Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
All I can say is 1) With Contracts at $5 million dollars per state, and multiple states, Connected NAtions sure as heck should have skilled staff and reliable flexible methods, with that much money thown at it. No disrespect meant, just stating, thats a lot of money. 2) Its good to hear that Connected Nation has taken such positive steps in their efforts on mapping. . Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Spann, Chip To: wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 2:18 PM Subject: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? Connected Nation employs actual wireless engineers, most of whom have 25+ years of experience in EBS, BRS, WCS, AWS, LMDS, PCS and unlicensed wireless bands. Most of us have also been WISPs ourselves and, to that end, we understand your business quite well. Radio Mobile is one of the propagation modeling tools we use but we also have 5 licensed copies of EDX Signal and Signal Pro. We have tested and used MapInfo, CelPlan, Splat and more than a dozen other wireless propagation modeling tools. Mr. Webster states that his methodology is easy to use and understand. Some states have neither methodology nor staff for addressing fixed wireless. Perhaps our methodology is more complex yet, at the end of the day, state mapping agents are required to effectively deliver the same product to NTIA. I head up the fixed wireless and mobile wireless user group at NTIA and have a published white paper explaining our rather long, but exceptionally detailed, methodology and would be happy to share it with this group upon request. Finally, some mapping agents (like our company) go beyond simply creating a theoretical propagation model - we do conduct static field tests and compile data at hundreds of points during drive tests. Last year we drove over 100,000 miles last year, spectrum analyzer and CPE in hand, conducting tests and using the data to refine our propagation models. However, nothing is as important than the relationship between the mapping agent and the WISP. In the states where we are engaged, we spend a great deal of time talking to and working with the WISPs so that we have a keen understanding of their system BEFORE we create propagation models. Charles "Chip" Spann Director - Engineering & Technical Services Connected Nation (270) 799-0448 csp...@connectednation.org -- WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
Brian, No worries. I don't work for CN at all. I merely peek in through the windows and see what's happening here and there across our country. I see exactly what you are talking about: Great with ArcView, not so much with propagation modeling software. It's like when the public safety departments try to get the radio guys to fix the computers :) -drew On Aug 4, 2011, at 3:47 PM, Brian Webster wrote: > Drew, > That statement was meant to state that many states (non > connected nation contracts mostly) have the bulk of their experience with GIS > and data companies, not people who have worked in the broadband industry. > When it comes to reviewing data and information collected by some GIS > companies, they typically do not have a good understanding of the value of > various data when looking at the broadband picture in a state. This is not to > say that they lack the skills to map what they have been given and compile it > in to the necessary formats for the NTIA, but what they do lack is the > ability to think outside the box, to work with carriers in a way to minimize > the carriers level of work they need to do to supply good data to the mapping > effort. I have seen many contractors that just can’t deal with anything > outside their form and checkbox system (again, this are not connected nation > contracted states). > > If Connected Nation takes my comments personally please let me state that > this is not an attack on any of their work. These are my observations of > working with other states in conjunction with WISP’s outside the states that > have a contract with Connected Nation. My statement was based on direct > interaction with the state contracts and the WISP’s. In one case it took a > direct intervention from the NTIA to get it worked out with said state. > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. > Cooperstown, NY 13326 > (607) 643-4055 Office > (607) 435-3988 Mobile > (208) 692-1898 Fax > Skype: Radiowebst > www.wirelessmapping.com > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Drew Lentz > Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 1:06 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? > > I disagree with this: > Most of these mapping contractors are people who do not have any broadband > experience. > > Depending on the group that gets assigned the funding for the mapping > projects (and that is done per state), some of these guys are highly > proficient in doing the data collection. They have decades of experience and > most definitely know what they are doing. > > The only reason I mention this is because part of their toolset does include > pretty sophisticated software, that does in fact have a higher price tag than > RM. I love RM, always have, and have used it for years. But crunching > together WiMax, LTE, Wi-Fi, etc into it simultaneously can be kind of a > hassle; and exporting it and combining it with data from thousands of > locations, just as difficult. > > One process that I am familiar with when it comes to this (at least here in > TX and what one of the WISPs I built went through) went like this: > > 1. Contacted by the mapping agency > 2. The mapping agency asked for coverage maps, if they were available. > 3. Info on tx and rx gear was obtained for signal modeling. > 4. test points were assigned. > 5. Test points were used to gather real-world signal levels. > 6. Maps were created based on tx and rx gear and real-world signal levels. > 7. each one of those newly found maps were sent upstream to state HQ where > they were combined with all the other state maps to create a pretty thorough > database / map > > -d > > On Aug 4, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > > > Most of these mapping contractors are people who do not have any broadband > experience. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
Drew, That statement was meant to state that many states (non connected nation contracts mostly) have the bulk of their experience with GIS and data companies, not people who have worked in the broadband industry. When it comes to reviewing data and information collected by some GIS companies, they typically do not have a good understanding of the value of various data when looking at the broadband picture in a state. This is not to say that they lack the skills to map what they have been given and compile it in to the necessary formats for the NTIA, but what they do lack is the ability to think outside the box, to work with carriers in a way to minimize the carriers level of work they need to do to supply good data to the mapping effort. I have seen many contractors that just can't deal with anything outside their form and checkbox system (again, this are not connected nation contracted states). If Connected Nation takes my comments personally please let me state that this is not an attack on any of their work. These are my observations of working with other states in conjunction with WISP's outside the states that have a contract with Connected Nation. My statement was based on direct interaction with the state contracts and the WISP's. In one case it took a direct intervention from the NTIA to get it worked out with said state. Thank You, Brian Webster 214 Eggleston Hill Rd. Cooperstown, NY 13326 (607) 643-4055 Office (607) 435-3988 Mobile (208) 692-1898 Fax Skype: Radiowebst <http://www.wirelessmapping.com> www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Drew Lentz Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 1:06 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? I disagree with this: Most of these mapping contractors are people who do not have any broadband experience. Depending on the group that gets assigned the funding for the mapping projects (and that is done per state), some of these guys are highly proficient in doing the data collection. They have decades of experience and most definitely know what they are doing. The only reason I mention this is because part of their toolset does include pretty sophisticated software, that does in fact have a higher price tag than RM. I love RM, always have, and have used it for years. But crunching together WiMax, LTE, Wi-Fi, etc into it simultaneously can be kind of a hassle; and exporting it and combining it with data from thousands of locations, just as difficult. One process that I am familiar with when it comes to this (at least here in TX and what one of the WISPs I built went through) went like this: 1. Contacted by the mapping agency 2. The mapping agency asked for coverage maps, if they were available. 3. Info on tx and rx gear was obtained for signal modeling. 4. test points were assigned. 5. Test points were used to gather real-world signal levels. 6. Maps were created based on tx and rx gear and real-world signal levels. 7. each one of those newly found maps were sent upstream to state HQ where they were combined with all the other state maps to create a pretty thorough database / map -d On Aug 4, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Brian Webster wrote: Most of these mapping contractors are people who do not have any broadband experience. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
The first proposed propagation they gave me of a 5Ghz tower looked like a full circle with 99% coverage. This is with rolling hills and a handful of trees. Even well above EIRP that wouldn't be realistic. I asked them to tone it down (I forget the exact terms) and they came back with a much more realistic map. All other towers seemed more accurate, but are much smaller AGL. Also, it is fixed wireless broadband =) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:38 PM, Brian Webster wrote: > Let me state that Connected Nation does a great job of working to map fixed > wireless operators in the states they have contracts from what I have seen. > The work I am doing in Illinois is a handoff of the work Connected Nation > did prior to their contract expiring. I will state that their work was done > well and certainly a far cry from some of the other states that do not > contract with them. As Chip mentions, many states do not have the staff or > experience to deal with wireless very well. I was not singling out Connected > Nation. > > ** ** > > My methodology is not meant to slight the work of connected nation, my > methodology is meant to reduce the amount of work required for a WISP to > have to do to participate in the national broadband map. While the data some > states like to collect is very detailed and does allow for the ability to do > very advanced studies with tools like EDX Signal Pro, the amount of > additional detail gained in coverage areas over my methodology has not been > enough that I feel the need to alienate WISP’s based on a very intimidating > request for information. Most WISP’s have also felt that the amount of work > they would have to do to compile that level of detail in data should be done > by the companies who received money to conduct the work in the first place. > While this is not always practical because the data still resides with the > WISP, I do not feel there needs to be as much minutia gathered which takes a > huge amount of time away from WISP operations that generate revenue. The > Illinois process also provides for direct feedback with the WISP’s by > sending them a detailed fully interactive final version of their network > coverage map of which they can spot check and validate the propagation > results as well as make any annotations in the geographically proper place. > We also do other validation through data sets obtained outside of the > carrier supplied information. These are in the form of speed tests, user > surveys, and other crowd sourced data. > > ** ** > > While it would be nice to do a lot more field verification, there are too > many factors to do a practical drive test or spectrum analysis of a WISP > network. Between the proprietary protocols, nature of high gain fixed > wireless CPE and their mounting heights, provisioning to gain access to the > network, other network settings such as bandwidth management and cloaking, > there are just too many factors that come in to play for an effective and > valid drive test effort. Drive testing and spectrum analysis does work well > for the likes of the cellular companies and Clearwire. For small WISP’s the > challenges are too much. > > ** ** > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > www.wirelessmapping.com > > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > ** ** > > *From:* wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] *On > Behalf Of *Spann, Chip > *Sent:* Thursday, August 04, 2011 2:18 PM > *To:* wireless@wispa.org > *Subject:* [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? > > ** ** > > Connected Nation employs actual wireless engineers, most of whom have 25+ > years of experience in EBS, BRS, WCS, AWS, LMDS, PCS and unlicensed wireless > bands. Most of us have also been WISPs ourselves and, to that end, we > understand your business quite well. Radio Mobile is one of the propagation > modeling tools we use but we also have 5 licensed copies of EDX Signal and > Signal Pro. We have tested and used MapInfo, CelPlan, Splat and more than a > dozen other wireless propagation modeling tools. > > ** ** > > Mr. Webster states that his methodology is easy to use and understand. > Some states have neither methodology nor staff for addressing fixed > wireless. Perhaps our methodology is more complex yet, at the end of the > day, state mapping agents are required to effectively deliver the same > product to NTIA. I head up the fixed wireless and mobile wireless user > group at NTIA and have a published white paper explaining our rather long, > but exceptionally detailed, methodology and would be happy to share it with > this group upon requ
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
Let me state that Connected Nation does a great job of working to map fixed wireless operators in the states they have contracts from what I have seen. The work I am doing in Illinois is a handoff of the work Connected Nation did prior to their contract expiring. I will state that their work was done well and certainly a far cry from some of the other states that do not contract with them. As Chip mentions, many states do not have the staff or experience to deal with wireless very well. I was not singling out Connected Nation. My methodology is not meant to slight the work of connected nation, my methodology is meant to reduce the amount of work required for a WISP to have to do to participate in the national broadband map. While the data some states like to collect is very detailed and does allow for the ability to do very advanced studies with tools like EDX Signal Pro, the amount of additional detail gained in coverage areas over my methodology has not been enough that I feel the need to alienate WISP's based on a very intimidating request for information. Most WISP's have also felt that the amount of work they would have to do to compile that level of detail in data should be done by the companies who received money to conduct the work in the first place. While this is not always practical because the data still resides with the WISP, I do not feel there needs to be as much minutia gathered which takes a huge amount of time away from WISP operations that generate revenue. The Illinois process also provides for direct feedback with the WISP's by sending them a detailed fully interactive final version of their network coverage map of which they can spot check and validate the propagation results as well as make any annotations in the geographically proper place. We also do other validation through data sets obtained outside of the carrier supplied information. These are in the form of speed tests, user surveys, and other crowd sourced data. While it would be nice to do a lot more field verification, there are too many factors to do a practical drive test or spectrum analysis of a WISP network. Between the proprietary protocols, nature of high gain fixed wireless CPE and their mounting heights, provisioning to gain access to the network, other network settings such as bandwidth management and cloaking, there are just too many factors that come in to play for an effective and valid drive test effort. Drive testing and spectrum analysis does work well for the likes of the cellular companies and Clearwire. For small WISP's the challenges are too much. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Spann, Chip Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 2:18 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? Connected Nation employs actual wireless engineers, most of whom have 25+ years of experience in EBS, BRS, WCS, AWS, LMDS, PCS and unlicensed wireless bands. Most of us have also been WISPs ourselves and, to that end, we understand your business quite well. Radio Mobile is one of the propagation modeling tools we use but we also have 5 licensed copies of EDX Signal and Signal Pro. We have tested and used MapInfo, CelPlan, Splat and more than a dozen other wireless propagation modeling tools. Mr. Webster states that his methodology is easy to use and understand. Some states have neither methodology nor staff for addressing fixed wireless. Perhaps our methodology is more complex yet, at the end of the day, state mapping agents are required to effectively deliver the same product to NTIA. I head up the fixed wireless and mobile wireless user group at NTIA and have a published white paper explaining our rather long, but exceptionally detailed, methodology and would be happy to share it with this group upon request. Finally, some mapping agents (like our company) go beyond simply creating a theoretical propagation model - we do conduct static field tests and compile data at hundreds of points during drive tests. Last year we drove over 100,000 miles last year, spectrum analyzer and CPE in hand, conducting tests and using the data to refine our propagation models. However, nothing is as important than the relationship between the mapping agent and the WISP. In the states where we are engaged, we spend a great deal of time talking to and working with the WISPs so that we have a keen understanding of their system BEFORE we create propagation models. Charles "Chip" Spann Director - Engineering & Technical Services Connected Nation (270) 799-0448 csp...@connectednation.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
It is good that you talk with the provider before doing drive-arounds as in my area a drive around would pretty tell you there is no service since our cpe average antenna is about 30 feet AGL. On 8/4/2011 2:18 PM, Spann, Chip wrote: Connected Nation employs actual wireless engineers, most of whom have 25+ years of experience in EBS, BRS, WCS, AWS, LMDS, PCS and unlicensed wireless bands. Most of us have also been WISPs ourselves and, to that end, we understand your business quite well. Radio Mobile is one of the propagation modeling tools we use but we also have 5 licensed copies of EDX Signal and Signal Pro. We have tested and used MapInfo, CelPlan, Splat and more than a dozen other wireless propagation modeling tools. Mr. Webster states that his methodology is easy to use and understand. Some states have neither methodology nor staff for addressing fixed wireless. Perhaps our methodology is more complex yet, at the end of the day, state mapping agents are required to effectively deliver the same product to NTIA. I head up the fixed wireless and mobile wireless user group at NTIA and have a published white paper explaining our rather long, but exceptionally detailed, methodology and would be happy to share it with this group upon request. Finally, some mapping agents (like our company) go beyond simply creating a theoretical propagation model -- we do conduct static field tests and compile data at hundreds of points during drive tests. Last year we drove over 100,000 miles last year, spectrum analyzer and CPE in hand, conducting tests and using the data to refine our propagation models. However, nothing is as important than the relationship between the mapping agent and the WISP. In the states where we are engaged, we spend a great deal of time talking to and working with the WISPs so that we have a keen understanding of their system BEFORE we create propagation models. Charles "Chip" Spann Director - Engineering & Technical Services Connected Nation (270) 799-0448 csp...@connectednation.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Networking, LLC Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 (765) 439-4253 (855) 231-6239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
Connected Nation employs actual wireless engineers, most of whom have 25+ years of experience in EBS, BRS, WCS, AWS, LMDS, PCS and unlicensed wireless bands. Most of us have also been WISPs ourselves and, to that end, we understand your business quite well. Radio Mobile is one of the propagation modeling tools we use but we also have 5 licensed copies of EDX Signal and Signal Pro. We have tested and used MapInfo, CelPlan, Splat and more than a dozen other wireless propagation modeling tools. Mr. Webster states that his methodology is easy to use and understand. Some states have neither methodology nor staff for addressing fixed wireless. Perhaps our methodology is more complex yet, at the end of the day, state mapping agents are required to effectively deliver the same product to NTIA. I head up the fixed wireless and mobile wireless user group at NTIA and have a published white paper explaining our rather long, but exceptionally detailed, methodology and would be happy to share it with this group upon request. Finally, some mapping agents (like our company) go beyond simply creating a theoretical propagation model - we do conduct static field tests and compile data at hundreds of points during drive tests. Last year we drove over 100,000 miles last year, spectrum analyzer and CPE in hand, conducting tests and using the data to refine our propagation models. However, nothing is as important than the relationship between the mapping agent and the WISP. In the states where we are engaged, we spend a great deal of time talking to and working with the WISPs so that we have a keen understanding of their system BEFORE we create propagation models. Charles "Chip" Spann Director - Engineering & Technical Services Connected Nation (270) 799-0448 csp...@connectednation.org WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
I disagree with this: Most of these mapping contractors are people who do not have any broadband experience. Depending on the group that gets assigned the funding for the mapping projects (and that is done per state), some of these guys are highly proficient in doing the data collection. They have decades of experience and most definitely know what they are doing. The only reason I mention this is because part of their toolset does include pretty sophisticated software, that does in fact have a higher price tag than RM. I love RM, always have, and have used it for years. But crunching together WiMax, LTE, Wi-Fi, etc into it simultaneously can be kind of a hassle; and exporting it and combining it with data from thousands of locations, just as difficult. One process that I am familiar with when it comes to this (at least here in TX and what one of the WISPs I built went through) went like this: 1. Contacted by the mapping agency 2. The mapping agency asked for coverage maps, if they were available. 3. Info on tx and rx gear was obtained for signal modeling. 4. test points were assigned. 5. Test points were used to gather real-world signal levels. 6. Maps were created based on tx and rx gear and real-world signal levels. 7. each one of those newly found maps were sent upstream to state HQ where they were combined with all the other state maps to create a pretty thorough database / map -d On Aug 4, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > Most of these mapping contractors are people who do not have any broadband > experience. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
Not all of them are using Radio Mobile although many are. The basic Radio Mobile plots are not the only tools they have to use. They also need advanced GIS tools to convert the Radio Mobile plots to something in vector file format. Radio Mobile plots are only images and do not scale when zoomed in or out nor do they tell any other data attributes in a mapping database such as the speed information or the carrier who offers the service there. If WISP's would provide the data they most certainly use it. Most of these mapping contractors are people who do not have any broadband experience. They are tasked with asking for and gathering data. Some person made up the data request for WISP's thinking that they need all this information so that they will not constantly have to go back and forth once they sit down to do the process on each carrier. Most of the RF engineering staff these states have do not understand that WISP coverage can be generated in a much more simple way than they are requesting. Ask the WISP's in Illinois who have dealt with me. My way is much simpler for them to deal with. Radio Mobile can and will generate very accurate maps in a skilled set of hands. I have been using the program for 15 years now and helped in its development with Roger. I have compared it to the various $50,000 and up commercial RF tools I had at my disposal over the years. It's just as good as what I have seen those tools kick out. The real world WISP experience is also nice for additional input but not too many have taken the time to do so. The semiannual map update process is a lot of work. The data that comes in is usually a mess from almost all carriers and there is a huge amount of post processing that needs to be done. Each state has to run the data sets through a standardized error checking tool before submission to the NTA for structure and uniformity. We are not allowed to send the data to them without a clean error check tool. It can be a very daunting process. WISP's are a very important element to showing how well a state is covered yet most states don't yet realize it nor do they have an understanding of the industry or the personalities of those who run those businesses. That is not going to change any time in the near future so if the WISP industry wants more respect it would be in their best interests to be as cooperative and helpful in the mapping process as possible without giving up all their personal business data. It can be done, I am doing it with the Illinois WISP's and Matt Larsen has done it with my help in his states he covers. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: Greg Ihnen [mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 5:34 AM To: WISPA General List Cc: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Subject: Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? To me that hardly seems like a "study" if all they're doing is making predictions with the same tools the WISPs make their predictions with and publish them. And for that they want all the intimate details of your business? The WISPs have Radio Mobile as well as all the real world experience with actual signal strength measurements and knowledge of where there's signal but it's not useable due to interference or Fresnel zone issues etc. Greg On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:45 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: In TX I know they just used radio mobile. On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Brian Webster wrote: No they are producing RF engineering maps and studies using RF propagation tools. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com/> www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: Greg Ihnen [mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 7:18 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Cc: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? Brian, That's interesting. So they're actually making field measurements? I suspect the state's RF staff is probably limited and stretched thin in attempting to cover all the WISPs in the entire state. Their number of measurements would have to be far below that of the WISP operator who has rssi data from every CPE plus all of their pre-sales measurements. Added to that how often could the state's RF staff be resampling? It seems like the state would be much better served to accept the coverage data from the WISP which would have to be more complete and up-to-date. If what they really want is coverage then that's the shortest route. There's always a temptation in data collection to get everything you can so you won't have to get more later if your focus changes and you want to look at something else. That's what Google's Street View in trouble. Greg On Aug 3,
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
To me that hardly seems like a "study" if all they're doing is making predictions with the same tools the WISPs make their predictions with and publish them. And for that they want all the intimate details of your business? The WISPs have Radio Mobile as well as all the real world experience with actual signal strength measurements and knowledge of where there's signal but it's not useable due to interference or Fresnel zone issues etc. Greg On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:45 PM, Cameron Crum wrote: > In TX I know they just used radio mobile. > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Brian Webster > wrote: > No they are producing RF engineering maps and studies using RF propagation > tools. > > > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > www.wirelessmapping.com > > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > > > From: Greg Ihnen [mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 7:18 PM > To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com > Cc: 'WISPA General List' > > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? > > > > Brian, > > > > That's interesting. So they're actually making field measurements? > > > > I suspect the state's RF staff is probably limited and stretched > thin in attempting to cover all the WISPs in the entire state. Their number > of measurements would have to be far below that of the WISP operator who has > rssi data from every CPE plus all of their pre-sales measurements. Added to > that how often could the state's RF staff be resampling? It seems like the > state would be much better served to accept the coverage data from the WISP > which would have to be more complete and up-to-date. > > > > If what they really want is coverage then that's the shortest > route. > > > > There's always a temptation in data collection to get everything > you can so you won't have to get more later if your focus changes and you > want to look at something else. That's what Google's Street View in trouble. > > > > Greg > > > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Brian Webster wrote: > > > > > The states who have their own RF staff are generating RF plots and creating a > polygon shape file of the coverage area the same as the cellular industry > have provided. > > > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > www.wirelessmapping.com > > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > > > From: Greg Ihnen [mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:21 PM > To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? > > > > They're conducting RF propagation studies? Is that not already cut and dried? > > > > How will their findings be presented? Will they be published? > > > > Greg > > > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > > > > > > Brett, > I am the mapping data coordinator for the Illinois portion of the > National Map. They are asking for so many details in anticipation that they > need to conduct RF propagation studies. If you don't want to provide so many > details but still want to participate in the map you can provide them with a > coverage are map and tell them the maximum upload and download advertised > speeds for those areas and they should be happy with that. Matt Larsen and I > went through the process with Nebraska. Took a little convincing to get them > to accept it but they ultimately did. > > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > www.wirelessmapping.com > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3807 - Release Date: 08/03/11 > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3807 - Release Date: 08/03/11 > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You!
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
In TX I know they just used radio mobile. On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM, Brian Webster wrote: > No they are producing RF engineering maps and studies using RF propagation > tools. > > ** ** > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > www.wirelessmapping.com > > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > ** ** > > *From:* Greg Ihnen [mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 03, 2011 7:18 PM > *To:* bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com > *Cc:* 'WISPA General List' > > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? > > ** ** > > Brian, > > ** ** > > That's interesting. So they're actually making field > measurements? > > ** ** > > I suspect the state's RF staff is probably limited and > stretched thin in attempting to cover all the WISPs in the entire state. > Their number of measurements would have to be far below that of the WISP > operator who has rssi data from every CPE plus all of their pre-sales > measurements. Added to that how often could the state's RF staff be > resampling? It seems like the state would be much better served to accept > the coverage data from the WISP which would have to be more complete and > up-to-date. > > ** ** > > If what they really want is coverage then that's the shortest > route. > > ** ** > > There's always a temptation in data collection to get > everything you can so you won't have to get more later if your focus changes > and you want to look at something else. That's what Google's Street View in > trouble. > > ** ** > > Greg > > ** ** > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Brian Webster wrote: > > > > > > The states who have their own RF staff are generating RF plots and creating > a polygon shape file of the coverage area the same as the cellular industry > have provided. > > > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > www.wirelessmapping.com > > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > > > *From:* Greg Ihnen [mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:21 PM > *To:* bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List > *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? > > > > They're conducting RF propagation studies? Is that not already cut and > dried? > > > > How will their findings be presented? Will they be published? > > > > Greg > > > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > > > > > > > Brett, > I am the mapping data coordinator for the Illinois portion of > the > National Map. They are asking for so many details in anticipation that they > need to conduct RF propagation studies. If you don't want to provide so > many > details but still want to participate in the map you can provide them with > a > coverage are map and tell them the maximum upload and download advertised > speeds for those areas and they should be happy with that. Matt Larsen and > I > went through the process with Nebraska. Took a little convincing to get > them > to accept it but they ultimately did. > > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > www.wirelessmapping.com > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3807 - Release Date: 08/03/11*** > * > > ** ** > -- > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3807 - Release Date: 08/03/11*** > * > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
No they are producing RF engineering maps and studies using RF propagation tools. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: Greg Ihnen [mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 7:18 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com Cc: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? Brian, That's interesting. So they're actually making field measurements? I suspect the state's RF staff is probably limited and stretched thin in attempting to cover all the WISPs in the entire state. Their number of measurements would have to be far below that of the WISP operator who has rssi data from every CPE plus all of their pre-sales measurements. Added to that how often could the state's RF staff be resampling? It seems like the state would be much better served to accept the coverage data from the WISP which would have to be more complete and up-to-date. If what they really want is coverage then that's the shortest route. There's always a temptation in data collection to get everything you can so you won't have to get more later if your focus changes and you want to look at something else. That's what Google's Street View in trouble. Greg On Aug 3, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Brian Webster wrote: The states who have their own RF staff are generating RF plots and creating a polygon shape file of the coverage area the same as the cellular industry have provided. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: Greg Ihnen [mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:21 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? They're conducting RF propagation studies? Is that not already cut and dried? How will their findings be presented? Will they be published? Greg On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Brian Webster wrote: Brett, I am the mapping data coordinator for the Illinois portion of the National Map. They are asking for so many details in anticipation that they need to conduct RF propagation studies. If you don't want to provide so many details but still want to participate in the map you can provide them with a coverage are map and tell them the maximum upload and download advertised speeds for those areas and they should be happy with that. Matt Larsen and I went through the process with Nebraska. Took a little convincing to get them to accept it but they ultimately did. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com/> www.Broadband-Mapping.com <http://www.Broadband-Mapping.com/> _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3807 - Release Date: 08/03/11 _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3807 - Release Date: 08/03/11 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
Brian, That's interesting. So they're actually making field measurements? I suspect the state's RF staff is probably limited and stretched thin in attempting to cover all the WISPs in the entire state. Their number of measurements would have to be far below that of the WISP operator who has rssi data from every CPE plus all of their pre-sales measurements. Added to that how often could the state's RF staff be resampling? It seems like the state would be much better served to accept the coverage data from the WISP which would have to be more complete and up-to-date. If what they really want is coverage then that's the shortest route. There's always a temptation in data collection to get everything you can so you won't have to get more later if your focus changes and you want to look at something else. That's what Google's Street View in trouble. Greg On Aug 3, 2011, at 5:41 PM, Brian Webster wrote: > The states who have their own RF staff are generating RF plots and creating a > polygon shape file of the coverage area the same as the cellular industry > have provided. > > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > www.wirelessmapping.com > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > From: Greg Ihnen [mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:21 PM > To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? > > They're conducting RF propagation studies? Is that not already cut and dried? > > How will their findings be presented? Will they be published? > > Greg > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > > > Brett, > I am the mapping data coordinator for the Illinois portion of the > National Map. They are asking for so many details in anticipation that they > need to conduct RF propagation studies. If you don't want to provide so many > details but still want to participate in the map you can provide them with a > coverage are map and tell them the maximum upload and download advertised > speeds for those areas and they should be happy with that. Matt Larsen and I > went through the process with Nebraska. Took a little convincing to get them > to accept it but they ultimately did. > > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > www.wirelessmapping.com > www.Broadband-Mapping.com > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3807 - Release Date: 08/03/11 > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
The states who have their own RF staff are generating RF plots and creating a polygon shape file of the coverage area the same as the cellular industry have provided. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com From: Greg Ihnen [mailto:os10ru...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:21 PM To: bwebs...@wirelessmapping.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? They're conducting RF propagation studies? Is that not already cut and dried? How will their findings be presented? Will they be published? Greg On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Brian Webster wrote: Brett, I am the mapping data coordinator for the Illinois portion of the National Map. They are asking for so many details in anticipation that they need to conduct RF propagation studies. If you don't want to provide so many details but still want to participate in the map you can provide them with a coverage are map and tell them the maximum upload and download advertised speeds for those areas and they should be happy with that. Matt Larsen and I went through the process with Nebraska. Took a little convincing to get them to accept it but they ultimately did. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com/> www.Broadband-Mapping.com <http://www.Broadband-Mapping.com/> _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3807 - Release Date: 08/03/11 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
They're conducting RF propagation studies? Is that not already cut and dried? How will their findings be presented? Will they be published? Greg On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:37 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > Brett, > I am the mapping data coordinator for the Illinois portion of the > National Map. They are asking for so many details in anticipation that they > need to conduct RF propagation studies. If you don't want to provide so many > details but still want to participate in the map you can provide them with a > coverage are map and tell them the maximum upload and download advertised > speeds for those areas and they should be happy with that. Matt Larsen and I > went through the process with Nebraska. Took a little convincing to get them > to accept it but they ultimately did. > > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > www.wirelessmapping.com > www.Broadband-Mapping.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
I suppose I can see the point from your end, but looking at a larger picture of it, having that information can only help out in the long run, I believe. Just as SpectrumBridge is building the opt-in database for unlicensed carriers, I think this is where it is all headed. With the 3650 licenses and TVWS, this frequency coordination can only set to improve the spectrum usage across the US. Besides, in my mind this gives you the ability to identify interference and work around it, if everyone participates. The more transparent everyone is, the easier it is to work around what you are aware of. If everyone holds on to every detail of information, we get this standoff that begins to take place that eventually effects everyone. I'm not saying I am for or against it, I just like to understand every angle of it that I can. -d On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Scott Reed wrote: > They don't need the how we do it part. Model numbers of equipment, > etc., just are not necessary for what they are trying to accomplish. > Neither are frequency bands, etc. What they need is coverage data, > which I agree is important to provide, but no one else needs to know how > I provide it. > > On 8/3/2011 10:50 AM, Drew Lentz wrote: >> I still don't understand why someone *wouldn't* be open to this. If the NTIA >> is asking for your info, and granted none of it is that confidential >> (especially if you use unlicensed), it is so they know where access is and >> isn't. When the maps are drawn and your info wasn't supplied, there will be >> a big hole in that area. When they go to hand out money, they will give it >> to someone to fill that gap. >> >> Excuse me for being naive, but I honestly don't understand why someone would >> purposefully set themselves up to get walked in on by competition, >> especially federally funded competition. Can someone enlighten me? >> >> -drew >> >> >> On Aug 3, 2011, at 9:36 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >> >>> Talk to Brian Webster. He is a subcontractor for the Illinois mapping >>> effort. >>> >>> - >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On 8/3/2011 8:54 AM, Bret Clark wrote: So, like many of you, we're being asked to provide data to NTIA for broadband mapping, but as a private company I'm rather bothered by the confidential information they are asking for. They want to know such things as our spectrum use, antenna locations, antenna types, etc. so they can model our coverage area (something we already do with Radio Mobile). We tried for stimulas money, but got rejected so to be honest I have little interest in providing this information, not to mention having the data used by our competitors. I'm wondering how others felt about providing this information? Thanks Bret Spectra Access 25 Lowell Street, Manchester, NH 03101 www.spectraaccess.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > -- > Scott Reed > Owner > NewWays Networking, LLC > Wireless Networking > Network Design, Installation and Administration > > > > Mikrotik Advanced Certified > > www.nwwnet.net > (765) 855-1060 > (765) 439-4253 > (855) 231-6239 > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
Brett, I am the mapping data coordinator for the Illinois portion of the National Map. They are asking for so many details in anticipation that they need to conduct RF propagation studies. If you don't want to provide so many details but still want to participate in the map you can provide them with a coverage are map and tell them the maximum upload and download advertised speeds for those areas and they should be happy with that. Matt Larsen and I went through the process with Nebraska. Took a little convincing to get them to accept it but they ultimately did. Thank You, Brian Webster www.wirelessmapping.com www.Broadband-Mapping.com -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Bret Clark Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 9:54 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping? So, like many of you, we're being asked to provide data to NTIA for broadband mapping, but as a private company I'm rather bothered by the confidential information they are asking for. They want to know such things as our spectrum use, antenna locations, antenna types, etc. so they can model our coverage area (something we already do with Radio Mobile). We tried for stimulas money, but got rejected so to be honest I have little interest in providing this information, not to mention having the data used by our competitors. I'm wondering how others felt about providing this information? Thanks Bret Spectra Access 25 Lowell Street, Manchester, NH 03101 www.spectraaccess.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3807 - Release Date: 08/03/11 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
They don't need the how we do it part. Model numbers of equipment, etc., just are not necessary for what they are trying to accomplish. Neither are frequency bands, etc. What they need is coverage data, which I agree is important to provide, but no one else needs to know how I provide it. On 8/3/2011 10:50 AM, Drew Lentz wrote: > I still don't understand why someone *wouldn't* be open to this. If the NTIA > is asking for your info, and granted none of it is that confidential > (especially if you use unlicensed), it is so they know where access is and > isn't. When the maps are drawn and your info wasn't supplied, there will be a > big hole in that area. When they go to hand out money, they will give it to > someone to fill that gap. > > Excuse me for being naive, but I honestly don't understand why someone would > purposefully set themselves up to get walked in on by competition, especially > federally funded competition. Can someone enlighten me? > > -drew > > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 9:36 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > >> Talk to Brian Webster. He is a subcontractor for the Illinois mapping >> effort. >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions >> http://www.ics-il.com >> >> >> >> On 8/3/2011 8:54 AM, Bret Clark wrote: >>> So, like many of you, we're being asked to provide data to NTIA for >>> broadband mapping, but as a private company I'm rather bothered by the >>> confidential information they are asking for. They want to know such >>> things as our spectrum use, antenna locations, antenna types, etc. so >>> they can model our coverage area (something we already do with Radio >>> Mobile). We tried for stimulas money, but got rejected so to be honest I >>> have little interest in providing this information, not to mention >>> having the data used by our competitors. >>> >>> I'm wondering how others felt about providing this information? >>> >>> Thanks >>> Bret >>> >>> Spectra Access >>> 25 Lowell Street, >>> Manchester, NH 03101 >>> www.spectraaccess.com >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Networking, LLC Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 (765) 439-4253 (855) 231-6239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
On 08/03/2011 10:51 AM, Fred Goldstein wrote: > But they could go ahead with > something like this (letter of the law notwtihstanding, since law no > loger counts for much here) and thus having your maps submitted by > the deadline may prevent you from being run out of town by a subsidy whore. > Well, if it stops a "subsidy whore" (I like that term :) from coming into my location, I can buy that as a reason for providing the data. Bret WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
At 8/3/2011 09:54 AM, Bret Clark wrote:
>So, like many of you, we're being asked to provide data to NTIA for
>broadband mapping, but as a private company I'm rather bothered by the
>confidential information they are asking for. They want to know such
>things as our spectrum use, antenna locations, antenna types, etc. so
>they can model our coverage area (something we already do with Radio
>Mobile). We tried for stimulas money, but got rejected so to be honest I
>have little interest in providing this information, not to mention
>having the data used by our competitors.
>
>I'm wondering how others felt about providing this information?
Just to throw some more gas onto a fire, there is another possible
reason why at least some of this data should be provided to the feds,
quickly. Specifically, coverage data.
The big ILECs have put together yet another Universal Service and
Intercarrier Compensation reform proposal. It's not as if the FCC
hasn't gone out for Comments on this 10-year-old docket at least five
times, but another round is expected to open this month! The
ATT-Verizon- CenturyLink-Fairpoint-Windstream-Frontier ("ABC plan")
proposal phases out common carriage USF over several years, at least
the smaller portions paid to them (the large Price Cap Carriers),
though the rural Rate of Return Carriers would keep it longer. In
its stead, a Connect America Fund (CAF) subsidizes the provision of
unregulated non-common carrier information service by a single provider.
One detail of the proposal is that CAF will be awarded to one
provider for any census block that is unserved as of 1/1/2012. If an
unsubsidized competitor serves the area beginning next year, it
doesn't count, and CAF will be used to subsidize its ILEC (or one
other, but you know it will always be the ILEC) competitor. If
however a non-USF-receiving provider can document service this year,
then it is not going to get CAF.
The actual 1/1/2012 date may be subject to change, of course,
especially since the FCC can't actually enact new rules that
quickly. (For the past decade and change, their policy has been
"kick the can to your successor".) But they could go ahead with
something like this (letter of the law notwtihstanding, since law no
loger counts for much here) and thus having your maps submitted by
the deadline may prevent you from being run out of town by a subsidy whore.
--
Fred Goldsteink1io fgoldstein "at" ionary.com
ionary Consulting http://www.ionary.com/
+1 617 795 2701
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
I still don't understand why someone *wouldn't* be open to this. If the NTIA is asking for your info, and granted none of it is that confidential (especially if you use unlicensed), it is so they know where access is and isn't. When the maps are drawn and your info wasn't supplied, there will be a big hole in that area. When they go to hand out money, they will give it to someone to fill that gap. Excuse me for being naive, but I honestly don't understand why someone would purposefully set themselves up to get walked in on by competition, especially federally funded competition. Can someone enlighten me? -drew On Aug 3, 2011, at 9:36 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > Talk to Brian Webster. He is a subcontractor for the Illinois mapping > effort. > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > On 8/3/2011 8:54 AM, Bret Clark wrote: >> So, like many of you, we're being asked to provide data to NTIA for >> broadband mapping, but as a private company I'm rather bothered by the >> confidential information they are asking for. They want to know such >> things as our spectrum use, antenna locations, antenna types, etc. so >> they can model our coverage area (something we already do with Radio >> Mobile). We tried for stimulas money, but got rejected so to be honest I >> have little interest in providing this information, not to mention >> having the data used by our competitors. >> >> I'm wondering how others felt about providing this information? >> >> Thanks >> Bret >> >> Spectra Access >> 25 Lowell Street, >> Manchester, NH 03101 >> www.spectraaccess.com >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
I have no problem providing them with my coverage maps, but when I gave some of the requested data to Indiana, their maps were not so accurate. At least Indiana allows us to provide maps rather than all the data. On 8/3/2011 9:54 AM, Bret Clark wrote: > So, like many of you, we're being asked to provide data to NTIA for > broadband mapping, but as a private company I'm rather bothered by the > confidential information they are asking for. They want to know such > things as our spectrum use, antenna locations, antenna types, etc. so > they can model our coverage area (something we already do with Radio > Mobile). We tried for stimulas money, but got rejected so to be honest I > have little interest in providing this information, not to mention > having the data used by our competitors. > > I'm wondering how others felt about providing this information? > > Thanks > Bret > > Spectra Access > 25 Lowell Street, > Manchester, NH 03101 > www.spectraaccess.com > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Networking, LLC Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration Mikrotik Advanced Certified www.nwwnet.net (765) 855-1060 (765) 439-4253 (855) 231-6239 WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
Talk to Brian Webster. He is a subcontractor for the Illinois mapping effort. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com On 8/3/2011 8:54 AM, Bret Clark wrote: > So, like many of you, we're being asked to provide data to NTIA for > broadband mapping, but as a private company I'm rather bothered by the > confidential information they are asking for. They want to know such > things as our spectrum use, antenna locations, antenna types, etc. so > they can model our coverage area (something we already do with Radio > Mobile). We tried for stimulas money, but got rejected so to be honest I > have little interest in providing this information, not to mention > having the data used by our competitors. > > I'm wondering how others felt about providing this information? > > Thanks > Bret > > Spectra Access > 25 Lowell Street, > Manchester, NH 03101 > www.spectraaccess.com > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Providing data to NTIA for Broadband mapping?
So, like many of you, we're being asked to provide data to NTIA for broadband mapping, but as a private company I'm rather bothered by the confidential information they are asking for. They want to know such things as our spectrum use, antenna locations, antenna types, etc. so they can model our coverage area (something we already do with Radio Mobile). We tried for stimulas money, but got rejected so to be honest I have little interest in providing this information, not to mention having the data used by our competitors. I'm wondering how others felt about providing this information? Thanks Bret Spectra Access 25 Lowell Street, Manchester, NH 03101 www.spectraaccess.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
