Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
Where we have seen a difference in value of equipment is in the failure/repair rate. Ours is horrible. The success or failure of build-em-yourself radios depends GREATLY on the quality of the install/installer (we have alot of StarOS, alot of weatherproofing tape, alot of pigtails, alot of jumpers). With UBNT, we are hoping to get a good balance between price of CPE and reduce the chance of carelessness costing us a service call down the road. For instance, I used Tranzeo for a while (a couple hundred of them - integrated antenna models), and those CPE either worked or died, but never had install quality problems. So, there is value in equipment if it facilitates easy quick installs and doesn't require a service call later because of a stupid pigtail not being connected to the radio quite right. - Original Message - From: Faisal Imtiaz To: WISPA General List Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Those prices are crazy... yes.. but the are here and I believe that they will stay like this for a while.. ATT is fighting to compensate for it's declining business in phone lines. and Comcast is eagerly looking to eat ATT's lunch. I agree with you about sticking with Moto if and when they come thru.. but you will also have to calculate your ROI.. I don't understand your comment about Moto having sync and same Throughput as UBNT MIMO ? ... are you referring to PMP430 ... I thought that was 802.11n MIMO as well. Would love to hear some comparison for feedback on the PMP430 The links we are putting up are capable of doing 30-75meg (tcp thruput) in 20mhz channel and about 60-150meg (tcp thuput) in 40mhz channel. The gear is cheap.. so we are choosing to build towers/pop to service a 5mile radius tops. The trick is to use the dual polarity antennas (from UBNT) and with the M radios, rather than trying to hack some sort of a hybird.. (there are folks who are doing that for transition purposes). The equipment is in-expensive... so why do an Omni . I am not so worried about the plastic radios, I am also not looking for them to last 10 years either... So far, we have not seen any issues in running VOIP on these links either... but then again, we are not needing to put 200 subs on a single AP either. For right now, they are a great tool in the tool bag, until someone else steps up to the plate. So far all of the other MIMO, 802.11n radio producers have offered rather expensive PTP solutions only... It is hard to figure out it is worth it to pay an extra $1500 or $2000 per link for another mfg's MIMO PTP solution vs UBNT. Time will tell meanwhile for us.. have to use what is available... Supposedly, Firing up UBNT Radios with Airmax on them, gives a lot of grief to Moto Canopy and I am very much interested to see how their 802.11n implementation on 900mhz performs what they are showing on their spec sheets is definetly making everyone shake their heads and say... I really want to see that to believe it.. ...we will find in out about 45 days when the radios become available in the US. Loosely speaking, don't let anyone tell you that there is value in Equipment, I have a backroom full of $150,000(each)Redback Routers which are not worth $1500each any moreFor a WISP or ISP the value is purely in the subscriber base there is some intrinsic value in equipment, to the degree that can be leveraged to add more revenue generating services.. Regards. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
I do. Tis cool. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 1:27 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts BTW... as I have said earlier.. the UBNT is 95% baked...and work in progress.. Earlier in the day there was a post on the UBNT forum, claiming that a software bug has been identified which was causing the Ap Sm not to pass any dataand is expected to the fixed shortly.. I would suggest that you keep an eye out for that.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 8/9/2010 12:54 AM, Robert West wrote: Lockups with watchdog enabled also. Doesn’t help in my case. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 11:39 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Hi Faisal and the list We have also been using UBNT quite a bit lately over the last couple of years. I’m anxious to try some of the 900 and 3.65 when the time is right. Nano 2 and Nano 5 have been in our arsenal for as long as they have been out. Never had a lick of trouble with them other than a WPA issue on the very first ones. It got fixed quickly in firmware. Have now been using Nano 5M for some short links as well. They seem to work well, giving great throughput, but we have had a couple that want to lock up. Haven’t put the watchdog on yet. I think the issue is likely with WPA- seems like that has been an issue with several manufacturers who use that chipset. I think the UBNT forum has some threads on that. We try to keep them on the latest firmware (and sometimes on the beta ). We have a PowerStation 5 link with 2 2’ dishes going 20+ miles and it just hasn’t missed a beat. Recently lightning took out all the Tranzeo and Deliberant on the tower and only 2 things kept on ticking: The Canopy AP and the PowerStation 5. A lot of our old Deliberant and Tranzeo gear is getting eaten by lightning and some of the Deliberant boxes (the gray ones) are beginning to leak and corrode inside, so we are switching to UBNT as that happens. We have a long Rocket 5M link up with 2’ dishes and it works pretty well so far. Because of the 20 mile distance, we need to increase dish size though. Signal isn’t good enough to use Airmax. Just put up a tower cluster of 3 Rocket 2 radios/sectors replacing some Deliberant 2700s. So far so good, but don’t have enough users on it yet to tell about any issues with the sector patterns. We have never used a piece of uncertified gear! I value my license (Amateur one) too much to get involved with illegal activities and the FCC. They tend to go harshly on Licensees for violations even in other services. The Latvians make great routers (we use them almost exclusively) but I wouldn’t touch their wireless with a 10 foot pole. There is plenty of reasonably priced great gear out there whose manufacturers do go the extra distance to get certified. Just my .02 from a good old Southern boy. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP H.which models .? What version of firmware. ? We have been using the M gear...and have not seen any lockups Fwiw...the also have watchdog built in for reboots... Faisal On Aug 8, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: We have been trying to use UBNT Nanos for quite a while in trailer parks and other ¼ to ½ mile LoS links. The issues we are finding is that the dang things just stop. The first time we have to do a truck roll to reset the unit, or replace it, it would be cheaper to buy a MT solution. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com - Author of http://www.routerosbook.com/ Learn RouterOS From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP You might have something philosophical there Bob. Do we choose equipment that is like us - lots of trouble and need plenty of attention? LOL! On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: But they are awesomely reliable and require no maintenance. Where is the fun in all of that? I desire a product that demands constant attention. -Albert -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 11:03 PM To: WISPA General List
[WISPA] UBNT thoughts
Hi Faisal and the list We have also been using UBNT quite a bit lately over the last couple of years. I’m anxious to try some of the 900 and 3.65 when the time is right. Nano 2 and Nano 5 have been in our arsenal for as long as they have been out. Never had a lick of trouble with them other than a WPA issue on the very first ones. It got fixed quickly in firmware. Have now been using Nano 5M for some short links as well. They seem to work well, giving great throughput, but we have had a couple that want to lock up. Haven’t put the watchdog on yet. I think the issue is likely with WPA- seems like that has been an issue with several manufacturers who use that chipset. I think the UBNT forum has some threads on that. We try to keep them on the latest firmware (and sometimes on the beta ). We have a PowerStation 5 link with 2 2’ dishes going 20+ miles and it just hasn’t missed a beat. Recently lightning took out all the Tranzeo and Deliberant on the tower and only 2 things kept on ticking: The Canopy AP and the PowerStation 5. A lot of our old Deliberant and Tranzeo gear is getting eaten by lightning and some of the Deliberant boxes (the gray ones) are beginning to leak and corrode inside, so we are switching to UBNT as that happens. We have a long Rocket 5M link up with 2’ dishes and it works pretty well so far. Because of the 20 mile distance, we need to increase dish size though. Signal isn’t good enough to use Airmax. Just put up a tower cluster of 3 Rocket 2 radios/sectors replacing some Deliberant 2700s. So far so good, but don’t have enough users on it yet to tell about any issues with the sector patterns. We have never used a piece of uncertified gear! I value my license (Amateur one) too much to get involved with illegal activities and the FCC. They tend to go harshly on Licensees for violations even in other services. The Latvians make great routers (we use them almost exclusively) but I wouldn’t touch their wireless with a 10 foot pole. There is plenty of reasonably priced great gear out there whose manufacturers do go the extra distance to get certified. Just my .02 from a good old Southern boy. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP H.which models .? What version of firmware. ? We have been using the M gear...and have not seen any lockups Fwiw...the also have watchdog built in for reboots... Faisal On Aug 8, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: We have been trying to use UBNT Nanos for quite a while in trailer parks and other ¼ to ½ mile LoS links. The issues we are finding is that the dang things just stop. The first time we have to do a truck roll to reset the unit, or replace it, it would be cheaper to buy a MT solution. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com Training - Author of http://www.routerosbook.com/ Learn RouterOS From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP You might have something philosophical there Bob. Do we choose equipment that is like us - lots of trouble and need plenty of attention? LOL! On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: But they are awesomely reliable and require no maintenance. Where is the fun in all of that? I desire a product that demands constant attention. -Albert -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 11:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP Mikrotik :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP Does anyone have certified gear other than Motorola and Redline? -- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join
Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
UBNT is giving me headaches, I have canopy and I am loosing sleep at night because of the price of this UBNT gear and wondering if I should start deploying it or not. There is canopy gear out there that is 5 years old and still in service. Does anyone think that the UBNT gear will last this long or will it be like the 802.11b stuff in a couple years where you were basically throwing it all in the trash? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 11:39 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Hi Faisal and the list We have also been using UBNT quite a bit lately over the last couple of years. Im anxious to try some of the 900 and 3.65 when the time is right. Nano 2 and Nano 5 have been in our arsenal for as long as they have been out. Never had a lick of trouble with them other than a WPA issue on the very first ones. It got fixed quickly in firmware. Have now been using Nano 5M for some short links as well. They seem to work well, giving great throughput, but we have had a couple that want to lock up. Havent put the watchdog on yet. I think the issue is likely with WPA- seems like that has been an issue with several manufacturers who use that chipset. I think the UBNT forum has some threads on that. We try to keep them on the latest firmware (and sometimes on the beta ). We have a PowerStation 5 link with 2 2 dishes going 20+ miles and it just hasnt missed a beat. Recently lightning took out all the Tranzeo and Deliberant on the tower and only 2 things kept on ticking: The Canopy AP and the PowerStation 5. A lot of our old Deliberant and Tranzeo gear is getting eaten by lightning and some of the Deliberant boxes (the gray ones) are beginning to leak and corrode inside, so we are switching to UBNT as that happens. We have a long Rocket 5M link up with 2 dishes and it works pretty well so far. Because of the 20 mile distance, we need to increase dish size though. Signal isnt good enough to use Airmax. Just put up a tower cluster of 3 Rocket 2 radios/sectors replacing some Deliberant 2700s. So far so good, but dont have enough users on it yet to tell about any issues with the sector patterns. We have never used a piece of uncertified gear! I value my license (Amateur one) too much to get involved with illegal activities and the FCC. They tend to go harshly on Licensees for violations even in other services. The Latvians make great routers (we use them almost exclusively) but I wouldnt touch their wireless with a 10 foot pole. There is plenty of reasonably priced great gear out there whose manufacturers do go the extra distance to get certified. Just my .02 from a good old Southern boy. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP H.which models .? What version of firmware. ? We have been using the M gear...and have not seen any lockups Fwiw...the also have watchdog built in for reboots... Faisal On Aug 8, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: We have been trying to use UBNT Nanos for quite a while in trailer parks and other ¼ to ½ mile LoS links. The issues we are finding is that the dang things just stop. The first time we have to do a truck roll to reset the unit, or replace it, it would be cheaper to buy a MT solution. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com - Author of http://www.routerosbook.com/ Learn RouterOS From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP You might have something philosophical there Bob. Do we choose equipment that is like us - lots of trouble and need plenty of attention? LOL! On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: But they are awesomely reliable and require no maintenance. Where is the fun in all of that? I desire a product that demands constant attention. -Albert -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 11:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP Mikrotik :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA
Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
Dunno, but since UBNT now has Chuck from Motorola on board (and Motorola does not), I would not be surprised to see some interesting things down the road. Perhaps some sort of synch. If that were added, UBNT would seriously have a product that could come close to the things we like about Canopy. I do run UBNT, but also run/have run/have deployed lots of Canopy and I do see the advantages (no pun intended). You are right about throwing stuff in the trash. Im glad UBNT used Motos idea of the plastic case with the slip on cover. If water *were* to get in, it would easily drain out. On the Nanos (or the Canopys), I have never seen a water issue, so I think that was a good thing to copy. The Deliberant boxes had fancy gaskets (that stretched out and then fell out of the groove) and blots holding the hinged door closed. But I think the water intrusion happened at the bulkhead N connectors on the connectorized ones. They never seemed to tighten successfully and that was where the corrosion was a lot of the time. W4KIP, a great Ham mentor and inventor, taught me many years ago that it was nearly impossible to really waterproof something like that unless you were spending a LOT of money. It was better to just make a way for moisture to drain. Ralph From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 7:09 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts UBNT is giving me headaches, I have canopy and I am loosing sleep at night because of the price of this UBNT gear and wondering if I should start deploying it or not. There is canopy gear out there that is 5 years old and still in service. Does anyone think that the UBNT gear will last this long or will it be like the 802.11b stuff in a couple years where you were basically throwing it all in the trash? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 11:39 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Hi Faisal and the list We have also been using UBNT quite a bit lately over the last couple of years. Im anxious to try some of the 900 and 3.65 when the time is right. Nano 2 and Nano 5 have been in our arsenal for as long as they have been out. Never had a lick of trouble with them other than a WPA issue on the very first ones. It got fixed quickly in firmware. Have now been using Nano 5M for some short links as well. They seem to work well, giving great throughput, but we have had a couple that want to lock up. Havent put the watchdog on yet. I think the issue is likely with WPA- seems like that has been an issue with several manufacturers who use that chipset. I think the UBNT forum has some threads on that. We try to keep them on the latest firmware (and sometimes on the beta ). We have a PowerStation 5 link with 2 2 dishes going 20+ miles and it just hasnt missed a beat. Recently lightning took out all the Tranzeo and Deliberant on the tower and only 2 things kept on ticking: The Canopy AP and the PowerStation 5. A lot of our old Deliberant and Tranzeo gear is getting eaten by lightning and some of the Deliberant boxes (the gray ones) are beginning to leak and corrode inside, so we are switching to UBNT as that happens. We have a long Rocket 5M link up with 2 dishes and it works pretty well so far. Because of the 20 mile distance, we need to increase dish size though. Signal isnt good enough to use Airmax. Just put up a tower cluster of 3 Rocket 2 radios/sectors replacing some Deliberant 2700s. So far so good, but dont have enough users on it yet to tell about any issues with the sector patterns. We have never used a piece of uncertified gear! I value my license (Amateur one) too much to get involved with illegal activities and the FCC. They tend to go harshly on Licensees for violations even in other services. The Latvians make great routers (we use them almost exclusively) but I wouldnt touch their wireless with a 10 foot pole. There is plenty of reasonably priced great gear out there whose manufacturers do go the extra distance to get certified. Just my .02 from a good old Southern boy. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP H.which models .? What version of firmware. ? We have been using the M gear...and have not seen any lockups Fwiw...the also have watchdog built in for reboots... Faisal On Aug 8, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: We have been trying to use UBNT Nanos for quite a while in trailer parks and other ¼ to ½ mile LoS links. The issues we are finding is that the dang things just stop
Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
Well. I don't know how things are in Ohio... but in our neck of the woods, things are getting interesting. Will high light 3 points, you make your own conclusions. 1. For our area, broadband is pretty much a duopoly . Comcast is doing this http://business.comcast.com/internet/plans.aspx Comcast Resi: 1.5m x 384k $24.95/month 15meg x 3meg $42.95/month ATT DSLResi : . http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=11575source=ICDS25115W0DWPCPO DSL Bussiness: http://smallbusiness.bellsouth.com/internet_dsl_services.html U-Verse Resi : http://www.att.com/u-verse/explore/internet-landing.jsp U-Verse Business http://smallbusiness.bellsouth.com/uverse_internet.html ATT Comcast are now going at it with each other aggressively.. .I just ordered Naked Uverse service for 3 residential locations $24.95 each with $29activation, not install, no contract, no equipment fees, (att will provide onsite install router) 12 month promo... for 18meg x 1 meg service. 2. Our customers are wanting faster internet without having to pay top dollars for it. the direction things are going in ... in most metro areas sub 10meg (asymmetric) are most likely going to be the dialup accounts of yesterday... 3. Questions for WISP's What technology is available on the shelf, even half baked that can be deployed in the field that can allow you to deliver competitive services to your customers ? If you don't do that. then be prepared to be marginalized shortly... Having said that...Our past experience as a Wireline ISP has been that... 3-5 years is a petty good amount of time to get your money's worth from equipment deployed in the field.. after that much time, you have to start a technology replenishment cycle.. Based on what I know, today, UBNT has the most affordable, almost working 95%.baked, 802.11n MIMO gear available and is rapidly making improvements... I also know that there a few other folks feverishly working on getting 802.11n , MIMO radios / drivers / hardware to the market place.. So.. tomorrow is definitely going to be a brighter day for the WISP's... but you have to start laying out strategy / and planning from now... We consider ourselves fortunate, having spent over $10,000 in legacy gear (Alvarion, Trango, Moto Canoly, Staros) which was NEVER Deployed (only tested in the lab..) have choose to start our deployment with the 802.11n Gear from UBNT.. I am sure we will pay a price for learning, as we go along, but it is the only stuff that at the moment has the potential to give us a fighting chance to be able to compete and survive as a decent sized niche provider. (ohh.. did I forget to mention.. in our area.. you have to offer phone services as well.. ) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/8/2010 7:09 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: UBNT is giving me headaches, I have canopy and I am loosing sleep at night because of the price of this UBNT gear and wondering if I should start deploying it or not. There is canopy gear out there that is 5 years old and still in service. Does anyone think that the UBNT gear will last this long or will it be like the 802.11b stuff in a couple years where you were basically throwing it all in the trash? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Ralph *Sent:* Sunday, August 08, 2010 11:39 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Hi Faisal and the list We have also been using UBNT quite a bit lately over the last couple of years. I'm anxious to try some of the 900 and 3.65 when the time is right. Nano 2 and Nano 5 have been in our arsenal for as long as they have been out. Never had a lick of trouble with them other than a WPA issue on the very first ones. It got fixed quickly in firmware. Have now been using Nano 5M for some short links as well. They seem to work well, giving great throughput, but we have had a couple that want to lock up. Haven't put the watchdog on yet. I think the issue is likely with WPA- seems like that has been an issue with several manufacturers who use that chipset. I think the UBNT forum has some threads on that. We try to keep them on the latest firmware (and sometimes on the beta ). We have a PowerStation 5 link with 2 2' dishes going 20+ miles and it just hasn't missed a beat. Recently lightning took out all the Tranzeo and Deliberant on the tower and only 2 things kept on ticking: The Canopy AP and the PowerStation 5. A lot of our old Deliberant and Tranzeo gear is getting eaten by lightning and some of the Deliberant boxes (the gray ones
Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
Those prices are crazy on the DSL, 15/month without phone line with no contract, how can any wireless provider compete. However whats going to happen when they have that many DSL subs with the crosstalk? Will their service degrade? Also, I have been looking at the Moto PMP430 series and I hear rumors of a 2.4ghz OFDM line coming, (my prayers may be answered). These products would be equivalent to the UBNT MIMO in speeds. Im not too crazy about the UBNT plastic shell as they just seem of less quality when you stick them side by side to the Moto gear. I doubt we will be seeing SYNC on the UBNT stuff anytime soon, might even require a complete new product line. However, considering the MOTO gear has sync TODAY and the same throughput as UBNT MIMO and the moto stuff is non-MIMO, I would go with the MOTO because I can put up an Omni versus the UBNT I need a bunch of sectors. Also if the market plays like it did with the old Canopy FSK gear at least our equipment will hold re-sale value if we do have to change it down the road versus the UBNT I fear you will have a hard time finding someone to give it away too. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:49 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Well. I don't know how things are in Ohio... but in our neck of the woods, things are getting interesting. Will high light 3 points, you make your own conclusions. 1. For our area, broadband is pretty much a duopoly . Comcast is doing this http://business.comcast.com/internet/plans.aspx Comcast Resi: 1.5m x 384k $24.95/month 15meg x 3meg $42.95/month ATT DSLResi : . http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=11575 http://www.att.com/gen/general?pid=11575source=ICDS25115W0DWPCPO source=ICDS25115W0DWPCPO DSL Bussiness: http://smallbusiness.bellsouth.com/internet_dsl_services.html U-Verse Resi : http://www.att.com/u-verse/explore/internet-landing.jsp U-Verse Business http://smallbusiness.bellsouth.com/uverse_internet.html ATT Comcast are now going at it with each other aggressively.. .I just ordered Naked Uverse service for 3 residential locations $24.95 each with $29activation, not install, no contract, no equipment fees, (att will provide onsite install router) 12 month promo... for 18meg x 1 meg service. 2. Our customers are wanting faster internet without having to pay top dollars for it. the direction things are going in ... in most metro areas sub 10meg (asymmetric) are most likely going to be the dialup accounts of yesterday... 3. Questions for WISP's What technology is available on the shelf, even half baked that can be deployed in the field that can allow you to deliver competitive services to your customers ? If you don't do that. then be prepared to be marginalized shortly... Having said that...Our past experience as a Wireline ISP has been that... 3-5 years is a petty good amount of time to get your money's worth from equipment deployed in the field.. after that much time, you have to start a technology replenishment cycle.. Based on what I know, today, UBNT has the most affordable, almost working 95%.baked, 802.11n MIMO gear available and is rapidly making improvements... I also know that there a few other folks feverishly working on getting 802.11n , MIMO radios / drivers / hardware to the market place.. So.. tomorrow is definitely going to be a brighter day for the WISP's... but you have to start laying out strategy / and planning from now... We consider ourselves fortunate, having spent over $10,000 in legacy gear (Alvarion, Trango, Moto Canoly, Staros) which was NEVER Deployed (only tested in the lab..) have choose to start our deployment with the 802.11n Gear from UBNT.. I am sure we will pay a price for learning, as we go along, but it is the only stuff that at the moment has the potential to give us a fighting chance to be able to compete and survive as a decent sized niche provider. (ohh.. did I forget to mention.. in our area.. you have to offer phone services as well.. ) Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, Fl 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Helpdesk: 305 663 5518 option 2 Email: supp...@snappydsl.net On 8/8/2010 7:09 PM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: UBNT is giving me headaches, I have canopy and I am loosing sleep at night because of the price of this UBNT gear and wondering if I should start deploying it or not. There is canopy gear out there that is 5 years old and still in service. Does anyone think that the UBNT gear will last this long or will it be like the 802.11b stuff in a couple years where you were basically throwing it all in the trash? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 _ From
Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
Lockups with watchdog enabled also. Doesn’t help in my case. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 11:39 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Hi Faisal and the list We have also been using UBNT quite a bit lately over the last couple of years. I’m anxious to try some of the 900 and 3.65 when the time is right. Nano 2 and Nano 5 have been in our arsenal for as long as they have been out. Never had a lick of trouble with them other than a WPA issue on the very first ones. It got fixed quickly in firmware. Have now been using Nano 5M for some short links as well. They seem to work well, giving great throughput, but we have had a couple that want to lock up. Haven’t put the watchdog on yet. I think the issue is likely with WPA- seems like that has been an issue with several manufacturers who use that chipset. I think the UBNT forum has some threads on that. We try to keep them on the latest firmware (and sometimes on the beta ). We have a PowerStation 5 link with 2 2’ dishes going 20+ miles and it just hasn’t missed a beat. Recently lightning took out all the Tranzeo and Deliberant on the tower and only 2 things kept on ticking: The Canopy AP and the PowerStation 5. A lot of our old Deliberant and Tranzeo gear is getting eaten by lightning and some of the Deliberant boxes (the gray ones) are beginning to leak and corrode inside, so we are switching to UBNT as that happens. We have a long Rocket 5M link up with 2’ dishes and it works pretty well so far. Because of the 20 mile distance, we need to increase dish size though. Signal isn’t good enough to use Airmax. Just put up a tower cluster of 3 Rocket 2 radios/sectors replacing some Deliberant 2700s. So far so good, but don’t have enough users on it yet to tell about any issues with the sector patterns. We have never used a piece of uncertified gear! I value my license (Amateur one) too much to get involved with illegal activities and the FCC. They tend to go harshly on Licensees for violations even in other services. The Latvians make great routers (we use them almost exclusively) but I wouldn’t touch their wireless with a 10 foot pole. There is plenty of reasonably priced great gear out there whose manufacturers do go the extra distance to get certified. Just my .02 from a good old Southern boy. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP H.which models .? What version of firmware. ? We have been using the M gear...and have not seen any lockups Fwiw...the also have watchdog built in for reboots... Faisal On Aug 8, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: We have been trying to use UBNT Nanos for quite a while in trailer parks and other ¼ to ½ mile LoS links. The issues we are finding is that the dang things just stop. The first time we have to do a truck roll to reset the unit, or replace it, it would be cheaper to buy a MT solution. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com - Author of http://www.routerosbook.com/ Learn RouterOS From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP You might have something philosophical there Bob. Do we choose equipment that is like us - lots of trouble and need plenty of attention? LOL! On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: But they are awesomely reliable and require no maintenance. Where is the fun in all of that? I desire a product that demands constant attention. -Albert -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 11:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP Mikrotik :) -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 9:09 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP Does anyone have certified gear other than Motorola and Redline? -- - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless
Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
Use a mix of what you need. UBNT for the quick and dirty, Canopy for the difficult links. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 7:09 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts UBNT is giving me headaches, I have canopy and I am loosing sleep at night because of the price of this UBNT gear and wondering if I should start deploying it or not. There is canopy gear out there that is 5 years old and still in service. Does anyone think that the UBNT gear will last this long or will it be like the 802.11b stuff in a couple years where you were basically throwing it all in the trash? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 11:39 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Hi Faisal and the list We have also been using UBNT quite a bit lately over the last couple of years. Im anxious to try some of the 900 and 3.65 when the time is right. Nano 2 and Nano 5 have been in our arsenal for as long as they have been out. Never had a lick of trouble with them other than a WPA issue on the very first ones. It got fixed quickly in firmware. Have now been using Nano 5M for some short links as well. They seem to work well, giving great throughput, but we have had a couple that want to lock up. Havent put the watchdog on yet. I think the issue is likely with WPA- seems like that has been an issue with several manufacturers who use that chipset. I think the UBNT forum has some threads on that. We try to keep them on the latest firmware (and sometimes on the beta ). We have a PowerStation 5 link with 2 2 dishes going 20+ miles and it just hasnt missed a beat. Recently lightning took out all the Tranzeo and Deliberant on the tower and only 2 things kept on ticking: The Canopy AP and the PowerStation 5. A lot of our old Deliberant and Tranzeo gear is getting eaten by lightning and some of the Deliberant boxes (the gray ones) are beginning to leak and corrode inside, so we are switching to UBNT as that happens. We have a long Rocket 5M link up with 2 dishes and it works pretty well so far. Because of the 20 mile distance, we need to increase dish size though. Signal isnt good enough to use Airmax. Just put up a tower cluster of 3 Rocket 2 radios/sectors replacing some Deliberant 2700s. So far so good, but dont have enough users on it yet to tell about any issues with the sector patterns. We have never used a piece of uncertified gear! I value my license (Amateur one) too much to get involved with illegal activities and the FCC. They tend to go harshly on Licensees for violations even in other services. The Latvians make great routers (we use them almost exclusively) but I wouldnt touch their wireless with a 10 foot pole. There is plenty of reasonably priced great gear out there whose manufacturers do go the extra distance to get certified. Just my .02 from a good old Southern boy. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP H.which models .? What version of firmware. ? We have been using the M gear...and have not seen any lockups Fwiw...the also have watchdog built in for reboots... Faisal On Aug 8, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: We have been trying to use UBNT Nanos for quite a while in trailer parks and other ¼ to ½ mile LoS links. The issues we are finding is that the dang things just stop. The first time we have to do a truck roll to reset the unit, or replace it, it would be cheaper to buy a MT solution. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com - Author of http://www.routerosbook.com/ Learn RouterOS From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:34 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP You might have something philosophical there Bob. Do we choose equipment that is like us - lots of trouble and need plenty of attention? LOL! On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: But they are awesomely reliable and require no maintenance. Where is the fun in all of that? I desire a product that demands constant attention. -Albert -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess Sent
Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
Synch would be orgasmic. Then UBNT will take over the WORLD! From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:26 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Dunno, but since UBNT now has Chuck from Motorola on board (and Motorola does not), I would not be surprised to see some interesting things down the road. Perhaps some sort of synch. If that were added, UBNT would seriously have a product that could come close to the things we like about Canopy. I do run UBNT, but also run/have run/have deployed lots of Canopy and I do see the advantages (no pun intended). You are right about throwing stuff in the trash. Im glad UBNT used Motos idea of the plastic case with the slip on cover. If water *were* to get in, it would easily drain out. On the Nanos (or the Canopys), I have never seen a water issue, so I think that was a good thing to copy. The Deliberant boxes had fancy gaskets (that stretched out and then fell out of the groove) and blots holding the hinged door closed. But I think the water intrusion happened at the bulkhead N connectors on the connectorized ones. They never seemed to tighten successfully and that was where the corrosion was a lot of the time. W4KIP, a great Ham mentor and inventor, taught me many years ago that it was nearly impossible to really waterproof something like that unless you were spending a LOT of money. It was better to just make a way for moisture to drain. Ralph From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 7:09 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts UBNT is giving me headaches, I have canopy and I am loosing sleep at night because of the price of this UBNT gear and wondering if I should start deploying it or not. There is canopy gear out there that is 5 years old and still in service. Does anyone think that the UBNT gear will last this long or will it be like the 802.11b stuff in a couple years where you were basically throwing it all in the trash? Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 _ From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 11:39 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Hi Faisal and the list We have also been using UBNT quite a bit lately over the last couple of years. Im anxious to try some of the 900 and 3.65 when the time is right. Nano 2 and Nano 5 have been in our arsenal for as long as they have been out. Never had a lick of trouble with them other than a WPA issue on the very first ones. It got fixed quickly in firmware. Have now been using Nano 5M for some short links as well. They seem to work well, giving great throughput, but we have had a couple that want to lock up. Havent put the watchdog on yet. I think the issue is likely with WPA- seems like that has been an issue with several manufacturers who use that chipset. I think the UBNT forum has some threads on that. We try to keep them on the latest firmware (and sometimes on the beta ). We have a PowerStation 5 link with 2 2 dishes going 20+ miles and it just hasnt missed a beat. Recently lightning took out all the Tranzeo and Deliberant on the tower and only 2 things kept on ticking: The Canopy AP and the PowerStation 5. A lot of our old Deliberant and Tranzeo gear is getting eaten by lightning and some of the Deliberant boxes (the gray ones) are beginning to leak and corrode inside, so we are switching to UBNT as that happens. We have a long Rocket 5M link up with 2 dishes and it works pretty well so far. Because of the 20 mile distance, we need to increase dish size though. Signal isnt good enough to use Airmax. Just put up a tower cluster of 3 Rocket 2 radios/sectors replacing some Deliberant 2700s. So far so good, but dont have enough users on it yet to tell about any issues with the sector patterns. We have never used a piece of uncertified gear! I value my license (Amateur one) too much to get involved with illegal activities and the FCC. They tend to go harshly on Licensees for violations even in other services. The Latvians make great routers (we use them almost exclusively) but I wouldnt touch their wireless with a 10 foot pole. There is plenty of reasonably priced great gear out there whose manufacturers do go the extra distance to get certified. Just my .02 from a good old Southern boy. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:23 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP H.which models .? What version of firmware. ? We have been using the M gear...and have not seen any lockups Fwiw...the also have watchdog built
Re: [WISPA] UBNT thoughts
BTW... as I have said earlier.. the UBNT is 95% baked...and work in progress.. Earlier in the day there was a post on the UBNT forum, claiming that a software bug has been identified which was causing the Ap Sm not to pass any dataand is expected to the fixed shortly.. I would suggest that you keep an eye out for that.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet Telecom On 8/9/2010 12:54 AM, Robert West wrote: Lockups with watchdog enabled also. Doesn’t help in my case. *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Ralph *Sent:* Sunday, August 08, 2010 11:39 AM *To:* 'WISPA General List' *Subject:* [WISPA] UBNT thoughts Hi Faisal and the list We have also been using UBNT quite a bit lately over the last couple of years. I’m anxious to try some of the 900 and 3.65 when the time is right. Nano 2 and Nano 5 have been in our arsenal for as long as they have been out. Never had a lick of trouble with them other than a WPA issue on the very first ones. It got fixed quickly in firmware. Have now been using Nano 5M for some short links as well. They seem to work well, giving great throughput, but we have had a couple that want to lock up. Haven’t put the watchdog on yet. I think the issue is likely with WPA- seems like that has been an issue with several manufacturers who use that chipset. I think the UBNT forum has some threads on that. We try to keep them on the latest firmware (and sometimes on the beta ). We have a PowerStation 5 link with 2 2’ dishes going 20+ miles and it just hasn’t missed a beat. Recently lightning took out all the Tranzeo and Deliberant on the tower and only 2 things kept on ticking: The Canopy AP and the PowerStation 5. A lot of our old Deliberant and Tranzeo gear is getting eaten by lightning and some of the Deliberant boxes (the gray ones) are beginning to leak and corrode inside, so we are switching to UBNT as that happens. We have a long Rocket 5M link up with 2’ dishes and it works pretty well so far. Because of the 20 mile distance, we need to increase dish size though. Signal isn’t good enough to use Airmax. Just put up a tower cluster of 3 Rocket 2 radios/sectors replacing some Deliberant 2700s. So far so good, but don’t have enough users on it yet to tell about any issues with the sector patterns. We have never used a piece of uncertified gear! I value my license (Amateur one) too much to get involved with illegal activities and the FCC. They tend to go harshly on Licensees for violations even in other services. The Latvians make great routers (we use them almost exclusively) but I wouldn’t touch their wireless with a 10 foot pole. There is plenty of reasonably priced great gear out there whose manufacturers do go the extra distance to get certified. Just my .02 from a good old Southern boy. *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *Faisal Imtiaz *Sent:* Sunday, August 08, 2010 10:23 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP H.which models .? What version of firmware. ? We have been using the M gear...and have not seen any lockups Fwiw...the also have watchdog built in for reboots... Faisal On Aug 8, 2010, at 7:38 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: We have been trying to use UBNT Nanos for quite a while in trailer parks and other ¼ to ½ mile LoS links. The issues we are finding is that the dang things just stop. The first time we have to do a truck roll to reset the unit, or replace it, it would be cheaper to buy a MT solution. *--- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer **Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training http://www.onlinemikrotiktraining.com - Author of Learn RouterOS http://www.routerosbook.com/ /* *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On Behalf Of *RickG *Sent:* Sunday, August 08, 2010 12:34 AM *To:* WISPA General List *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] 5.4 GHz PtP You might have something philosophical there Bob. Do we choose equipment that is like us - lots of trouble and need plenty of attention? LOL! On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com mailto:robert.w...@just-micro.com wrote: But they are awesomely reliable and require no maintenance. Where is the fun in all of that? I desire a product that demands constant attention. -Albert -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Dennis
