fetched.
>
> Charles
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:31:33 +0100 (BST)
> From: John Byrne
> To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <522111329.168305.1523377893...@email.1and1.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:31:14 +0100
> From: Katie Chan
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <7mbf1d6v6k6decqn08p662nx.1523381474...@email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> Oh I don't know, maybe this "yawning gap" wouldn't be so wide if the
> chapter don't get criticised for both not increasing its membership numbers
> and having increased its membership numbers.
> Just a wide guess
> KTC
>
> Sent from my Samsung device
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> --
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:37:12 +
> From: Richard Nevell
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Fae,
>
> My memory could be failing me, but I thought it was explained at the AGM
> that the increase was a result of asking donors to become members.
>
> It sounds like you are more interested in the 'how' of the process and the
> 'who' as you seem dissatisfied with the answer to *why* there was an
> increase. To make sure we're on the same page is that what you meant?
>
> Regards,
> Richard Nevell
>
> PS. Have you had a chance to look into the issue on Commons with the
> conflicting licence for some images from the Portable Antiquities Scheme?
> My question was archived before a reply.
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 11:41, Fæ wrote:
>
> Yes, at the AGM the tripling of membership numbers was explained as
> being due to an increase in members joining. No meaningful 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers

[Richard Nevell]

Dear Fae,

My memory could be failing me, but I thought it was explained at the AGM
that the increase was a result of asking donors to become members.

It sounds like you are more interested in the 'how' of the process and the
'who' as you seem dissatisfied with the answer to *why* there was an
increase. To make sure we're on the same page is that what you meant?

Regards,
Richard Nevell

PS. Have you had a chance to look into the issue on Commons with the
conflicting licence for some images from the Portable Antiquities Scheme?
My question was archived before a reply.


On 10 April 2018 at 11:41, Fæ  wrote:

> Yes, at the AGM the tripling of membership numbers was explained as
> being due to an increase in members joining. No meaningful facts were
> presented to the members, but the impression given by the Chair and
> the CEO was that there would be more information publicly available.
>
> My question was "why". Sharing information about any discussion the
> trustees have had on improving protection against entryism, would be
> healthy for transparency, as would sharing exactly what happened that
> caused this massive, overnight, leap in membership totals. Currently,
> there is zero information on the nature of who joined, which may have
> been down to how they joined. As an example, if 351 people joined at
> an academic conference in London, then the people joining would be
> academics who go to events in London and if the 351 new members were
> found due to appeals by the CEO on Facebook, then the new members
> would be limited to people who follow or network with the CEO on
> Facebook.
>
> It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there has
> been no continued growth since whatever happened. Should the chapter
> start maintaining the published membership report again, then it will
> be possible for people apart from chapter employees to have access to
> the latest facts.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On 9 April 2018 at 22:01, Richard Nevell 
> wrote:
> > Dear Fae,
> >
> > As was explained at the AGM the increase in the number of members was the
> > result of a successful membership drive.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Richard Nevell
> >
> >
> > On 9 Apr 2018 21:34, "Fæ"  wrote:
> >
> > During the last UK Chapter AGM, it was asked why the membership
> > numbers had radically changed, there was no specific answer to the
> > question. Was any analysis done on this afterwards? When reviewing
> > membership it seems likely that the charity's trustees would have been
> > concerned at these figures so shortly before the AGM, due to the
> > potential risk of entryism.
> >
> > Membership jumped from a total of 147 (a five year low) in May 2017,
> > to the all time record high the following month of 498, i.e. new
> > sign-ups that month more than *tripled* the total membership.
> >
> > A second question - the report of membership numbers has been updated
> > every month for the past five years.[1] It has not been updated since
> > October 2017. Could anyone confirm what the most recent membership
> > numbers are so the report can be updated?
> >
> > P.S. the links in the FAQ about the register of members are out of
> > date, the companylawclub link is a 404 error and the companieshouse
> > link advises to go to their new website.
> >
> > Links:
> > 1. https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Membership/Numbers
> > 2.
> >
> https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Volunteers_-_Frequently_Asked_Questions#Why_do_you_keep_a_register_of_members.3F
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Fae
> > --
> > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
> > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia UK mailing list
> > wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> > WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
>
>
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> ___
> Wikimedia UK mailing list
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[Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers

[John Byrne]

As I recall, the "successful membership drive" consisted in offering donors to convert some of their donation into a chapter sub. I doubt anyone knows who most of them are, and I doubt a high proportion know much about the movement or the chapter, beyond the experience of a reader.  Some of course will be experienced Wikipedians. The effect will probably be that so long as things appear to run smoothly, those who bother to vote will do whatever the board ask, but if things get choppy, with flash adverse media coverage, there may be a sudden rejection of anything the board says, in favour of any alternative offered.All in all, the yawning gap between the chapter and the community has been widened. John/JohnbodOn 10 April 2018 at 13:00 wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions to wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia.orgYou can reach the person managing the list at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."Today's Topics: 1. UK chapter membership numbers (Fæ) 2. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Richard Nevell) 3. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Fæ)Message: 1Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2018 21:33:46 +0100From: Fæ To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"During the last UK Chapter AGM, it was asked why the membershipnumbers had radically changed, there was no specific answer to thequestion. Was any analysis done on this afterwards? When reviewingmembership it seems likely that the charity's trustees would have beenconcerned at these figures so shortly before the AGM, due to thepotential risk of entryism.Membership jumped from a total of 147 (a five year low) in May 2017,to the all time record high the following month of 498, i.e. newsign-ups that month more than *tripled* the total membership.A second question - the report of membership numbers has been updatedevery month for the past five years.[1] It has not been updated sinceOctober 2017. Could anyone confirm what the most recent membershipnumbers are so the report can be updated?P.S. the links in the FAQ about the register of members are out ofdate, the companylawclub link is a 404 error and the companieshouselink advises to go to their new website.Links:https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Membership/Numbershttps://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Volunteers_-_Frequently_Asked_Questions#Why_do_you_keep_a_register_of_members.3FThanks,Fae-- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:FaeMessage: 2Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2018 21:01:20 +From: Richard Nevell To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Dear Fae,As was explained at the AGM the increase in the number of members was theresult of a successful membership drive.Regards,Richard NevellOn 9 Apr 2018 21:34, "Fæ" wrote:During the last UK Chapter AGM, it was asked why the membershipnumbers had radically changed, there was no specific answer to thequestion. Was any analysis done on this afterwards? When reviewingmembership it seems likely that the charity's trustees would have beenconcerned at these figures so shortly before the AGM, due to thepotential risk of entryism.Membership jumped from a total of 147 (a five year low) in May 2017,to the all time record high the following month of 498, i.e. newsign-ups that month more than *tripled* the total membership.A second question - the report of membership numbers has been updatedevery month for the past five years.[1] It has not been updated sinceOctober 2017. Could anyone confirm what the most recent membershipnumbers are so the report can be updated?P.S. the links in the FAQ about the register of members are out ofdate, the companylawclub link is a 404 error and the companieshouselink advises to go to their new website.Links:https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Membership/Numbers2.https://wikimedia.org.uk/wiki/Volunteers_-_Frequently_Asked_Questions#Why_do_you_keep_a_register_of_members.3FThanks,Fae--fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae___Wikimedia UK mailing listwikimediau...@wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lWMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk-- next part --An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL: Message: 3Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 11:41:29 +0100From: Fæ To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"Yes, at the AGM the tripling of membership numbers was explained asbeing due to an increase in members joining. 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimediauk-l Digest, Vol 153, Issue 7

[John Byrne]

Once again my post is (to me) a header and blank text, but others can evidently see it, which is something.  Katie seems to see the only possible problem as the chapter getting criticised... John/JohnbodOn 10 April 2018 at 18:57 wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions to wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia.orgYou can reach the person managing the list at wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne) (John Lubbock) 2. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne) (Stevie Benton)Message: 1Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:54:28 +0100From: John Lubbock To: UK Wikimedia mailing list Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne)Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"We welcome constructive criticism, and I am happy to listen to any members'concerns and ideas for improving Chapter-Community cohesion andcommunication. :)John LubbockCommunications CoordinatorWikimedia UK+44 (0) 203 372 0767Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England andWales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1,Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.Wikimedia UK is the national chapter of the global Wikimedia open knowledgemovement. We rely on donations from individuals to support our work to makeknowledge open for all. Have you considered supporting Wikimedia UK? Donatehere .The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operateWikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independentnon-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibilityfor its contents.*On 10 April 2018 at 18:49, John Byrne wrote:As very often in recent years, I got a notification of my post sent anhour or so ago, with completely blank text. Yet Katie has clearly seen it,as she quotes me. Have others also got blanks? Can the rather crypticinstructions for replies be clarified, or is there some bug? I get thedigest version. It doesn't exactly encourage people to contribute, and maybe a factor in the much lower activity on this list in recent years. Itnever used to happen.No Katie, I don't think this has much to do with it, though you are rightto imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to criticism...John/JohnbodOn 10 April 2018 at 18:37 wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions towikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visithttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-lor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' towikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia.orgYou can reach the person managing the list atwikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia.orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."Today's Topics:Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Charles Matthews) 2. UK chaptermembership numbers (John Byrne) 3. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (KatieChan) 4. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Richard Nevell)Message: 1Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:25:51 +0100 (BST)From: Charles MatthewsTo: UK Wikimedia mailing listSubject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: <1623281894.198396.1523366751569@mail2.virginmedia.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8On 10 April 2018 at 11:41 Fæ wrote:It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there hasbeen no continued growth since whatever happened.I don't know what happened. I did correspond with the office about aprompt to renew. One could simulate such a "one-off event" by simply askingpeople whose membership had lapsed to renew. I was doing this sort of thingfor WMUK some seven years ago, so as an explanation it is not far-fetched.CharlesMessage: 2Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:31:33 +0100 (BST)From: John ByrneTo: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.orgSubject: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: <522111329.168305.1523377893491@email.1and1.co.uk>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"An HTML attachment was scrubbed...URL:Message: 3Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:31:14 +0100From: Katie ChanTo: UK Wikimedia mailing listSubject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbersMessage-ID: <7mbf1d6v6k6decqn08p662nx.1523381474669@email.android.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Oh I don't know, maybe this "yawning gap" wouldn't be so wide if thechapter don't get criticised for both not increasing its membership numbersand having increased its membership numbers.Just a wide guessKTCSent from my Samsung device-- next part 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers

[Katie Chan]

Oh I don't know, maybe this "yawning gap" wouldn't be so wide if the chapter 
don't get criticised for both not increasing its membership numbers and having 
increased its membership numbers.
Just a wide guess
KTC

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers

[Stevie Benton]

Exactly what Katie says. The chapter can't win here. It gets criticised if
membership doesn't grow because some see it as a kind of failure. Then,
when the chapter grows its membership it is seen as some kind of entryist
threat. I find it particularly notable that these criticisms come from the
same quarters.

I say well done WMUK for growing the membership and encouraging more people
to get involved in the free and open movement. Good work.

Stevie

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 6:31 PM, Katie Chan  wrote:

> Oh I don't know, maybe this "yawning gap" wouldn't be so wide if the
> chapter don't get criticised for both not increasing its membership numbers
> and having increased its membership numbers.
>
> Just a wide guess
>
> KTC
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung device
>
> ___
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> wikimediau...@wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> WMUK: https://wikimedia.org.uk
>
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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne)

[John Lubbock]

We welcome constructive criticism, and I am happy to listen to any members'
concerns and ideas for improving Chapter-Community cohesion and
communication. :)

John Lubbock

Communications Coordinator

Wikimedia UK

+44 (0) 203 372 0767



Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Office 1,
Ground Floor, Europoint, 5 - 11 Lavington Street, London SE1 0NZ.

Wikimedia UK is the national chapter of the global Wikimedia open knowledge
movement. We rely on donations from individuals to support our work to make
knowledge open for all. Have you considered supporting Wikimedia UK? Donate
here .

The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate
Wikipedia, amongst other projects). *Wikimedia UK is an independent
non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility
for its contents.*

On 10 April 2018 at 18:49, John Byrne  wrote:

> As very often in recent years, I got a notification of my post sent an
> hour or so ago, with completely blank text.  Yet Katie has clearly seen it,
> as she quotes me. Have others also got blanks? Can the rather cryptic
> instructions for replies be clarified, or is there some bug?  I get the
> digest version.  It doesn't exactly encourage people to contribute, and may
> be a factor in the much lower activity on this list in recent years. It
> never used to happen.
>
> No Katie, I don't think this has much to do with it, though you are right
> to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to criticism...
>
> John/Johnbod
>
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 18:37 wikimediauk-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
>
>
> Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions to
> wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> wikimediauk-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> wikimediauk-l-ow...@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
> 1. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Charles Matthews) 2. UK chapter
> membership numbers (John Byrne) 3. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Katie
> Chan) 4. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Richard Nevell)
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:25:51 +0100 (BST)
> From: Charles Matthews
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <1623281894.198396.1523366751...@mail2.virginmedia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On 10 April 2018 at 11:41 Fæ wrote:
>
> It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off event, there has
> been no continued growth since whatever happened.
>
>
> I don't know what happened. I did correspond with the office about a
> prompt to renew. One could simulate such a "one-off event" by simply asking
> people whose membership had lapsed to renew. I was doing this sort of thing
> for WMUK some seven years ago, so as an explanation it is not far-fetched.
>
> Charles
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:31:33 +0100 (BST)
> From: John Byrne
> To: wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Subject: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <522111329.168305.1523377893...@email.1and1.co.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 18:31:14 +0100
> From: Katie Chan
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID: <7mbf1d6v6k6decqn08p662nx.1523381474...@email.android.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> Oh I don't know, maybe this "yawning gap" wouldn't be so wide if the
> chapter don't get criticised for both not increasing its membership numbers
> and having increased its membership numbers.
> Just a wide guess
> KTC
>
> Sent from my Samsung device
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> --
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:37:12 +
> From: Richard Nevell
> To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Fae,
>
> My memory could be failing me, but I thought it was explained at the AGM
> that the increase was a result of asking donors to become members.
>
> It sounds like you are more interested in the 'how' of the process and the
> 'who' as you seem dissatisfied with the answer to *why* there was an
> increase. To make sure we're on the same page is that what you meant?
>
> 

Re: [Wikimediauk-l] Wikimediauk-l Digest, Vol 153, Issue 7

[Katie Chan]

My phone must have sent you a different email than what I typed on it, 
because I don't recall typing the word "only" anywhere on my previous 
reply. Maybe my memory's going, but I also vaguely recall typing 
something about them being criticised for not doing something AND being 
criticised for doing that very thing they were previously criticised for 
not doing, which is rather more specific than "the chapter getting 
criticised".


Regards,

KTC

On 10/04/2018 19:05, John Byrne wrote:
Once again my post is (to me) a header and blank text, but others can 
evidently see it, which is something.  Katie seems to see the only 
possible problem as the chapter getting criticised...


John/Johnbod



--
Katie Chan
Any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the 
author and do not necessarily represent the view of any organisation the 
author is associated with or employed by.



Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine

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Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers (John Byrne)

[Rex X]

I'm also willing to listen to criticism of the chapter, and I promise I'll do 
my best to address any issues that I can, as long as it does not fall directly 
within the operational remit of the staff.

I don't share the concern about the jump in membership. All the reports I have 
seen indicate that the membership grew because a significant number of donors 
simply agreed to call £5 worth of their donations a membership fee. We have 
quite a few regular donors, so it does not seem unlikely to me that the 
observed effect on membership numbers was almost wholly as a result of that.

The possibility of entryism has been a concern for the Board for some time, 
because of low numbers of members. However, again as far as I am aware, the 
jump in membership was not localised to any group other the very diverse group 
who are our regular donors. The result of that will be to make it more 
difficult for any special interest group to become a significant voting block, 
although the proof of that will lie with the next AGM, when we see if the 
number of members voting goes up in line with the increased membership. I have 
a sneaking feeling it might not.

As ever, the trustees will be keen to hear of issues that the community raises, 
and concerned members should always feel that they can ask any trustee for 
items to be raised at the next Board meeting - or earlier, should the matter be 
urgent.

Cheers

--

Doug


> On 10 April 2018 at 18:57 Stevie Benton  wrote:
> 
> " though you are right to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to 
> criticism... "
> 
> John, I must have missed that bit as I didn't see Katie imply that at 
> all. If anything, I think the chapter receives, and always has received, a 
> lot of unwarranted criticism from people who have ill-defined issues with how 
> it operates. Some people have always been very quick to rush to criticism 
> rather than gently join a conversation. Others simply have an axe to grind.
> 
> The chapter is doing a good job. Wouldn't it be nice if we heard people 
> say that more often?
> 
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 6:49 PM, John Byrne  mailto:j...@bodkinprints.co.uk > wrote:
> 
> > > 
> > As very often in recent years, I got a notification of my post sent 
> > an hour or so ago, with completely blank text.  Yet Katie has clearly seen 
> > it, as she quotes me. Have others also got blanks? Can the rather cryptic 
> > instructions for replies be clarified, or is there some bug?  I get the 
> > digest version.  It doesn't exactly encourage people to contribute, and may 
> > be a factor in the much lower activity on this list in recent years. It 
> > never used to happen.
> > 
> > No Katie, I don't think this has much to do with it, though you are 
> > right to imply that the chapter is over-sensitive to criticism...
> > 
> > John/Johnbod
> > 
> > 
> > On 10 April 2018 at 18:37 wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia 
> > mailto:wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia .org wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Send Wikimediauk-l mailing list submissions to
> > wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia mailto:wikimediauk-l@lists.wikimedia 
> > .org
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l 
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia 
> > mailto:wikimediauk-l-request@lists.wikimedia .org
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia 
> > mailto:wikimediauk-l-owner@lists.wikimedia .org
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Wikimediauk-l digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 1. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Charles Matthews) 2. UK 
> > chapter membership numbers (John Byrne) 3. Re: UK chapter membership 
> > numbers (Katie Chan) 4. Re: UK chapter membership numbers (Richard Nevell)
> > 
> > 
> > > > > -
> > > 
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2018 14:25:51 +0100 (BST)
> > > From: Charles Matthews
> > > To: UK Wikimedia mailing list
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimediauk-l] UK chapter membership numbers
> > > Message-ID: < 
> > > 1623281894.198396.1523366751569@mail2.virginmedia 
> > > mailto:1623281894.198396.1523366751569@mail2.virginmedia .com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> > > 
> > > > > > > On 10 April 2018 at 11:41 Fæ wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > It appears that the jump in numbers was a one-off 
> > > > event, there has
> > > > been no continued