Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon
Actually I did not speak out of turn. I stand by my original post in all details unless you have alternate information. I am not trying to start an argument here but I think I spoke 100% the truth in my last post. I welcome proof to the contrary but I did not use speculation in my post. I stand firm in my belief that WISPA is the only recognized non-profit organization of any 501c(x) designation in the WISP industry. I agree with your other observations about the importance of being run by WISPs but I do not believe we should be taking away any importance in the governance aspect of WISPA being established as a 501c6. Being classified a 501c6 has more to do with fair governance of the organization than it does a tax break. Read the CFRs and check out the background of other organizations before you counter a post from me as being false please. I was speaking what I believe to be 100% the truth and I did it with as much objectivity and neutral bias as I possibly could. Scriv Tom DeReggi wrote: I don't know that the for-profit claims are accurate. WISPCON is a For-Profit. Last I understood, Part-15 was also a Non-Profit. The difference is that Part-15 is an organization where control is maintained by an individual, the owner, Michael Anderson (and spouse?). Appropriate, since he is the founder, primary contributor, and investor. That does not make it a for-Profit organization. WISPA on the other hand is supposed to be at least in spirit, an organization for WISPs controlled by WISPs. How realistic that is, is not yet proven, but the ideal is there. So lets not forget this is not about Profit or Not, its about control and/or guaranteeing direction and representation. Wether or not, Part-15 funnels business to WISPCON and vice versa, or that one intity owns both, is irrelevent. Just as it is irrlevent that WISPA may funnel business or offer support to WISPNOG or ISPCON, or vice versa. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:09 PM Subject: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon There is not a show discount relationship between WISPA and WISPCON. WISPCON is not directly tied to WISPA in any way. I believe WISPCON has a discount program through Part-15 just as WISPA has with ISPCON and WiNOG at times in the past. There have been no discussions of offering these discounts for WISPCON but would consider it if an opportunity were made available to us. I believe you will continue to see options for the discounts for WISPA members through WiNOG and ISPCON shows in the future as long as the ownership of these organizations see this as a valuable opportunity to help WISPA and themselves. It should be noted that of all organizations mentioned above that WISPA is the only one that is federally recognized under CFR # 501c6 as a non-profit trade association.. Every other entity listed above is working to make a profit in their efforts and as such would likely be looking to advance individual interests over those of the industry as a whole. WISPA is designed to promote the efforts of WISP operators over and above all other interests. As a matter of law we cannot act to allow one WISP to be given more consideration from the efforts of this organization than another. This means it is truly level ground for our efforts going forward. This does not mean I think that a for-profit company cannot help the efforts of the industry. This is far from true. I am simply explaining the different philosophies and how one could benefit more than another in certain situations. We are firm believers that WISPA is the organization that most fairly represents the interests of WISPs regarding policy issues. Other interests will develop where our industry can share our collective efforts as we did in the Katrina/Rita effort. WISPA will always look for different organizations that can help us forward our efforts of better policy to help us in our industry. Sometimes the other entities will be for-profit and sometimes not. WISPA has decided at this time to not create another show to the mix of what many would say is an over-crowded industry segment. We do allow the promotion and advertisement of shows when a show owner works with us to provide an opportunity. This could include a scenario where WISPA can make money and further our efforts through exposure at show events by speaking and or exhibiting.. This may be more information than you were looking for but I wanted to make sure everyone understood the dynamics and position of WISPA in relation to shows around the industry. I hope that helped. Scriv Jory Privett wrote: WISPA - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday,
Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005, Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote: or dislike one or the other fine. There are more important things to talk about on this list though. Does this mean I should hold my toungue (fingers, as it were) regarding Part 15? :-) -- Butch Evans BPS Networks http://www.bpsnetworks.com/ Bernie, MO Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon
Last I understood, Part-15 was also a Non-Profit. That's the sham Although .org domain names are traditionally reserved for non-profit institutions, there is nothing within ICANN policy preventing a for-profit organization from registering a .org domain A quick who-is of Part-15.org WISPCON.info outputs the following: Registrant: Prime Directive Corp. P.O. Box 157 North Aurora, IL 60542 US Domain Name: PART-15.ORG Administrative Contact : Prime Directive Corp [EMAIL PROTECTED] PO BOX 157 NORTH AURORA, IL 60542-0157 US Phone: 630-906-0323 Fax: 630-906-0323 Registrant: Prime Directive Corp. P.O. Box 157 North Aurora, IL 60542 US Domain Name: WISPCON.INFO Administrative Contact : Prime Directive Corp [EMAIL PROTECTED] PO BOX 157 NORTH AURORA, IL 60542-0157 US Phone: 630-906-0323 Fax: 630-906-0323 A lookup in the State of Illinois Corporation/LLC Database shows Prime Directive, Inc as a FOR-PROFIT CORPORATION with Michael Anderson (Bullit) as the President http://cdsprod.ilsos.net/CorpSearchWeb/CorporationSearchServlet?fileNumber=5 9278304sysId=CDnameType=MST While there's nothing wrong with running a for-profit industry association / show (ISPCON, Shorecliff's Broadband Wireless World, Jupiter Media, etc), I have an ethical issue when the for-profit group tries to generate goodwill by marketing itself as a not-for-profit trade group when it's express purpose is to maximize shareholder (in this case Michael Anderson) profits. So, in comparing Part-15 vs. WISPA, it is worth noting that Part-15 is an opportunistic for-profit entity focused on capitalizing market share in the WISP industry (can you fault them? I mean, all of us are for-profits), and WISPA is a LEGITIMATE NOT-FOR-PROFIT focused on representing the WISP industry as a whole With that in mind, you should be able to make an intelligent informed decision on who/where to give your money to -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon
snip It should be noted that of all organizations mentioned above that WISPA is the only one that is federally recognized under CFR # 501c6 as a non-profit trade association.. Every other entity listed above is working to make a profit in their efforts and as such would likely be looking to advance individual interests over those of the industry as a whole. WISPA is designed to promote the efforts of WISP operators over and above all other interests. As a matter of law we cannot act to allow one WISP to be given more consideration from the efforts of this organization than another. This means it is truly level ground for our efforts going forward. /snip As one of the abovementioned for-profit entities, it is worth noting that there is nothing wrong w/ trying to make an honest buck ducking That said, all the other industires (cellular, cable, telco) have their own represented NOT-FOR-PROFIT association that pushes their interests in DC, if you (as a WISP), don't bother to spend the time/money/energy supporting WISPA, then don't complain if legislation leaves you in the dust -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 4:10 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon There is not a show discount relationship between WISPA and WISPCON. WISPCON is not directly tied to WISPA in any way. I believe WISPCON has a discount program through Part-15 just as WISPA has with ISPCON and WiNOG at times in the past. There have been no discussions of offering these discounts for WISPCON but would consider it if an opportunity were made available to us. I believe you will continue to see options for the discounts for WISPA members through WiNOG and ISPCON shows in the future as long as the ownership of these organizations see this as a valuable opportunity to help WISPA and themselves. This does not mean I think that a for-profit company cannot help the efforts of the industry. This is far from true. I am simply explaining the different philosophies and how one could benefit more than another in certain situations. We are firm believers that WISPA is the organization that most fairly represents the interests of WISPs regarding policy issues. Other interests will develop where our industry can share our collective efforts as we did in the Katrina/Rita effort. WISPA will always look for different organizations that can help us forward our efforts of better policy to help us in our industry. Sometimes the other entities will be for-profit and sometimes not. WISPA has decided at this time to not create another show to the mix of what many would say is an over-crowded industry segment. We do allow the promotion and advertisement of shows when a show owner works with us to provide an opportunity. This could include a scenario where WISPA can make money and further our efforts through exposure at show events by speaking and or exhibiting.. This may be more information than you were looking for but I wanted to make sure everyone understood the dynamics and position of WISPA in relation to shows around the industry. I hope that helped. Scriv Jory Privett wrote: WISPA - Original Message - From: Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 10:57 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPCon As a paid member of p15 or wispa? Marlon (509) 982-2181 Equipment sales (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services 42846865 (icq)And I run my own wisp! 64.146.146.12 (net meeting) www.odessaoffice.com/wireless www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam - Original Message - From: Jory Privett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 8:18 AM Subject: [WISPA] WISPCon As a WISP paid member does anyone know where I can get discount passes to WispCon in Dallas October 9-11? Jory Privett WCCS -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon
John, do not believe we should be taking away any importance in the governance aspect of WISPA being established as a 501c6. I fully agree, it is excellent that WISPA had the dicipline to follow through with the process. It valididates the organization. Its just that that arguement couldn't be used the first full year WISPA was in existence, so I don't like to hold that formality over Michael's head, like Part-15 is just a get rich quick sceam. But you made your point, and I do not contest/challenge it. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 6:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon Actually I did not speak out of turn. I stand by my original post in all details unless you have alternate information. I am not trying to start an argument here but I think I spoke 100% the truth in my last post. I welcome proof to the contrary but I did not use speculation in my post. I stand firm in my belief that WISPA is the only recognized non-profit organization of any 501c(x) designation in the WISP industry. I agree with your other observations about the importance of being run by WISPs but I do not believe we should be taking away any importance in the governance aspect of WISPA being established as a 501c6. Being classified a 501c6 has more to do with fair governance of the organization than it does a tax break. Read the CFRs and check out the background of other organizations before you counter a post from me as being false please. I was speaking what I believe to be 100% the truth and I did it with as much objectivity and neutral bias as I possibly could. Scriv Tom DeReggi wrote: I don't know that the for-profit claims are accurate. WISPCON is a For-Profit. Last I understood, Part-15 was also a Non-Profit. The difference is that Part-15 is an organization where control is maintained by an individual, the owner, Michael Anderson (and spouse?). Appropriate, since he is the founder, primary contributor, and investor. That does not make it a for-Profit organization. WISPA on the other hand is supposed to be at least in spirit, an organization for WISPs controlled by WISPs. How realistic that is, is not yet proven, but the ideal is there. So lets not forget this is not about Profit or Not, its about control and/or guaranteeing direction and representation. Wether or not, Part-15 funnels business to WISPCON and vice versa, or that one intity owns both, is irrelevent. Just as it is irrlevent that WISPA may funnel business or offer support to WISPNOG or ISPCON, or vice versa. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: John Scrivner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 5:09 PM Subject: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon There is not a show discount relationship between WISPA and WISPCON. WISPCON is not directly tied to WISPA in any way. I believe WISPCON has a discount program through Part-15 just as WISPA has with ISPCON and WiNOG at times in the past. There have been no discussions of offering these discounts for WISPCON but would consider it if an opportunity were made available to us. I believe you will continue to see options for the discounts for WISPA members through WiNOG and ISPCON shows in the future as long as the ownership of these organizations see this as a valuable opportunity to help WISPA and themselves. It should be noted that of all organizations mentioned above that WISPA is the only one that is federally recognized under CFR # 501c6 as a non-profit trade association.. Every other entity listed above is working to make a profit in their efforts and as such would likely be looking to advance individual interests over those of the industry as a whole. WISPA is designed to promote the efforts of WISP operators over and above all other interests. As a matter of law we cannot act to allow one WISP to be given more consideration from the efforts of this organization than another. This means it is truly level ground for our efforts going forward. This does not mean I think that a for-profit company cannot help the efforts of the industry. This is far from true. I am simply explaining the different philosophies and how one could benefit more than another in certain situations. We are firm believers that WISPA is the organization that most fairly represents the interests of WISPs regarding policy issues. Other interests will develop where our industry can share our collective efforts as we did in the Katrina/Rita effort. WISPA will always look for different organizations that can help us forward our efforts of better policy to help us in our industry. Sometimes the other entities
Re: [WISPA] WISPA Show Interests was: WISPCon
Charles Wu wrote: snip All I really meant is WISPA is a GROUP for WISPS operated by WISPs. I'm a strong supporter and member of WISPA. Part-15 is a group for WISPs by an individual. I'm not sure what doesn't make sense about that, thats the way I see it. Nothing wrong with either model, just different. /snip Democracy vs. Dictatorship? Nice correlation :-) Remember, absolute power corrupts... Absolutely -Charles --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
