Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
I have plenty of VOIP customers behind my Trango network. I'm also getting excellent results using Targeted Technologies proprietary 8K stream VOIP even over my 900Mhz Trango. Trango has plenty of processing power and pps performance to do VOIP. The relevent question is, is the oversubscription rate you plan to use on your network within the capabilty of delivering VOIP? There are many challenges in delivering quality VOIP over ANY PtMP network design. Although prioirtization helps, its not the one save all feature. In PtMP end users must compete for upload time of the AP, even smart polling systems do not 100% solve this issue in an oversubscribed network, although helps significantly. Backend prioiritization is not enough for upload direction, if it gets choked at the AP before it reaches the prioritization. If you are going to do VOIP, you must be more conservative on your oversubscription rate, and you will be fine. On the download side it is not a problem as traffic will reach the bandwdith management/prioiritization before it reaches the AP. With that said, Trango had been working on a VOIP prioritized firmware last year for the 5580, I do not know if it was released or not. The second issue is whether you are designing your Trango network with enough RF margin. Never never use a bare 5580 radio, its pointless. The Behive antennas are now shipping for the Trango 5580 also!! They work great, and bring the signal up to between 15-18 db antenna gain, depending on the case. They are great. Lastly, the newest Trango Firmwares added some support to help with out of order packets with its ARQ algorithym. This seemed to help quite a bit to optimize the VOIP performance when using ARQ. We only run Trango with ARQ. To valuable to turn off. (With the exception of for 5830s). The other decission you'll need to make is whetehr the over all design of your network is good enough to be a VOIP provider. You will have to be the judge of that. Voice services are demanding, from an uptime SLA point of view. To handle this, we are adding more point to point links, more licensed links, getting rid of backbone bottle necks, etc. But Trango can handle VOIP just fine, as far as capabilty of a radio. The VOIP engineering is up to you, on the router behind and in front of them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] Trango VOIP Just a quick question to the list, is Trango 5800 series still a viable option for providing data VOIP (IAX2) to customers? I know a few ISPs out there who use it for that, but there's virtually no data at all on the Trango site regarding it. I tried Canopy Adv. a few months back but was unhappy with the overall range quality (2.5 miles LOS w/ a reflector, and 8 port ATA, the voice was choppy when I had all 8 calls going). I'm transmitting 1-3 miles over a salt water ¾ mile wide river. I am just looking for some real world experiences out there. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
Doug: I believe the other key factor is your RF environment Im transmitting 1-3 miles over a salt water ¾ mile wide river. Assuming you are using RF planning tools, You may want to tweak your RF link path analysis. F --- Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have plenty of VOIP customers behind my Trango network. I'm also getting excellent results using Targeted Technologies proprietary 8K stream VOIP even over my 900Mhz Trango. Trango has plenty of processing power and pps performance to do VOIP. The relevent question is, is the oversubscription rate you plan to use on your network within the capabilty of delivering VOIP? There are many challenges in delivering quality VOIP over ANY PtMP network design. Although prioirtization helps, its not the one save all feature. In PtMP end users must compete for upload time of the AP, even smart polling systems do not 100% solve this issue in an oversubscribed network, although helps significantly. Backend prioiritization is not enough for upload direction, if it gets choked at the AP before it reaches the prioritization. If you are going to do VOIP, you must be more conservative on your oversubscription rate, and you will be fine. On the download side it is not a problem as traffic will reach the bandwdith management/prioiritization before it reaches the AP. With that said, Trango had been working on a VOIP prioritized firmware last year for the 5580, I do not know if it was released or not. The second issue is whether you are designing your Trango network with enough RF margin. Never never use a bare 5580 radio, its pointless. The Behive antennas are now shipping for the Trango 5580 also!! They work great, and bring the signal up to between 15-18 db antenna gain, depending on the case. They are great. Lastly, the newest Trango Firmwares added some support to help with out of order packets with its ARQ algorithym. This seemed to help quite a bit to optimize the VOIP performance when using ARQ. We only run Trango with ARQ. To valuable to turn off. (With the exception of for 5830s). The other decission you'll need to make is whetehr the over all design of your network is good enough to be a VOIP provider. You will have to be the judge of that. Voice services are demanding, from an uptime SLA point of view. To handle this, we are adding more point to point links, more licensed links, getting rid of backbone bottle necks, etc. But Trango can handle VOIP just fine, as far as capabilty of a radio. The VOIP engineering is up to you, on the router behind and in front of them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] Trango VOIP Just a quick question to the list, is Trango 5800 series still a viable option for providing data VOIP (IAX2) to customers? I know a few ISPs out there who use it for that, but there's virtually no data at all on the Trango site regarding it. I tried Canopy Adv. a few months back but was unhappy with the overall range quality (2.5 miles LOS w/ a reflector, and 8 port ATA, the voice was choppy when I had all 8 calls going). I'm transmitting 1-3 miles over a salt water ¾ mile wide river. I am just looking for some real world experiences out there. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. http://mobile.yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+bandwidth+iax2 - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Trango VOIP I'm not using Canopy at the moment - I had bought a trial kit, ended up selling it. I'm using Mikrotik right now. How are you doing with concurrent calls per sector? I'm talking about rolling out a network _mostly_ dedicated to VOIP, even some customers without data at all. Some customers would have as many as 8 to 10 voice lines. For customers who want more I would simply use a PtP link for them. With all VOIP the real bandwidth cuts to 4.5Mbps on Advantage according to Motorola's white papers. I'm also concerned with scalability, if I have 6 x 5.7 Canopy APs on a tower, I need 100' of vertical space to co-locate a 5.2 set. Most of my towers aren't even 100' tall. Trango is not only dual polarity, but dual band as well. Nothing suggests you can't put them all in close proximity as long as they are in different polarizations / bands when close by. I wonder if IAX2 trunking would allow more VOIP calls over the same data bandwidth due to packet size / aggregation? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Muehleisen Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 3:05 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP Doug, I will second Forrest's comments. We have been running VOIP on Canopy for several years now will great success. The key is setting the high priority queues and DiffServ settings. We also tagged VOIP traffic in a high priority DHCP VLAN. We've found that PPPoE encapsulation really struggles with VOIP. Are you using PPPoE? -Eric Forrest W Christian wrote: Doug Ratcliffe wrote: I tried Canopy Adv. a few months back but was unhappy with the overall range quality (2.5 miles LOS w/ a reflector, and 8 port ATA, the voice was choppy when I had all 8 calls going). I'm transmitting 1-3 miles over a salt water ¾ mile wide river. On the canopy side: Two things: 1) The secret of making canopy work at extended ranges is buying cyclone AP's from last mile gear. http://www.lastmilegear.com. I regularly get 10+ miles LOS with a reflector at 5.7, and 20+ miles LOS with a reflector at 2.4. Without the cyclone APs you can get roughly half that. The one thing you may have missed is that canopy is multipath sensitive, so moving the SM even 6-8 inches could make the difference between a great link and no link - especially with a big RF mirror like the river you are talking about. 2) VoIP on canopy works really well when set correctly. Correctly means having the correct (not necessarily the latest) version in the AP and SM, and setting prioritization in both the AP and SM for voice traffic. In addition, you need to watch and make sure that you have bandwidth set correctly and are getting the speeds you expect. If you had a marginal link, there is every possibility that you simply did not have sufficient bandwidth available to you in the upstream -forrest -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.14/845 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 6:39 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business
Verizon has several deployments of Alvarion gear out there. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 6:37 PM Subject: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business A couple months late posting. But interesting to see Verizon working its way into Fixed Wireless. http://www.fibertower.com/corp/solutions-government-networx.shtml Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business
I have been on towers with Verizon gear on them and Alvarion gear alongside. Not sure what they were using them for but they were there. Justin --- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technology Services - WISP Consulting - Tower Services WEB: http://www.mtin.net WEB: http://www.metrospan.net WEB: http://www.findfastinternet.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business Verizon has several deployments of Alvarion gear out there. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 6:37 PM Subject: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business A couple months late posting. But interesting to see Verizon working its way into Fixed Wireless. http://www.fibertower.com/corp/solutions-government-networx.shtml Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. If it were, then a 5Mbps/5Mbps ratio could give me 103 calls/Mbit (IAX2/G729) but in reality, that's 100k PPS per 100 calls, making it unworkable. But at the same token, if I decide 15 concurrent calls @ G711 per AP is a usable number with bandwidth left over, I can manage oversubscription there. Ultimately, it's the PPS that kills it. But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless so that instead of transmitting 100 300byte packets, to transmit 20 1500byte packets? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP I have plenty of VOIP customers behind my Trango network. I'm also getting excellent results using Targeted Technologies proprietary 8K stream VOIP even over my 900Mhz Trango. Trango has plenty of processing power and pps performance to do VOIP. The relevent question is, is the oversubscription rate you plan to use on your network within the capabilty of delivering VOIP? There are many challenges in delivering quality VOIP over ANY PtMP network design. Although prioirtization helps, its not the one save all feature. In PtMP end users must compete for upload time of the AP, even smart polling systems do not 100% solve this issue in an oversubscribed network, although helps significantly. Backend prioiritization is not enough for upload direction, if it gets choked at the AP before it reaches the prioritization. If you are going to do VOIP, you must be more conservative on your oversubscription rate, and you will be fine. On the download side it is not a problem as traffic will reach the bandwdith management/prioiritization before it reaches the AP. With that said, Trango had been working on a VOIP prioritized firmware last year for the 5580, I do not know if it was released or not. The second issue is whether you are designing your Trango network with enough RF margin. Never never use a bare 5580 radio, its pointless. The Behive antennas are now shipping for the Trango 5580 also!! They work great, and bring the signal up to between 15-18 db antenna gain, depending on the case. They are great. Lastly, the newest Trango Firmwares added some support to help with out of order packets with its ARQ algorithym. This seemed to help quite a bit to optimize the VOIP performance when using ARQ. We only run Trango with ARQ. To valuable to turn off. (With the exception of for 5830s). The other decission you'll need to make is whetehr the over all design of your network is good enough to be a VOIP provider. You will have to be the judge of that. Voice services are demanding, from an uptime SLA point of view. To handle this, we are adding more point to point links, more licensed links, getting rid of backbone bottle necks, etc. But Trango can handle VOIP just fine, as far as capabilty of a radio. The VOIP engineering is up to you, on the router behind and in front of them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] Trango VOIP Just a quick question to the list, is Trango 5800 series still a viable option for providing data VOIP (IAX2) to customers? I know a few ISPs out there who use it for that, but there's virtually no data at all on the Trango site regarding it. I tried Canopy Adv. a few months back but was unhappy with the overall range quality (2.5 miles LOS w/ a reflector, and 8 port ATA, the voice was choppy when I had all 8 calls going). I'm transmitting 1-3 miles over a salt water ¾ mile wide river. I am just looking for some real world experiences out there. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.14/845 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 6:39 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business
www.verizonavenue.com http://www.alvarion.com/presscenter/pressreleases/2918/ http://www.alvarion.com/presscenter/pressreleases/2984/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:38 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business I have been on towers with Verizon gear on them and Alvarion gear alongside. Not sure what they were using them for but they were there. Justin --- Justin S. Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technology Services - WISP Consulting - Tower Services WEB: http://www.mtin.net WEB: http://www.metrospan.net WEB: http://www.findfastinternet.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business Verizon has several deployments of Alvarion gear out there. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 6:37 PM Subject: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business A couple months late posting. But interesting to see Verizon working its way into Fixed Wireless. http://www.fibertower.com/corp/solutions-government-networx.shtml Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
IAX2 trunking is your savior. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:39 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Trango VOIP But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. If it were, then a 5Mbps/5Mbps ratio could give me 103 calls/Mbit (IAX2/G729) but in reality, that's 100k PPS per 100 calls, making it unworkable. But at the same token, if I decide 15 concurrent calls @ G711 per AP is a usable number with bandwidth left over, I can manage oversubscription there. Ultimately, it's the PPS that kills it. But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless so that instead of transmitting 100 300byte packets, to transmit 20 1500byte packets? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP I have plenty of VOIP customers behind my Trango network. I'm also getting excellent results using Targeted Technologies proprietary 8K stream VOIP even over my 900Mhz Trango. Trango has plenty of processing power and pps performance to do VOIP. The relevent question is, is the oversubscription rate you plan to use on your network within the capabilty of delivering VOIP? There are many challenges in delivering quality VOIP over ANY PtMP network design. Although prioirtization helps, its not the one save all feature. In PtMP end users must compete for upload time of the AP, even smart polling systems do not 100% solve this issue in an oversubscribed network, although helps significantly. Backend prioiritization is not enough for upload direction, if it gets choked at the AP before it reaches the prioritization. If you are going to do VOIP, you must be more conservative on your oversubscription rate, and you will be fine. On the download side it is not a problem as traffic will reach the bandwdith management/prioiritization before it reaches the AP. With that said, Trango had been working on a VOIP prioritized firmware last year for the 5580, I do not know if it was released or not. The second issue is whether you are designing your Trango network with enough RF margin. Never never use a bare 5580 radio, its pointless. The Behive antennas are now shipping for the Trango 5580 also!! They work great, and bring the signal up to between 15-18 db antenna gain, depending on the case. They are great. Lastly, the newest Trango Firmwares added some support to help with out of order packets with its ARQ algorithym. This seemed to help quite a bit to optimize the VOIP performance when using ARQ. We only run Trango with ARQ. To valuable to turn off. (With the exception of for 5830s). The other decission you'll need to make is whetehr the over all design of your network is good enough to be a VOIP provider. You will have to be the judge of that. Voice services are demanding, from an uptime SLA point of view. To handle this, we are adding more point to point links, more licensed links, getting rid of backbone bottle necks, etc. But Trango can handle VOIP just fine, as far as capabilty of a radio. The VOIP engineering is up to you, on the router behind and in front of them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] Trango VOIP Just a quick question to the list, is Trango 5800 series still a viable option for providing data VOIP (IAX2) to customers? I know a few ISPs out there who use it for that, but there's virtually no data at all on the Trango site regarding it. I tried Canopy Adv. a few months back but was unhappy with the overall range quality (2.5 miles LOS w/ a reflector, and 8 port ATA, the voice was choppy when I had all 8 calls going). I'm transmitting 1-3 miles over a salt water ¾ mile wide river. I am just looking for some real world experiences out there. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.14/845 - Release Date: 6/12/2007 6:39 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
RE: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
So IAX2 is capable of packaging multiple phone calls into 1500 byte ethernet packets? I mean, G729 is 300 bytes, if 4 calls plus overhead became one packet, then it sounds like it is the solution for wireless. I wonder if an Asterisk IAX/SIP converter with linux for QOS can be loaded onto a SBC like a WRAP board? That would allow me to have both QOS and the ability to use inexpensive SIP devices on the inside of the network. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:42 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP IAX2 trunking is your savior. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:39 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Trango VOIP But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. If it were, then a 5Mbps/5Mbps ratio could give me 103 calls/Mbit (IAX2/G729) but in reality, that's 100k PPS per 100 calls, making it unworkable. But at the same token, if I decide 15 concurrent calls @ G711 per AP is a usable number with bandwidth left over, I can manage oversubscription there. Ultimately, it's the PPS that kills it. But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless so that instead of transmitting 100 300byte packets, to transmit 20 1500byte packets? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP I have plenty of VOIP customers behind my Trango network. I'm also getting excellent results using Targeted Technologies proprietary 8K stream VOIP even over my 900Mhz Trango. Trango has plenty of processing power and pps performance to do VOIP. The relevent question is, is the oversubscription rate you plan to use on your network within the capabilty of delivering VOIP? There are many challenges in delivering quality VOIP over ANY PtMP network design. Although prioirtization helps, its not the one save all feature. In PtMP end users must compete for upload time of the AP, even smart polling systems do not 100% solve this issue in an oversubscribed network, although helps significantly. Backend prioiritization is not enough for upload direction, if it gets choked at the AP before it reaches the prioritization. If you are going to do VOIP, you must be more conservative on your oversubscription rate, and you will be fine. On the download side it is not a problem as traffic will reach the bandwdith management/prioiritization before it reaches the AP. With that said, Trango had been working on a VOIP prioritized firmware last year for the 5580, I do not know if it was released or not. The second issue is whether you are designing your Trango network with enough RF margin. Never never use a bare 5580 radio, its pointless. The Behive antennas are now shipping for the Trango 5580 also!! They work great, and bring the signal up to between 15-18 db antenna gain, depending on the case. They are great. Lastly, the newest Trango Firmwares added some support to help with out of order packets with its ARQ algorithym. This seemed to help quite a bit to optimize the VOIP performance when using ARQ. We only run Trango with ARQ. To valuable to turn off. (With the exception of for 5830s). The other decission you'll need to make is whetehr the over all design of your network is good enough to be a VOIP provider. You will have to be the judge of that. Voice services are demanding, from an uptime SLA point of view. To handle this, we are adding more point to point links, more licensed links, getting rid of backbone bottle necks, etc. But Trango can handle VOIP just fine, as far as capabilty of a radio. The VOIP engineering is up to you, on the router behind and in front of them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] Trango VOIP Just a quick question to the list, is Trango 5800 series still a viable option for providing data VOIP (IAX2) to customers? I know a few ISPs out there who use it for that, but there's virtually no data at all on the Trango site regarding it. I tried Canopy Adv. a few months back but was unhappy with the overall range quality (2.5 miles LOS w/ a reflector, and 8 port ATA, the voice was choppy when I had all 8 calls going). I'm transmitting 1-3 miles over a salt water ¾ mile wide river. I am just looking for some real world experiences out there. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
Doug Ratcliffe wrote: So IAX2 is capable of packaging multiple phone calls into 1500 byte ethernet packets? I mean, G729 is 300 bytes, if 4 calls plus overhead became one packet, then it sounds like it is the solution for wireless. I wonder if an Asterisk IAX/SIP converter with linux for QOS can be loaded onto a SBC like a WRAP board? That would allow me to have both QOS and the ability to use inexpensive SIP devices on the inside of the network. We built just such a device using Soekris. Want some? -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] muni business models working?
http://www.telecommagazine.com/newsglobe/article.asp?HH_ID=AR_3265 marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
What kills it is NOT the bandwidth. What kills it is the I/O's. Each box's CPU can only handle so many I/O requests per second. Each stream is at least 1 I/O request. That's how it is determined. Asterisk can handle 1000 calls per server IF the server can handle that many I/O requests AND if the router can. Most routers cannot. (This is all from a long discussion with John Todd about Asterisk clustering and stuff). Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. 4isps.com Doug Ratcliffe wrote: But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. If it were, then a 5Mbps/5Mbps ratio could give me 103 calls/Mbit (IAX2/G729) but in reality, that's 100k PPS per 100 calls, making it unworkable. But at the same token, if I decide 15 concurrent calls @ G711 per AP is a usable number with bandwidth left over, I can manage oversubscription there. Ultimately, it's the PPS that kills it. But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless so that instead of transmitting 100 300byte packets, to transmit 20 1500byte packets? -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business
Verizon Avenue is the MDU division for VZ. It is the triple-play to the multi-tenant dwelling like dorms. Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. 4isps.com Mike Hammett wrote: www.verizonavenue.com http://www.alvarion.com/presscenter/pressreleases/2918/ http://www.alvarion.com/presscenter/pressreleases/2984/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
Since you can load Asterisk on anything including a Linksys router, then you could probably load a version on a WRAP board. - Peter Doug Ratcliffe wrote: So IAX2 is capable of packaging multiple phone calls into 1500 byte ethernet packets? I mean, G729 is 300 bytes, if 4 calls plus overhead became one packet, then it sounds like it is the solution for wireless. I wonder if an Asterisk IAX/SIP converter with linux for QOS can be loaded onto a SBC like a WRAP board? That would allow me to have both QOS and the ability to use inexpensive SIP devices on the inside of the network. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business
http://telephonyonline.com/wireless/technology/verizon_avenue_fixed_081205/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business Verizon Avenue is the MDU division for VZ. It is the triple-play to the multi-tenant dwelling like dorms. Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. 4isps.com Mike Hammett wrote: www.verizonavenue.com http://www.alvarion.com/presscenter/pressreleases/2918/ http://www.alvarion.com/presscenter/pressreleases/2984/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] muni business models working?
interesting read, thanks On 7/3/07, Marlon K. Schafer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.telecommagazine.com/newsglobe/article.asp?HH_ID=AR_3265 marlon -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business
Tom: I'm glad you posted the weblink. The Verizon/FibreTower announcment is part of the large GSA RFP Networx Universal and Networx Enterprise RFP, whereby ATT, Qwest Communications and Verizon won spots on Universal. The same three companies also got places on Enterprise, along with Sprint and Level 3 Communications. Sprint bid unsuccessfully for a place on Universal. Bechtel, is an ATT partner for ATT¡¦s Networx offerings. http://www.gcn.com/print/26_15/44523-1.html The only thing I did not see here is the convergence of wireless witih mission critical radio (two way radio) that emerged on the scene with Katrina. FiberTower will operate under a fixed-wireless subcontract agreement with each carrier as they compete for telecommunications business from government agencies. I think it will be interesting to follow our taxpayers dollars spent on this program in the next ten ot tweny years. And an opportunity for our federal government to updrade our federal systems. http://www.gcn.com/print/26_15/44523-1.html From a technologies point of view, the CEO of FibreTower is from Flarion who got purchased by Qualcomm. The co-founder of Flarion was Lars Johannson. Lars is a very sharp engineer who went on to Beceem Communiations as executive in the development of Mobile WiMax 802.16(e) chipsets and frontrunner of WiMAX for OEMs and ODMs. For those following Beceem.. Intel was a big investor in BeCeem, both based here in the Silicon Valley. And Intel developed the new mobile Centrino platorm called Montevina which offers WiFi/WiMax enabled laptops. http://www.wimax.com/commentary/blog/blog-2007/intel-montevina-wimax (plz pardon the self-promotion but it is a good summary) Here are some refererence links: Fibertower Earnings Statement - take a look at EBITDA http://www.fibertower.com/corp/downloads/press_releases/FT_Q107_Earnings_Release.pdf: Networx Universal Sprint Vs Verizon http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2007/04/03/sprint_to_meet_gsa_soon_on_telecom_bid/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Technology+stories BeeCeem: http://www.lightreading.com/insider/document.asp?doc_id=85629 Felix --- Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A couple months late posting. But interesting to see Verizon working its way into Fixed Wireless. http://www.fibertower.com/corp/solutions-government-networx.shtml Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
I've seen it mentioned on the asterisk newsgroup that someone has in fact loaded asterisk on a wrap board Peter R. wrote: Since you can load Asterisk on anything including a Linksys router, then you could probably load a version on a WRAP board. - Peter Doug Ratcliffe wrote: So IAX2 is capable of packaging multiple phone calls into 1500 byte ethernet packets? I mean, G729 is 300 bytes, if 4 calls plus overhead became one packet, then it sounds like it is the solution for wireless. I wonder if an Asterisk IAX/SIP converter with linux for QOS can be loaded onto a SBC like a WRAP board? That would allow me to have both QOS and the ability to use inexpensive SIP devices on the inside of the network. -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] DirectTV, EchoStar Tab Clearwire For Wireless Web
June 15, 2007 DirectTV, EchoStar Tab Clearwire For Wireless Web By Clint Boulton Watch out cable: here comes satellite. Satellite TV giants DirectTV (Quote) and EchoStar Communications (Quote) said they have agreed to offer their customers Clearwire's (Quote) wireless Internet service later this year. Financial terms of the deal, which also allows Clearwire to offer the video services of one or both satellite companies to its customers, were not made public. But the deal is highly symbiotic; DirectTV, EchoStar and Clearwire will now all be able to offer customers high-speed Internet, video and voice as they seek to pry market share from Cablevision, Time Warner Cable, Verizon and Comcast. Those vendors have enjoyed great success selling customers cable TV, phone and Internet packages. Specifically, DirectTV and EchoStar will be able to sell Clearwire's high-speed Internet services to their residential customers as a bundle with their own satellite, or on a standalone basis. In turn, Clearwire can sell its customers DirecTV and EchoStar satellite video services. Our ability to offer Clearwire's broadband service is a strong competitive alternative that we believe will help increase our subscriber base, said Nolan Daines, senior vice president of strategic initiatives for EchoStar, in a statement. Clearwire President and COO Perry Satterlee was similarly buoyed by the deal. By expanding the reach of our services through DIRECTV and EchoStar, and by incorporating direct-to-home satellite video services in our own distribution channels, we believe we have an opportunity to significantly expand our business opportunity, Satterlee said in the statement. Clearwire, launched by cell phone pioneer Craig McCaw, currently has 258,000 subscribers in 39 U.S. markets for its wireless technology, which is not unlike WiMax (define). According to the Wall Street Journal, Sprint Nextel is mulling a deal with Clearwire to fortify its $3 billion planned rollout of a wireless network. DirectTV meanwhile is the nation's leading satellite television service provider, with more than 16 million customers in the United States; EchoStar's Dish Network pipes TV via satellite to roughly 13.4 million customers. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless Good Question, that I do not have the answer to. I had thought that there was some trade off in latency doing the packet combining on slow processor boards. One of the big reasons, I have been an advocate for higher processor 400-533Mhz boards. The Trangos have a higher PPS count than you might think. (I no longer have the data on what that amount actually is) The DSSS/TDD radios are also more consistent in their delivery of throughput, which make them more predictable then a radio that may be fast 90% of the time but frequently drop down to low speeds, and drop VOIP packets during the process. But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. Agreed, but on the other hand, its not as cut and dry as having high PPS count either. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Trango VOIP But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. If it were, then a 5Mbps/5Mbps ratio could give me 103 calls/Mbit (IAX2/G729) but in reality, that's 100k PPS per 100 calls, making it unworkable. But at the same token, if I decide 15 concurrent calls @ G711 per AP is a usable number with bandwidth left over, I can manage oversubscription there. Ultimately, it's the PPS that kills it. But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless so that instead of transmitting 100 300byte packets, to transmit 20 1500byte packets? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP I have plenty of VOIP customers behind my Trango network. I'm also getting excellent results using Targeted Technologies proprietary 8K stream VOIP even over my 900Mhz Trango. Trango has plenty of processing power and pps performance to do VOIP. The relevent question is, is the oversubscription rate you plan to use on your network within the capabilty of delivering VOIP? There are many challenges in delivering quality VOIP over ANY PtMP network design. Although prioirtization helps, its not the one save all feature. In PtMP end users must compete for upload time of the AP, even smart polling systems do not 100% solve this issue in an oversubscribed network, although helps significantly. Backend prioiritization is not enough for upload direction, if it gets choked at the AP before it reaches the prioritization. If you are going to do VOIP, you must be more conservative on your oversubscription rate, and you will be fine. On the download side it is not a problem as traffic will reach the bandwdith management/prioiritization before it reaches the AP. With that said, Trango had been working on a VOIP prioritized firmware last year for the 5580, I do not know if it was released or not. The second issue is whether you are designing your Trango network with enough RF margin. Never never use a bare 5580 radio, its pointless. The Behive antennas are now shipping for the Trango 5580 also!! They work great, and bring the signal up to between 15-18 db antenna gain, depending on the case. They are great. Lastly, the newest Trango Firmwares added some support to help with out of order packets with its ARQ algorithym. This seemed to help quite a bit to optimize the VOIP performance when using ARQ. We only run Trango with ARQ. To valuable to turn off. (With the exception of for 5830s). The other decission you'll need to make is whetehr the over all design of your network is good enough to be a VOIP provider. You will have to be the judge of that. Voice services are demanding, from an uptime SLA point of view. To handle this, we are adding more point to point links, more licensed links, getting rid of backbone bottle necks, etc. But Trango can handle VOIP just fine, as far as capabilty of a radio. The VOIP engineering is up to you, on the router behind and in front of them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] Trango VOIP Just a quick question to the list, is Trango 5800 series still a viable option for providing data VOIP (IAX2) to customers? I know a few ISPs out there who use it for that, but there's virtually no data at all on the Trango site regarding it. I tried Canopy Adv. a few months back but was unhappy with the overall range quality (2.5 miles LOS w/ a reflector, and 8 port ATA, the voice was choppy when I had all 8 calls going). I'm transmitting 1-3 miles over a salt water ¾ mile wide river. I am just looking for
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
unless you aren't using Asterix :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:41 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP IAX2 trunking is your savior. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 9:39 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Trango VOIP But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. If it were, then a 5Mbps/5Mbps ratio could give me 103 calls/Mbit (IAX2/G729) but in reality, that's 100k PPS per 100 calls, making it unworkable. But at the same token, if I decide 15 concurrent calls @ G711 per AP is a usable number with bandwidth left over, I can manage oversubscription there. Ultimately, it's the PPS that kills it. But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless so that instead of transmitting 100 300byte packets, to transmit 20 1500byte packets? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP I have plenty of VOIP customers behind my Trango network. I'm also getting excellent results using Targeted Technologies proprietary 8K stream VOIP even over my 900Mhz Trango. Trango has plenty of processing power and pps performance to do VOIP. The relevent question is, is the oversubscription rate you plan to use on your network within the capabilty of delivering VOIP? There are many challenges in delivering quality VOIP over ANY PtMP network design. Although prioirtization helps, its not the one save all feature. In PtMP end users must compete for upload time of the AP, even smart polling systems do not 100% solve this issue in an oversubscribed network, although helps significantly. Backend prioiritization is not enough for upload direction, if it gets choked at the AP before it reaches the prioritization. If you are going to do VOIP, you must be more conservative on your oversubscription rate, and you will be fine. On the download side it is not a problem as traffic will reach the bandwdith management/prioiritization before it reaches the AP. With that said, Trango had been working on a VOIP prioritized firmware last year for the 5580, I do not know if it was released or not. The second issue is whether you are designing your Trango network with enough RF margin. Never never use a bare 5580 radio, its pointless. The Behive antennas are now shipping for the Trango 5580 also!! They work great, and bring the signal up to between 15-18 db antenna gain, depending on the case. They are great. Lastly, the newest Trango Firmwares added some support to help with out of order packets with its ARQ algorithym. This seemed to help quite a bit to optimize the VOIP performance when using ARQ. We only run Trango with ARQ. To valuable to turn off. (With the exception of for 5830s). The other decission you'll need to make is whetehr the over all design of your network is good enough to be a VOIP provider. You will have to be the judge of that. Voice services are demanding, from an uptime SLA point of view. To handle this, we are adding more point to point links, more licensed links, getting rid of backbone bottle necks, etc. But Trango can handle VOIP just fine, as far as capabilty of a radio. The VOIP engineering is up to you, on the router behind and in front of them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 2:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] Trango VOIP Just a quick question to the list, is Trango 5800 series still a viable option for providing data VOIP (IAX2) to customers? I know a few ISPs out there who use it for that, but there's virtually no data at all on the Trango site regarding it. I tried Canopy Adv. a few months back but was unhappy with the overall range quality (2.5 miles LOS w/ a reflector, and 8 port ATA, the voice was choppy when I had all 8 calls going). I'm transmitting 1-3 miles over a salt water ¾ mile wide river. I am just looking for some real world experiences out there. Thanks -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives:
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
I could certainly see how Trango could be superior to other multi-modulation systems. Others would up and down speed, affecting overall performance while Trango is going to be either working or dropping packets (which only affects one customer, with ARQ off). I am close to picking Trango but since Trango is discontinuing 5.3 due to DFS requirements, now I'm starting to wonder if 5.7-5.8 is enough. -- Original Message -- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:16:55 -0400 But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless Good Question, that I do not have the answer to. I had thought that there was some trade off in latency doing the packet combining on slow processor boards. One of the big reasons, I have been an advocate for higher processor 400-533Mhz boards. The Trangos have a higher PPS count than you might think. (I no longer have the data on what that amount actually is) The DSSS/TDD radios are also more consistent in their delivery of throughput, which make them more predictable then a radio that may be fast 90% of the time but frequently drop down to low speeds, and drop VOIP packets during the process. But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. Agreed, but on the other hand, its not as cut and dry as having high PPS count either. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Trango VOIP But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. If it were, then a 5Mbps/5Mbps ratio could give me 103 calls/Mbit (IAX2/G729) but in reality, that's 100k PPS per 100 calls, making it unworkable. But at the same token, if I decide 15 concurrent calls @ G711 per AP is a usable number with bandwidth left over, I can manage oversubscription there. Ultimately, it's the PPS that kills it. But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless so that instead of transmitting 100 300byte packets, to transmit 20 1500byte packets? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP I have plenty of VOIP customers behind my Trango network. I'm also getting excellent results using Targeted Technologies proprietary 8K stream VOIP even over my 900Mhz Trango. Trango has plenty of processing power and pps performance to do VOIP. The relevent question is, is the oversubscription rate you plan to use on your network within the capabilty of delivering VOIP? There are many challenges in delivering quality VOIP over ANY PtMP network design. Although prioirtization helps, its not the one save all feature. In PtMP end users must compete for upload time of the AP, even smart polling systems do not 100% solve this issue in an oversubscribed network, although helps significantly. Backend prioiritization is not enough for upload direction, if it gets choked at the AP before it reaches the prioritization. If you are going to do VOIP, you must be more conservative on your oversubscription rate, and you will be fine. On the download side it is not a problem as traffic will reach the bandwdith management/prioiritization before it reaches the AP. With that said, Trango had been working on a VOIP prioritized firmware last year for the 5580, I do not know if it was released or not. The second issue is whether you are designing your Trango network with enough RF margin. Never never use a bare 5580 radio, its pointless. The Behive antennas are now shipping for the Trango 5580 also!! They work great, and bring the signal up to between 15-18 db antenna gain, depending on the case. They are great. Lastly, the newest Trango Firmwares added some support to help with out of order packets with its ARQ algorithym. This seemed to help quite a bit to optimize the VOIP performance when using ARQ. We only run Trango with ARQ. To valuable to turn off. (With the exception of for 5830s). The other decission you'll need to make is whetehr the over all design of your network is good enough to be a VOIP provider. You will have to be the judge of that. Voice services are demanding, from an uptime SLA point of view. To handle this, we are adding more point to point links, more licensed links, getting rid of backbone bottle necks, etc. But Trango can handle VOIP just fine, as far as capabilty of a radio. The VOIP engineering is up to you, on the router behind and in front of them. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday,
Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business
I was aware of Verizon's work with Unlicensed Fixed Wireless to Rural areas. What was unique about the Fiber tower Press Release that I posted is that Verizon is jumping on board to deliver Licensed Fixed Wireless which likely will target High ARPU business in Urban and Suburban markets also, that technically could be in competition with its own wireline divisions. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 1:49 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business http://telephonyonline.com/wireless/technology/verizon_avenue_fixed_081205/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business Verizon Avenue is the MDU division for VZ. It is the triple-play to the multi-tenant dwelling like dorms. Regards, Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc. 4isps.com Mike Hammett wrote: www.verizonavenue.com http://www.alvarion.com/presscenter/pressreleases/2918/ http://www.alvarion.com/presscenter/pressreleases/2984/ - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business
Felix, Thanks for the follow up post. It sheds some additional light on what its all about. I wonder if that GSA contract (Networx Universal) has a small business set aside portion included. Required of the winners to subcontract to? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Felix A. Lopez [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Verizon in the Fixed Wireless business Tom: I'm glad you posted the weblink. The Verizon/FibreTower announcment is part of the large GSA RFP Networx Universal and Networx Enterprise RFP, whereby ATT, Qwest Communications and Verizon won spots on Universal. The same three companies also got places on Enterprise, along with Sprint and Level 3 Communications. Sprint bid unsuccessfully for a place on Universal. Bechtel, is an ATT partner for ATT¡¦s Networx offerings. http://www.gcn.com/print/26_15/44523-1.html The only thing I did not see here is the convergence of wireless witih mission critical radio (two way radio) that emerged on the scene with Katrina. FiberTower will operate under a fixed-wireless subcontract agreement with each carrier as they compete for telecommunications business from government agencies. I think it will be interesting to follow our taxpayers dollars spent on this program in the next ten ot tweny years. And an opportunity for our federal government to updrade our federal systems. http://www.gcn.com/print/26_15/44523-1.html From a technologies point of view, the CEO of FibreTower is from Flarion who got purchased by Qualcomm. The co-founder of Flarion was Lars Johannson. Lars is a very sharp engineer who went on to Beceem Communiations as executive in the development of Mobile WiMax 802.16(e) chipsets and frontrunner of WiMAX for OEMs and ODMs. For those following Beceem.. Intel was a big investor in BeCeem, both based here in the Silicon Valley. And Intel developed the new mobile Centrino platorm called Montevina which offers WiFi/WiMax enabled laptops. http://www.wimax.com/commentary/blog/blog-2007/intel-montevina-wimax (plz pardon the self-promotion but it is a good summary) Here are some refererence links: Fibertower Earnings Statement - take a look at EBITDA http://www.fibertower.com/corp/downloads/press_releases/FT_Q107_Earnings_Release.pdf: Networx Universal Sprint Vs Verizon http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2007/04/03/sprint_to_meet_gsa_soon_on_telecom_bid/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Technology+stories BeeCeem: http://www.lightreading.com/insider/document.asp?doc_id=85629 Felix --- Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A couple months late posting. But interesting to see Verizon working its way into Fixed Wireless. http://www.fibertower.com/corp/solutions-government-networx.shtml Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.9.6/865 - Release Date: 6/24/2007 8:33 AM -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP
5.7-5.8 is not enough on its own. You also need 5.3Ghz or 5.4Ghz solution. Thats why we still are spending time with OEM gear like ADI, Mikrotik, StarOS, Deliberant, and similar certified gear. Its for 5.3Ghz. Trango and Alvarion have been great for our Super Cells and 5.8Ghz. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug R [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 7:16 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP I could certainly see how Trango could be superior to other multi-modulation systems. Others would up and down speed, affecting overall performance while Trango is going to be either working or dropping packets (which only affects one customer, with ARQ off). I am close to picking Trango but since Trango is discontinuing 5.3 due to DFS requirements, now I'm starting to wonder if 5.7-5.8 is enough. -- Original Message -- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 19:16:55 -0400 But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless Good Question, that I do not have the answer to. I had thought that there was some trade off in latency doing the packet combining on slow processor boards. One of the big reasons, I have been an advocate for higher processor 400-533Mhz boards. The Trangos have a higher PPS count than you might think. (I no longer have the data on what that amount actually is) The DSSS/TDD radios are also more consistent in their delivery of throughput, which make them more predictable then a radio that may be fast 90% of the time but frequently drop down to low speeds, and drop VOIP packets during the process. But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. Agreed, but on the other hand, its not as cut and dry as having high PPS count either. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Doug Ratcliffe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Trango VOIP But in the same sense, its not as cut and dry as oversubscription. If it were, then a 5Mbps/5Mbps ratio could give me 103 calls/Mbit (IAX2/G729) but in reality, that's 100k PPS per 100 calls, making it unworkable. But at the same token, if I decide 15 concurrent calls @ G711 per AP is a usable number with bandwidth left over, I can manage oversubscription there. Ultimately, it's the PPS that kills it. But can systems like Mikrotik for QOS adequately pack the packets over the wireless so that instead of transmitting 100 300byte packets, to transmit 20 1500byte packets? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:06 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Trango VOIP I have plenty of VOIP customers behind my Trango network. I'm also getting excellent results using Targeted Technologies proprietary 8K stream VOIP even over my 900Mhz Trango. Trango has plenty of processing power and pps performance to do VOIP. The relevent question is, is the oversubscription rate you plan to use on your network within the capabilty of delivering VOIP? There are many challenges in delivering quality VOIP over ANY PtMP network design. Although prioirtization helps, its not the one save all feature. In PtMP end users must compete for upload time of the AP, even smart polling systems do not 100% solve this issue in an oversubscribed network, although helps significantly. Backend prioiritization is not enough for upload direction, if it gets choked at the AP before it reaches the prioritization. If you are going to do VOIP, you must be more conservative on your oversubscription rate, and you will be fine. On the download side it is not a problem as traffic will reach the bandwdith management/prioiritization before it reaches the AP. With that said, Trango had been working on a VOIP prioritized firmware last year for the 5580, I do not know if it was released or not. The second issue is whether you are designing your Trango network with enough RF margin. Never never use a bare 5580 radio, its pointless. The Behive antennas are now shipping for the Trango 5580 also!! They work great, and bring the signal up to between 15-18 db antenna gain, depending on the case. They are great. Lastly, the newest Trango Firmwares added some support to help with out of order packets with its ARQ algorithym. This seemed to help quite a bit to optimize the VOIP performance when using ARQ. We only run Trango with ARQ. To valuable to turn off. (With the exception of for 5830s). The other decission you'll need to make is whetehr the over all design of your network is good enough to be a VOIP provider. You will have to be the
