Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Even some of the old AT&T towers were knocked down by tornados. Bloomfield MO, Huntsville AR were a couple. Don't take your organs to heaven, heaven knows we need them down here! Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today. - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:53 AM Subject: [WISPA] Tornado >I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. > > You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can be but > I > have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting tower or a multi > story > building. Does this happen? > > Walter > > > Walter W. Stumpf Jr. > Xanadu Group Inc. > 179 Statesville Quarry Road > Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA > 973-702-3899 > fax 775-667-1995 > > > > > **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 > 48) > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
For some close-ups scroll down the page and click on any of the images, this is what we walked into. http://www.computeam.com/services/disaster_recovery/ We had to recover equipment for several of our IT clients. Larry -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brad Belton Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 4:23 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tornado A quick search on the tornado that ripped through Fort Worth came up with this: http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/tornado.htm I was standing outside watching the sky when this happened. The tornado touched down about 2 miles east of me...really was a mess. Pictures don't do it justice. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:52 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tornado Okay-so towers do come down but news coverage of it is pretty local. How about multi story buildings? We do see leveled homes, but I have never seen a 4-5-6+ story building for example with damage or leveled. Does it happen/has it happened? Walter >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Reply-To: WISPA General List >>> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST >>> >>> >>>> I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. >>>> >>>> You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can >>>> be but I have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting >>>> tower or a multi story building. Does this happen? >>>> >>>> Walter >>>> >>>> >>>> Walter W. Stumpf Jr. >>>> Xanadu Group Inc. >>>> 179 Statesville Quarry Road >>>> Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA >>>> 973-702-3899 >>>> fax 775-667-1995 >>>> **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003 00025 48) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
A quick search on the tornado that ripped through Fort Worth came up with this: http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/tornado.htm I was standing outside watching the sky when this happened. The tornado touched down about 2 miles east of me...really was a mess. Pictures don't do it justice. Best, Brad -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:52 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tornado Okay-so towers do come down but news coverage of it is pretty local. How about multi story buildings? We do see leveled homes, but I have never seen a 4-5-6+ story building for example with damage or leveled. Does it happen/has it happened? Walter >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Reply-To: WISPA General List >>> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST >>> >>> >>>> I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. >>>> >>>> You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can >>>> be but I have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting >>>> tower or a multi story building. Does this happen? >>>> >>>> Walter >>>> >>>> >>>> Walter W. Stumpf Jr. >>>> Xanadu Group Inc. >>>> 179 Statesville Quarry Road >>>> Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA >>>> 973-702-3899 >>>> fax 775-667-1995 >>>> **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003 00025 48) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Who is the the strongest? Is it Man or is it Mother Nature? http://www.esri.com/news/arcnews/spring01articles/spring01gifs/p20p2.jpg http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2000/photos/w329banktor1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2000/wtorn328a.htm&h=249&w=199&sz=27&hl=en&start=356&tbnid=2_P4skpBUnU6dM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=89&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtornado%2Bdamage%26start%3D336%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D21%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2000/photos/w329banktor1.jpg http://static.flickr.com/44/190036339_262ac2d690.jpg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Okay-so towers do come down but news coverage of it is pretty local. > > How about multi story buildings? We do see leveled homes, but I have never > seen a 4-5-6+ story building for example with damage or leveled. Does it > happen/has it happened? > > Walter > > -- Original Message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST > I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. > > You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can > be but I have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting > tower or a multi story building. Does this happen? > > Walter > > > Walter W. Stumpf Jr. > Xanadu Group Inc. > 179 Statesville Quarry Road > Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA > 973-702-3899 > fax 775-667-1995 > > > > > > > **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 > 48) > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Okay-so towers do come down but news coverage of it is pretty local. How about multi story buildings? We do see leveled homes, but I have never seen a 4-5-6+ story building for example with damage or leveled. Does it happen/has it happened? Walter >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Reply-To: WISPA General List >>> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST >>> >>> I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can be but I have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting tower or a multi story building. Does this happen? Walter Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Just a FYI, remember the red cross was down helping people who were protesting that trail . They were giving water, food, shelter, and medical treatment to those who showed up to "PROTEST" . I understand the right to protest. Great. But why is the "Red Cross" helping these people. Its like them helping us cause we showed up at ISPCON! I know a number of people who donate Tens of Thousands per year, STOP because of this. Dennis M. Burgess Mikrotik Certified Consultant Link Technologies, Inc., St. Louis, Missouri --WISP/Network Support Services-- +1 314-686-1302 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Moldashel Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:33 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tornado Sometimes the Red Cross is not much better. On Feb 7, 2008, at 4:27 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote: > Without getting political...I'm not sure government is the right > vehicle for > this sort of job...no matter who is running the show. > > Jeff > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Jack Unger > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:00 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tornado > > Mark, > > Thanks for your report. I'm sorry that FEMA does not seem to be > focused on > meeting the real needs that people have. On the other hand, I'm > sure that > the FEMA lockdown did a good job of keeping Al Quida terrorists from > potentially entering the disaster area to cause trouble. > > I hope that our new President (whoever that may be) will prove to > be a more > compassionate leader who will be able to motivates FEMA (and for that > mattter, our whole government) to once again focus on meeting the > real human > needs that people have. > > jack > > > Mark Williams wrote: >> Myself and many others responded to Adkins, Arkansas yesterday... >> >> There was a great outpouring of volunteers, equipment, and supplies. >> Quite literally dump trucks, tractor trailers, and many more pickups >> w/ trailers hauling in various dozers, back hoes, materials, food / >> water etc. for clean up and disaster assistance. >> >> The FEMA administrators had the place in TOTAL lock down. They would >> NOT allow assistance efforts to happen. >> A phrase was coined ... that "the government is more focused on >> protecting its rights to be government, than it is on assisting the >> coordination of REAL assistance and aid." >> >> Frankly, that statement sums up the debacle that is FEMA response. >> They completely HALTED a 100% volunteer relief effort! >> >> Then they requested that what was REALLY needed was CAMPING GEAR. >> I nearly lost it. >> >> For those who are not familiar, in Mena / Hope Arkansas there are >> literally HUNDREDS OF SQUARE ACRES of FEMA trailers and RVs parked >> and >> rotting to pieces thanks to FEMA's lame ass efforts to aid Katrina >> victims. Logically, if they needed housing, it would have been as >> easy >> as requesting the volunteers on hand to organize a convoy of >> trucks to >> drive to Mena / Hope and pickup the trailers and deliver them to >> Adkins / Clinton, etc. BUT ALAS, FEMA is not logical in their >> response. >> >> I came away from the experience feeling REALLY good about the >> American >> Spirit, it is clearly alive and well with in our people, but VERY >> clearly not alive in our gov't. >> >> The long term effects of such high handedness by FEMA will be >> disastrous, those who would typically respond will become complacent >> and apathetic and will no longer respond, because after all the Govt >> will handle it right? Sad times America, sad times. >> >> Something needs to be done about this... >> >> God Bless those whom are in dire need and I pray that things change >> rapidly. Unfortunately the media crews that were on location had no >> interest in pointing out the FEMA blockade AGAINST relief efforts. >> >> -Mark Williams >> >> >> On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 09:30 -0600, Scottie Arnett wrote: >> >> >>> Sorry to reply to my own post, but we service the Macon County >>> Tennessee > area that was hardest hit. We have a POP there for dial-up, but > have not > entered that market with our wireless yet. >>> >>> Lots of destruction. The tornado set down and traveled 25 miles >>> or more > without ever lifting. Base ranged from 100 to 400 yards. Rated at > an F2 this > morning by whoeve
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Was this tower guyed??? How tall is/was it??? Nice site install though On Feb 7, 2008, at 3:10 PM, David E. Smith wrote: > Okay, less FEMA politics and more disaster pictures. > > http://images.bureau42.com/sa/blrv08/SANY0837.JPG > > (This was from Tuesday evening. We were nowhere near any tornadoes, > as far as I know, "just" 50-60mph winds.) > > David Smith > MVN.net > > > > -- > -- > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > -- > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > Bob Moldashel [EMAIL PROTECTED] WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Sometimes the Red Cross is not much better. On Feb 7, 2008, at 4:27 PM, Jeff Broadwick wrote: > Without getting political...I'm not sure government is the right > vehicle for > this sort of job...no matter who is running the show. > > Jeff > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:wireless- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Jack Unger > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:00 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tornado > > Mark, > > Thanks for your report. I'm sorry that FEMA does not seem to be > focused on > meeting the real needs that people have. On the other hand, I'm > sure that > the FEMA lockdown did a good job of keeping Al Quida terrorists from > potentially entering the disaster area to cause trouble. > > I hope that our new President (whoever that may be) will prove to > be a more > compassionate leader who will be able to motivates FEMA (and for that > mattter, our whole government) to once again focus on meeting the > real human > needs that people have. > > jack > > > Mark Williams wrote: >> Myself and many others responded to Adkins, Arkansas yesterday... >> >> There was a great outpouring of volunteers, equipment, and supplies. >> Quite literally dump trucks, tractor trailers, and many more pickups >> w/ trailers hauling in various dozers, back hoes, materials, food / >> water etc. for clean up and disaster assistance. >> >> The FEMA administrators had the place in TOTAL lock down. They would >> NOT allow assistance efforts to happen. >> A phrase was coined ... that "the government is more focused on >> protecting its rights to be government, than it is on assisting the >> coordination of REAL assistance and aid." >> >> Frankly, that statement sums up the debacle that is FEMA response. >> They completely HALTED a 100% volunteer relief effort! >> >> Then they requested that what was REALLY needed was CAMPING GEAR. >> I nearly lost it. >> >> For those who are not familiar, in Mena / Hope Arkansas there are >> literally HUNDREDS OF SQUARE ACRES of FEMA trailers and RVs parked >> and >> rotting to pieces thanks to FEMA's lame ass efforts to aid Katrina >> victims. Logically, if they needed housing, it would have been as >> easy >> as requesting the volunteers on hand to organize a convoy of >> trucks to >> drive to Mena / Hope and pickup the trailers and deliver them to >> Adkins / Clinton, etc. BUT ALAS, FEMA is not logical in their >> response. >> >> I came away from the experience feeling REALLY good about the >> American >> Spirit, it is clearly alive and well with in our people, but VERY >> clearly not alive in our gov't. >> >> The long term effects of such high handedness by FEMA will be >> disastrous, those who would typically respond will become complacent >> and apathetic and will no longer respond, because after all the Govt >> will handle it right? Sad times America, sad times. >> >> Something needs to be done about this... >> >> God Bless those whom are in dire need and I pray that things change >> rapidly. Unfortunately the media crews that were on location had no >> interest in pointing out the FEMA blockade AGAINST relief efforts. >> >> -Mark Williams >> >> >> On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 09:30 -0600, Scottie Arnett wrote: >> >> >>> Sorry to reply to my own post, but we service the Macon County >>> Tennessee > area that was hardest hit. We have a POP there for dial-up, but > have not > entered that market with our wireless yet. >>> >>> Lots of destruction. The tornado set down and traveled 25 miles >>> or more > without ever lifting. Base ranged from 100 to 400 yards. Rated at > an F2 this > morning by whoever rates them. Most power and telephones had been > restored > as of late last night. >>> >>> Of little importance, none of our equipment was damaged. My heart >>> and > prayers to the folks that lost homes and loved ones. I know this > type of > tornadoes hit the mid west all the time, but we were not prepared > to see it > hit as hard as it did in Tennessee. Never been that bad here before. >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List >>> >>> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:22:08 -0600 >>> >>> >>>> Memphis T
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Without getting political...I'm not sure government is the right vehicle for this sort of job...no matter who is running the show. Jeff -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Unger Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:00 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tornado Mark, Thanks for your report. I'm sorry that FEMA does not seem to be focused on meeting the real needs that people have. On the other hand, I'm sure that the FEMA lockdown did a good job of keeping Al Quida terrorists from potentially entering the disaster area to cause trouble. I hope that our new President (whoever that may be) will prove to be a more compassionate leader who will be able to motivates FEMA (and for that mattter, our whole government) to once again focus on meeting the real human needs that people have. jack Mark Williams wrote: > Myself and many others responded to Adkins, Arkansas yesterday... > > There was a great outpouring of volunteers, equipment, and supplies. > Quite literally dump trucks, tractor trailers, and many more pickups > w/ trailers hauling in various dozers, back hoes, materials, food / > water etc. for clean up and disaster assistance. > > The FEMA administrators had the place in TOTAL lock down. They would > NOT allow assistance efforts to happen. > A phrase was coined ... that "the government is more focused on > protecting its rights to be government, than it is on assisting the > coordination of REAL assistance and aid." > > Frankly, that statement sums up the debacle that is FEMA response. > They completely HALTED a 100% volunteer relief effort! > > Then they requested that what was REALLY needed was CAMPING GEAR. > I nearly lost it. > > For those who are not familiar, in Mena / Hope Arkansas there are > literally HUNDREDS OF SQUARE ACRES of FEMA trailers and RVs parked and > rotting to pieces thanks to FEMA's lame ass efforts to aid Katrina > victims. Logically, if they needed housing, it would have been as easy > as requesting the volunteers on hand to organize a convoy of trucks to > drive to Mena / Hope and pickup the trailers and deliver them to > Adkins / Clinton, etc. BUT ALAS, FEMA is not logical in their > response. > > I came away from the experience feeling REALLY good about the American > Spirit, it is clearly alive and well with in our people, but VERY > clearly not alive in our gov't. > > The long term effects of such high handedness by FEMA will be > disastrous, those who would typically respond will become complacent > and apathetic and will no longer respond, because after all the Govt > will handle it right? Sad times America, sad times. > > Something needs to be done about this... > > God Bless those whom are in dire need and I pray that things change > rapidly. Unfortunately the media crews that were on location had no > interest in pointing out the FEMA blockade AGAINST relief efforts. > > -Mark Williams > > > On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 09:30 -0600, Scottie Arnett wrote: > > >> Sorry to reply to my own post, but we service the Macon County Tennessee area that was hardest hit. We have a POP there for dial-up, but have not entered that market with our wireless yet. >> >> Lots of destruction. The tornado set down and traveled 25 miles or more without ever lifting. Base ranged from 100 to 400 yards. Rated at an F2 this morning by whoever rates them. Most power and telephones had been restored as of late last night. >> >> Of little importance, none of our equipment was damaged. My heart and prayers to the folks that lost homes and loved ones. I know this type of tornadoes hit the mid west all the time, but we were not prepared to see it hit as hard as it did in Tennessee. Never been that bad here before. >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List >> >> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:22:08 -0600 >> >> >>> Memphis Tennessee, Tuesday: >>> http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/06/tornado-destroyed-t >>> wo-radio-towers-used-several-st/ >>> >>> Main tower hub for communications knocked down. >>> >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Reply-To: WISPA General List >>> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST >>> >>> >>>> I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. >>>> >>>> You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can >>>> be but
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Jack Unger wrote: > What make, model and height was the tower? It was unguyed, correct? It was a Universal HD8-100 (100' tower, unguyed). We have a dozen or more of these up, and have had for several years, and this is the first time we've had any incident like this. And a bunch of folks in town don't have roofs any longer, so don't hold it against Universal. They've been good towers, this one just had a bad day. Heck, we believe (on initial inspection) that about 2/3 of the sections will be usable as-is even though they fell down. http://images.bureau42.com/sa/blrv08/SANY0839.JPG <-- this section may not be usable, however http://images.bureau42.com/sa/blrv08/SANY0840.JPG <-- whoops We're infinitely grateful that, as far as we're aware, nobody was seriously hurt or killed by this spot of nasty weather. A few folks have unplanned sunroofs but that's it. David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
What and how much wind loading was on the tower? Normally even if you are at the rated wind load and things are properly built there is still a safety margin the engineers build in to a structural design. Thank You, Brian Webster -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David E. Smith Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 3:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tornado Okay, less FEMA politics and more disaster pictures. http://images.bureau42.com/sa/blrv08/SANY0837.JPG (This was from Tuesday evening. We were nowhere near any tornadoes, as far as I know, "just" 50-60mph winds.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
At least is wasn't your main tower!That sucks! Matt Larsen vistabeam.com David E. Smith wrote: > Okay, less FEMA politics and more disaster pictures. > > http://images.bureau42.com/sa/blrv08/SANY0837.JPG > > (This was from Tuesday evening. We were nowhere near any tornadoes, as far as > I know, "just" 50-60mph winds.) > > David Smith > MVN.net > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
David, What make, model and height was the tower? It was unguyed, correct? jack David E. Smith wrote: > Okay, less FEMA politics and more disaster pictures. > > http://images.bureau42.com/sa/blrv08/SANY0837.JPG > > (This was from Tuesday evening. We were nowhere near any tornadoes, as far as > I know, "just" 50-60mph winds.) > > David Smith > MVN.net > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -- Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 FCC License # PG-12-25133 Author of the Cisco Press Book - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" Vendor-Neutral Wireless Training-Troubleshooting-Consulting Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Okay, less FEMA politics and more disaster pictures. http://images.bureau42.com/sa/blrv08/SANY0837.JPG (This was from Tuesday evening. We were nowhere near any tornadoes, as far as I know, "just" 50-60mph winds.) David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Mark, Thanks for your report. I'm sorry that FEMA does not seem to be focused on meeting the real needs that people have. On the other hand, I'm sure that the FEMA lockdown did a good job of keeping Al Quida terrorists from potentially entering the disaster area to cause trouble. I hope that our new President (whoever that may be) will prove to be a more compassionate leader who will be able to motivates FEMA (and for that mattter, our whole government) to once again focus on meeting the real human needs that people have. jack Mark Williams wrote: > Myself and many others responded to Adkins, Arkansas yesterday... > > There was a great outpouring of volunteers, equipment, and supplies. > Quite literally dump trucks, tractor trailers, and many more > pickups w/ trailers hauling in various dozers, back hoes, materials, > food / water etc. for clean up and disaster assistance. > > The FEMA administrators had the place in TOTAL lock down. They would NOT > allow assistance efforts to happen. > A phrase was coined ... that "the government is more focused on > protecting its rights to be government, than it is > on assisting the coordination of REAL assistance and aid." > > Frankly, that statement sums up the debacle that is FEMA response. > They completely HALTED a 100% volunteer relief effort! > > Then they requested that what was REALLY needed was CAMPING GEAR. > I nearly lost it. > > For those who are not familiar, in Mena / Hope Arkansas there are > literally HUNDREDS OF SQUARE ACRES of FEMA trailers and RVs parked > and rotting to pieces thanks to FEMA's lame ass efforts to aid Katrina > victims. Logically, if they needed housing, it would have been as > easy as requesting the volunteers on hand to organize a convoy of trucks > to drive to Mena / Hope and pickup the trailers and deliver them > to Adkins / Clinton, etc. BUT ALAS, FEMA is not logical in their > response. > > I came away from the experience feeling REALLY good about the American > Spirit, it is clearly alive and well with in our people, but VERY > clearly not alive in our gov't. > > The long term effects of such high handedness by FEMA will be > disastrous, those who would typically respond will become complacent > and > apathetic and will no longer respond, because after all the Govt will > handle it right? Sad times America, sad times. > > Something needs to be done about this... > > God Bless those whom are in dire need and I pray that things change > rapidly. Unfortunately the media crews that were on location > had no interest in pointing out the FEMA blockade AGAINST relief > efforts. > > -Mark Williams > > > On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 09:30 -0600, Scottie Arnett wrote: > > >> Sorry to reply to my own post, but we service the Macon County Tennessee >> area that was hardest hit. We have a POP there for dial-up, but have not >> entered that market with our wireless yet. >> >> Lots of destruction. The tornado set down and traveled 25 miles or more >> without ever lifting. Base ranged from 100 to 400 yards. Rated at an F2 this >> morning by whoever rates them. Most power and telephones had been restored >> as of late last night. >> >> Of little importance, none of our equipment was damaged. My heart and >> prayers to the folks that lost homes and loved ones. I know this type of >> tornadoes hit the mid west all the time, but we were not prepared to see it >> hit as hard as it did in Tennessee. Never been that bad here before. >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List >> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:22:08 -0600 >> >> >>> Memphis Tennessee, Tuesday: >>> http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/06/tornado-destroyed-two-radio-towers-used-several-st/ >>> >>> Main tower hub for communications knocked down. >>> >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Reply-To: WISPA General List >>> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST >>> >>> I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can be but I have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting tower or a multi story building. Does this happen? Walter Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WI
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
We witnessed this same thing while helping Mac Dearman and crew after Katrina. FEMA is definitely a more of a disservice to those in need than it is for providing assistance. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Williams Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 12:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tornado Myself and many others responded to Adkins, Arkansas yesterday... There was a great outpouring of volunteers, equipment, and supplies. Quite literally dump trucks, tractor trailers, and many more pickups w/ trailers hauling in various dozers, back hoes, materials, food / water etc. for clean up and disaster assistance. The FEMA administrators had the place in TOTAL lock down. They would NOT allow assistance efforts to happen. A phrase was coined ... that "the government is more focused on protecting its rights to be government, than it is on assisting the coordination of REAL assistance and aid." Frankly, that statement sums up the debacle that is FEMA response. They completely HALTED a 100% volunteer relief effort! Then they requested that what was REALLY needed was CAMPING GEAR. I nearly lost it. For those who are not familiar, in Mena / Hope Arkansas there are literally HUNDREDS OF SQUARE ACRES of FEMA trailers and RVs parked and rotting to pieces thanks to FEMA's lame ass efforts to aid Katrina victims. Logically, if they needed housing, it would have been as easy as requesting the volunteers on hand to organize a convoy of trucks to drive to Mena / Hope and pickup the trailers and deliver them to Adkins / Clinton, etc. BUT ALAS, FEMA is not logical in their response. I came away from the experience feeling REALLY good about the American Spirit, it is clearly alive and well with in our people, but VERY clearly not alive in our gov't. The long term effects of such high handedness by FEMA will be disastrous, those who would typically respond will become complacent and apathetic and will no longer respond, because after all the Govt will handle it right? Sad times America, sad times. Something needs to be done about this... God Bless those whom are in dire need and I pray that things change rapidly. Unfortunately the media crews that were on location had no interest in pointing out the FEMA blockade AGAINST relief efforts. -Mark Williams On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 09:30 -0600, Scottie Arnett wrote: > Sorry to reply to my own post, but we service the Macon County Tennessee area that was hardest hit. We have a POP there for dial-up, but have not entered that market with our wireless yet. > > Lots of destruction. The tornado set down and traveled 25 miles or more without ever lifting. Base ranged from 100 to 400 yards. Rated at an F2 this morning by whoever rates them. Most power and telephones had been restored as of late last night. > > Of little importance, none of our equipment was damaged. My heart and prayers to the folks that lost homes and loved ones. I know this type of tornadoes hit the mid west all the time, but we were not prepared to see it hit as hard as it did in Tennessee. Never been that bad here before. > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:22:08 -0600 > > >Memphis Tennessee, Tuesday: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/06/tornado-destroyed-two-radio -towers-used-several-st/ > > > >Main tower hub for communications knocked down. > > > > > >-- Original Message -- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Reply-To: WISPA General List > >Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST > > > >>I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. > >> > >>You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can be but I > >>have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting tower or a multi story > >> building. Does this happen? > >> > >>Walter > >> > >> > >>Walter W. Stumpf Jr. > >>Xanadu Group Inc. > >>179 Statesville Quarry Road > >>Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA > >>973-702-3899 > >>fax 775-667-1995 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>**Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > >>(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300 025 > >>48) > >> > >> > >>-- -- > >>WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>http://signup.wispa.org/ > >>-
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Myself and many others responded to Adkins, Arkansas yesterday... There was a great outpouring of volunteers, equipment, and supplies. Quite literally dump trucks, tractor trailers, and many more pickups w/ trailers hauling in various dozers, back hoes, materials, food / water etc. for clean up and disaster assistance. The FEMA administrators had the place in TOTAL lock down. They would NOT allow assistance efforts to happen. A phrase was coined ... that "the government is more focused on protecting its rights to be government, than it is on assisting the coordination of REAL assistance and aid." Frankly, that statement sums up the debacle that is FEMA response. They completely HALTED a 100% volunteer relief effort! Then they requested that what was REALLY needed was CAMPING GEAR. I nearly lost it. For those who are not familiar, in Mena / Hope Arkansas there are literally HUNDREDS OF SQUARE ACRES of FEMA trailers and RVs parked and rotting to pieces thanks to FEMA's lame ass efforts to aid Katrina victims. Logically, if they needed housing, it would have been as easy as requesting the volunteers on hand to organize a convoy of trucks to drive to Mena / Hope and pickup the trailers and deliver them to Adkins / Clinton, etc. BUT ALAS, FEMA is not logical in their response. I came away from the experience feeling REALLY good about the American Spirit, it is clearly alive and well with in our people, but VERY clearly not alive in our gov't. The long term effects of such high handedness by FEMA will be disastrous, those who would typically respond will become complacent and apathetic and will no longer respond, because after all the Govt will handle it right? Sad times America, sad times. Something needs to be done about this... God Bless those whom are in dire need and I pray that things change rapidly. Unfortunately the media crews that were on location had no interest in pointing out the FEMA blockade AGAINST relief efforts. -Mark Williams On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 09:30 -0600, Scottie Arnett wrote: > Sorry to reply to my own post, but we service the Macon County Tennessee area > that was hardest hit. We have a POP there for dial-up, but have not entered > that market with our wireless yet. > > Lots of destruction. The tornado set down and traveled 25 miles or more > without ever lifting. Base ranged from 100 to 400 yards. Rated at an F2 this > morning by whoever rates them. Most power and telephones had been restored as > of late last night. > > Of little importance, none of our equipment was damaged. My heart and prayers > to the folks that lost homes and loved ones. I know this type of tornadoes > hit the mid west all the time, but we were not prepared to see it hit as hard > as it did in Tennessee. Never been that bad here before. > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:22:08 -0600 > > >Memphis Tennessee, Tuesday: > >http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/06/tornado-destroyed-two-radio-towers-used-several-st/ > > > >Main tower hub for communications knocked down. > > > > > >-- Original Message -- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Reply-To: WISPA General List > >Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST > > > >>I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. > >> > >>You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can be but I > >> > >>have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting tower or a multi > >>story > >> building. Does this happen? > >> > >>Walter > >> > >> > >>Walter W. Stumpf Jr. > >>Xanadu Group Inc. > >>179 Statesville Quarry Road > >>Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA > >>973-702-3899 > >>fax 775-667-1995 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>**Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > >>(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 > >>48) > >> > >> > >> > >>WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >>http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > >> > >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> > >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >>--- > >>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > >> > >> > > > >Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. > >Check out www.info-ed.com for information. > > > > > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >http://lists.wispa.org/m
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Sorry to reply to my own post, but we service the Macon County Tennessee area that was hardest hit. We have a POP there for dial-up, but have not entered that market with our wireless yet. Lots of destruction. The tornado set down and traveled 25 miles or more without ever lifting. Base ranged from 100 to 400 yards. Rated at an F2 this morning by whoever rates them. Most power and telephones had been restored as of late last night. Of little importance, none of our equipment was damaged. My heart and prayers to the folks that lost homes and loved ones. I know this type of tornadoes hit the mid west all the time, but we were not prepared to see it hit as hard as it did in Tennessee. Never been that bad here before. -- Original Message -- From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], WISPA General List Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:22:08 -0600 >Memphis Tennessee, Tuesday: >http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/06/tornado-destroyed-two-radio-towers-used-several-st/ > >Main tower hub for communications knocked down. > > >-- Original Message -- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: WISPA General List >Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST > >>I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. >> >>You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can be but I >>have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting tower or a multi >>story >> building. Does this happen? >> >>Walter >> >> >>Walter W. Stumpf Jr. >>Xanadu Group Inc. >>179 Statesville Quarry Road >>Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA >>973-702-3899 >>fax 775-667-1995 >> >> >> >> >>**Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. >>(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 >>48) >> >> >> >>WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>--- >>[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] >> >> > >Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. >Check out www.info-ed.com for information. > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
Memphis Tennessee, Tuesday: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/06/tornado-destroyed-two-radio-towers-used-several-st/ Main tower hub for communications knocked down. -- Original Message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: WISPA General List Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 08:53:25 EST >I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. > >You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can be but I >have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting tower or a multi story > building. Does this happen? > >Walter > > >Walter W. Stumpf Jr. >Xanadu Group Inc. >179 Statesville Quarry Road >Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA >973-702-3899 >fax 775-667-1995 > > > > >**Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. >(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 >48) > > > >WISPA Wants You! Join today! >http://signup.wispa.org/ > > >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >--- >[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] > > Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth. Check out www.info-ed.com for information. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
"Leave the tools, we're out of here..." http://www.wirelessestimator.com/t_content.cfm?pagename=Breaking%20News Rafman On Feb 7, 2008 9:53 AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. > > You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can be but > I > have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting tower or a multi > story > building. Does this happen? > > Walter > > > Walter W. Stumpf Jr. > Xanadu Group Inc. > 179 Statesville Quarry Road > Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA > 973-702-3899 > fax 775-667-1995 > -- - http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Rafmanne <-- Appomattox Tower Project Construction videos Article: http://www.tic.virginia.gov/pdfs/pressreleases/New%20Internet%20service%20launched%20by%20BridgeMAXX%20in%20Appomattox.pdf =-=-=-= "No job is so important, and no service is so urgent that we cannot take the time to do it safely." -- Ernie Crabb - AT&T Long Lines - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xiZxQV-jFI WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Tornado
http://www.wirelessestimator.com/breaking_news.cfm Two towers, one was brand new, and not fully utilized. Mike -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 7:53 AM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Tornado I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can be but I have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting tower or a multi story building. Does this happen? Walter Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003 00025 48) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Tornado
I have a question for someone in the 'T' zones. You see the destructive force of them and how devastating they can be but I have never seen/heard of them wiping out a broadcasting tower or a multi story building. Does this happen? Walter Walter W. Stumpf Jr. Xanadu Group Inc. 179 Statesville Quarry Road Lafayette NJ 07848-3128 USA 973-702-3899 fax 775-667-1995 **Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300025 48) WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
