[WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Bob Moldashel
Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network  
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of


I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,  
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to  
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available  
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)


If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]






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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Mike Bushard, Jr
I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one for OSXL
and used the remaining space for linux.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax

 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network  
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of

I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,  
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to  
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available  
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread George Rogato
Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility 
built in.
So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, 
squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. Linux 
will find the space.


Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if you 
really don't want vista.



Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:

I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one for OSXL
and used the remaining space for linux.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax

 
-Original Message-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network  
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of


I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,  
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to  
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available  
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)


If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Bob Moldashel
That's what I thought.  I just need to find a Dummies verson so I  
can do it!  :-)


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:

I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic  
and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one  
for OSXL

and used the remaining space for linux.

Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort  
of


I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Bob Moldashel
Thanks George.  I just want to leave Vista on there incase something  
happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best  
Buy.  they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues.  Its  
a just in case issue.


Thanks!


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote:

Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition  
utility built in.
So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition  
utility, squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install  
linux. Linux will find the space.


Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there  
if you really don't want vista.



Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:
I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition  
Magic and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one  
for OSXL

and used the remaining space for linux.
Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question
Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a  
network  guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in  
naturesort of
I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the   
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard  
drive,  delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing  
anything to  the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other  
program available  to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.
Tnx.
-B-
Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson
The only other issue you will have is finding all the XP drivers for the 
laptop. HP/Compaq no longer publish the XP drivers for laptops that come 
with Vista on them. You can still find them, it just takes a little 
searching.


Travis
Microserv

Bob Moldashel wrote:
Thanks George.  I just want to leave Vista on there incase something 
happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best 
Buy.  they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues.  Its a 
just in case issue.


Thanks!


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote:

Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility 
built in.
So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, 
squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. 
Linux will find the space.


Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if 
you really don't want vista.



Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:
I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic 
and OSXL
boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one 
for OSXL

and used the remaining space for linux.
Mike Bushard, Jr
Wireless Network Engineer
320-256-WISP (9477)
320-256-9478 Fax
 -Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question
Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a 
network  guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in 
naturesort of
I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard 
drive,  delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing 
anything to  the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other 
program available  to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.
Tnx.
-B-
Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Ty Carter Lightwave Communications
Bob:

Take a look at http://apcmag.com/5023/dual_booting_xp_with_vista

And goto the section labeled: Get Started - Using DISKPART.. Don't pay
any attention to the steps prior to the Get Started - Using
DISKPART...

It is very straight forward and simple...

It works.. I have done this for multiple laptops that I put in the
field.




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Regards,

Ty Carter, President
Strategic Network Consultants, Inc.
524 East 9th Street
Washington, NC  27889
252-946-0351 .::. Office
252-402-5296 .::. Cell
252-946-8763 .::. Fax
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit us on the web at:  http://www.strategicconsultants.net



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network  
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of

I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,  
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to  
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available  
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread WWS2
 
In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista 


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long  time, 
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without  
problems 
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so  many changes 
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should be learning 
it-not going backwards.  


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Mike Hammett
Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...  but 
then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.  I've been 
using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista itself.  Sure, 
I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update software\drivers, but 
that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* 
DELL *cough*.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long  time,
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without 
problems
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so  many 
changes
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should be 
learning

it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
hottest

products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread lakeland
K. Tnx
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Travis Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 10:17:12 
To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


The only other issue you will have is finding all the XP drivers for the 
laptop. HP/Compaq no longer publish the XP drivers for laptops that come 
with Vista on them. You can still find them, it just takes a little 
searching.

Travis
Microserv

Bob Moldashel wrote:
 Thanks George.  I just want to leave Vista on there incase something 
 happens and I need to take the machine back to the geniuses at Best 
 Buy.  they love to turn stuff on and blame software for issues.  Its a 
 just in case issue.

 Thanks!


 -B-
 On Dec 9, 2007, at 11:41 AM, George Rogato wrote:

 Vista doesn't need partition magic, it has it's own partition utility 
 built in.
 So if you want to install linux, open up the vista partition utility, 
 squeeze the partition size down for vista and then install linux. 
 Linux will find the space.

 Also, no reason why you can't just wipe vista and put xp on there if 
 you really don't want vista.


 Mike Bushard, Jr wrote:
 I did basically the same thing a long time ago with Partition Magic 
 and OSXL
 boot loader. I resized the Windows partition, created a small one 
 for OSXL
 and used the remaining space for linux.
 Mike Bushard, Jr
 Wireless Network Engineer
 320-256-WISP (9477)
 320-256-9478 Fax
  -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 10:29 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question
 Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a 
 network  guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in 
 naturesort of
 I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
 dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard 
 drive,  delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing 
 anything to  the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other 
 program available  to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)
 If you want to reply offlist thats fine.
 Tnx.
 -B-
 Bob Moldashel
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  

 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
  

 
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Ryan Langseth
Thats because in about a year, SP1 will be released and clear up the  
major problems.I consider the first version of any new MS OS to be  
a release candidate at best.  Frankly if they do not clean up the  
Usability of Vista, it  will be the OS the drives me completely to OS  
X or Linux.   I already use the alternatives to windows a majority of  
the time anyways, its just certain programs that I still need windows  
(hint: Alvarion BreezeConfig for instance).  But apple and the major  
linux distros are working to eliminating that need _without_ having to  
piece it together myself.


These alternative OS's are also producing better products,  I upgraded  
my old ibook to 10.5 without having to do any upgrade on the hardware,  
and 10.5 seems to be faster than 10.4. While part of this is because  
of the limited hardware Apple needs to support, they still were able  
to make major upgrades, support 2 hardware architectures,  and it is  
still built better.  The desktop linux distros are getting closer to  
products that anyone can use,  again there is no hardware upgrade  
needed.


You can see these alternatives are scaring MS,  just look at  
graphics,  Vista supports OpenGL as a software compatibility in  
DirectX, and its performance is poor. Why? Because they want to lock  
game developers to their proprietary system, so that those games  
cannot be ported to other OS's which I personally hope backfires on  
them.   Microsoft needs to drop the monopolistic, proprietary  
attitude. Right now they can't even produce a standards compliant web  
browser because of their business tactics.


Even Microsoft isn't using Vista on everything.  They are pushing to  
get XO  to upgrade the OLPC hardware to run XP, not vista, because  
they know they will never get vista to run on lower performance  
machines. They also know they will lose entire continents to Linux if  
the OLPC with linux  becomes popular.



Frankly a lot of people do not use vista because of compatibility and  
usability issues,  once those are cleared up, right around SP1's  
release, I will give it a try again as a personal system.  But it will  
be another 6 moths to a year until major corporations are ready to  
deploy it,  They need to do regression testing, compatibility testing,  
upgrades, etc.   System changes should never be attempted ad-hoc,  
unless you want to waste a lot of money and time.


DELL is not to blame for the drivers,  they don't produce the  
hardware, they put it into systems.  blame the companies that make the  
components and chipsets, Intel, Broadcom, ATI, Nvidia, and etc.  Also  
make sure that when you lay that blame on them, you need to make sure  
that the APIs available to them from MS were complete for vista.   
Microsoft's blame on the hardware issues is somewhat apparent,  how  
many features were dropped, severely changed or rewritten during the  
much delayed release of Vista,  they released it not because it was  
ready, but because they needed to do something


Just as much has to be blamed on the software vendors that produce  
crap that runs on the OS,  the numerous hacks that MS has to build  
into the new versions of each OS to support poorly written third party  
applications is ridiculous.


Ryan

On Dec 9, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO  
HORRIBLE...  but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their  
fabricated fears.  I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have  
0 issues with Vista itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors  
who are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's  
fault...  that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long   
time,
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,  
without problems
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so   
many changes
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should  
be learning

it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of  
2007's hottest

products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301 
)




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread lakeland
It is not so much the new OS but the fact that many aftermarket programs do not 
work with it. And forget about printer drivers.  I have a plotter that is 
relatively new and there is no chance for a driver to work with Vista.

If you use it for present day sofware you are fine.

Bob
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:57:00 
To:wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


 
In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista 


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long  time, 
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, without  
problems 
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so  many changes 
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should be learning 
it-not going backwards.  


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread lakeland
My appologies to the list.  The one thing i was hoping to avoid was an OS 
thread.  We all know how that discussion loads up the list hard drive.


Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread lakeland
Will do.  Tnx
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Ty Carter Lightwave Communications [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 12:45:32 
To:WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: RE: [WISPA] OT..Question


Bob:

Take a look at http://apcmag.com/5023/dual_booting_xp_with_vista

And goto the section labeled: Get Started - Using DISKPART.. Don't pay
any attention to the steps prior to the Get Started - Using
DISKPART...

It is very straight forward and simple...

It works.. I have done this for multiple laptops that I put in the
field.




--
Regards,

Ty Carter, President
Strategic Network Consultants, Inc.
524 East 9th Street
Washington, NC  27889
252-946-0351 .::. Office
252-402-5296 .::. Cell
252-946-8763 .::. Fax
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Visit us on the web at:  http://www.strategicconsultants.net



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] OT..Question

Sorry for this one guys.  Everyone knows I'm an RF guy not a network  
guy so hence the question...and it is wireless in naturesort of

I bought a new laptop for one of my guys. It of course has the  
dreaded MS Vista on it.  Is it possible to partition the hard drive,  
delete the OS on one partition and load XP without doing anything to  
the Vista OS??? If yes is there a freeware or other program available  
to assist my non-OS compliant butt???  :-)

If you want to reply offlist thats fine.

Tnx.

-B-

Bob Moldashel
[EMAIL PROTECTED]







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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Mike Hammett
No, no, Dell is to blame.  If a component manufacturer makes something and 
someone else puts it on their board\in their machine, they are the 
responsible ones.  ATI makes 64 bit Vista drivers, Dell does not have them 
available.  ATI won't install because it's a Dell machine.  There are many 
other drivers not available through Dell that are through someone else. 
Dell also doesn't have their software ready for this platform.  There are 
plenty of device manufacturers that don't have the drivers, though.


I don't buy the not having time to test...  Vista betas and release 
candidates have been available to developers for a couple years.  Vista 
release candidates were available to just about anyone else several months 
before release.  They had time, they just chose to slack off since they 
could blame it on someone else...  kinda like cable companies forcing their 
customers to digital systems and blaming it on the government's efforts to 
stop analog broadcasts.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Ryan Langseth [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


Thats because in about a year, SP1 will be released and clear up the 
major problems.I consider the first version of any new MS OS to be  a 
release candidate at best.  Frankly if they do not clean up the  Usability 
of Vista, it  will be the OS the drives me completely to OS  X or Linux. 
I already use the alternatives to windows a majority of  the time anyways, 
its just certain programs that I still need windows  (hint: Alvarion 
BreezeConfig for instance).  But apple and the major  linux distros are 
working to eliminating that need _without_ having to  piece it together 
myself.


These alternative OS's are also producing better products,  I upgraded  my 
old ibook to 10.5 without having to do any upgrade on the hardware,  and 
10.5 seems to be faster than 10.4. While part of this is because  of the 
limited hardware Apple needs to support, they still were able  to make 
major upgrades, support 2 hardware architectures,  and it is  still built 
better.  The desktop linux distros are getting closer to  products that 
anyone can use,  again there is no hardware upgrade  needed.


You can see these alternatives are scaring MS,  just look at  graphics, 
Vista supports OpenGL as a software compatibility in  DirectX, and its 
performance is poor. Why? Because they want to lock  game developers to 
their proprietary system, so that those games  cannot be ported to other 
OS's which I personally hope backfires on  them.   Microsoft needs to drop 
the monopolistic, proprietary  attitude. Right now they can't even produce 
a standards compliant web  browser because of their business tactics.


Even Microsoft isn't using Vista on everything.  They are pushing to  get 
XO  to upgrade the OLPC hardware to run XP, not vista, because  they know 
they will never get vista to run on lower performance  machines. They also 
know they will lose entire continents to Linux if  the OLPC with linux 
becomes popular.



Frankly a lot of people do not use vista because of compatibility and 
usability issues,  once those are cleared up, right around SP1's  release, 
I will give it a try again as a personal system.  But it will  be another 
6 moths to a year until major corporations are ready to  deploy it,  They 
need to do regression testing, compatibility testing,  upgrades, etc. 
System changes should never be attempted ad-hoc,  unless you want to waste 
a lot of money and time.


DELL is not to blame for the drivers,  they don't produce the  hardware, 
they put it into systems.  blame the companies that make the  components 
and chipsets, Intel, Broadcom, ATI, Nvidia, and etc.  Also  make sure that 
when you lay that blame on them, you need to make sure  that the APIs 
available to them from MS were complete for vista.   Microsoft's blame on 
the hardware issues is somewhat apparent,  how  many features were 
dropped, severely changed or rewritten during the  much delayed release of 
Vista,  they released it not because it was  ready, but because they 
needed to do something


Just as much has to be blamed on the software vendors that produce  crap 
that runs on the OS,  the numerous hacks that MS has to build  into the 
new versions of each OS to support poorly written third party 
applications is ridiculous.


Ryan

On Dec 9, 2007, at 12:18 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO  HORRIBLE... 
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their  fabricated fears.  I've 
been using Vista for about 4 months and have  0 issues with Vista itself. 
Sure, I've had problems with vendors  who are slow to update 
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's  fault...  that's the fault 
of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.



-
Mike Hammett

RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Doug
Try driveragent.com for odd drivers.  I have a Sony Vaio from Japan and 
couldn't find an English ethernet driver, but I found one on there.  At our 
computer store we use it daily for any odd driver.  It's not free but the 
subscription is invaluable to us as computer people.  It's an ActiveX control 
that scans your devices and has a library of device codes for nearly everything.

-Original Message-
From: Mike Hammett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 2:54 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

No, no, Dell is to blame.  If a component manufacturer makes something and 
someone else puts it on their board\in their machine, they are the 
responsible ones.  ATI makes 64 bit Vista drivers, Dell does not have them 
available.  ATI won't install because it's a Dell machine.  There are many 
other drivers not available through Dell that are through someone else. 
Dell also doesn't have their software ready for this platform.  There are 
plenty of device manufacturers that don't have the drivers, though.

I don't buy the not having time to test...  Vista betas and release 
candidates have been available to developers for a couple years.  Vista 
release candidates were available to just about anyone else several months 
before release.  They had time, they just chose to slack off since they 
could blame it on someone else...  kinda like cable companies forcing their 
customers to digital systems and blaming it on the government's efforts to 
stop analog broadcasts.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - 
From: Ryan Langseth [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question


 Thats because in about a year, SP1 will be released and clear up the 
 major problems.I consider the first version of any new MS OS to be  a 
 release candidate at best.  Frankly if they do not clean up the  Usability 
 of Vista, it  will be the OS the drives me completely to OS  X or Linux. 
 I already use the alternatives to windows a majority of  the time anyways, 
 its just certain programs that I still need windows  (hint: Alvarion 
 BreezeConfig for instance).  But apple and the major  linux distros are 
 working to eliminating that need _without_ having to  piece it together 
 myself.

 These alternative OS's are also producing better products,  I upgraded  my 
 old ibook to 10.5 without having to do any upgrade

[The entire original message is not included]




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Butch Evans

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate 
Version, without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a 
learning curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions. 
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going 
backwards.


I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux 
and get started with the learning curve.


--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf
Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html



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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Jeff Broadwick
Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.

I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get
started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread WWS2
 
In a message dated 12/9/2007 6:48:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Hi  Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my  family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff  



Depending upon how 'top' you need it to be, either buy a HP on sale or call  
your local High School and get one of the computer students to give you an  
online shopping list of parts and put it together.
 
Walter



**Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread WWS2
 
In a message dated 12/9/2007 3:16:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

On Sun,  9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Why is everyone so down on  Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the  Beta Version-now using the Ultimate 
Version, without problems [laptops  and PC's].  I think it is more a 
learning curve with so many  changes rom the earlier versions. 
Vista is here to stay and you should  be learning t-not going 
backwards.

I agree with the learning  and not going backwardsInstall Linux 
and get started with the  learning curve.



Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for  
it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to  MicroSoft
But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so  
easily.  



**Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest 
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson




Jeff,

A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for "family" use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:

  Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.

  
  
I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install Linux and get
started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical 
machine running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower?


Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO 
HORRIBLE...  but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their 
fabricated fears.  I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 
issues with Vista itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who 
are slow to update software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's 
fault...  that's the fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long  
time,
starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems
[laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning curve with so  
many changes
from the earlier versions.  Vista is here to stay and you  should be 
learning

it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
hottest

products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) 




 


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RE: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Jonathan Schmidt
We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less
than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense but
drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. 

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with
a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO
(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that VISTA was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs.

It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively
help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I upgrade to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
 Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...  
 but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.  
 I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista 
 itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update 
 software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the 
 fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com


 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question



 In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 dreaded  MS Vista


 Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
 time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
 without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
 curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here 
 to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


 Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
 Xanadu Group Inc.
 179 Statesville Quarry Road
 Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
 973-702-3899
 fax  775-667-1995




 **Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
 hottest products.
 (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
 0001)



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[WISPA] Orinoco AP with packet loss (AP-1000)

2007-12-09 Thread Luke Pack
I have a problem that has been killing me lately.  I have an Orinoco AP with 
an Omni antenna.  I have about 20 clients or so that are hooked up to it. 
Lately ONLY at night this gets huge packet loss on the AP.  Local noise 
levels are not great anymore- but they are the same during the day (when it 
works fine) as they are at night.  Before I actually try to find a way to 
get some spectrum analysis out there during the problem (9:00 pm to about 
8-9 am) I was wondering if anyone might have some possibilities or 
suggestions?  It is noisy out that way with 2 other competitors totaling 
around 6 towers all in 2.4 range.  I have noticed a lot of retransmits on 
the AP in question, but again, the same amount when it is working as when it 
is not working.  the customers have about 0-1% loss during the day and 
10-40% loss at night. I have tried many different pig-tails and cards in the 
unit and checked the cable and connectors


Thanks for any help!

Regards,

Luke 





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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Dylan Oliver
You are either a troll or willfully ignorant. There are tens of thousands of
programs available for linux:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ sudo wajig list-names | sed -e '/lib/d' | wc
Password:
17883 17883 239642

There are 17883 packages (which do not match the phrase 'lib', to weed out
about 7000 libraries) available for immediate installation on my system.

On Dec 9, 2007 6:36 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Maybe if apple or linux had hundreds of thousands of programs written for
 it, they would be of benefit or offer a little competition to
  MicroSoft
 But when it is barely into the hundreds, it is easy to have it work so
 easily.



-- 
Dylan Oliver
Primaverity, LLC



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Steve
Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier than
window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every
computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:
 Jeff,

 A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
 family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
 headaches of a Linux box for family use.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 Hi Butch,

 I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
 desk-top would be best at this point?

 Jeff 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Butch Evans
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

 On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
 Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
 time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
 without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
 curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
 Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.
 

 I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and get
 started with the learning curve.

 --
 Butch Evans
 Network Engineering and Security Consulting
 573-276-2879
 http://www.butchevans.com/
 My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
 http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 
 
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson




Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the
expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster
Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods? 

Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but
there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).

Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:

  Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier than
window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every
computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:
  
  
Jeff,

A "family" computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for "family" use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


  Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What Linux
desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.


  
  I agree with the "learning and not going backwards"Install Linux and get
started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread D. Ryan Spott

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all  
the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller  
Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows...  
but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier  
than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you  
will

find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the  
switch

to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on  
every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for family use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.   
What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate  
Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a  
learning

curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going  
backwards.



I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall  
Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified  
Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] Orinoco AP with packet loss (AP-1000)

2007-12-09 Thread Bob Moldashel

Luke,

This sounds like a water in the connector issue.  With moisture in  
a connector you will see high retransmits when the moisture  
crystalizes when it changes to ice at night.


Time to rip everything apart and look for ANY moisture in the  
connectors.  It also depends on what antenna you are using.  We have  
seen a fair share of omnis and panels weep water over time and lead  
up to the problem you have.


I highly doubt that it is an interference issue only at night.

I would rip everything apart.  Remove the antenna and shake it  
listening for moisture. But at the price of an omni I would just  
change it out to safe.


-B-
On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:50 PM, Luke Pack wrote:

I have a problem that has been killing me lately.  I have an  
Orinoco AP with an Omni antenna.  I have about 20 clients or so  
that are hooked up to it. Lately ONLY at night this gets huge  
packet loss on the AP.  Local noise levels are not great anymore-  
but they are the same during the day (when it works fine) as they  
are at night.  Before I actually try to find a way to get some  
spectrum analysis out there during the problem (9:00 pm to about  
8-9 am) I was wondering if anyone might have some possibilities or  
suggestions?  It is noisy out that way with 2 other competitors  
totaling around 6 towers all in 2.4 range.  I have noticed a lot of  
retransmits on the AP in question, but again, the same amount when  
it is working as when it is not working.  the customers have about  
0-1% loss during the day and 10-40% loss at night. I have tried  
many different pig-tails and cards in the unit and checked the  
cable and connectors


Thanks for any help!

Regards,

Luke


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[EMAIL PROTECTED]






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[WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

2007-12-09 Thread cam
Hello all,

I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this link is
only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit radio.)
We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango Link
45, etc..

We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The link is
about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need for the
upgrade that is about 20 miles.

Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.

I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm sure many
of you have not even dented this number.

I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost 40,000
compared to trango at around 10,000.

Thanks,

I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum to put
it

-Cameron



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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

2007-12-09 Thread Felix A. Lopez
Dragonwave and/or Orthogon are some others to
consider. Some of my old customers use them here in
the Bay Area, California.  


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello all,
 
 I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are
 currently using
 Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to
 Alvarion, this link is
 only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please
 call it a 32mbit radio.)
 We have looked into results on users who use
 Alvarion B100, Trango Link
 45, etc..
 
 We are open to all options...As long is it works
 very well. The link is
 about 3 miles, but we have another link that is
 causing the need for the
 upgrade that is about 20 miles.
 
 Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line
 that is very
 impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.
 
 I would like to know if people are using B100 what
 is the up/down max
 throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you
 running VoIP over
 this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over
 this link, i'm sure many
 of you have not even dented this number.
 
 I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have
 been well, but their
 packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B
 gear at almost 40,000
 compared to trango at around 10,000.
 
 Thanks,
 
 I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance
 and no spectrum to put
 it
 
 -Cameron
 
 


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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson




The _only_ reason Vista will still be around is because Microsoft is
forcing people to buy it with new computers. If they had an installer
when the person first turned the computer on that would allow a
selection of XP or Vista, I bet 95% of people would pick XP.

Travis
Microserv

Jonathan Schmidt wrote:

  We've standardized on XP/PRO SP2 for the office.

We tried Vista and, although some fanatics show it can be a bit but
definitely slower, that's not meaningful.

The computers, themselves, suffer intractable problems with Vista with less
than 2G memory, but with that memory or more, it's OK.  (Why it becomes
unstable under 2Gb is the subject of wild, physical arguments).

We haven't had driver problems.

We have had significantly more hang-ups with Vista.  Not many, but perhaps
50% more.

The GUI is, perhaps, more intuitive but it splits functionality that was, in
XP, in one place into several far flung places.  It may make more sense but
drives the old folks (over 20 years old) crazy. 

The reallocation of facilities that were in XP-HOME and XP-PRO into
fragmented pieces within an array of options of Vista upgrades is driving
the support guys nuts.  Ordinary users who had a handle on XP are now
calling support.

The removal of OUTLOOK 2007 from Student/Teacher 2007 meant that folks with
a teacher wife and student kids can't use it for work.  That just makes
people mad at Microsoft.

Since we stick with Lenovo/IBM for laptops, etc., we can still order XP/PRO
(at a small cost).

It doesn't appear that "VISTA" was a good business/technical decision on
Microsoft's part but I'm sure it will pay off through the sales of new PCs.

It's not the end of the world...it just appears dumb...really dumb.

It turns out that Macintosh computers with Microsoft Office have been more
and more popular and we accept that for our system.  They have caused no
problems...perhaps because the Mac-fanatics stick together and aggressively
help each other the way early PC users used to do.  There are only a tiny
fraction of PC users that utilize applications that aren't available on
Macintosh as the same or better.  That argument doesn't fly anymore.

. . . J o n a t h a n



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Travis Johnson
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 7:02 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

Hi,

Every single test out there shows Vista is SLOWER on an identical machine
running XP. Why would I "upgrade" to an OS that is slower?

Travis
Microserv

Mike Hammett wrote:
  
  
Agreed.  This happens with every OS release...  It's OH SO HORRIBLE...  
but then in a year or so, everyone forgets their fabricated fears.  
I've been using Vista for about 4 months and have 0 issues with Vista 
itself.  Sure, I've had problems with vendors who are slow to update 
software\drivers, but that's not Microsoft's fault...  that's the 
fault of lazy vendors *cough* DELL *cough*.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com


- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question




  In a message dated 12/9/2007 11:25:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

dreaded  MS Vista


Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
curve with so many changes from the earlier versions.  Vista is here 
to stay and you  should be learning it-not going backwards.


Walter W.  Stumpf Jr.
Xanadu Group Inc.
179 Statesville Quarry Road
Lafayette NJ  07848-3128 USA
973-702-3899
fax  775-667-1995




**Check out AOL's list of 2007's 
hottest products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000300
0001)



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Steve
haven't tried those games but  some might work with wine

http://appdb.winehq.org/appbrowse.php?catId=0

Steve
--

Travis Johnson wrote:
 Hi,

 My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the
 expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster
 Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?

 Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but
 there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).

 Travis
 Microserv

 Steve wrote:
 Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier than
 window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
 removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
 find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
 Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
 ubuntu/kubuntu.
 I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
 to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
 Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on every
 computer we buy.
 :-)
 Steve

 --


 Travis Johnson wrote:
   
 Jeff,

 A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
 family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
 headaches of a Linux box for family use.

 Travis
 Microserv

 Jeff Broadwick wrote:
 
 Hi Butch,

 I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  What 
 Linux
 desk-top would be best at this point?

 Jeff 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Butch Evans
 Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

 On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
   
 Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long 
 time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version, 
 without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning 
 curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
 Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going backwards.
 
 
 I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall Linux and 
 get
 started with the learning curve.

 --
 Butch Evans
 Network Engineering and Security Consulting
 573-276-2879
 http://www.butchevans.com/
 My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant
 http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 
 
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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread Travis Johnson
Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP laptop 
that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out of a Mac 
laptop is $1,400.


Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all the 
expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller Coaster 
Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows... but 
there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is easier 
than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you will
find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the switch
to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$ on 
every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs your
family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for family use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my family.  
What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:




Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a learning
curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going 
backwards.



I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall 
Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified 
Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html


 



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Re: [WISPA] OT......Question

2007-12-09 Thread D. Ryan Spott

$1000.00 You need to get out more! :)

Easy.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:32 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:

Now we aren't comparing Apples to Oranges (literally). A new HP  
laptop that is decent is $600 at Best Buy. The same performance out  
of a Mac laptop is $1,400.


Travis
Microserv

D. Ryan Spott wrote:

Mac OS.

ryan


On Dec 9, 2007, at 8:04 PM, Travis Johnson wrote:


Hi,

My two daughters both have laptops. They both play Sims2 with all  
the expansion packs. Will that run on Ubuntu? What about Roller  
Coaster Tycoon? What about iTunes for their iPods?


Trust me, I would _love_ to be done with Microsoft and Windows...  
but there is no way to do it at this point (at least that I can  
see).


Travis
Microserv

Steve wrote:


Ubuntu Linux is great for a family computer.  The install is  
easier than

window, you won't have the headaches of endless virus and spyware
removal issues. it is just as easy to learn as M$ windoze and you  
will

find that in the end you  are ahead of the game.
Anyone who fears linux for the novice user hasn't experienced
ubuntu/kubuntu.
I have encouraged quite a few budding computer users to make the  
switch

to ubuntu and they have abandoned windoze and aren't looking back.
Soon more people will be wondering why we have to pay tax to M$  
on every

computer we buy.
:-)
Steve

--


Travis Johnson wrote:


Jeff,

A family computer should still be Windows. Too many programs  
your

family will want to run will require Windows. It's not worth the
headaches of a Linux box for family use.

Travis
Microserv

Jeff Broadwick wrote:


Hi Butch,

I'm getting close to a decision on a new computer for my  
family.  What Linux

desk-top would be best at this point?

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
] On

Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 3:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] OT..Question

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Why is everyone so down on Vista?  I have been using it for a  
long
time, starting with the Beta Version-now using the Ultimate  
Version,
without problems [laptops and PC's].  I think it is more a  
learning

curve with so many changes rom the earlier versions.
Vista is here to stay and you should be learning t-not going  
backwards.



I agree with the learning and not going backwardsInstall  
Linux and get

started with the learning curve.

--
Butch Evans
Network Engineering and Security Consulting
573-276-2879
http://www.butchevans.com/
My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6
Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified  
Consultant

http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html




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Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

2007-12-09 Thread Ryan Langseth
If you want to stay in the unlicensed spectrum, you could check out  
the 24GHz range,  it should be able to do 3 miles, not sure on the  
dish size though.  Dragonwave has a product in that range.


Ryan

On Dec 9, 2007, at 10:25 PM, Felix A. Lopez wrote:


Dragonwave and/or Orthogon are some others to
consider. Some of my old customers use them here in
the Bay Area, California.


--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hello all,

I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are
currently using
Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to
Alvarion, this link is
only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please
call it a 32mbit radio.)
We have looked into results on users who use
Alvarion B100, Trango Link
45, etc..

We are open to all options...As long is it works
very well. The link is
about 3 miles, but we have another link that is
causing the need for the
upgrade that is about 20 miles.

Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line
that is very
impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.

I would like to know if people are using B100 what
is the up/down max
throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you
running VoIP over
this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over
this link, i'm sure many
of you have not even dented this number.

I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have
been well, but their
packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B
gear at almost 40,000
compared to trango at around 10,000.

Thanks,

I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance
and no spectrum to put
it

-Cameron






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RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

2007-12-09 Thread ralph
Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a couple
of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double it- I was
in a hurry.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Hello all,

I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this link is
only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit radio.)
We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango Link
45, etc..

We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The link is
about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need for the
upgrade that is about 20 miles.

Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.

I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm sure many
of you have not even dented this number.

I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost 40,000
compared to trango at around 10,000.

Thanks,

I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum to put
it

-Cameron




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RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

2007-12-09 Thread Bill Price
What about Tranzeo?

Bill

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Langseth
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:56 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

If you want to stay in the unlicensed spectrum, you could check out  
the 24GHz range,  it should be able to do 3 miles, not sure on the  
dish size though.  Dragonwave has a product in that range.

Ryan

On Dec 9, 2007, at 10:25 PM, Felix A. Lopez wrote:

 Dragonwave and/or Orthogon are some others to
 consider. Some of my old customers use them here in
 the Bay Area, California.


 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hello all,

 I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are
 currently using
 Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to
 Alvarion, this link is
 only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please
 call it a 32mbit radio.)
 We have looked into results on users who use
 Alvarion B100, Trango Link
 45, etc..

 We are open to all options...As long is it works
 very well. The link is
 about 3 miles, but we have another link that is
 causing the need for the
 upgrade that is about 20 miles.

 Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line
 that is very
 impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.

 I would like to know if people are using B100 what
 is the up/down max
 throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you
 running VoIP over
 this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over
 this link, i'm sure many
 of you have not even dented this number.

 I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have
 been well, but their
 packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B
 gear at almost 40,000
 compared to trango at around 10,000.

 Thanks,

 I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance
 and no spectrum to put
 it

 -Cameron






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RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

2007-12-09 Thread Brad Belton
Hello Cameron,

As good as Alvarion gear is or may be, it is still best effort gear and not
committed rate.  Many factors will play into what an end user will actually
be able to produce across Alvarion gear.

If you are looking for a committed rate backhaul you need to look at the
Trango GigaLINK gear again.  Completely different class of hardware than the
VL backhaul products.  Yes, it will cost more, but the saying holds true;
you get what you pay for.  Your 3mile link is a cake walk for 18GHz and if
you have the tower space for 6' antennas the 6GHz GigaLINK is perfect for
your 20 mile link.

BTW Ralph, our tests on the bench with VL between two MikroTik 3GHz routers
was decent in HDX.  Problem we saw was went you started pushing data heavily
in both directions the link all but fell apart.  Not what you need to have
happen on a critical backhaul.  grin

Best,


Brad


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Funny you should ask. I tested a B-100 going 500 feet with Qcheck a couple
of days ago and got only 38 Mb.
I'm not sure if Qcheck reads out correctly or if I have to double it- I was
in a hurry.




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 11:12 PM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Wireless Backhaul options/test/results

Hello all,

I am in the need of upgrading some backhauls. We are currently using
Alvarion AUVL units with a SU-54-BD. According to Alvarion, this link is
only capable of 16mbit each way (Alvarion, please call it a 32mbit radio.)
We have looked into results on users who use Alvarion B100, Trango Link
45, etc..

We are open to all options...As long is it works very well. The link is
about 3 miles, but we have another link that is causing the need for the
upgrade that is about 20 miles.

Trango has licensed gear in the 6ghz and 18ghz line that is very
impressive, but just too expensive for us right now.

I would like to know if people are using B100 what is the up/down max
throughput that you have seen? 50/50? etc.. Are you running VoIP over
this? Alvarion claims 1000 concurrent calls over this link, i'm sure many
of you have not even dented this number.

I am growing to be a big fan of Trango, but have been well, but their
packet per seconds is a lot less than Alvarion B gear at almost 40,000
compared to trango at around 10,000.

Thanks,

I man in dire need of a lot of bandwidth, distance and no spectrum to put
it

-Cameron





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