Re: [WISPA] Board of Directors, Tell us about your Networks

2008-07-07 Thread John Scrivner 
On Sun, Jul 6, 2008 at 2:14 PM, John McDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd like to know how each and everyone of the Board of Directors runs
> his/her network:
>
> Routers?

Imagestream Core and Mikrotik Edge - Star OS routing for 2.4 APs

>
> Billing Software?

Emerald

>
> VoIP?

Noe yet. Evaluating options.



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Re: [WISPA] POE

2008-07-07 Thread Mac Dearman 
Wayne,

  They may just have a really good salesman and an uninformed board. Someone
is leading that circus and that is where you will find the "man behind the
curtain" who is making the decisions.

Mac

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 3:37 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] POE
> 
> Cameron-
> 
> First, it is costing us $90,000 for equipment and installation.
> Second, they just had installed a brand new telephone/intercom system-
> non
> VoIP :(
> Third, I am told the PoE capability is for the
> 'future'
> What future is what no one can tell  me/explain.
> 
> Walter
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 7/7/2008 8:20:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> Easy  really, more and more locations including schools are using VoIP
> systems  for internal phone systems. So opposed to have a power pack
> for
> each phone,  it is all just provided via the switch. Easier to manage
> for
> the sys admin  in charge. Also certain PoE switches can power their
> Remote AP's for the in  school wifi. There are a bunch of advantages as
> far as flexibility and  management, but for the most part, not always
> needed, but hey, it's just  your tax money paying for it after
> allhaha.
> 
> They are probably  saying it's going to cost 50K to cover up other
> items
> they are buying, your  right, it shouldn't be that much. Keep in mind,
> when they buy these units,  they also list the retail price for the
> equipment instead of what they  actually pay for it most of the time.
> 
> -Cameron
> 
> -Original  Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent:  Sunday, July 06, 2008 10:30 PM
> To: wireless@wispa.org
> Subject: [WISPA]  POE
> 
> Can someone explain why a school would want to pay $1900@ for 25  48-
> port
> 
> 10/100/1000 switches with PoE capability for a possible future  need
> versus
> $500-600 for a plain 48-port 10/100/1000  switch?  No one that I can
> find
> has a
> reason except maybe it would  be needed in 5 years.
> 
> Second question, replacing 48 24-port  10/100 switches with the above
> 48-port
> ones, can anyone explain why it  should cost almost $50,000?  I  cannot
> imagine how it would take  even 2 days to do, let alone any tests that
> would be so
> elaborate  and/or expensive.  [My geek son and a few of his  friends
> thought  it
> would take them a day at $100@ plus lunch and extra Diet Dr   Pepper]
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Walter
> 
> 
> Walter W.  Stumpf  Jr.
> Xanadu Group Inc.
> 179 Statesville Quarry Road
> Lafayette NJ   07848-3128 USA
> 973-702-3899
> fax   775-667-1995
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **Gas prices getting you down?  Search AOL Autos for
> fuel-efficient used  cars.
> (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut000507)
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] POE

2008-07-07 Thread WWS2 
Cameron-
 
First, it is costing us $90,000 for equipment and installation.
Second, they just had installed a brand new telephone/intercom system-non  
VoIP :(
Third, I am told the PoE capability is for the  'future'  
What future is what no one can tell  me/explain.
 
Walter
 
 
 
In a message dated 7/7/2008 8:20:32 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Easy  really, more and more locations including schools are using VoIP
systems  for internal phone systems. So opposed to have a power pack for
each phone,  it is all just provided via the switch. Easier to manage for
the sys admin  in charge. Also certain PoE switches can power their
Remote AP's for the in  school wifi. There are a bunch of advantages as
far as flexibility and  management, but for the most part, not always
needed, but hey, it's just  your tax money paying for it after
allhaha.

They are probably  saying it's going to cost 50K to cover up other items
they are buying, your  right, it shouldn't be that much. Keep in mind,
when they buy these units,  they also list the retail price for the
equipment instead of what they  actually pay for it most of the time. 

-Cameron

-Original  Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:  Sunday, July 06, 2008 10:30 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA]  POE

Can someone explain why a school would want to pay $1900@ for 25  48-port

10/100/1000 switches with PoE capability for a possible future  need
versus  
$500-600 for a plain 48-port 10/100/1000  switch?  No one that I can find
has a 
reason except maybe it would  be needed in 5 years.

Second question, replacing 48 24-port  10/100 switches with the above
48-port 
ones, can anyone explain why it  should cost almost $50,000?  I  cannot 
imagine how it would take  even 2 days to do, let alone any tests that
would be so 
elaborate  and/or expensive.  [My geek son and a few of his  friends
thought  it 
would take them a day at $100@ plus lunch and extra Diet Dr   Pepper]

Thanks!

Walter  


Walter W.  Stumpf  Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ   07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax   775-667-1995




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Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

2008-07-07 Thread Mike Hammett 
That sounds great.  I know I talked to someone from Aperto before, but could 
someone hit me up offlist?  Since Airspan does this as well, could someone 
from there?


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: "jeffrey thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz


> Scottie,
>
> We already do that. We have a sliding scale licensing model that starts
> at
> 16 CPE per sector. I know one other competitor that does this as well (
> Airspan )
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Booher
>
> Channel Manager, North America
> www.apertonet.com
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 24/7: 206-455-4950
>
>
> On Sun,  6 Jul 2008 19:10:03 -0500, "Scottie Arnett"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>> It would be great if this worked for everyone, everywhere. Still vendors
>> are missing the point in many cases. Every place does NOT have a
>> potential for 1000 subs (there is not a 1000 homes in the town I live),
>> nor is every place FLAT that can be reached with service for 1000 subs. I
>> have 4 900 Mhz AP's on 4 seperate towers just to cover 150 people in one
>> county we service. I could not cover that many with 4 of your 3.65Ghz,
>> too many hills.
>>
>> Build me an AP that I can buy with licenses for a certain amount of
>> subscribers. Charge me less than $10,000(or whatever yours cost, it will
>> definately be higher than my 900Mhz AP) for that AP, then I will buy into
>> your 3.65. The vendors are taking the same stance as the FCC on these
>> rural areas, forget about them...no money to be made there. Hey even
>> rural folks need broadband too, after all we are people just like in the
>> big cities...only thing is, it doesn't take us an hour or longer to get
>> to work everyday. :)
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "jeffrey thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Sun, 06 Jul 2008 11:45:08 -0700
>>
>>
>> >Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
>> >
>> >1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector
>> >configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver
>> >approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is
>> >supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same
>>
>> >Aperto Networks, Inc
>> >Channel Manager, North America
>> >www.apertonet.com
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >24/7: 206-455-4950
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:14:44 -0500, "Mike Hammett"
>> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>> >> Increased spectral efficiency
>> >> Advanced antenna support (the only benefit I understand is increased
>> >> signal
>> >> margin)
>> >> Higher likelihood of multiple vendors vs. many previous BWA 
>> >> technologies,
>> >> though not now
>> >> Eventual lower CPE cost, though not now
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Mike Hammett
>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> >> http://www.ics-il.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - Original Message - 
>> >> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> >> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:55 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > What is your opinion about the greatness of WiMax based upon?
>> >> >
>> >> > - Original Message - 
>> >> > From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> > To: "WISPA General List" 
>> >> > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:19 AM
>> >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>I believe that WiMax is great...  greater than equipment we 
>> >> >>currently use.
>> >> >> I just don't use it at this time because of the cost.  I also don't 
>> >> >> buy
>> >> >> into
>> >> >> a lot of the hype people (press, manufacturers, vendors, others) 
>> >> >> are
>> >> >> pushing.  I had a project that required 10 meg of synchronous, 
>> >> >> committed
>> >> >> bandwidth per customer.  I was told (by more than one group) 
>> >> >> because of
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> WiMax magic, I could put 2 - 3 customers on equipment capable of 23 
>> >> >> megs.
>> >> >> Sorry, you simply cannot put 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound box, no
>> >> >> matter
>> >> >> the magic.  Other than Mikrotik, only the AN-80i would have been 
>> >> >> worth
>> >> >> it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I do appreciate the FCC's requirement of equipment getting along 
>> >> >> with
>> >> >> dissimilar equipment.  Who knows when we'll have another Canopy or
>> >> >> Tsunami
>> >> >> introduced that just doesn't play well with others.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Mike Hammett
>> >> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> >> >> http://www.ics-il.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> - Original Message - 
>> >> >> From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:38 PM
>> >

Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

2008-07-07 Thread Bo Ring 
Sorry, I crossed my lines. Microcom has an Omni H-Pol. Pac does have  
the H-pol sectors, but I understand about their delivery issues. I  
really understand that part all too well.


On Jul 7, 2008, at 4:03 PM, Jason Hensley wrote:


It's not H-pol.  Given the problems with PacWireless meeting delivery
expectations lately, I was hoping for someone else.

What about a 120* H-pol sector (5.8GHz)?  Anyone?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
On

Behalf Of Bo Ring
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 3:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

Pac Wireless makes a solid one.

http://www.pacwireless.com/products/OD5x.shtml


On Jul 7, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Jason Hensley wrote:


Suggestions for a 5GHz H-pol Omni then?






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<>

Bo Ring
Account Manager
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cell: 630-743-1162 • office: 312-205-2515
16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 • tel: 773.667.4585  
fax: 773.326.4641






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Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

2008-07-07 Thread Jason Hensley 
It's not H-pol.  Given the problems with PacWireless meeting delivery
expectations lately, I was hoping for someone else.  

What about a 120* H-pol sector (5.8GHz)?  Anyone?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bo Ring
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 3:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

Pac Wireless makes a solid one.

http://www.pacwireless.com/products/OD5x.shtml


On Jul 7, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Jason Hensley wrote:

> Suggestions for a 5GHz H-pol Omni then?





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Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

2008-07-07 Thread Kurt Fankhauser 
Think he was looking for HPOL

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
P.O. Box 126
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bo Ring
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 4:59 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

Pac Wireless makes a solid one.

http://www.pacwireless.com/products/OD5x.shtml


On Jul 7, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Jason Hensley wrote:

> Suggestions for a 5GHz H-pol Omni then?





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Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

2008-07-07 Thread Bo Ring 

Pac Wireless makes a solid one.

http://www.pacwireless.com/products/OD5x.shtml


On Jul 7, 2008, at 12:45 PM, Jason Hensley wrote:


Suggestions for a 5GHz H-pol Omni then?


<>

Bo Ring
Account Manager
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cell: 630-743-1162 • office: 312-205-2515
16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 • tel: 773.667.4585  
fax: 773.326.4641






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Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

2008-07-07 Thread Drew Lentz 
We operated in 2.5/6 with Navini and saw some great results. I know that 
it is a different monster than 3.65, but I guess the point that I was 
trying to make was the overall difference in using a robust product, 
like what's available in 3.65, vs using off the shelf or even Moto 900. 
I completely understand the terrain variance in the different parts of 
the US and as such, the signal prop will vary based on the type of 
deployment, the area of coverage, etc. However, what I have seen and 
heard in the 3.65 space excites me because of the characteristics of the 
equipment, the available power, and the amount of bandwidth available to 
the end-user. I agree that the jury is still out because of the lack of 
large-scale deployments, but I really like what I am seeing and hearing 
so far.

While 900 is a killer freq to have in areas like you were speaking of, 
because of its propagation through high forestation etc, a small micro 
cell deployment of 3.65 in those same areas can yield higher throughputs 
and greater availability of low-cost CPE (when they get approved and on 
the market) to the end-users.  I guess I'm just a fan of larger systems :)

-d


jeffrey thomas wrote:
> Jack,
>
> Drew is an operator who is already deployed with Airspan, I believe.
> Is this correct Drew? 
>
> Yes, forested areas always present a challenge, whether its 900, 700,
> 3.65ghz,
> 5.8ghz, etc etc.
>
> -
> Jeff Booher
>
> Channel Manager, North America
> www.apertonet.com
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 24/7: 206-455-4950 
>
>
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:53:12 -0700, "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> said:
>   
>> Drew,
>>
>> Are you drawing your conclusions based on 3.65 deployments in other 
>> parts of the world? I ask because it's hard to imagine that there are 
>> already enough 3.65 deployments in the U.S. to draw all your conclusions.
>>
>> Also, physics is still physics. Even given advanced antenna systems, 
>> nLOS and NLOS performance at 3.65 is still going to be limited by hills 
>> and trees. No matter how advanced the APs and antenna systems, I find it 
>> very hard to believe that 3.65 is going to approach the performance of 
>> 900 MHz inside of (or on the other side of) a forested area.
>>
>>
>> jack
>>
>>
>> Drew Lentz wrote:
>> 
>>> I completely disagree with you on this topic. 3.65 makes a great play in 
>>> a rural setting. I have spoken with many different groups who are 
>>> capitalizing exactly on what benefits this frequency space offers in 
>>> these environments. The price tags are not as high as you think, and the 
>>> return on it is far greater than just how quickly your money comes back 
>>> in. The ability to provide high bandwidth services in a space where you 
>>> can control the QoS and give your end-users the ability (soon) to choose 
>>> their own client device, at least to me, makes more sense than using a 
>>> lightweight product like 900. As fas as battling terrain changes, look 
>>> again at the nLOS and NLOS characteristics of 3.65 .. not to mention 
>>> mobility and the self-install CPE.
>>>
>>> -d
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>  
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>   
>> -- 
>> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
>> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
>> Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
>> Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting
>> FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile 
>> Phone 818-227-4220  Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>
>
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WISP

Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

2008-07-07 Thread Chuck McCown 
Last Mile Gear.
- Original Message - 
From: "Jason Hensley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas


> Suggestions for a 5GHz H-pol Omni then?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 12:37 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas
>
> I can tell you that DMS got served a patent infringement order for 
> knocking
> off my products.
> They did a similar thing to Equinox.
> The stinger knock off had 5 dB gain if you were lucky.  That should give 
> you
> an idea of their quality.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jason Hensley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:16 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] DMS Antennas
>
>
>> Anyone used DMS Antennas?  In particular, I'm looking at their OM5712H -
>> 5.8GHz H-pol omni.  Not a bad price on it but want to be sure it's a
>> decent
>> antenna.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
> 
> 
>>
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

2008-07-07 Thread Jason Hensley 
Suggestions for a 5GHz H-pol Omni then?

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 12:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

I can tell you that DMS got served a patent infringement order for knocking
off my products.
They did a similar thing to Equinox.
The stinger knock off had 5 dB gain if you were lucky.  That should give you
an idea of their quality.

- Original Message -
From: "Jason Hensley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: [WISPA] DMS Antennas


> Anyone used DMS Antennas?  In particular, I'm looking at their OM5712H -
> 5.8GHz H-pol omni.  Not a bad price on it but want to be sure it's a 
> decent
> antenna.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>


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Re: [WISPA] DMS Antennas

2008-07-07 Thread Chuck McCown 
I can tell you that DMS got served a patent infringement order for knocking 
off my products.
They did a similar thing to Equinox.
The stinger knock off had 5 dB gain if you were lucky.  That should give you 
an idea of their quality.

- Original Message - 
From: "Jason Hensley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: [WISPA] DMS Antennas


> Anyone used DMS Antennas?  In particular, I'm looking at their OM5712H -
> 5.8GHz H-pol omni.  Not a bad price on it but want to be sure it's a 
> decent
> antenna.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
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Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

2008-07-07 Thread Matt 
> We already do that. We have a sliding scale licensing model that starts
> at
> 16 CPE per sector. I know one other competitor that does this as well (
> Airspan )

Is there an omni option?  We have some rural sites that only have like
<15 users on the total site.  They don't make us much money but I
would prefer to not just tell users in areas like this tough.

Matt



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[WISPA] DMS Antennas

2008-07-07 Thread Jason Hensley 
Anyone used DMS Antennas?  In particular, I'm looking at their OM5712H -
5.8GHz H-pol omni.  Not a bad price on it but want to be sure it's a decent
antenna. 

Thanks!




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Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

2008-07-07 Thread jeffrey thomas 
Jack,

Drew is an operator who is already deployed with Airspan, I believe.
Is this correct Drew? 

Yes, forested areas always present a challenge, whether its 900, 700,
3.65ghz,
5.8ghz, etc etc.

-
Jeff Booher

Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950 


On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:53:12 -0700, "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
said:
> Drew,
> 
> Are you drawing your conclusions based on 3.65 deployments in other 
> parts of the world? I ask because it's hard to imagine that there are 
> already enough 3.65 deployments in the U.S. to draw all your conclusions.
> 
> Also, physics is still physics. Even given advanced antenna systems, 
> nLOS and NLOS performance at 3.65 is still going to be limited by hills 
> and trees. No matter how advanced the APs and antenna systems, I find it 
> very hard to believe that 3.65 is going to approach the performance of 
> 900 MHz inside of (or on the other side of) a forested area.
> 
> 
> jack
> 
> 
> Drew Lentz wrote:
> > I completely disagree with you on this topic. 3.65 makes a great play in 
> > a rural setting. I have spoken with many different groups who are 
> > capitalizing exactly on what benefits this frequency space offers in 
> > these environments. The price tags are not as high as you think, and the 
> > return on it is far greater than just how quickly your money comes back 
> > in. The ability to provide high bandwidth services in a space where you 
> > can control the QoS and give your end-users the ability (soon) to choose 
> > their own client device, at least to me, makes more sense than using a 
> > lightweight product like 900. As fas as battling terrain changes, look 
> > again at the nLOS and NLOS characteristics of 3.65 .. not to mention 
> > mobility and the self-install CPE.
> >
> > -d
> >
> >
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> >  
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >   
> 
> -- 
> Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
> Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
> Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
> Vendor-Neutral Wireless Design-Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting
> FCC License # PG-12-25133 Profile 
> Phone 818-227-4220  Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

2008-07-07 Thread jeffrey thomas 
Scottie,

We already do that. We have a sliding scale licensing model that starts
at 
16 CPE per sector. I know one other competitor that does this as well (
Airspan )




Jeff Booher

Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950


On Sun,  6 Jul 2008 19:10:03 -0500, "Scottie Arnett"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> It would be great if this worked for everyone, everywhere. Still vendors
> are missing the point in many cases. Every place does NOT have a
> potential for 1000 subs (there is not a 1000 homes in the town I live),
> nor is every place FLAT that can be reached with service for 1000 subs. I
> have 4 900 Mhz AP's on 4 seperate towers just to cover 150 people in one
> county we service. I could not cover that many with 4 of your 3.65Ghz,
> too many hills.
> 
> Build me an AP that I can buy with licenses for a certain amount of
> subscribers. Charge me less than $10,000(or whatever yours cost, it will
> definately be higher than my 900Mhz AP) for that AP, then I will buy into
> your 3.65. The vendors are taking the same stance as the FCC on these
> rural areas, forget about them...no money to be made there. Hey even
> rural folks need broadband too, after all we are people just like in the
> big cities...only thing is, it doesn't take us an hour or longer to get
> to work everyday. :)
> 
> Scott
> 
> -- Original Message --
> From: "jeffrey thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Sun, 06 Jul 2008 11:45:08 -0700
> 
> 
> >Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
> >
> >1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector
> >configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver
> >approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is
> >supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same
> 
> >Aperto Networks, Inc
> >Channel Manager, North America
> >www.apertonet.com
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >24/7: 206-455-4950
> >
> >
> >
> >On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:14:44 -0500, "Mike Hammett"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> >> Increased spectral efficiency
> >> Advanced antenna support (the only benefit I understand is increased
> >> signal 
> >> margin)
> >> Higher likelihood of multiple vendors vs. many previous BWA technologies, 
> >> though not now
> >> Eventual lower CPE cost, though not now
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --
> >> Mike Hammett
> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >> http://www.ics-il.com
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:55 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
> >> 
> >> 
> >> > What is your opinion about the greatness of WiMax based upon?
> >> >
> >> > - Original Message - 
> >> > From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:19 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>I believe that WiMax is great...  greater than equipment we currently 
> >> >>use.
> >> >> I just don't use it at this time because of the cost.  I also don't buy
> >> >> into
> >> >> a lot of the hype people (press, manufacturers, vendors, others) are
> >> >> pushing.  I had a project that required 10 meg of synchronous, committed
> >> >> bandwidth per customer.  I was told (by more than one group) because of
> >> >> the
> >> >> WiMax magic, I could put 2 - 3 customers on equipment capable of 23 
> >> >> megs.
> >> >> Sorry, you simply cannot put 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound box, no 
> >> >> matter
> >> >> the magic.  Other than Mikrotik, only the AN-80i would have been worth 
> >> >> it.
> >> >>
> >> >> I do appreciate the FCC's requirement of equipment getting along with
> >> >> dissimilar equipment.  Who knows when we'll have another Canopy or 
> >> >> Tsunami
> >> >> introduced that just doesn't play well with others.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Mike Hammett
> >> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >> >> http://www.ics-il.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> - Original Message - 
> >> >> From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:38 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>I do not think we should build our networks for the "sole purpose of
> >> >>> suckering, err, selling to someone else".  I do believe that I want
> >> >>> anything I build to have value in the event I do sell. That is not
> >> >>> "suckering" anyone. Why not build something that holds value or
> >> >>> appreciates in value? I know a future plan for WISPs to build WiMax
> >> >>> networks in 3.65 would result in better networks, better valuations
> >> >>> for WISPs and better economies of scale.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Leaning on 802.11 further is just not the plan

Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz

2008-07-07 Thread jeffrey thomas 
Chuck,

Not an ad. Yes I have deployed. I know of 2 competitors that offer sub
400 dollar CPE, as well as us.

BR,

Jeff Booher

Channel Manager, North America
www.apertonet.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
24/7: 206-455-4950


On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 12:57:08 -0600, "Chuck McCown - 3"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> Have you actually deployed WiMax @ 3.65 and have experienced this first 
> hand?
> Where can I purchase sub $350 CPE on 3.65 today?
> This looks more like a vendor's ad than a WISP reporting real world 
> experiences.
> Lots of dangling comparatives.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "jeffrey thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" ; "WISPA General List" 
> 
> Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 12:45 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
> 
> 
> > Since everyone was talking about wimax, thought I would throw my 3 cents
> > in :)
> >
> >
> > Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
> >
> > 1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector
> > configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver
> > approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is
> > supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same
> > BSU.
> > 2. multiple vendor support ( currently you have Redline, Aperto,
> > Airspan, Alvarion, all with FCC approved equipment )
> > 3. Better RF performance ( even with siso systems )
> > 4. NLOS performance ( OFDM+OFDMA = More difficult shots obtain link )
> > 5. Better QOS support, and service flows ( UGS, NRTPS, ETC can be  )
> > 6. Greater scalablity ( Single sector can support hundreds of
> > subscribers, our platform supports 30,000 pps )
> > 7. Support for multiline VOIP out of box ( UGS + 30K PPS )
> > 8. Sub 350 cpe shipping today ( in 100 packs, less with frame order
> > commitments putting your cost sub 300 )
> > 9. Carrier class systems vs Wisp class ( True 99.999% uptime solutions
> > available for base station equipment, reducing downtime and truck rolls
> > )
> > 10. Carrier class network management systems that simplify provisioning
> > and management of subscribers and base stations.
> >
> > Even if you don't choose aperto, there are many options in the market to
> > choose from. Talk to your local reseller about your options, Such as
> > Wireless Connections and Wirelessguys carry many products to choose
> > from.
> >
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> >
> > Jeff Booher
> >
> >
> > Aperto Networks, Inc
> > Channel Manager, North America
> > www.apertonet.com
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 24/7: 206-455-4950
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 10:14:44 -0500, "Mike Hammett"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> >> Increased spectral efficiency
> >> Advanced antenna support (the only benefit I understand is increased
> >> signal
> >> margin)
> >> Higher likelihood of multiple vendors vs. many previous BWA technologies,
> >> though not now
> >> Eventual lower CPE cost, though not now
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mike Hammett
> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >> http://www.ics-il.com
> >>
> >>
> >> - Original Message - 
> >> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 8:55 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
> >>
> >>
> >> > What is your opinion about the greatness of WiMax based upon?
> >> >
> >> > - Original Message - 
> >> > From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> > Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 7:19 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>I believe that WiMax is great...  greater than equipment we currently 
> >> >>use.
> >> >> I just don't use it at this time because of the cost.  I also don't 
> >> >> buy
> >> >> into
> >> >> a lot of the hype people (press, manufacturers, vendors, others) are
> >> >> pushing.  I had a project that required 10 meg of synchronous, 
> >> >> committed
> >> >> bandwidth per customer.  I was told (by more than one group) because 
> >> >> of
> >> >> the
> >> >> WiMax magic, I could put 2 - 3 customers on equipment capable of 23 
> >> >> megs.
> >> >> Sorry, you simply cannot put 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound box, no
> >> >> matter
> >> >> the magic.  Other than Mikrotik, only the AN-80i would have been worth
> >> >> it.
> >> >>
> >> >> I do appreciate the FCC's requirement of equipment getting along with
> >> >> dissimilar equipment.  Who knows when we'll have another Canopy or
> >> >> Tsunami
> >> >> introduced that just doesn't play well with others.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Mike Hammett
> >> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >> >> http://www.ics-il.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> - Original Message - 
> >> >> From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:38 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Update from the FCC on 3.65Ghz and CBP
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>

Re: [WISPA] solar equipment / partners?

2008-07-07 Thread Randy Cosby 
Here's one situation where solar worked out for us.  We're on a water 
tank about 200' from power.  The cost of the trenching (lots of rocks) 
and power hookup was more than the solar equipment I'd need for this 
small POP.  But I agree, solar just isn't easy to cost justify yet.  Now 
if we could just turn some of this dang heat in St. George to power 
somehow  
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-06/uou-asw060107.php

Randy


Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
> I have been doing solar powered radio sites for 25 years.  I will never do 
> one where commercial power is available.  Not sure how folks buying panels 
> at $5/watt can think this is a good deal compared with 7 cents per 1000 
> watts.
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Rogelio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Charles N Wyble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 10:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] solar equipment / partners?
>
>
>   
>> Charles N Wyble wrote:
>> 
>>> We are looking to deploy several hundred radios as well for a large
>>> scale private network, and want
>>> it to be resilient as possible. This includes power and back haul
>>> connectivity. Solar looks to be a good
>>> backup power option, and with the price of everything increasing perhaps
>>> a good primary option?
>>>   
>> Yeah, apparently people have been doing the math on the power required
>> and the amount saved, and apparently it's significant.
>>
>> Not sure how they can know this without looking at specific equipment,
>> but apparently it's worth seriously looking into, in their opinion.
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>> 
>
>
>
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-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

office: 435-773-6071





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Re: [WISPA] POE

2008-07-07 Thread Steve Barnes 
POE Offers a flexibility that a standard Switch does not. It gives the
administrators the ability to put Wireless access units anywhere without
running special cabling.  It also gives them the ability to install IP
cameras for surveillance anywhere there is a network drop.

These may not be standard switches either, Likely they are managed switches.
Adding management to switches doubles the cost as well as POE increasing the
cost.  

The labor, well likely if these are managed POE switches there is many hours
of network mapping and management to control network flow and system
optimization.  If these are Cisco or HP Trained installers  then they likely
get hundreds of dollars per hour and that training is needed to do the
network optimization right.  The question is, is the managed network really
needed.  Our local School corp. IT admin would say definitely. 

Steve Barnes
Executive Manager
PCS-WIN
RCWiFi Wireless Internet Service
(765)584-2288
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 10:30 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] POE

Can someone explain why a school would want to pay $1900@ for 25 48-port  
10/100/1000 switches with PoE capability for a possible future need versus  
$500-600 for a plain 48-port 10/100/1000 switch?  No one that I can find
has a 
reason except maybe it would be needed in 5 years.
 
Second question, replacing 48 24-port 10/100 switches with the above
48-port 
ones, can anyone explain why it should cost almost $50,000?  I  cannot 
imagine how it would take even 2 days to do, let alone any tests that  would
be so 
elaborate and/or expensive.  [My geek son and a few of his  friends thought
it 
would take them a day at $100@ plus lunch and extra Diet Dr  Pepper]
 
Thanks!
 
Walter  


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




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Re: [WISPA] POE

2008-07-07 Thread Cameron Kilton 
Easy really, more and more locations including schools are using VoIP
systems for internal phone systems. So opposed to have a power pack for
each phone, it is all just provided via the switch. Easier to manage for
the sys admin in charge. Also certain PoE switches can power their
Remote AP's for the in school wifi. There are a bunch of advantages as
far as flexibility and management, but for the most part, not always
needed, but hey, it's just your tax money paying for it after
allhaha.

They are probably saying it's going to cost 50K to cover up other items
they are buying, your right, it shouldn't be that much. Keep in mind,
when they buy these units, they also list the retail price for the
equipment instead of what they actually pay for it most of the time. 

-Cameron

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 10:30 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] POE

Can someone explain why a school would want to pay $1900@ for 25 48-port

10/100/1000 switches with PoE capability for a possible future need
versus  
$500-600 for a plain 48-port 10/100/1000 switch?  No one that I can find
has a 
reason except maybe it would be needed in 5 years.
 
Second question, replacing 48 24-port 10/100 switches with the above
48-port 
ones, can anyone explain why it should cost almost $50,000?  I  cannot 
imagine how it would take even 2 days to do, let alone any tests that
would be so 
elaborate and/or expensive.  [My geek son and a few of his  friends
thought it 
would take them a day at $100@ plus lunch and extra Diet Dr  Pepper]
 
Thanks!
 
Walter  


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




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