Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings
Nice work, but as the WLM images will be going onto Coommons you also need a column for the relevant commons category, otherwise how are you going to correctly categorise the uploaded images? Jonathan On 19 June 2013 19:41, Katie Chan katie.c...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: No, splitting it into multiple lists as it exist now are perfectly fine. On 19 June 2013 17:42, Rod Ward r...@rodspace.co.uk wrote: Hi Katie, ** ** Thanks – I guess I will be going through the Somerset ones when I get some time. ** ** Does it matter that a county (ie Somerset) has too many entries to fit on one list? ** ** Rod ** ** *From:* Katie Chan [mailto:katie.c...@wikimedia.org.uk] *Sent:* 19 June 2013 17:21 *To:* Rod Ward *Cc:* WLM 2013 UK mailing list; Wikimediauk-l *Subject:* Re: [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings ** ** Unless as a research project, someone go through every entries to see what each particular listing covers and count manually, no one have the answer to how many independent buildings or structures are listed. That's why the heritage organisations talks about listed building entries instead, which is also how I counted Scotland, Wales Northern Ireland. ** ** The template for England is particular crude and in need of improvement. The headers are chosen based on what headers are on the various existing lists so that changing to templates don't lose us any existing information. Some of the headers, such as architect and date listed could probably do with being made optional. I'll see about doing that unless someone beat me to it. The UID (or HB number) field is essential for WLM as tagging an upload with that is how we know an upload on Commons is eligible for the competition so yes, that would need to be added. With the number, we can also link directly to each individual entries page on English Heritage (likewise for Scotland Northern Ireland), instead of say Images of England or some other website. The templates don't actually currently have a separate column for references as I was having a little problem with making template variables work inside a ref tag. I guess the solution will be having to do it manually. Again, unless someone beat me to it, I'll add that sometime. ** ** Katie ** ** On 19 June 2013 16:12, Rod Ward r...@rodspace.co.uk wrote: Hi Katie, This looks as if you have done a tremendous amount of work. However I have some questions.. When I created http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_Somerset and its 7 sub lists I was asked “How many listed buildings are there” as part of various review processes - even having studied all the source I can find for year I can mot answer that. In Bath whole streets (of 30-50 buildings) can be under one listing and yet in other examples the house may be one listing, the walls several more and the fountain a listing on its own. Therefore what figure should be put in the first “number” column on the tracking table? If a list created some years ago (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_South_Somerset) has references for each one which use Images of England, and was completed before the National heritage list was available are you asking for an extra column to be added with the NHLE Unique ID number? Do we need to include columns for architect and date list? Rod *From:* wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk [mailto: wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk] *On Behalf Of *Katie Chan *Sent:* 19 June 2013 15:11 *To:* WLM 2013 UK mailing list *Cc:* Wikimediauk-l *Subject:* [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings Hi all, One of the task that needs to be completed for WLM to happen is to have exhaustive lists of all eligible listed buildings on Wikipedia, using appropriately formed templates instead of wiki tables directly. To get everyone going, I have created the templates[1], which everyone is of course encouraged to improve. In terms of the actual lists themselves, I have created a tracking table[2] so that everyone can see where we are and where work needs to be done. All the columns should be fairly self explanatory, aside from the one on images which is intended to track when someone has searched through Commons Wikipedia for existing images and added them to the respective list. Except for Wales, where lists didn't exist before, you can navigate to the existing lists from [3]. As you can see, I have made a start on at least one counties per countries so that everyone can see what I envisage them looking like[4]. You can find a copy of the source data for England[5], Wales[6], Scotland[7] and Northern Ireland[8] at the respective links provided. There's also PHP scripts for manipulation of geo-coordinates (latitude/longitude) to[9] and from[10] OS
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings
Solid work Katie and this should establish a base. The data isnt perfect but as least you have probably got the best available. Without that you could have just been recreating what was already in a database somewhere. Nice to see that English Heritage are revising their access rules. I guess some wag would say that if they gave us permission we might be able to improve the data and write it back for the common benefit (one day?). I guess if the stuff gets geotagged then it might reveal where 3 walls of a building, the entrance gates and a statue all have individual entries whilst the mansion next door has only one. However the value of these datasets are not in their precision but in the breadth. Well done R On 20 June 2013 00:22, WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.comwrote: Nice work, but as the WLM images will be going onto Coommons you also need a column for the relevant commons category, otherwise how are you going to correctly categorise the uploaded images? Jonathan On 19 June 2013 19:41, Katie Chan katie.c...@wikimedia.org.uk wrote: No, splitting it into multiple lists as it exist now are perfectly fine. On 19 June 2013 17:42, Rod Ward r...@rodspace.co.uk wrote: Hi Katie, ** ** Thanks – I guess I will be going through the Somerset ones when I get some time. ** ** Does it matter that a county (ie Somerset) has too many entries to fit on one list? ** ** Rod ** ** *From:* Katie Chan [mailto:katie.c...@wikimedia.org.uk] *Sent:* 19 June 2013 17:21 *To:* Rod Ward *Cc:* WLM 2013 UK mailing list; Wikimediauk-l *Subject:* Re: [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings ** ** Unless as a research project, someone go through every entries to see what each particular listing covers and count manually, no one have the answer to how many independent buildings or structures are listed. That's why the heritage organisations talks about listed building entries instead, which is also how I counted Scotland, Wales Northern Ireland. ** ** The template for England is particular crude and in need of improvement. The headers are chosen based on what headers are on the various existing lists so that changing to templates don't lose us any existing information. Some of the headers, such as architect and date listed could probably do with being made optional. I'll see about doing that unless someone beat me to it. The UID (or HB number) field is essential for WLM as tagging an upload with that is how we know an upload on Commons is eligible for the competition so yes, that would need to be added. With the number, we can also link directly to each individual entries page on English Heritage (likewise for Scotland Northern Ireland), instead of say Images of England or some other website. The templates don't actually currently have a separate column for references as I was having a little problem with making template variables work inside a ref tag. I guess the solution will be having to do it manually. Again, unless someone beat me to it, I'll add that sometime. ** ** Katie ** ** On 19 June 2013 16:12, Rod Ward r...@rodspace.co.uk wrote: Hi Katie, This looks as if you have done a tremendous amount of work. However I have some questions.. When I created http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_Somerset and its 7 sub lists I was asked “How many listed buildings are there” as part of various review processes - even having studied all the source I can find for year I can mot answer that. In Bath whole streets (of 30-50 buildings) can be under one listing and yet in other examples the house may be one listing, the walls several more and the fountain a listing on its own. Therefore what figure should be put in the first “number” column on the tracking table? If a list created some years ago (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_South_Somerset) has references for each one which use Images of England, and was completed before the National heritage list was available are you asking for an extra column to be added with the NHLE Unique ID number? Do we need to include columns for architect and date list? Rod *From:* wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk [mailto: wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk] *On Behalf Of *Katie Chan *Sent:* 19 June 2013 15:11 *To:* WLM 2013 UK mailing list *Cc:* Wikimediauk-l *Subject:* [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings Hi all, One of the task that needs to be completed for WLM to happen is to have exhaustive lists of all eligible listed buildings on Wikipedia, using appropriately formed templates instead of wiki tables directly. To get everyone going, I have created the templates[1], which everyone is of course encouraged to improve. In terms of the actual lists themselves, I have
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings
Hi Katie, This looks as if you have done a tremendous amount of work. However I have some questions.. When I created http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_Somerset and its 7 sub lists I was asked How many listed buildings are there as part of various review processes - even having studied all the source I can find for year I can mot answer that. In Bath whole streets (of 30-50 buildings) can be under one listing and yet in other examples the house may be one listing, the walls several more and the fountain a listing on its own. Therefore what figure should be put in the first number column on the tracking table? If a list created some years ago (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_South_Somerset) has references for each one which use Images of England, and was completed before the National heritage list was available are you asking for an extra column to be added with the NHLE Unique ID number? Do we need to include columns for architect and date list? Rod From: wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk [mailto:wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Katie Chan Sent: 19 June 2013 15:11 To: WLM 2013 UK mailing list Cc: Wikimediauk-l Subject: [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings Hi all, One of the task that needs to be completed for WLM to happen is to have exhaustive lists of all eligible listed buildings on Wikipedia, using appropriately formed templates instead of wiki tables directly. To get everyone going, I have created the templates[1], which everyone is of course encouraged to improve. In terms of the actual lists themselves, I have created a tracking table[2] so that everyone can see where we are and where work needs to be done. All the columns should be fairly self explanatory, aside from the one on images which is intended to track when someone has searched through Commons Wikipedia for existing images and added them to the respective list. Except for Wales, where lists didn't exist before, you can navigate to the existing lists from [3]. As you can see, I have made a start on at least one counties per countries so that everyone can see what I envisage them looking like[4]. You can find a copy of the source data for England[5], Wales[6], Scotland[7] and Northern Ireland[8] at the respective links provided. There's also PHP scripts for manipulation of geo-coordinates (latitude/longitude) to[9] and from[10] OS grid references, and also one for conversion between WGS-84 datum (as used by GPS) and OSGB-36 datum (as used by the Ordnance Survey)[11]. They may come in useful for manipulation of the source data when creating the lists. I should say here that the English list is brand new courtesy of English Heritage who have recently completed a review of their licensing and released the information where they previously declined to! Aside from making WLM happen, completing these lists would improve a lot of the existing lists on Wikipedia or create new ones where they didn't exist before. This is something that can be done by everyone as time permits, whether that is mass converting the source data into templated lists, a few minutes spent looking for existing images and adding them to a list, or copyediting the generated list. Plese contribute when and where you can! Katie [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/Template:EH_listed_building_header, https://en.wikipedia.org/Template:EH_listed_building_row, https://en.wikipedia.org/Template:Cadw_listed_building_header, https://en.wikipedia.org/Template:Cadw_listed_building_row, https://en.wikipedia.org/HS_listed_building_header, https://en.wikipedia.org/Template:HS_listed_building_row, https://en.wikipedia.org/Template:NIEA_listed_building_header, https://en.wikipedia.org/Template:NIEA_listed_building_row. [2]: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2013_in_the _United_Kingdom/planning/lists [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listed_buildings_in_the_United_Kingdom [4]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_Isle_of_Wight, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_Bridgend, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Category_A_listed_buildings_in_East_R enfrewshire, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Grade_A_listed_buildings_in_County_Fe rmanagh [5]:https://docs.google.com/a/wikimedia.org.uk/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnePnsp ksYOidG1DXzhscDFFSHFZOTNSd0NGakJNNlE#gid=0, https://docs.google.com/a/wikimedia.org.uk/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnePnspksYO idG5MMU1lM0RwemZ1bmVVUnRyT3g0MGc#gid=0, http://data.gov.uk/data-requests/list-of-grade-i-and-ii-listed-buildings-in -england [6]: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3ePnspksYOiV2YzSTlpNXFvc28/edit?usp=sharin g, https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B3ePnspksYOiN2VMbzFHcTk1SWM/edit?usp=sharin g, https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/listed_buildings_in_wales [7]: https://docs.google.com/a/wikimedia.org.uk/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnePnspksYO
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings
Unless as a research project, someone go through every entries to see what each particular listing covers and count manually, no one have the answer to how many independent buildings or structures are listed. That's why the heritage organisations talks about listed building entries instead, which is also how I counted Scotland, Wales Northern Ireland. The template for England is particular crude and in need of improvement. The headers are chosen based on what headers are on the various existing lists so that changing to templates don't lose us any existing information. Some of the headers, such as architect and date listed could probably do with being made optional. I'll see about doing that unless someone beat me to it. The UID (or HB number) field is essential for WLM as tagging an upload with that is how we know an upload on Commons is eligible for the competition so yes, that would need to be added. With the number, we can also link directly to each individual entries page on English Heritage (likewise for Scotland Northern Ireland), instead of say Images of England or some other website. The templates don't actually currently have a separate column for references as I was having a little problem with making template variables work inside a ref tag. I guess the solution will be having to do it manually. Again, unless someone beat me to it, I'll add that sometime. Katie On 19 June 2013 16:12, Rod Ward r...@rodspace.co.uk wrote: Hi Katie, ** ** This looks as if you have done a tremendous amount of work. ** ** However I have some questions.. When I created http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_Somerset and its 7 sub lists I was asked “How many listed buildings are there” as part of various review processes - even having studied all the source I can find for year I can mot answer that. In Bath whole streets (of 30-50 buildings) can be under one listing and yet in other examples the house may be one listing, the walls several more and the fountain a listing on its own. Therefore what figure should be put in the first “number” column on the tracking table? ** ** ** ** If a list created some years ago (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_South_Somerset) has references for each one which use Images of England, and was completed before the National heritage list was available are you asking for an extra column to be added with the NHLE Unique ID number? ** ** Do we need to include columns for architect and date list? ** ** Rod ** ** ** ** *From:* wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk [mailto: wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk] *On Behalf Of *Katie Chan *Sent:* 19 June 2013 15:11 *To:* WLM 2013 UK mailing list *Cc:* Wikimediauk-l *Subject:* [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings ** ** Hi all, ** ** One of the task that needs to be completed for WLM to happen is to have exhaustive lists of all eligible listed buildings on Wikipedia, using appropriately formed templates instead of wiki tables directly. To get everyone going, I have created the templates[1], which everyone is of course encouraged to improve. ** ** In terms of the actual lists themselves, I have created a tracking table[2] so that everyone can see where we are and where work needs to be done. All the columns should be fairly self explanatory, aside from the one on images which is intended to track when someone has searched through Commons Wikipedia for existing images and added them to the respective list. Except for Wales, where lists didn't exist before, you can navigate to the existing lists from [3]. As you can see, I have made a start on at least one counties per countries so that everyone can see what I envisage them looking like[4]. You can find a copy of the source data for England[5], Wales[6], Scotland[7] and Northern Ireland[8] at the respective links provided. There's also PHP scripts for manipulation of geo-coordinates (latitude/longitude) to[9] and from[10] OS grid references, and also one for conversion between WGS-84 datum (as used by GPS) and OSGB-36 datum (as used by the Ordnance Survey)[11]. They may come in useful for manipulation of the source data when creating the lists. I should say here that the English list is brand new courtesy of English Heritage who have recently completed a review of their licensing and released the information where they previously declined to! ** ** Aside from making WLM happen, completing these lists would improve a lot of the existing lists on Wikipedia or create new ones where they didn't exist before. This is something that can be done by everyone as time permits, whether that is mass converting the source data into templated lists, a few minutes spent looking for existing images and adding them to a list, or copyediting the generated list. ** ** Plese contribute when and where you can
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings
Hi Katie, Thanks - I guess I will be going through the Somerset ones when I get some time. Does it matter that a county (ie Somerset) has too many entries to fit on one list? Rod From: Katie Chan [mailto:katie.c...@wikimedia.org.uk] Sent: 19 June 2013 17:21 To: Rod Ward Cc: WLM 2013 UK mailing list; Wikimediauk-l Subject: Re: [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings Unless as a research project, someone go through every entries to see what each particular listing covers and count manually, no one have the answer to how many independent buildings or structures are listed. That's why the heritage organisations talks about listed building entries instead, which is also how I counted Scotland, Wales Northern Ireland. The template for England is particular crude and in need of improvement. The headers are chosen based on what headers are on the various existing lists so that changing to templates don't lose us any existing information. Some of the headers, such as architect and date listed could probably do with being made optional. I'll see about doing that unless someone beat me to it. The UID (or HB number) field is essential for WLM as tagging an upload with that is how we know an upload on Commons is eligible for the competition so yes, that would need to be added. With the number, we can also link directly to each individual entries page on English Heritage (likewise for Scotland Northern Ireland), instead of say Images of England or some other website. The templates don't actually currently have a separate column for references as I was having a little problem with making template variables work inside a ref tag. I guess the solution will be having to do it manually. Again, unless someone beat me to it, I'll add that sometime. Katie On 19 June 2013 16:12, Rod Ward r...@rodspace.co.uk wrote: Hi Katie, This looks as if you have done a tremendous amount of work. However I have some questions.. When I created http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_Somerset and its 7 sub lists I was asked How many listed buildings are there as part of various review processes - even having studied all the source I can find for year I can mot answer that. In Bath whole streets (of 30-50 buildings) can be under one listing and yet in other examples the house may be one listing, the walls several more and the fountain a listing on its own. Therefore what figure should be put in the first number column on the tracking table? If a list created some years ago (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_South_Somerset) has references for each one which use Images of England, and was completed before the National heritage list was available are you asking for an extra column to be added with the NHLE Unique ID number? Do we need to include columns for architect and date list? Rod From: wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk [mailto:wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk] On Behalf Of Katie Chan Sent: 19 June 2013 15:11 To: WLM 2013 UK mailing list Cc: Wikimediauk-l Subject: [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings Hi all, One of the task that needs to be completed for WLM to happen is to have exhaustive lists of all eligible listed buildings on Wikipedia, using appropriately formed templates instead of wiki tables directly. To get everyone going, I have created the templates[1], which everyone is of course encouraged to improve. In terms of the actual lists themselves, I have created a tracking table[2] so that everyone can see where we are and where work needs to be done. All the columns should be fairly self explanatory, aside from the one on images which is intended to track when someone has searched through Commons Wikipedia for existing images and added them to the respective list. Except for Wales, where lists didn't exist before, you can navigate to the existing lists from [3]. As you can see, I have made a start on at least one counties per countries so that everyone can see what I envisage them looking like[4]. You can find a copy of the source data for England[5], Wales[6], Scotland[7] and Northern Ireland[8] at the respective links provided. There's also PHP scripts for manipulation of geo-coordinates (latitude/longitude) to[9] and from[10] OS grid references, and also one for conversion between WGS-84 datum (as used by GPS) and OSGB-36 datum (as used by the Ordnance Survey)[11]. They may come in useful for manipulation of the source data when creating the lists. I should say here that the English list is brand new courtesy of English Heritage who have recently completed a review of their licensing and released the information where they previously declined to! Aside from making WLM happen, completing these lists would improve a lot of the existing lists on Wikipedia or create new ones where they didn't exist before. This is something that can be done by everyone as time permits, whether that is mass
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings
No, splitting it into multiple lists as it exist now are perfectly fine. On 19 June 2013 17:42, Rod Ward r...@rodspace.co.uk wrote: Hi Katie, ** ** Thanks – I guess I will be going through the Somerset ones when I get some time. ** ** Does it matter that a county (ie Somerset) has too many entries to fit on one list? ** ** Rod ** ** *From:* Katie Chan [mailto:katie.c...@wikimedia.org.uk] *Sent:* 19 June 2013 17:21 *To:* Rod Ward *Cc:* WLM 2013 UK mailing list; Wikimediauk-l *Subject:* Re: [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings ** ** Unless as a research project, someone go through every entries to see what each particular listing covers and count manually, no one have the answer to how many independent buildings or structures are listed. That's why the heritage organisations talks about listed building entries instead, which is also how I counted Scotland, Wales Northern Ireland. ** ** The template for England is particular crude and in need of improvement. The headers are chosen based on what headers are on the various existing lists so that changing to templates don't lose us any existing information. Some of the headers, such as architect and date listed could probably do with being made optional. I'll see about doing that unless someone beat me to it. The UID (or HB number) field is essential for WLM as tagging an upload with that is how we know an upload on Commons is eligible for the competition so yes, that would need to be added. With the number, we can also link directly to each individual entries page on English Heritage (likewise for Scotland Northern Ireland), instead of say Images of England or some other website. The templates don't actually currently have a separate column for references as I was having a little problem with making template variables work inside a ref tag. I guess the solution will be having to do it manually. Again, unless someone beat me to it, I'll add that sometime. ** ** Katie ** ** On 19 June 2013 16:12, Rod Ward r...@rodspace.co.uk wrote: Hi Katie, This looks as if you have done a tremendous amount of work. However I have some questions.. When I created http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_Somerset and its 7 sub lists I was asked “How many listed buildings are there” as part of various review processes - even having studied all the source I can find for year I can mot answer that. In Bath whole streets (of 30-50 buildings) can be under one listing and yet in other examples the house may be one listing, the walls several more and the fountain a listing on its own. Therefore what figure should be put in the first “number” column on the tracking table? If a list created some years ago (eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_I_listed_buildings_in_South_Somerset) has references for each one which use Images of England, and was completed before the National heritage list was available are you asking for an extra column to be added with the NHLE Unique ID number? Do we need to include columns for architect and date list? Rod *From:* wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk [mailto: wlm2013-l-boun...@wikimedia.org.uk] *On Behalf Of *Katie Chan *Sent:* 19 June 2013 15:11 *To:* WLM 2013 UK mailing list *Cc:* Wikimediauk-l *Subject:* [Wlm2013-l] Lists of UK listed buildings Hi all, One of the task that needs to be completed for WLM to happen is to have exhaustive lists of all eligible listed buildings on Wikipedia, using appropriately formed templates instead of wiki tables directly. To get everyone going, I have created the templates[1], which everyone is of course encouraged to improve. In terms of the actual lists themselves, I have created a tracking table[2] so that everyone can see where we are and where work needs to be done. All the columns should be fairly self explanatory, aside from the one on images which is intended to track when someone has searched through Commons Wikipedia for existing images and added them to the respective list. Except for Wales, where lists didn't exist before, you can navigate to the existing lists from [3]. As you can see, I have made a start on at least one counties per countries so that everyone can see what I envisage them looking like[4]. You can find a copy of the source data for England[5], Wales[6], Scotland[7] and Northern Ireland[8] at the respective links provided. There's also PHP scripts for manipulation of geo-coordinates (latitude/longitude) to[9] and from[10] OS grid references, and also one for conversion between WGS-84 datum (as used by GPS) and OSGB-36 datum (as used by the Ordnance Survey)[11]. They may come in useful for manipulation of the source data when creating the lists. I should say here that the English list
