Re: [WISPA] NTIA Mapping
Title: signature Haven't seen any documents from NTIA or anyone else. Martha Huizenga DC Access, LLC 202-546-5898 Friendly, Local, Affordable, Internet! Connecting the Capitol Hill Community Join us on or follow us on On 2/24/2011 5:06 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: We received a document that says the minimum upload for Terrestrial Fixed Wireless is 768k. Anyone else seeing this? Regards, Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] NTIA Mapping
We received a document that says the minimum upload for Terrestrial Fixed Wireless is 768k. Anyone else seeing this? Regards, Chuck WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Here are some web sites to check out: Connected Nation Projects: http://www.connectky.com/ http://connectohio.org/ http://www.connectmn.org/mapping/ http://www.connectedtn.org/broadband_landscape/ http://connectwestvirginia.org/mapping_and_research/state_maps.php http://www.publicknowledge.org/ - This group has been very critical of Connected Nation and there have been exchanges between the parties on other wed sites. Connected Nation's responses are interesting reading. Couple that with the membership of Connected Nation's Board of Directors and you can draw your own conclusions. Enter Connected Nation in the search bar to bring up many articles. http://benton.org/node/15506#comment-28 - Here are comments by Connected Nation in rebuttal to PublicKnowledge.org. While it seems these two groups are in a pretty good fight against each other, I tend to read through the emotions and look directly at the facts. Connected Nation's response still will not explore mapping options so that they can release the data. They just defend their position that the data must be kept under NDA. http://www.connectednation.org/who_we_are/national_advisors/ This the list of the companies who make up Connected Nation's Board of Directors. My fear is that of the money set aside for broadband mapping, politics will get in the way and Connected Nation will get much if not all of the funds based on their political connections. Connected Nation has a lot of momentum inside the beltway. I have personally developed methods to where broadband mapping can be done on a Nationwide Basis using data that does not require any NDA. I need to spend some time to verify the process so that it would survive scientific scrutiny. All of the data is based on information already in the public domain. Connected Nation could have done this same work. I don't think they want to. With the think tank of people and skills they have at their disposal, I find it hard to believe I am the only one who could have figured out how to do this.. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
I've looked at the maps of Ohio that Connect Ohio has put out and they are at the very least grossly optimistic. Just looking at them at first you would say that 99.5% of the state has access to broadband from more than one provider. In my county it's the same way. The map shows that most of the area is served by broadband but when you start asking around most people can't get DSL or even some fixed wireless is unavailable due to large amounts of trees. Actually the map is right if they are factoring in that everyone has a 80 foot tower at their house to receive wireless broadband with... Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Brian Webster Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2009 9:05 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Here are some web sites to check out: Connected Nation Projects: http://www.connectky.com/ http://connectohio.org/ http://www.connectmn.org/mapping/ http://www.connectedtn.org/broadband_landscape/ http://connectwestvirginia.org/mapping_and_research/state_maps.php http://www.publicknowledge.org/ - This group has been very critical of Connected Nation and there have been exchanges between the parties on other wed sites. Connected Nation's responses are interesting reading. Couple that with the membership of Connected Nation's Board of Directors and you can draw your own conclusions. Enter Connected Nation in the search bar to bring up many articles. http://benton.org/node/15506#comment-28 - Here are comments by Connected Nation in rebuttal to PublicKnowledge.org. While it seems these two groups are in a pretty good fight against each other, I tend to read through the emotions and look directly at the facts. Connected Nation's response still will not explore mapping options so that they can release the data. They just defend their position that the data must be kept under NDA. http://www.connectednation.org/who_we_are/national_advisors/ This the list of the companies who make up Connected Nation's Board of Directors. My fear is that of the money set aside for broadband mapping, politics will get in the way and Connected Nation will get much if not all of the funds based on their political connections. Connected Nation has a lot of momentum inside the beltway. I have personally developed methods to where broadband mapping can be done on a Nationwide Basis using data that does not require any NDA. I need to spend some time to verify the process so that it would survive scientific scrutiny. All of the data is based on information already in the public domain. Connected Nation could have done this same work. I don't think they want to. With the think tank of people and skills they have at their disposal, I find it hard to believe I am the only one who could have figured out how to do this.. Thank You, Brian Webster WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Brian Webster wrote: Amen Rick I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea. Um. what? Where do you see in the law where the data won't be available? What page and section? If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on. Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do it to convince the organizations that are handing out money. Go compete for the (sub)contract then, instead of whining on the mailing list. This sort of baseless posturing is pathetic and does your company a disservice. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Chris, It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for Connected Nation. In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state. This is approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with Ohio or Tennessee. The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the awardees and 80% coming from the Federal Government. If this assumption is correct, it didn't take Connected Nation long to come up with a number to present to the legislators that sponsored the bill. I'm not saying that this funding won't be allocated to other grantees but I have been told that it will be extremely difficult to buck this legislation given the current political clout that Connected Nation seems to have. That is not to say that the states themselves will get control of the funding and will make those decisions separately. Respectfully, Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP. Will this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to map their expanded networks? Will it be available to all wisps to map their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB map? Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2082 - Release Date: 04/27/09 06:19:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
- Original Message - From: Rick Harnish rharn...@wispa.org To: ccoo...@intelliwave.com; 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Chris, It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for Connected Nation. In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state. This is approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with Ohio or Tennessee. The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the awardees and 80% coming from the Federal Government. If this assumption is correct, it didn't take Connected Nation long to come up with a number to present to the legislators that sponsored the bill. I'm not saying that this funding won't be allocated to other grantees but I have been told that it will be extremely difficult to buck this legislation given the current political clout that Connected Nation seems to have. That is not to say that the states themselves will get control of the funding and will make those decisions separately. Respectfully, Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP. Will this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to map their expanded networks? Will it be available to all wisps to map their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB map? Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2082 - Release Date: 04/27/09 06:19:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Brian, Thats where I disagree. I'm surprised to hear it come from you. Quick Note: Just two years ago, CN was nobody. They have gotten clout because they got off their hind side and started working on a solution to the problem. But CN has had lots of critisim, they are not invincible. What you should be doing is writting your ticket to financial freedom, by preparing plans for WISPs. Grant awardees can't write checks to themselves, but they can write checks to their solution providers and contractors necessary to fullfil their obligations of and goals for their grants. Brian, many WISPs like your work and see the value, but aren't paying you now for services because they simply don't have the budget for it. The grant program is an opportunity to get in in the budget. If mapping isn't included in their grant apps, it won't likely be in their budget after their award either. It might be hard to get a seperate grant for mapping. But its real easy to add a line item to an existing application. If I were you, I'd be putting togeather the deluxe package for WISPs to include in their applications, and it doesn't have to be cheaper. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Amen Rick I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea. If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on. Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do it to convince the organizations that are handing out money. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:23 PM To: ccoo...@intelliwave.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Chris, It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for Connected Nation. In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state. This is approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with Ohio or Tennessee. The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the awardees and 80% coming from the Federal Government. If this assumption is correct, it didn't take Connected Nation long to come up with a number to present to the legislators that sponsored the bill. I'm not saying that this funding won't be allocated to other grantees but I have been told that it will be extremely difficult to buck this legislation given the current political clout that Connected Nation seems to have. That is not to say that the states themselves will get control of the funding and will make those decisions separately. Respectfully, Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP. Will this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to map their expanded networks? Will it be available to all wisps to map their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB map? Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2082 - Release Date: 04/27/09 06:19:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
I'd like to echo my own previous statements that I believe a lot of the mapping efforts will be run through the states. Here in AL, there's been a mapping program underway and we're expecting to see preliminary maps by the end of next month. The best thing that you as a WISP can do, apart from submitting a grant of your own, is to make regular contact (to the extent that it doesn't become annoying) with the officials on your state's broadband task force/authority/whatever. If you're on their good side and know that you have the capability to do some of the mapping work, you'll be the one they look to when they go after the money. InLine vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist InLine Connections Solutions Through Technology 600 Lakeshore Pkwy Birmingham AL, 35209 205-278-8106 [p] 205-941-1934[f] vedwa...@inline.com www.InLine.com All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and any attached files may contain confidential information and are intended solely for the message recipient. If you are not the message recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 3:02 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Brian, Thats where I disagree. I'm surprised to hear it come from you. Quick Note: Just two years ago, CN was nobody. They have gotten clout because they got off their hind side and started working on a solution to the problem. But CN has had lots of critisim, they are not invincible. What you should be doing is writting your ticket to financial freedom, by preparing plans for WISPs. Grant awardees can't write checks to themselves, but they can write checks to their solution providers and contractors necessary to fullfil their obligations of and goals for their grants. Brian, many WISPs like your work and see the value, but aren't paying you now for services because they simply don't have the budget for it. The grant program is an opportunity to get in in the budget. If mapping isn't included in their grant apps, it won't likely be in their budget after their award either. It might be hard to get a seperate grant for mapping. But its real easy to add a line item to an existing application. If I were you, I'd be putting togeather the deluxe package for WISPs to include in their applications, and it doesn't have to be cheaper. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Amen Rick I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea. If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on. Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do it to convince the organizations that are handing out money. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:23 PM To: ccoo...@intelliwave.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Chris, It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for Connected Nation. In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state. This is approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with Ohio or Tennessee. The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the awardees and 80% coming from the Federal Government
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Preach it Tom! Wake up folks. Regardless of your political views, your approval/disapproval of the stimulus package it's out there and the money is becoming available. WE PAID INTO THIS WITH OUR TAXES! IT'S OUR MONEY! I don't know about all you, but I have been preparing business and product plans since November and am waiting like a hawk for the grant process to be defined. Tom DeReggi wrote: Brian, Thats where I disagree. I'm surprised to hear it come from you. Quick Note: Just two years ago, CN was nobody. They have gotten clout because they got off their hind side and started working on a solution to the problem. But CN has had lots of critisim, they are not invincible. What you should be doing is writting your ticket to financial freedom, by preparing plans for WISPs. Grant awardees can't write checks to themselves, but they can write checks to their solution providers and contractors necessary to fullfil their obligations of and goals for their grants. Brian, many WISPs like your work and see the value, but aren't paying you now for services because they simply don't have the budget for it. The grant program is an opportunity to get in in the budget. If mapping isn't included in their grant apps, it won't likely be in their budget after their award either. It might be hard to get a seperate grant for mapping. But its real easy to add a line item to an existing application. If I were you, I'd be putting togeather the deluxe package for WISPs to include in their applications, and it doesn't have to be cheaper. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Amen Rick I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea. If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on. Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do it to convince the organizations that are handing out money. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:23 PM To: ccoo...@intelliwave.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Chris, It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for Connected Nation. In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state. This is approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with Ohio or Tennessee. The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the awardees and 80% coming from the Federal Government. If this assumption is correct, it didn't take Connected Nation long to come up with a number to present to the legislators that sponsored the bill. I'm not saying that this funding won't be allocated to other grantees but I have been told that it will be extremely difficult to buck this legislation given the current political clout that Connected Nation seems to have. That is not to say that the states themselves will get control of the funding and will make those decisions separately. Respectfully, Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP. Will this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to map their expanded networks? Will it be available to all wisps to map their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB map? Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Tom, I think you misunderstood my position. I have reviewed many of connected nations' completed projects and their mapping methodologies. In other aspects of taxpayer funded mapping efforts, the resulting data has been put in the public domain because the taxpayers own the right to the results. Having connected nation do a mapping effort funded by the taxpayers, and then not give anyone access to the data except for a pdf map, is not in the public best interest. We saw the board makeup of connected nation when they asked if WISPA wanted to join. As we all discovered, those board members are largely made up of people from the Telco and Cable companies. That is where they get their clout. That is also why they stick to their guns and map the broadband data under NDA and won't release the results. I am not against the broadband mapping initiative at all. I support the concept of mapping, just not the way connected nation has done it in the past. I also feel it is dangerous putting the projects in the hands of organizations who could be subject to the perception of not being completely objective. There are many states that have already done a good job of mapping broadband or are well on their way. California did a nice one (http://www.calink.ca.gov/taskforcereport/), Maine and others have also put a lot of work in to their programs. It's important to read and understand each projects mapping methodologies to establish how much of a statistical margin of error their results can contain. Nothing is going to be perfect, but it can also be said that it's easy to sway results depending on how you report data in statistical form. From a rural broadband perspective, a simple overstatement of a service area by say 5 or 10 percent can lock out a large number of households that might be the difference in making a rural WISP or other ISP business case possible. In the case of KY or OH, there are no provisions for others to view the comprehensive data sets for either broadband studies or other purposes. The only result provided was a pdf map and a web site where you can inquire based on a single address point. If connected nation has not figured out how to map broadband in a manor where they can release the data when finished, then the taxpayer is not getting their best value. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Tom DeReggi [mailto:wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:02 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Brian, Thats where I disagree. I'm surprised to hear it come from you. Quick Note: Just two years ago, CN was nobody. They have gotten clout because they got off their hind side and started working on a solution to the problem. But CN has had lots of critisim, they are not invincible. What you should be doing is writting your ticket to financial freedom, by preparing plans for WISPs. Grant awardees can't write checks to themselves, but they can write checks to their solution providers and contractors necessary to fullfil their obligations of and goals for their grants. Brian, many WISPs like your work and see the value, but aren't paying you now for services because they simply don't have the budget for it. The grant program is an opportunity to get in in the budget. If mapping isn't included in their grant apps, it won't likely be in their budget after their award either. It might be hard to get a seperate grant for mapping. But its real easy to add a line item to an existing application. If I were you, I'd be putting togeather the deluxe package for WISPs to include in their applications, and it doesn't have to be cheaper. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Amen Rick I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea. If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on. Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do it to convince the organizations that are handing out money. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
At what cost? Will the Feds own you and your business? Will you have to open up your financials and account to them? I'm just asking... -RickG On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Charles Wyble char...@thewybles.com wrote: Preach it Tom! Wake up folks. Regardless of your political views, your approval/disapproval of the stimulus package it's out there and the money is becoming available. WE PAID INTO THIS WITH OUR TAXES! IT'S OUR MONEY! I don't know about all you, but I have been preparing business and product plans since November and am waiting like a hawk for the grant process to be defined. Tom DeReggi wrote: Brian, Thats where I disagree. I'm surprised to hear it come from you. Quick Note: Just two years ago, CN was nobody. They have gotten clout because they got off their hind side and started working on a solution to the problem. But CN has had lots of critisim, they are not invincible. What you should be doing is writting your ticket to financial freedom, by preparing plans for WISPs. Grant awardees can't write checks to themselves, but they can write checks to their solution providers and contractors necessary to fullfil their obligations of and goals for their grants. Brian, many WISPs like your work and see the value, but aren't paying you now for services because they simply don't have the budget for it. The grant program is an opportunity to get in in the budget. If mapping isn't included in their grant apps, it won't likely be in their budget after their award either. It might be hard to get a seperate grant for mapping. But its real easy to add a line item to an existing application. If I were you, I'd be putting togeather the deluxe package for WISPs to include in their applications, and it doesn't have to be cheaper. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Webster bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Amen Rick I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea. If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on. Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do it to convince the organizations that are handing out money. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:23 PM To: ccoo...@intelliwave.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Chris, It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for Connected Nation. In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state. This is approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with Ohio or Tennessee. The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the awardees and 80% coming from the Federal Government. If this assumption is correct, it didn't take Connected Nation long to come up with a number to present to the legislators that sponsored the bill. I'm not saying that this funding won't be allocated to other grantees but I have been told that it will be extremely difficult to buck this legislation given the current political clout that Connected Nation seems to have. That is not to say that the states themselves will get control of the funding and will make those decisions separately. Respectfully, Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP. Will this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to map their expanded networks? Will it be available to all wisps to map their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB map? Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Charles, I am not against this stimulus package nor the mapping effort. There has been considerable criticism of connected nation and where they have responded to same, I have watched carefully. Technically they have made the data available to the public and to the uninitiated decision makers, they think this is great. The format for which they have released the data is not what makes good use of a taxpayer funded mapping program. GIS and mapping should be considered a large Boolean logic system. In the same way you would do searches for key words using an internet search engine, mapping data layers can be used in a similar fashion. For example, if the broadband GIS data results were openly available, communities and/or individuals could build an application where you could ask things like, show me homes for sale in the $200,000 range with 3 bedrooms, in x school district in y municipality that have broadband. Today you as a citizen, who funded projects like the Census , have access to data sets which allow you to gather that type of information. The broadband mapping should be made available in the same formats. Maps in pdf format do not meet that criteria. Connected Nation has gone to great lengths to technically release their results, but also have hobbled the process and not made the real data available to even the government agencies. Think about that when all the grant applications start streaming in and the reviewers are trying to verify the communities that have or don't have broadband. There are many uses and benefits to keeping the data in the public domain. Public policy and academic groups would use this as an additional data element for their socio economic studies, other industries who might be privately looking to locate new facilities, could use it and make sure the infrastructure they need would be located on otherwise suitable property. There are many others uses that I am aware of and probably many more that I wouldn't have though about. Point being is that connected nation does not share this philosophy. For the money they have spent on mapping projects to date, they could have easily gathered and compiled the same results using other methods with publically available data. They chose not to, and obtained information under NDA. I question if they did this because they took the lazy route or if it was done intentionally. The slightest little differences in the wording of contracts or final rules would go unnoticed to the casual observer, but in the end will make a huge difference in the benefit and usability to the final product. I would love to lead a crusade to make sure this does not happen and to help educate all the policy makers involved. Unfortunately that takes a great deal of time and connections to get in front of the right people. As one individual I have neither. I have been talking to other groups that may have the resources to do so. I continue to offer my help and expertise in hopes that the best solutions will prevail to the maximum benefit of the taxpayer. The WISP industry would benefit a great deal by keeping access to the results open. It will go a long way in helping determine market viability for a particular business plan. It would also make the process and expense to apply for these grants less costly. I made the statement to move ahead despite the mapping effort only because I fear that the worst would happen and the data will only be available in formats such as in Kentucky and Ohio. Those maps are all but useless when you need to answer complex questions like the number of households not served by broadband but would be under your project proposal. All important information under the grant processes. The statement was meant to say that you can still do it without the national mapping effort and at a much lower cost. This is a very complex issue and difficult to debate the points though email or list format. Out of frustration I hastily sent of a response and did not clearly state my thoughts on the topic. As a mapping geek I could drone on forever about the topic. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: Charles Wyble [mailto:char...@thewybles.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 4:15 PM To: WISPA General List Cc: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Preach it Tom! Wake up folks. Regardless of your political views, your approval/disapproval of the stimulus package it's out there and the money is becoming available. WE PAID INTO THIS WITH OUR TAXES! IT'S OUR MONEY! I don't know about all you, but I have been preparing business and product plans since November and am waiting like a hawk for the grant process to be defined. Tom DeReggi wrote: Brian, Thats where I disagree. I'm surprised to hear it come from you. Quick Note: Just two years ago, CN was nobody. They have gotten clout because they got off their hind side and started working on a solution
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Brian Webster wrote: Charles, I am not against this stimulus package nor the mapping effort. Understood. There has been considerable criticism of connected nation and where they have responded to same, I have watched carefully. I will look into this further. This is the first mention I have seen of that entity. Technically they have made the data available to the public and to the uninitiated decision makers, they think this is great. Gotcha. Yes I agree a final product in PDF format isn't overly interesting. However I'm not sure if the data will only be available in that format. We should push for the raw data to be available. The format for which they have released the data is not what makes good use of a taxpayer funded mapping program. GIS and mapping should be considered a large Boolean logic system. In the same way you would do searches for key words using an internet search engine, mapping data layers can be used in a similar fashion. For example, if the broadband GIS data results were openly available, communities and/or individuals could build an application where you could ask things like, show me homes for sale in the $200,000 range with 3 bedrooms, in x school district in y municipality that have broadband. Today you as a citizen, who funded projects like the Census , have access to data sets which allow you to gather that type of information. For example TIGER shape files and FCC shape files. The broadband mapping should be made available in the same formats. Agreed. Maps in pdf format do not meet that criteria. Right. Connected Nation has gone to great lengths to technically release their results, but also have hobbled the process and not made the real data available to even the government agencies. Think about that when all the grant applications start streaming in and the reviewers are trying to verify the communities that have or don't have broadband. Sure. So lets push for the raw data to be available. There are many uses and benefits to keeping the data in the public domain. Public policy and academic groups would use this as an additional data element for their socio economic studies, other industries who might be privately looking to locate new facilities, could use it and make sure the infrastructure they need would be located on otherwise suitable property. There are many others uses that I am aware of and probably many more that I wouldn't have though about. Point being is that connected nation does not share this philosophy. Makes sense. For the money they have spent on mapping projects to date, they could have easily gathered and compiled the same results using other methods with publically available data. They chose not to, and obtained information under NDA. I question if they did this because they took the lazy route or if it was done intentionally. The slightest little differences in the wording of contracts or final rules would go unnoticed to the casual observer, but in the end will make a huge difference in the benefit and usability to the final product. Very true. I would love to lead a crusade to make sure this does not happen and to help educate all the policy makers involved. Unfortunately that takes a great deal of time and connections to get in front of the right people. As one individual I have neither. I have been talking to other groups that may have the resources to do so. I continue to offer my help and expertise in hopes that the best solutions will prevail to the maximum benefit of the taxpayer. The WISP industry would benefit a great deal by keeping access to the results open. It will go a long way in helping determine market viability for a particular business plan. It would also make the process and expense to apply for these grants less costly. I made the statement to move ahead despite the mapping effort only because I fear that the worst would happen and the data will only be available in formats such as in Kentucky and Ohio. Those maps are all but useless when you need to answer complex questions like the number of households not served by broadband but would be under your project proposal. All important information under the grant processes. The statement was meant to say that you can still do it without the national mapping effort and at a much lower cost. This is a very complex issue and difficult to debate the points though email or list format. Out of frustration I hastily sent of a response and did not clearly state my thoughts on the topic. As a mapping geek I could drone on forever about the topic. Thank you very very much for your detailed response. I appreciate the time and effort you put into it. I'm working on combining the LA County GIS data, FCC data, and Census data and wardriving data nto an online solution that folks can play with. Full GIS data from the county (couple gig SHP files) on DVD
[WISPA] NTIA mapping
There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP. Will this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to map their expanded networks? Will it be available to all wisps to map their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB map? Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Possibly, but I think it's more likely that the mapping money will go to the states or big academic groups that are doing comprehensive maps over wide geographic areas. Again, it's a wait-and-see sort of thing, since the BTOP guidelines aren't out yet. InLine vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist InLine Connections Solutions Through Technology 600 Lakeshore Pkwy Birmingham AL, 35209 205-278-8106 [p] 205-941-1934[f] vedwa...@inline.com www.InLine.com All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and any attached files may contain confidential information and are intended solely for the message recipient. If you are not the message recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP. Will this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to map their expanded networks? Will it be available to all wisps to map their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB map? Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Chris, It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for Connected Nation. In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state. This is approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with Ohio or Tennessee. The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the awardees and 80% coming from the Federal Government. If this assumption is correct, it didn't take Connected Nation long to come up with a number to present to the legislators that sponsored the bill. I'm not saying that this funding won't be allocated to other grantees but I have been told that it will be extremely difficult to buck this legislation given the current political clout that Connected Nation seems to have. That is not to say that the states themselves will get control of the funding and will make those decisions separately. Respectfully, Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP. Will this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to map their expanded networks? Will it be available to all wisps to map their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB map? Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2082 - Release Date: 04/27/09 06:19:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping
Amen Rick I've always maintained the thought that the 350 Million was another back door political payback to the Telco and cable companies via Connected Nation. With the fact that this funding gets put out there and then the data never really becomes available because of the NDA's signed, it just smells like a pork barrel project to me. Your explanation just backs up that idea. If you want to map broadband, go to a small organization like myself. We can do the work for tenths of a penny on the dollar these guys are quoting. You just build that cost in to the rest of your stimulus project and move on. Trying to take on Connected Nation is a losing battle. Just step around them and move forward..there are plenty of ways to map the competitive broadband in a market without proprietary data and you can successfully do it to convince the organizations that are handing out money. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on Behalf Of Rick Harnish Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:23 PM To: ccoo...@intelliwave.com; 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] NTIA mapping Chris, It is my understanding that this bill was specifically written for Connected Nation. In a conversation today in Indianapolis I was told that if you divide $350 million by 50 states you get $7,000,000 per state. This is approximately 80% of the $9,000,000 contract they recently signed with Ohio or Tennessee. The 80% number coincidentally matches up with the current thinking on the Broadband Stimulus Grants with 20% coming from the awardees and 80% coming from the Federal Government. If this assumption is correct, it didn't take Connected Nation long to come up with a number to present to the legislators that sponsored the bill. I'm not saying that this funding won't be allocated to other grantees but I have been told that it will be extremely difficult to buck this legislation given the current political clout that Connected Nation seems to have. That is not to say that the states themselves will get control of the funding and will make those decisions separately. Respectfully, Rick Harnish -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of chris cooper Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:01 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] NTIA mapping There is a $350 million mapping component set aside under BTOP. Will this funding be available in smaller chunks to successful grantees to map their expanded networks? Will it be available to all wisps to map their existing networks in an effort to add to the overall national BB map? Chris Cooper Intelliwave WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.287 / Virus Database: 270.12.4/2082 - Release Date: 04/27/09 06:19:00 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
