[WISPA] DIY Wireless Enclosures
Hi all, This is aimed at anyone who builds there own x86 kit but anyone with experience in this arena is more than welcome to chime in. Basically I'm trying to gauge if using a sealed enclosure is really best for mounting x86 based kit outdoors or if a well ventilated enclosure would be better. Until now we have always used IP67 enclosures but it seems that no matter how well you seal every cable entry point a tiny amount of water always manages to get in. Once the water is in it never seems to drain. Looking at some of the outdoor cabs that the mobile operators use in the UK it would apear that they use well ventilated outdoor housing not sealed enclosures. Obviously a vetilated enclosure has the added bonus that there is more airflow which can only be a good thing when using x86 hardware. Any thoughts or experiences? Many thanks, Paul. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] 700 MHz guard-band licensees push for public-safety network
700 MHz guard-band licensees push for public-safety network By Heather Forsgren Weaver Oct 2, 2006 WASHINGTON—Guard-band licensees in the 700 MHz band late Friday asked the Federal Communications Commission to scrap the current band plan and to instead offer bidding credits for entities that wish to establish partnerships with public safety. “This plan will facilitate the creation of a nationwide interoperable broadband network for public safety by addressing the cost, which is the most formidable obstacle preventing the deployment of such a network. The beauty of this approach is that it has the potential to provide considerable benefits for our nation’s first responders without upsetting the delicate balance Congress created when it instructed the FCC to auction the spectrum for commercial use,” said Michael Gottdenker, chairman and chief executive officer of Access Spectrum L.L.C. continued below Click Here! Access Spectrum was joined by Pegasus Communications Corp. in pushing for the plan. The companies previously asked the FCC to scrap the band-manager concept and to allow cellular operations in the guard bands. This new proposal by Access Spectrum and Pegasus, filed in the FCC’s proceeding to re-examine the 700 MHz commercial band, seems to take Cyren Call Communications Inc. up on its challenge to develop a nationwide interoperable broadband network for priority use by public safety, but shared by commercial entities in non-crisis times. “Unlike the plan suggested by Cyren Call, this approach does not require legislation to prevent the congressionally-mandated auction and allows multiple service providers the opportunity to bid for the privilege of providing service to the public-safety community,” said Gottdenker. The FCC created two guard bands for spectrum in the 700 MHz band, separating commercial and public-safety uses. One guard band includes a pair of 2-megahertz blocks located at 746-747/776-777 MHz and the other is a pair of 1-megahertz blocks at 762-764/792-794 MHz. The commission decided it didn't want the guard bands to be operated like other commercial spectrum so it created the band-manager concept. The guard-band managers bid for the 52 major economic area licenses in two auctions earlier this decade and were supposed to lease that spectrum to other users. To make sure licensees did not use the spectrum, but rather managed the spectrum by leasing it to others, the FCC allowed band managers to use less than half of the spectrum for internal operations. This prohibition has become cumbersome for the licensees in the band, so early this year the commission asked whether it should be removed. The lack of use in the guard bands also is being revisited because Congress has finally set a date for when TV broadcasters must vacate the spectrum in question. Many believe the uncertainty as to when all of the spectrum could be used has been a disincentive to successful guard-band operations. Cyren Call has asked Congress and the FCC to set aside 30 megahertz of spectrum in the upper 700 MHz band for a public-safety network that the wireless industry would build and share with first responders. Cyren Call envisions a public-private partnership with commercial operators that would underwrite network-infrastructure deployments in the 700 MHz band. First responders and others would have preferential access to the 30 megahertz during emergencies, but would otherwise occupy a very small portion of the network capacity to satisfy day-to-day public-safety requirements. FCC Chairman Kevin Martin told the Democratic members of the Senate Commerce Committee last month that the FCC plans to put the Cyren Call petition out for public comment shortly, but it has yet to happen. In addition to the Cyren Call plan and the Access Spectrum/Pegasus plan, Verizon Wireless has been floating a plan to build a public-safety network, using 12 of the 24 megahertz set aside at 700 MHz for public safety as part of the transition to digital TV. Also, wireless trade association CTIA is examining whether it can develop a plan for commercial/public-safety sharing. Congress has already designated 24 megahertz of the 700 MHz band for public safety; the rest is to be auctioned. The Cyren Call plan would allocate two 15-megahertz chunks-spectrum currently scheduled to be auctioned—on either side of this 24-megahertz public-safety allocation for its public-private partnership. Rather than use the 30 megahertz of spectrum Congress wants auctioned, the alternate plan by Verizon Wireless would focus on the 24 megahertz already allocated to public safety. http://rcrnews.com/news.cms?newsId=27427 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference
Hiya Dustin, I have an Advantest. 9k to 8g. Very nice. When I get another one I'm gonna look for a couple of things. I like the color lcd display, but it needs to be brighter for use in the sun. I'd get one that's got fewer buttons on it. I don't need to decode cell phone calls. Portable with battery backup would be cool. I LOVE the Anritsu units that EC carries. Too bad that the small ones need the frequency converters for our use. I also need to get some more of the super flexible 10' lmr 400 type cable. My last one didn't make it back from the rental Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dustin Jurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference Hey Marlon, This may be a great opportunity for us to help some folks talk about spectrum analyzers here. What are you using today? I'm using the anritsu spectrum master. Expensive but I've been very happy with it. Maybe we should get some bullet points together. Dustin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference I use a spectrum analyzer. It's for rent too :-). EC also has a very nice portable unit (much easier to use) that's available for rent. Or they have them for sale if you're looking for something to keep. I used to use some tools from teletronics but the new version isn't nearly as good. If you just need something that'll give you a ballpark reading they do work better than nothing. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Mike Ireton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference In our neck of the woods we have some areas where 802.11 systems simply do not function, period (and this is across a range of frequency bands and equipment manufacturers). And sometimes, in some limited cases, we will have a sub who appears to be experiencing interference that is much louder than our rssi at the sub (say they have a -63, but they still can't reliably hear the ap well enough for communication) and there's nothing really obvious in the area we can see. We know it's radio interference because we can play the channel flipping game, but we'd like to be better than that and actually diagnose the problem and identify the source and direction of the transmitter creating the problem, so that we can plan better and actually provide a resolution that will last for that sub. We know about spectrum analysis and such and actually own a handy unit (the Spectran) but it doesn't give real time data useful for direction finding. What are some of the other tools (hand held or truck mounted, not built-in firmware features) you folks use for this? If we had a tool that would just give us knowledge about the non-household applications present in these areas (where non-household is anything with a larger gain antenna and/or power output than a cordless phone or wireless access point), we could even go so far as to try and coordinate with those applications for the betterment of everyone. But just waking up one morning and learning a long time customer now has an Interference problem you have no way to resolve other than by terminating the business relationship, just really sucks ass in my opinion. And when you run out of tricks like new antennas, equipment, alignments and such, that's exactly what you're left with. Mike- -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference
Hey Marlon, Here is my anritsu list. Love it, with all the upgrades I can't remember the cost but it was in the same ballpark. 1. 3.0-6 gig attachment is a little annoying because you have to take it on and off. 2. Battery life is Ok, like the care charger, Big brick to lug around on the AC cord. 3. Use in sunlight is great, Buttons work really well and placed in good position. Don't like the interface to label saved sweeps. Kind of like using your cell phone to txt someone. Big pain in the ass. 4. Resolution is really good 5. It's very flexible as far as software options. 6. support is very good. I had lots of questions when we got our first one. They answered them all and did some guiding over the phone. 7. Yearly recalibration is recommended. 8. Durable and light weight. Still need a backpact to carry all of your antenna's around. 9. I've seen better PC software on other units but it's not too bad. Some of the PC based stuff seems better for generic long term stuff but not high resolution scans. Dustin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:40 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference Hiya Dustin, I have an Advantest. 9k to 8g. Very nice. When I get another one I'm gonna look for a couple of things. I like the color lcd display, but it needs to be brighter for use in the sun. I'd get one that's got fewer buttons on it. I don't need to decode cell phone calls. Portable with battery backup would be cool. I LOVE the Anritsu units that EC carries. Too bad that the small ones need the frequency converters for our use. I also need to get some more of the super flexible 10' lmr 400 type cable. My last one didn't make it back from the rental Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Dustin Jurman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:05 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference Hey Marlon, This may be a great opportunity for us to help some folks talk about spectrum analyzers here. What are you using today? I'm using the anritsu spectrum master. Expensive but I've been very happy with it. Maybe we should get some bullet points together. Dustin -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:29 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference I use a spectrum analyzer. It's for rent too :-). EC also has a very nice portable unit (much easier to use) that's available for rent. Or they have them for sale if you're looking for something to keep. I used to use some tools from teletronics but the new version isn't nearly as good. If you just need something that'll give you a ballpark reading they do work better than nothing. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Mike Ireton [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: [WISPA] Diagnosing interference In our neck of the woods we have some areas where 802.11 systems simply do not function, period (and this is across a range of frequency bands and equipment manufacturers). And sometimes, in some limited cases, we will have a sub who appears to be experiencing interference that is much louder than our rssi at the sub (say they have a -63, but they still can't reliably hear the ap well enough for communication) and there's nothing really obvious in the area we can see. We know it's radio interference because we can play the channel flipping game, but we'd like to be better than that and actually diagnose the problem and identify the source and direction of the transmitter creating the problem, so that we can plan better and actually provide a resolution that will last for that sub. We know about spectrum analysis and such and actually own a handy unit (the Spectran) but it doesn't give real time data useful for direction finding. What are some of the other tools (hand held or truck mounted, not built-in firmware features) you folks use for this? If we had a tool that would just give us knowledge about the non-household applications present in these areas (where non-household is
Re: [WISPA] Legal insight?
- Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem to be willing to pull out all of the stops on this. Clear down to a 60 Minutes exploding gas tank version of the truth. And because we, as an industry, aren't good at filling out our 477s we're not even give pimple on the but status these days. The current chairman at the FCC has turned out to be far less of a fan of the entrepenure than Powell was and that's not gonna help either. 1+ - Are there realistic options for WISPs to get licensed bands? mks: Not at this time. I know people have done so. But lets look at the real numbers here. Last I heard the latest auction raised 14 billion dollars. Lets say that over the next 5 years that spectrum services, oh, 500,000 subscribers. That's 28,000 per subscriber! At a profit of $10 per broadband subscriber per month that gives us a 2,800 month payback on the investment. Heck, get 1,000,000 subs and it's still not gonna add up to anything but another huge dent in the broadband rollout. Auctions only do two things. They put money into the government coffers and took $14,000,000,000 out of the equipment, labor, marketing, etc. markets. Auctions don't work for the consumer. Only for the government, and once in a great while, the speculator. 2 - Do I have to cooperate with other area WISP? mks: You don't HAVE to. But it's a very good idea. Remember, the ultimate goal should be to service customers. Anything you do to screw up your competitors also makes YOUR system look bad. 1 - Is there such a thing as malicious interference? mks: You bet. Fortunately, it's quite rare. 8 - Does any other WISP or operator have any priority over me with
[WISPA] wave wireless
I just happened to read the announcement on the wave wireless site regarding Charles Browns resignation and the companys considering the sale of certain product lines and business units This along with the recent merger leaves me feeling a little uneasy about WW. Does anyone have any insight regarding the stability of the company? c -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem to be willing to pull out all of the stops on this. Clear down to a 60 Minutes exploding gas tank version of the truth. And because we, as an industry, aren't good at filling out our 477s we're not even give pimple on the but status these days. The current chairman at the FCC has turned out to be far less of a fan of the entrepenure than Powell was and that's not gonna help either. 1+ - Are there realistic options for WISPs to get licensed bands? mks: Not at this time. I know people have done so. But lets look at the real numbers here. Last I heard the latest auction raised 14 billion dollars. Lets say that over the next 5 years that spectrum services, oh, 500,000 subscribers. That's 28,000 per subscriber! At a profit of $10 per broadband subscriber per month that gives us a 2,800 month payback on the investment. Heck, get 1,000,000 subs and it's still not gonna add up to anything but another huge dent in the broadband rollout. Auctions only do two things. They put money
RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
When I read the otard rules it seems to me that they CAN stop you from mounting on the roof. The only place you could mount was tenant exclusive areas. Basically the balcony attached to the apartment. I hope I misread it though. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem to be willing to pull out all of the stops on this. Clear down to a 60 Minutes exploding gas tank version of the truth. And because we, as an industry, aren't good at filling out our 477s we're not even give pimple on the but status these days. The current chairman at the FCC has turned out to be far less of a fan of the entrepenure than Powell was and that's not gonna help either. 1+ - Are there realistic options for WISPs to get licensed bands? mks: Not at this time. I know
Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
OTARD is all well and good, but that doesn't help you with MTUs or MDUs. OTARD only applies to areas of exclusive control by the tenant. That means common areas such as roofs of apartment and office buildings are not affected by OTARD. In cases where OTARD does apply, the property manage has the burden to prove that it doesn't by filling with the FCC. One can quickly (and cheaply) get a court order forcing the issue with the landlord until the FCC responds. Remember, FCC regulations trump all local jurisdictions. -Matt Chad Halsted wrote: Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem to be willing to pull out all of the stops on this. Clear down to a 60 Minutes exploding gas tank version of the truth. And because we, as an industry, aren't good at filling out our 477s we're not even give pimple on the but status these days. The current chairman at the FCC has turned out to be far less of a fan of the entrepenure than Powell was and that's not gonna help either. 1+ - Are there realistic options for WISPs to get
Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
The first thing to determine, is whether your case is covered by OTARD. (space controlled by the tenant, and not condo). If it is, you don't fight it out with the property owners or homeowner associations, you just go install it. You have the right to install, and then the property owner can try and fight it, if they want to. But the secret is to put the burden on them, and NOT the DELAY on you. If confronted, hand them the OTARD papers andtell them to call the FCC if they have questions, and if they touch your stuff, they are violating FCC Federal regulations. But the catch here is that you need to be certain you meet the requirement of what Otard covers. Where the problem come in is what the value of broadband is and the value of time. A home owner doesn;t want to have to be a lawyer or a protester to get Internet service. If they have to create a commotion, they often will just back out, regardless of whether they are legal allowed to deploy. Nobody wants hassle. So you have to keep the hassle from the subscriber. As far as MTU building and shared space, they win the ball is in their court. The sooner one learns that the better. Start making friends, and start finding value for the property owner, because it can be a timely battle. In our case it was the largest source of time spent in the company that was unanticipated in our early years. So rule one, don't waste time fighting it, just follow the rules, and run with them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Chad Halsted [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year?
Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
I haven't had to. But I've heard of people pulling out the OTARD rules and waving them in front of landlords. The rule originally was there for sat. services etc. But it's been expanded to wisp services etc. You are limited to areas that are exclusively in the control of the tenant. So, yeah, decks etc. What you can't do, is force an AP type situation. I've not heard of a ruling on mesh systems yet. I'd think they'd fall under the rules as a broadcast site and not be covered under otard. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Chad Halsted [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem to be
RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
Many WISPs have fought the OTARD battle over the years. I'm not sure I recall of one that lost if they knew the rules. OTARD is a federal act that pre-empts state and local rules. Patrick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING that the FCC does, rules wise, comes from the written reccord. If you don't voice your thoughts they CAN'T legally act on them. And it has to be in writing, you can't just call in and tell them what you want them to do. 3 - What the deal with the TV bands? mks: I'm loosing hope on this one. The broadcasters are very powerful. And they seem to be willing to pull out all of the stops on this. Clear down to a 60 Minutes exploding gas tank version of the truth. And because we, as an industry, aren't good at filling out our 477s we're not even give pimple on the but status these days. The current chairman at the FCC has turned out to be far less of a fan of the entrepenure than Powell was and that's not gonna help either. 1+ - Are there realistic options for WISPs to get licensed bands? mks: Not at this time. I know people have done so. But lets look at the real numbers here. Last I heard the latest
RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
Mike, they can prevent you from roof mounting if it is a multi-tenant, multi-floor sort of building. If your customer rents a townhouse style, you should have access. Maybe they can prevent you from holing the roof itself for under some loop hole that protects them from risks to the structure, but certainly they could not prevent an eave mount. 100% they cannot prevent a mount on a subscribers' balcony. Here is the FCC factsheet on the issue: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Bushard, Jr Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:42 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers When I read the otard rules it seems to me that they CAN stop you from mounting on the roof. The only place you could mount was tenant exclusive areas. Basically the balcony attached to the apartment. I hope I misread it though. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they put out for us last year? I hope not. 1 - Does the FCC really read comments I file on anything? mks: Yes. Even the late filings. 3 How important (and difficult) is it for me to officially voice my comments? mks: Within WISPA it's easy. When we find out about issues that mater to the industry we file on the issue. We also point out EXACTLY how our membership can also file on the issue. EVERYTHING
RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
...and 100% they CAN prevent mesh, repeater, or other AP mount. Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick Leary Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 3:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Mike, they can prevent you from roof mounting if it is a multi-tenant, multi-floor sort of building. If your customer rents a townhouse style, you should have access. Maybe they can prevent you from holing the roof itself for under some loop hole that protects them from risks to the structure, but certainly they could not prevent an eave mount. 100% they cannot prevent a mount on a subscribers' balcony. Here is the FCC factsheet on the issue: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Bushard, Jr Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:42 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers When I read the otard rules it seems to me that they CAN stop you from mounting on the roof. The only place you could mount was tenant exclusive areas. Basically the balcony attached to the apartment. I hope I misread it though. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is certified to work within certain parameters. Note: I did NOT say work as advertized :-). 8 - Don't the revised rules allow me to make the choice about what base station antennas I wish to use? mks: Yes. 3 - How is 3650 coming along and how do it look like it will shape up? mks: Great question. I sure wish I could get something out of the FCC. Sinces it's an issue on the table at this time they won't talk to me. Will they change the rules that they
[WISPA] Battery backups at auction
http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auction/view?auctionId=970561convertTo=USD I've used these. Good stuff. The batteries aren't too expensive. I think I put $150 or so into the last one I rebuilt. Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon
So the AP will deliver 14Mbps of bandwidth even if all the SM's are only running at 1x rate? Travis Microserv Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: Run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's. With the Advantage AP's and legacy SM's you get the Latency, and High Priority Channel all the time, and can burst to full 2X Rate. If you need the full 2x Rate Sustained, buy an Advantage SM. To answer your question, yes the Advantage AP will deliver the full 14Mb Aggregate. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon Another quick question... If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)? Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular? Travis Microserv Anthony Will wrote: Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has traditionally understated there spec sheets. The GPS is what sets the timing for the AP's. The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all SM's registered to them. So how it works is that all AP's on channel 1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same time. Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and AP to a BH or AP. The lag that is introduced by having to transmit that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is the only time that distance can come into play. The application this is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower. /SM GPS --AP#1 / \ \SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#2 --SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#3 (this AP will be out of sync with AP#1) Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to propagate the timing signal. But if you put a GPS sync generating device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough timing with AP#2 that they all would get along. One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost of the GPS synchronizing items. Also again as for the distance statement. 6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced. believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6 away from it. The two AP's that are back to back share the same channel so that when they transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other. The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without self interference. If long range rural deployments are the plan then GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the same equipment and configuration in the area. So a Moto advantage cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP bandwidth available to it. If more is needed you can place the towers with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same tower. I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a little late in the night but if you wanted to I could talk to you over the phone and explain it. Send me an email to anthonyw (at) broadband-mn.com and Ill give you my cell phone number or give you a call. Anthony Will Broadband Corp. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, First, the spec sheet on Motorola's website says -86 RSSI. What happens when you have more than 3 towers outside of the 8 mile range of GPS sync? The 2.4ghz signal will definately travel that far, causing self-interference, correct? Travis Microserv Anthony Will wrote: Answers in-line Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, I'd like to go back to the specs on different radios just so I can compare for myself... Trango 2.4ghz: 5Mbps auto ratio 8 non-overlapping channels 10mhz spectrum per channel -90 Receive level 15 mile range (without a grid) External connector and dual-pol integrated antenna $879 AP (WISP price) $479 SU (WISP price) Canopy 2.4ghz (regular): 7Mbps fixed ratio 3 non-overlapping channels
RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon
Not the case, 14 mbps is 2x mode, but the only reason for all your Sm's would be a 1x would be cause they are old radios (p7,p8) or you have very poor links ... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon So the AP will deliver 14Mbps of bandwidth even if all the SM's are only running at 1x rate? Travis Microserv Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: Run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's. With the Advantage AP's and legacy SM's you get the Latency, and High Priority Channel all the time, and can burst to full 2X Rate. If you need the full 2x Rate Sustained, buy an Advantage SM. To answer your question, yes the Advantage AP will deliver the full 14Mb Aggregate. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon Another quick question... If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)? Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular? Travis Microserv Anthony Will wrote: Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has traditionally understated there spec sheets. The GPS is what sets the timing for the AP's. The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all SM's registered to them. So how it works is that all AP's on channel 1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same time. Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and AP to a BH or AP. The lag that is introduced by having to transmit that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is the only time that distance can come into play. The application this is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower. /SM GPS --AP#1 / \ \SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#2 --SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#3 (this AP will be out of sync with AP#1) Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to propagate the timing signal. But if you put a GPS sync generating device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough timing with AP#2 that they all would get along. One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost of the GPS synchronizing items. Also again as for the distance statement. 6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced. believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6 away from it. The two AP's that are back to back share the same channel so that when they transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other. The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without self interference. If long range rural deployments are the plan then GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the same equipment and configuration in the area. So a Moto advantage cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP bandwidth available to it. If more is needed you can place the towers with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same tower. I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a little late in the night but if you wanted to I could talk to you over the phone and explain it. Send me an email to anthonyw (at) broadband-mn.com and Ill give you my cell phone number or give you a call. Anthony Will Broadband Corp. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, First, the spec sheet on Motorola's website says -86 RSSI. What happens when you have more than 3 towers outside of the 8 mile range of GPS sync? The 2.4ghz signal will definately travel that far, causing self-interference, correct? Travis
Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon
Hi, Don't you have to have like a -65 or better signal to get 2x rate? Travis Microserv Gino A. Villarini wrote: Not the case, 14 mbps is 2x mode, but the only reason for all your Sm's would be a 1x would be cause they are old radios (p7,p8) or you have very poor links ... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon So the AP will deliver 14Mbps of bandwidth even if all the SM's are only running at 1x rate? Travis Microserv Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: Run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's. With the Advantage AP's and legacy SM's you get the Latency, and High Priority Channel all the time, and can burst to full 2X Rate. If you need the full 2x Rate Sustained, buy an Advantage SM. To answer your question, yes the Advantage AP will deliver the full 14Mb Aggregate. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon Another quick question... If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)? Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular? Travis Microserv Anthony Will wrote: Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has traditionally understated there spec sheets. The GPS is what sets the timing for the AP's. The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all SM's registered to them. So how it works is that all AP's on channel 1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same time. Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and AP to a BH or AP. The lag that is introduced by having to transmit that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is the only time that distance can come into play. The application this is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower. /SM GPS --AP#1 / \ \SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#2 --SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#3 (this AP will be out of sync with AP#1) Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to propagate the timing signal. But if you put a GPS sync generating device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough timing with AP#2 that they all would get along. One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost of the GPS synchronizing items. Also again as for the distance statement. 6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced. believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6 away from it. The two AP's that are back to back share the same channel so that when they transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other. The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without self interference. If long range rural deployments are the plan then GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the same equipment and configuration in the area. So a Moto advantage cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP bandwidth available to it. If more is needed you can place the towers with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same tower. I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a little late in the night but if you wanted to I could talk to you over the phone and explain it. Send me an email to anthonyw (at) broadband-mn.com and Ill give you my cell phone number or give you a call. Anthony Will Broadband Corp. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, First, the spec sheet on Motorola's website says -86 RSSI. What happens when you have more than 3 towers outside of
Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers
I did direct tv for years. Still do. You really have to read the rules to do a install and be sure you are in the clear. For instance, you can not just bolt a satellite arm on the wall even if it is not a common area. Thats why you see alot of 5 gallon buckets of concrete with pipes in them. From memory I do not think you are allowed to drill through the wall either. I used to use a 6 or so flat cable coupler that the window would close on. I would try to do the install in the late evenings after the managment office closed and leave a copy of the Otard rule with the tennant with my phone# on the front of it. Joe Superior Wireless New Orleans,La. www.superior1.com - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 5:19 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Mike, they can prevent you from roof mounting if it is a multi-tenant, multi-floor sort of building. If your customer rents a townhouse style, you should have access. Maybe they can prevent you from holing the roof itself for under some loop hole that protects them from risks to the structure, but certainly they could not prevent an eave mount. 100% they cannot prevent a mount on a subscribers' balcony. Here is the FCC factsheet on the issue: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html Patrick Leary AVP WISP Markets Alvarion, Inc. o: 650.314.2628 c: 760.580.0080 Vonage: 650.641.1243 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Bushard, Jr Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:42 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers When I read the otard rules it seems to me that they CAN stop you from mounting on the roof. The only place you could mount was tenant exclusive areas. Basically the balcony attached to the apartment. I hope I misread it though. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Legal insight? - OTARD VS Property Managers Marlon, Just curious, have you ever had to force this issue with property management? I imagine this could be a difficult fight to win for a WISP. What happens at the end of the day when the Property Manager tells the WISP to shove off? Legal action? For what, potential lost subscribers? - Can property managers prevent my subscribers from having an externally mounted antenna? mks: No. OTARD covers wisps too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:13 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Legal insight? - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: [WISPA] Legal insight? This outta be a fun and interesting thread: mks: You are one mean drunk, Superman! As it relates to this space, rate the following 1-10 (1 being high priority and 10 being I could care a less) in terms of important if you could bend the mind of top legal experts to get an opinion. Add other questions you like answered in your reply. mks: I guess I'm a bit confused. Those are not really 1 thru 10 type questions. Those are questions begging answers. I'll try to do both though. Comment or add to this list: - What good is Form 477 mks: It's the ONLY official head count of broadband customers. 1 and do we really need to file it? mks: Absolutely. Without known customers we have NO value in the food chain. The more customers we have the more power we have. 1 - Does CALEA affect me? mks: Still trying to figure that one out. I've got a note in to the FCC for some clarification on this issue. 3 How? When? How do I solve it without it costing an arm and a leg? mks: Not only that, but it is really any of MY buisiness what my customers do on the net? If someone thinks there's a problem with a customer, come to me with a search warrent and the needed tools for the search (just like you would come to my house) and have fun. No one is going to want everything they've ever done on the internet saved forever. That's the kind of silly crap that the Nazis and Soviets did. Look where it got them. 2 - What's the real risk, if any, of not using certified systems? mks: Realistically? Little or no risk. Although, under the rules changes from 2005 it's pretty hard to be out of certification these days. Power levels, that's a whole nother issue though. Gotta pay attention to them! 5 - What does it mean to have a certified system in the first place? mks: It means that ALL of your radio gear, clear down to the cable level, has made it past the FCC and is
[WISPA] SurfSpeed
Its a cool Idea. Primarilly because it allows many users to contribute and has a standard method of comparisons. But not sure how accurate though. My results beat Verizon and Comcast. But my speed was still only 54 KBps (432kbps). I was testing from a 100mbps fiber connection and a 1.7Ghz Celeron PC. I think these tests are effected more by the PC's CPU power than the Internet connection :-( Its also odd, that the comparison tables show Covad at only 4 KBps, less than satelite. Also, its not politically correct that they do not LIST WiFi or Fixed Wireless as an Connection Options. In my mind it instantly unvalidates a company that doesn't understand that Wireless is 2-8% of the market today and worth recognizing. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon
I have 2x links at -78 and so Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon Hi, Don't you have to have like a -65 or better signal to get 2x rate? Travis Microserv Gino A. Villarini wrote: Not the case, 14 mbps is 2x mode, but the only reason for all your Sm's would be a 1x would be cause they are old radios (p7,p8) or you have very poor links ... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon So the AP will deliver 14Mbps of bandwidth even if all the SM's are only running at 1x rate? Travis Microserv Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: Run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's. With the Advantage AP's and legacy SM's you get the Latency, and High Priority Channel all the time, and can burst to full 2X Rate. If you need the full 2x Rate Sustained, buy an Advantage SM. To answer your question, yes the Advantage AP will deliver the full 14Mb Aggregate. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon Another quick question... If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)? Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular? Travis Microserv Anthony Will wrote: Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has traditionally understated there spec sheets. The GPS is what sets the timing for the AP's. The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all SM's registered to them. So how it works is that all AP's on channel 1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same time. Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and AP to a BH or AP. The lag that is introduced by having to transmit that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is the only time that distance can come into play. The application this is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower. /SM GPS --AP#1 / \ \SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#2 --SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#3 (this AP will be out of sync with AP#1) Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to propagate the timing signal. But if you put a GPS sync generating device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough timing with AP#2 that they all would get along. One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost of the GPS synchronizing items. Also again as for the distance statement. 6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced. believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6 away from it. The two AP's that are back to back share the same channel so that when they transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other. The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without self interference. If long range rural deployments are the plan then GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the same equipment and configuration in the area. So a Moto advantage cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP bandwidth available to it. If more is needed you can place the towers with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same tower. I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a little late in the night but if you wanted to I
Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon
Ok. thanks for the information. Travis Microserv Gino A. Villarini wrote: I have 2x links at -78 and so Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:22 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon Hi, Don't you have to have like a -65 or better signal to get 2x rate? Travis Microserv Gino A. Villarini wrote: Not the case, 14 mbps is 2x mode, but the only reason for all your Sm's would be a 1x would be cause they are old radios (p7,p8) or you have very poor links ... Gino A. Villarini [EMAIL PROTECTED] Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. tel 787.273.4143 fax 787.273.4145 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon So the AP will deliver 14Mbps of bandwidth even if all the SM's are only running at 1x rate? Travis Microserv Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: Run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's. With the Advantage AP's and legacy SM's you get the Latency, and High Priority Channel all the time, and can burst to full 2X Rate. If you need the full 2x Rate Sustained, buy an Advantage SM. To answer your question, yes the Advantage AP will deliver the full 14Mb Aggregate. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon Another quick question... If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)? Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular? Travis Microserv Anthony Will wrote: Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has traditionally understated there spec sheets. The GPS is what sets the timing for the AP's. The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all SM's registered to them. So how it works is that all AP's on channel 1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same time. Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and AP to a BH or AP. The lag that is introduced by having to transmit that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is the only time that distance can come into play. The application this is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower. /SM GPS --AP#1 / \ \SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#2 --SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#3 (this AP will be out of sync with AP#1) Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to propagate the timing signal. But if you put a GPS sync generating device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough timing with AP#2 that they all would get along. One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost of the GPS synchronizing items. Also again as for the distance statement. 6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced. believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6 away from it. The two AP's that are back to back share the same channel so that when they transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other. The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without self interference. If long range rural deployments are the plan then GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the same equipment and configuration in the area. So a Moto advantage cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP bandwidth available to it. If more is needed you can place the towers with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same tower. I can't write out
RE: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon
If you are buying all new hardware (P9) it will all do 2X rate (14Mbps). We run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's, here's why: With the Advantage AP you it will fun full 2X 14Mbps all the time. Legacy SM's will run Full 2x Rate for the duration of the burst setting in the SM, alter the Burt bucket is expended it will rate limit itself to a max 7Mbps, Still run in 2x rate but it limits the Ethernet port throughput. It is kind of confusing at first. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon So the AP will deliver 14Mbps of bandwidth even if all the SM's are only running at 1x rate? Travis Microserv Mike Bushard, Jr wrote: Run Advantage AP's and Legacy SM's. With the Advantage AP's and legacy SM's you get the Latency, and High Priority Channel all the time, and can burst to full 2X Rate. If you need the full 2x Rate Sustained, buy an Advantage SM. To answer your question, yes the Advantage AP will deliver the full 14Mb Aggregate. Mike Bushard, Jr Wisper Wireless Solutions, LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Travis Johnson Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 11:51 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] vendor specs -- Jon Another quick question... If you are running a Canopy Advantage AP and you use regular Canopy SM's, can the AP still deliver the 14Mbps of bandwidth, or will it be limited to 7Mbps (like the SM's)? Trying to decide if I want to use Advantage SM's or just regular? Travis Microserv Anthony Will wrote: Well I have had 2.4ghz radio's link up at -89db (not very well mind you but...) so I don't know what to tell you other then Moto has traditionally understated there spec sheets. The GPS is what sets the timing for the AP's. The AP's coordinate the timing slots for all SM's registered to them. So how it works is that all AP's on channel 1 across the world all transmit at the same time, and all SM's synced to a AP on channel 1 with GPS timing from the AP listen at the same time. Distance is not relevant unless you are utilizing the feature set of the SM to retransmit a GPS sync pulse that it receives from and AP to a BH or AP. The lag that is introduced by having to transmit that pulse info across the wireless link to the SM retransmitting is the only time that distance can come into play. The application this is used for is for a cheap repeater system so that you dont have to have a GPS synchronizing device at every tower. /SM GPS --AP#1 / \ \SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#2 --SM (retransmitting GPS sync pulse) --AP#3 (this AP will be out of sync with AP#1) Basically the timing is measured in nano seconds so it takes to long for RF to transmit the data across the wireless links to continue to propagate the timing signal. But if you put a GPS sync generating device at AP#3 it would be in perfect time with AP#1 and close enough timing with AP#2 that they all would get along. One thing to keep in mind is if you are the only Canopy shop in the area you can have your AP's generate the sync pulse and avoid the cost of the GPS synchronizing items. Also again as for the distance statement. 6 AP's in a cluster sharing 3 channels have to be synced. believe me the messy antenna on the Canopy units dont have a good enough F/B ratio to not hear another AP 6 away from it. The two AP's that are back to back share the same channel so that when they transmit the SM's that are listening are as far away from each other as possible and thus reduce any chance of talking over each other. The largest benefit that GPS sync allows is to add additional capacity to area's by allowing for more towers to be in a smaller area without self interference. If long range rural deployments are the plan then GPS sync will only benefit you if you have competitors utilizing the same equipment and configuration in the area. So a Moto advantage cluster has about 84mb total (Classic Canopy would be 42mb) FTP bandwidth available to it. If more is needed you can place the towers with in a few miles and divide a cell into two micro cells each with a possible 84mb of total bandwidth for a total of 168mb serviced to a given area. One last note, GPS timing will not allow for two separate clusters of the same type ( two 2.4ghz clusters) to be on the same tower. I can't write out whats in my head on this getting a little late in the night but if you wanted to I could talk to you over the phone and explain it. Send me an email to anthonyw (at) broadband-mn.com and Ill give you my cell phone number or give you a call. Anthony Will Broadband Corp. Travis Johnson wrote: Hi, First, the spec
