Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Actually, I disagree with Marlon on this one. The higher the gain on the antenna, the narrower the beamwidth. Therefore, many times your main lobe is shooting over the top of your clients. We have had better success with lower gain omni's because the beamwidth is wider and more usable signal reaches the client radios. I guess Marlon is correct if he means that the main lobe is shooting above (up) the clients, if that is what he meant, then he is correct. Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
That is what he is saying. Avoid the high gain 15dB omnis unless you know what you do and design system right. There are cases where a high gain omni is well suited but more then likely a 12dB omni would work as well if not better. You want to make sure your signal goes where your clients are not send the main portion above them where it does no good. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Rick Harnish rharn...@wispa.org Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:47:51 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Actually, I disagree with Marlon on this one. The higher the gain on the antenna, the narrower the beamwidth. Therefore, many times your main lobe is shooting over the top of your clients. We have had better success with lower gain omni's because the beamwidth is wider and more usable signal reaches the client radios. I guess Marlon is correct if he means that the main lobe is shooting above (up) the clients, if that is what he meant, then he is correct. Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers I think you and I are in total agreement Rick! marlon - Original Message - From: Rick Harnish rharn...@wispa.org To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:47 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Actually, I disagree with Marlon on this one. The higher the gain on the antenna, the narrower the beamwidth. Therefore, many times your main lobe is shooting over the top of your clients. We have had better success with lower gain omni's because the beamwidth is wider and more usable signal reaches the client radios. I guess Marlon is correct if he means that the main lobe is shooting above (up) the clients, if that is what he meant, then he is correct. Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
The ONLY time I've suggested a high gain omni was in cases where the customers are at the same level as the antenna. Things like down town deployments from a building that's no taller than the ones around it. Or, sometimes inside a building where you need greater coverage on one floor. marlon - Original Message - From: e...@wisp-router.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 6:26 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue That is what he is saying. Avoid the high gain 15dB omnis unless you know what you do and design system right. There are cases where a high gain omni is well suited but more then likely a 12dB omni would work as well if not better. You want to make sure your signal goes where your clients are not send the main portion above them where it does no good. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Rick Harnish rharn...@wispa.org Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:47:51 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Actually, I disagree with Marlon on this one. The higher the gain on the antenna, the narrower the beamwidth. Therefore, many times your main lobe is shooting over the top of your clients. We have had better success with lower gain omni's because the beamwidth is wider and more usable signal reaches the client radios. I guess Marlon is correct if he means that the main lobe is shooting above (up) the clients, if that is what he meant, then he is correct. Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
You can look for omnis with downtilt built in as well if you must go with higher gain and must use an omni. -Original Message- From: e...@wisp-router.com Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 7:26 AM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue That is what he is saying. Avoid the high gain 15dB omnis unless you know what you do and design system right. There are cases where a high gain omni is well suited but more then likely a 12dB omni would work as well if not better. You want to make sure your signal goes where your clients are not send the main portion above them where it does no good. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Rick Harnish rharn...@wispa.org Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:47:51 To: 'WISPA General List'wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Actually, I disagree with Marlon on this one. The higher the gain on the antenna, the narrower the beamwidth. Therefore, many times your main lobe is shooting over the top of your clients. We have had better success with lower gain omni's because the beamwidth is wider and more usable signal reaches the client radios. I guess Marlon is correct if he means that the main lobe is shooting above (up) the clients, if that is what he meant, then he is correct. Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wirel [The entire original message is not included] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Eje, thanks for the lesson! -RickG On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:50 AM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Generally a omni send signal straight out and a high gain omni might only have 5 to 6 degree vertical beam width. So only 2.5 to 3 deg is aim down. A lower gain antenna will have wider beam width. But then you also have quality antennas with electronic downtilt on them so say a high gain antenna with 7deg beam (typical on a 12dB omni) you have 3 degree electronic downtil (also typical value) only 0.5 degrees of the signal is sent above horizon line. A 15dB omni might only have about 5 deg beam and if you have no electronic downtilt it becomes useless on taller structures. Unless your clients are only far out (depending on hight might have to be very far out). You can play with my down tilt calculator. http://www.wisp-router.com/calculators/downtilt.php You do not want to have customers closer then the inner -3dB radius and most of them should be close to the sweet spot and of course they should not be outside outer -3dB (with omni generally no risk unless your providing internet to aliens. ;) ) /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:23:55 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Ya, tried all channels 1-11. Whats interesting is that this site has run very well with both signals and throughput since 2004. Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:57 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Often good signal levels but rotten throughput. Or good signal to the customers and rotten at the ap. http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/survey.htm That's a good look at what interference can and does do to you if it's the wrong (right?) kind. I assume you've tried a different channel already? That's one of the first things I always do these days. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: e...@wisp-router.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Oh, I caught something on your website. Whats with channels 12-14? I never tired those. -RickG On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:57 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Often good signal levels but rotten throughput. Or good signal to the customers and rotten at the ap. http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/survey.htm That's a good look at what interference can and does do to you if it's the wrong (right?) kind. I assume you've tried a different channel already? That's one of the first things I always do these days. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: e...@wisp-router.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
I'll tell you how - money. How can a small guy buy or rent at those prices. Surely, in the days of electronics revolution there is something more economical? Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 1:05 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-2754-50kHz-21GHz-RF-Spectrum-Analyzer-Tested_W0QQitemZ390031649077QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Analyzers?hash=item390031649077_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-8593E-Spectrum-Analyzer-9kHz-22-GHz-Opts-4-41_W0QQitemZ370160713052QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item370160713052_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-492-50kHz-40GHz-Spectrum-Analyzer-NICE_W0QQitemZ290296909236QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Analyzers?hash=item290296909236_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 Oh heck, there are nearly 400 on ebay right now. I have both a Berkly Varitronics Yellow Jacket (over prices but easy to use and very portable) and an Advantest (ex Sprint Cellular unit) that'll do 9k through 8g. They don't get used very often, but when they do... I don't know how a guy can run without one these days. Oh yeah, you can always rent one from Rentelco. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue A spectrum analyzer is a good idea. I tried and wasnt impressed with wi-spy. Is there anything else inexpensive that will analyze the spectrum? Thanks! -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Phil Curnutt pcurn...@gmail.com wrote: It looks just like you described. Get a spectrum analyzer or a wi-spy and check it out. Chances are though you won't be there when it is happening. Phil On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Marlon, nice stuff. I agree with all that. My confusion comes from why I cant have a high gain antenna with the same pattern as a lower gain unit? Both should be able to be designed the same. -RickG On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Vertical radiation pattern. Read this for a better description: http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.htm Look closely at the very first antenna pattern. http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/15_omni.jpg See how much of the energy goes UP instead of down. And if you look closely you'll see that the main lobe goes up instead of straight out, or, more importantly, down toward the customers. I buy the 8 dB Maxrad omni antennas with electrical downtilt these days. Almost always 4* of downtilt, but sometimes I'll go as high as 12*. If you drop from a 15 dB to a 12 you'll DOUBLE your vertical coverage zone. Or very close to it. That 15 dB omni you have probably has a 2 to 5* vertical pattern. An 8 dB will have closer to 12 or 15 (I don't remember exact numbers off the top of my head). In a nutshell, gain comes only from the focusing of energy. You can only get that in two plains. Horizontal and vertical. Everyone looks at two numbers, horizontal (omni, 120*, 180*, 90* sector etc.) and gain (15dB, 12dB, 6dB, 24dB etc.). For the customer side the horizontal pattern doesn't mean much because you'll point the antenna straight at the tower's antenna anyway. At the tower though, you need to cover MUCH more area, both from side to side AND up and down. That help? marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
I took it he meant that as well. In further thought, I suppose the high gain omni is also picking up noise interference from further out as well. Many times, I can see several of my towers from anywhere in the county. Heck, I probably have self-interference! Buying a company is like buying a used car, you end up with somebody elses problems! So, what about sector arrays with downtilt? Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Rick Harnish rharn...@wispa.org wrote: Actually, I disagree with Marlon on this one. The higher the gain on the antenna, the narrower the beamwidth. Therefore, many times your main lobe is shooting over the top of your clients. We have had better success with lower gain omni's because the beamwidth is wider and more usable signal reaches the client radios. I guess Marlon is correct if he means that the main lobe is shooting above (up) the clients, if that is what he meant, then he is correct. Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Think spotlight vs. flood light. The only way to send the signal further is to focus the beam tighter. Call me if it's still confusing, marlon 509.988.0260 - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, nice stuff. I agree with all that. My confusion comes from why I cant have a high gain antenna with the same pattern as a lower gain unit? Both should be able to be designed the same. -RickG On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Vertical radiation pattern. Read this for a better description: http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.htm Look closely at the very first antenna pattern. http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/15_omni.jpg See how much of the energy goes UP instead of down. And if you look closely you'll see that the main lobe goes up instead of straight out, or, more importantly, down toward the customers. I buy the 8 dB Maxrad omni antennas with electrical downtilt these days. Almost always 4* of downtilt, but sometimes I'll go as high as 12*. If you drop from a 15 dB to a 12 you'll DOUBLE your vertical coverage zone. Or very close to it. That 15 dB omni you have probably has a 2 to 5* vertical pattern. An 8 dB will have closer to 12 or 15 (I don't remember exact numbers off the top of my head). In a nutshell, gain comes only from the focusing of energy. You can only get that in two plains. Horizontal and vertical. Everyone looks at two numbers, horizontal (omni, 120*, 180*, 90* sector etc.) and gain (15dB, 12dB, 6dB, 24dB etc.). For the customer side the horizontal pattern doesn't mean much because you'll point the antenna straight at the tower's antenna anyway. At the tower though, you need to cover MUCH more area, both from side to side AND up and down. That help? marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Speaking of self inflicted interference http://www.enterprisenetworkingplanet.com/nethub/article.php/3765946/Wi-Fi-Detect-and-Avoid-Self-Inflicted-Interference.htm Hope it helps! marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:38 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I took it he meant that as well. In further thought, I suppose the high gain omni is also picking up noise interference from further out as well. Many times, I can see several of my towers from anywhere in the county. Heck, I probably have self-interference! Buying a company is like buying a used car, you end up with somebody elses problems! So, what about sector arrays with downtilt? Thanks! -RickG On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Rick Harnish rharn...@wispa.org wrote: Actually, I disagree with Marlon on this one. The higher the gain on the antenna, the narrower the beamwidth. Therefore, many times your main lobe is shooting over the top of your clients. We have had better success with lower gain omni's because the beamwidth is wider and more usable signal reaches the client radios. I guess Marlon is correct if he means that the main lobe is shooting above (up) the clients, if that is what he meant, then he is correct. Rick -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:24 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Europe, not available in the USA. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:14 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Oh, I caught something on your website. Whats with channels 12-14? I never tired those. -RickG On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:57 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Often good signal levels but rotten throughput. Or good signal to the customers and rotten at the ap. http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/survey.htm That's a good look at what interference can and does do to you if it's the wrong (right?) kind. I assume you've tried a different channel already? That's one of the first things I always do these days. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: e...@wisp-router.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Channels 12 thru 14 are not allowed to be used in the US. They are available in some other countries. Scriv On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:14 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: Oh, I caught something on your website. Whats with channels 12-14? I never tired those. -RickG On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:57 AM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Often good signal levels but rotten throughput. Or good signal to the customers and rotten at the ap. http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/survey.htm That's a good look at what interference can and does do to you if it's the wrong (right?) kind. I assume you've tried a different channel already? That's one of the first things I always do these days. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: e...@wisp-router.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Rick, we have had a problem with a couple of StarOS APs where all the associations stop passing data. You reboot (maybe a couple times) and it comes back as normal. We originally thought it was a problem with the hardware, then we replaced all the hardware (the site had original WAR4 with SR9). Then after we replaced it with a WAR4-WP188 board brand new SR9, the problem was still happeneing. We haven't had the problem in a few weeks now after upgrading to the latest firmware (1.4.10b). Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
I have seen it occationally on this tower and others but this one is really bad. I'm planning on replacing the WRAP with a WAR or Mikrotik. Hopefully that helps. Thanks! -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: Rick, we have had a problem with a couple of StarOS APs where all the associations stop passing data. You reboot (maybe a couple times) and it comes back as normal. We originally thought it was a problem with the hardware, then we replaced all the hardware (the site had original WAR4 with SR9). Then after we replaced it with a WAR4-WP188 board brand new SR9, the problem was still happeneing. We haven't had the problem in a few weeks now after upgrading to the latest firmware (1.4.10b). Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
What I was trying to say is that it was the firmware that helped, not the hardware. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I have seen it occationally on this tower and others but this one is really bad. I'm planning on replacing the WRAP with a WAR or Mikrotik. Hopefully that helps. Thanks! -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: Rick, we have had a problem with a couple of StarOS APs where all the associations stop passing data. You reboot (maybe a couple times) and it comes back as normal. We originally thought it was a problem with the hardware, then we replaced all the hardware (the site had original WAR4 with SR9). Then after we replaced it with a WAR4-WP188 board brand new SR9, the problem was still happeneing. We haven't had the problem in a few weeks now after upgrading to the latest firmware (1.4.10b). Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
It looks just like you described. Get a spectrum analyzer or a wi-spy and check it out. Chances are though you won't be there when it is happening. Phil On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Ah, gotcha. Thanks! -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: What I was trying to say is that it was the firmware that helped, not the hardware. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I have seen it occationally on this tower and others but this one is really bad. I'm planning on replacing the WRAP with a WAR or Mikrotik. Hopefully that helps. Thanks! -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Mark Nash markl...@uwol.net wrote: Rick, we have had a problem with a couple of StarOS APs where all the associations stop passing data. You reboot (maybe a couple times) and it comes back as normal. We originally thought it was a problem with the hardware, then we replaced all the hardware (the site had original WAR4 with SR9). Then after we replaced it with a WAR4-WP188 board brand new SR9, the problem was still happeneing. We haven't had the problem in a few weeks now after upgrading to the latest firmware (1.4.10b). Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
A spectrum analyzer is a good idea. I tried and wasnt impressed with wi-spy. Is there anything else inexpensive that will analyze the spectrum? Thanks! -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Phil Curnutt pcurn...@gmail.com wrote: It looks just like you described. Get a spectrum analyzer or a wi-spy and check it out. Chances are though you won't be there when it is happening. Phil On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
As an aside and amazing enough, I've got a tower in the middle of town and I know the 2.4 noise floor is high but just cooks along with no problems. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Phil Curnutt pcurn...@gmail.com wrote: It looks just like you described. Get a spectrum analyzer or a wi-spy and check it out. Chances are though you won't be there when it is happening. Phil On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Not really. The WI-Spy is very good if you know how to use it. Just like any spectrum analyzer. But you need a connectorized model and to track down interference source you need directional antennas. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:26:39 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue A spectrum analyzer is a good idea. I tried and wasnt impressed with wi-spy. Is there anything else inexpensive that will analyze the spectrum? Thanks! -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Phil Curnutt pcurn...@gmail.com wrote: It looks just like you described. Get a spectrum analyzer or a wi-spy and check it out. Chances are though you won't be there when it is happening. Phil On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Generally a omni send signal straight out and a high gain omni might only have 5 to 6 degree vertical beam width. So only 2.5 to 3 deg is aim down. A lower gain antenna will have wider beam width. But then you also have quality antennas with electronic downtilt on them so say a high gain antenna with 7deg beam (typical on a 12dB omni) you have 3 degree electronic downtil (also typical value) only 0.5 degrees of the signal is sent above horizon line. A 15dB omni might only have about 5 deg beam and if you have no electronic downtilt it becomes useless on taller structures. Unless your clients are only far out (depending on hight might have to be very far out). You can play with my down tilt calculator. http://www.wisp-router.com/calculators/downtilt.php You do not want to have customers closer then the inner -3dB radius and most of them should be close to the sweet spot and of course they should not be outside outer -3dB (with omni generally no risk unless your providing internet to aliens. ;) ) /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 00:23:55 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Often good signal levels but rotten throughput. Or good signal to the customers and rotten at the ap. http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/survey.htm That's a good look at what interference can and does do to you if it's the wrong (right?) kind. I assume you've tried a different channel already? That's one of the first things I always do these days. marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: e...@wisp-router.com; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:12 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-2754-50kHz-21GHz-RF-Spectrum-Analyzer-Tested_W0QQitemZ390031649077QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Analyzers?hash=item390031649077_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 http://cgi.ebay.com/HP-8593E-Spectrum-Analyzer-9kHz-22-GHz-Opts-4-41_W0QQitemZ370160713052QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item370160713052_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 http://cgi.ebay.com/Tektronix-492-50kHz-40GHz-Spectrum-Analyzer-NICE_W0QQitemZ290296909236QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Analyzers?hash=item290296909236_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 Oh heck, there are nearly 400 on ebay right now. I have both a Berkly Varitronics Yellow Jacket (over prices but easy to use and very portable) and an Advantest (ex Sprint Cellular unit) that'll do 9k through 8g. They don't get used very often, but when they do... I don't know how a guy can run without one these days. Oh yeah, you can always rent one from Rentelco. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue A spectrum analyzer is a good idea. I tried and wasnt impressed with wi-spy. Is there anything else inexpensive that will analyze the spectrum? Thanks! -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:22 PM, Phil Curnutt pcurn...@gmail.com wrote: It looks just like you described. Get a spectrum analyzer or a wi-spy and check it out. Chances are though you won't be there when it is happening. Phil On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 9:12 PM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote: I agree but such a sudden change? I mean like day night. Interesting to contemplate though. What does interference look like if IT is affecting a tower? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 11:08 PM, e...@wisp-router.com wrote: Never assume a problem is ever interference no matter how rural you are. This is one of the biggest problem I see people are doing. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2009 23:04:44 To: WISPA General Listwireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue I agree with you and actually intend on replacing it. But, I doubt it's related since this setup has been running on this particular tower since 2004 (I bought the company this way). Also, it is set up on several others with no issues. I failed to mention these towers are in very rural locations so I doubt there is any interference. -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com wrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe
Re: [WISPA] tower issue
Vertical radiation pattern. Read this for a better description: http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/how_to_pick_the_right_antenna.htm Look closely at the very first antenna pattern. http://www.odessaoffice.com/wireless/antenna/15_omni.jpg See how much of the energy goes UP instead of down. And if you look closely you'll see that the main lobe goes up instead of straight out, or, more importantly, down toward the customers. I buy the 8 dB Maxrad omni antennas with electrical downtilt these days. Almost always 4* of downtilt, but sometimes I'll go as high as 12*. If you drop from a 15 dB to a 12 you'll DOUBLE your vertical coverage zone. Or very close to it. That 15 dB omni you have probably has a 2 to 5* vertical pattern. An 8 dB will have closer to 12 or 15 (I don't remember exact numbers off the top of my head). In a nutshell, gain comes only from the focusing of energy. You can only get that in two plains. Horizontal and vertical. Everyone looks at two numbers, horizontal (omni, 120*, 180*, 90* sector etc.) and gain (15dB, 12dB, 6dB, 24dB etc.). For the customer side the horizontal pattern doesn't mean much because you'll point the antenna straight at the tower's antenna anyway. At the tower though, you need to cover MUCH more area, both from side to side AND up and down. That help? marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] tower issue Marlon, I was thinking about what you said about high gain omni antennas sending more signal UP. With respect to direction, what's the difference between between a high gain unit and a lower gain unit? -RickG On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.comwrote: Not sure if it's related or not, but high gain omni antennas are usually a great big no no. They tend to send more signal UP than in the direction of the customers. I'd replace it with an 8 or 9 db unit just on principal. You'll probably find that most customers will actually get a BETTER signal. laters, marlon - Original Message - From: RickG rgunder...@gmail.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: [WISPA] tower issue OK, here a good one! (aka, how I spent my weekend in a blizzard!) One of my towers has a single WARP/StarOS connected to a 5GHz grid for backhaul and a 15dBi omni for the local connections. On Saturday, after making some small changes, I rebooted it and it would not allow me to connect via wireless any longer - or my customers :( So, I go to the tower, connect up via ethernet and everything is a usual but I see all associations but only a few client have ip addresses. I can ping the few clients but the packet loss is huge 80-90%. I then reload my backup but still get the same thing. I try changing channels, but still the same. I then systematically begin replacing parts starting with the radio card. Eventually, I replaced EVERYTHING but still have the problem. One note: occasionally, twice of maybe three times, after a reboot, all came back normal. The third time, I left well enough alone for now but of course, you know what will happen the next time I reboot. Any ideas??? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
