Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Well, you need equipment that can handle it. Just because you have a fiber port on a Cisco (just pulling a number out of the air here) 2600, doesn't mean the router can handle the packets per second. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "RickG" Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 9:01 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents > OK. So, it appears most feel that it can be handled? I suppose the > fiber connection I saw drop at a large MTU was due to little to no > QOS? > So QOS will fix everything and we really wont have to worry about this? > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Greg wrote: >> The politics of P2P aside, you'll have to handle that with bandwidth >> sharing >> queues and traffic shaping. >> >> Greg >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:47 PM, RickG wrote: >> >>> Nat'ed? Yes, but not for much longer. >>> Usage based billing? Not yet but its coming. >>> Network handle it? Interesting question. I've seen fiber connections >>> drop to its knees with torrents. How you gonna handle that? >>> -RickG >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Greg wrote: >>> > Is that client nat'ed or does he have his own IP address so you'll >>> > know >>> the >>> > cease and desist order is for him when it comes? Is your billing usage >>> > based? Can your network handle folks doing bittorrent? I think if all >>> > answers are "yes" then you could consider allowing it. If any answers >>> > are >>> > "no" then you'd have to say "no". >>> > >>> > Greg >>> > >>> > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:24 AM, RickG wrote: >>> > >>> >> Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer >>> >> demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I >>> >> being over >>> >> zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? >>> >> -RickG >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >> >>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >> >>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > >>> >>> > >>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> > >>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> > >>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
There are far too many legit services running on BitTorrent to block it. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: "RickG" Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2010 11:54 PM To: "WISPA General List" Subject: [WISPA] bit torrents > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > being over > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > -RickG > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
What I mean is that I'm so busy taking care of things I dont have time review, implement, operate a metered billing solution. Like everything else, I'm sure it takes time & resources. Note: My comment about usage based billing revolves around the system I put in place back in 1997 with the help of an Allot box. That was when I ran a different ISP. The ISP I run now is much bigger. Thanks! -RickG On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Roger Howard wrote: > What do you mean when you say "The problem is getting there." > > I have always disclosed my transfer limits on my website > http://g5i.net/internet.php > > Up until recently, I have not even begun to enforce them. But now it > is necessary. I have started IP accounting on my Cisco border router > and am collecting the data into a mysql database. > > I will start to invoice the customers who go over. The way I look at > it, these are pretty big limits, and those handful of people who are > going over all the time, will either leave my network, because they > don't like paying the overages, which will be a good thing because I'm > making a loss on them anyway. OR They will reduce their usage, OR they > will pay me more. > > Win, Win, Win. > > Thanks, > Roger > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 8:21 PM, RickG wrote: >> I agree and have been saying that since 1997! The problem is, getting there. >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Roger Howard wrote: >>> I think the solution is to cap the connections to x Gb per month. Our >>> plans start at 30Gb of transfer per month. Then charge per Gb after >>> that. >>> >>> People's usage is just going to go up and up, with more and more >>> streaming video, torrents, gaming etc. My opinion is, eventually you >>> will NOT be able to keep up trying to provide unlimited service, >>> unless you have sky high prices. I think caps and metered usage is >>> inevitable, even for the big guys. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Roger >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Josh Luthman >>> wrote: >>>> Only 20 connections? I've found 75 to be a good number (Butch put that in >>>> place ages ago and I've been the only person in 3 years to get up to that). >>>> >>>> I'm looking at an SM now from a customer that called in this >>>> morning...they're using 43 connections. It's one (wireless) laptop on a >>>> Linksys into the SM. Each connection is port 80 or 443 except one - 4500 >>>> (Cisco VP?) >>>> >>>> Josh Luthman >>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>> Suite 1337 >>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>> >>>> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue >>>> that counts.” >>>> --- Winston Churchill >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Mike wrote: >>>> >>>>> They can do what they want, with the following caveats: >>>>> >>>>> They don't open more than 20 connections. >>>>> >>>>> The overhead on the pipe allows, while being subject to packet delays if >>>>> the >>>>> thread is long duration, and the overhead IS needed. >>>>> >>>>> I think the key to network control is to NEVER let ANY user impact the >>>>> pipe >>>>> at the peril of others. >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> -Original Message- >>>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>>>> Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott >>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Cc: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents >>>>> >>>>> I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* >>>>> >>>>> But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting >>>>> other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads >>>>> so they don't piss off thier neighbors. >>>>> >>>>> My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting >>>>> so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... >>>>> Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading >>&g
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
What do you mean when you say "The problem is getting there." I have always disclosed my transfer limits on my website http://g5i.net/internet.php Up until recently, I have not even begun to enforce them. But now it is necessary. I have started IP accounting on my Cisco border router and am collecting the data into a mysql database. I will start to invoice the customers who go over. The way I look at it, these are pretty big limits, and those handful of people who are going over all the time, will either leave my network, because they don't like paying the overages, which will be a good thing because I'm making a loss on them anyway. OR They will reduce their usage, OR they will pay me more. Win, Win, Win. Thanks, Roger On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 8:21 PM, RickG wrote: > I agree and have been saying that since 1997! The problem is, getting there. > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Roger Howard wrote: >> I think the solution is to cap the connections to x Gb per month. Our >> plans start at 30Gb of transfer per month. Then charge per Gb after >> that. >> >> People's usage is just going to go up and up, with more and more >> streaming video, torrents, gaming etc. My opinion is, eventually you >> will NOT be able to keep up trying to provide unlimited service, >> unless you have sky high prices. I think caps and metered usage is >> inevitable, even for the big guys. >> >> Thanks, >> Roger >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Josh Luthman >> wrote: >>> Only 20 connections? I've found 75 to be a good number (Butch put that in >>> place ages ago and I've been the only person in 3 years to get up to that). >>> >>> I'm looking at an SM now from a customer that called in this >>> morning...they're using 43 connections. It's one (wireless) laptop on a >>> Linksys into the SM. Each connection is port 80 or 443 except one - 4500 >>> (Cisco VP?) >>> >>> Josh Luthman >>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>> 1100 Wayne St >>> Suite 1337 >>> Troy, OH 45373 >>> >>> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue >>> that counts.” >>> --- Winston Churchill >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Mike wrote: >>> >>>> They can do what they want, with the following caveats: >>>> >>>> They don't open more than 20 connections. >>>> >>>> The overhead on the pipe allows, while being subject to packet delays if >>>> the >>>> thread is long duration, and the overhead IS needed. >>>> >>>> I think the key to network control is to NEVER let ANY user impact the pipe >>>> at the peril of others. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>>> Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott >>>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM >>>> To: WISPA General List >>>> Cc: WISPA General List >>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents >>>> >>>> I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* >>>> >>>> But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting >>>> other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads >>>> so they don't piss off thier neighbors. >>>> >>>> My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting >>>> so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... >>>> Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading >>>> movies etc. >>>> >>>> He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the >>>> group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure >>>> felt bad) >>>> >>>> ryan >>>> >>>> On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: >>>> >>>> > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer >>>> > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I >>>> > being over >>>> > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? >>>> > -RickG >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > --- >&
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Yes, I've already experienced this with my MT firewall. But, as you know, ISPs are always fighting the new bottleneck whether its at the core or the edge, we just move it around. The never ending battle. Lol, I just had an email come in from a gamer on my network: "Rick, Just wanted to drop you a note saying the network performance is amazing. I'm loving this. My friends, on cable in Lexington, are envious of my net access while we play Warcraft. I'm smokin them on real-time game play..their latency is now an issue. LOL! Thank you for all your hard work and commitment to the network you've developed here. Thanks again, Cory This is what I live for - speed! Thats why file-sharing bothers me so. It goes against that goal. What is it that gets advertised on every ISP commercial and that everyone talks about? SPEED! Thats what they want. I've had people say they'll be glad to have a serious talk with their torrent running neighbors. The way I look at it is this - you cant let 18 wheelers on the Indy500 with the racecars and expect a good race, they just get in the way. On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: > QOS fixes up the bandwidth you have. Makes things run smoother with the > resources available. It does not conjour additional bandwidth. > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue > that counts.” > --- Winston Churchill > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 10:01 PM, RickG wrote: > >> OK. So, it appears most feel that it can be handled? I suppose the >> fiber connection I saw drop at a large MTU was due to little to no >> QOS? >> So QOS will fix everything and we really wont have to worry about this? >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Greg wrote: >> > The politics of P2P aside, you'll have to handle that with bandwidth >> sharing >> > queues and traffic shaping. >> > >> > Greg >> > >> > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:47 PM, RickG wrote: >> > >> >> Nat'ed? Yes, but not for much longer. >> >> Usage based billing? Not yet but its coming. >> >> Network handle it? Interesting question. I've seen fiber connections >> >> drop to its knees with torrents. How you gonna handle that? >> >> -RickG >> >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Greg wrote: >> >> > Is that client nat'ed or does he have his own IP address so you'll >> know >> >> the >> >> > cease and desist order is for him when it comes? Is your billing usage >> >> > based? Can your network handle folks doing bittorrent? I think if all >> >> > answers are "yes" then you could consider allowing it. If any answers >> are >> >> > "no" then you'd have to say "no". >> >> > >> >> > Greg >> >> > >> >> > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:24 AM, RickG wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer >> >> >> demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I >> >> >> being over >> >> >> zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? >> >> >> -RickG >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> > >> >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> > >> >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > >> >> > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
QOS fixes up the bandwidth you have. Makes things run smoother with the resources available. It does not conjour additional bandwidth. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 10:01 PM, RickG wrote: > OK. So, it appears most feel that it can be handled? I suppose the > fiber connection I saw drop at a large MTU was due to little to no > QOS? > So QOS will fix everything and we really wont have to worry about this? > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Greg wrote: > > The politics of P2P aside, you'll have to handle that with bandwidth > sharing > > queues and traffic shaping. > > > > Greg > > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:47 PM, RickG wrote: > > > >> Nat'ed? Yes, but not for much longer. > >> Usage based billing? Not yet but its coming. > >> Network handle it? Interesting question. I've seen fiber connections > >> drop to its knees with torrents. How you gonna handle that? > >> -RickG > >> > >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Greg wrote: > >> > Is that client nat'ed or does he have his own IP address so you'll > know > >> the > >> > cease and desist order is for him when it comes? Is your billing usage > >> > based? Can your network handle folks doing bittorrent? I think if all > >> > answers are "yes" then you could consider allowing it. If any answers > are > >> > "no" then you'd have to say "no". > >> > > >> > Greg > >> > > >> > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:24 AM, RickG wrote: > >> > > >> >> Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > >> >> demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > >> >> being over > >> >> zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > >> >> -RickG > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> >> > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> >> > >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> >> > >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> > > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > >> > > >> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
OK. So, it appears most feel that it can be handled? I suppose the fiber connection I saw drop at a large MTU was due to little to no QOS? So QOS will fix everything and we really wont have to worry about this? On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:57 PM, Greg wrote: > The politics of P2P aside, you'll have to handle that with bandwidth sharing > queues and traffic shaping. > > Greg > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:47 PM, RickG wrote: > >> Nat'ed? Yes, but not for much longer. >> Usage based billing? Not yet but its coming. >> Network handle it? Interesting question. I've seen fiber connections >> drop to its knees with torrents. How you gonna handle that? >> -RickG >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Greg wrote: >> > Is that client nat'ed or does he have his own IP address so you'll know >> the >> > cease and desist order is for him when it comes? Is your billing usage >> > based? Can your network handle folks doing bittorrent? I think if all >> > answers are "yes" then you could consider allowing it. If any answers are >> > "no" then you'd have to say "no". >> > >> > Greg >> > >> > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:24 AM, RickG wrote: >> > >> >> Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer >> >> demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I >> >> being over >> >> zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? >> >> -RickG >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > >> >> > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
The politics of P2P aside, you'll have to handle that with bandwidth sharing queues and traffic shaping. Greg On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 9:47 PM, RickG wrote: > Nat'ed? Yes, but not for much longer. > Usage based billing? Not yet but its coming. > Network handle it? Interesting question. I've seen fiber connections > drop to its knees with torrents. How you gonna handle that? > -RickG > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Greg wrote: > > Is that client nat'ed or does he have his own IP address so you'll know > the > > cease and desist order is for him when it comes? Is your billing usage > > based? Can your network handle folks doing bittorrent? I think if all > > answers are "yes" then you could consider allowing it. If any answers are > > "no" then you'd have to say "no". > > > > Greg > > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:24 AM, RickG wrote: > > > >> Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > >> demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > >> being over > >> zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > >> -RickG > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! > >> http://signup.wispa.org/ > >> > >> > > >> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > >> > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
I agree and have been saying that since 1997! The problem is, getting there. On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:51 PM, Roger Howard wrote: > I think the solution is to cap the connections to x Gb per month. Our > plans start at 30Gb of transfer per month. Then charge per Gb after > that. > > People's usage is just going to go up and up, with more and more > streaming video, torrents, gaming etc. My opinion is, eventually you > will NOT be able to keep up trying to provide unlimited service, > unless you have sky high prices. I think caps and metered usage is > inevitable, even for the big guys. > > Thanks, > Roger > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Josh Luthman > wrote: >> Only 20 connections? I've found 75 to be a good number (Butch put that in >> place ages ago and I've been the only person in 3 years to get up to that). >> >> I'm looking at an SM now from a customer that called in this >> morning...they're using 43 connections. It's one (wireless) laptop on a >> Linksys into the SM. Each connection is port 80 or 443 except one - 4500 >> (Cisco VP?) >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue >> that counts.” >> --- Winston Churchill >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Mike wrote: >> >>> They can do what they want, with the following caveats: >>> >>> They don't open more than 20 connections. >>> >>> The overhead on the pipe allows, while being subject to packet delays if >>> the >>> thread is long duration, and the overhead IS needed. >>> >>> I think the key to network control is to NEVER let ANY user impact the pipe >>> at the peril of others. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >>> Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott >>> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM >>> To: WISPA General List >>> Cc: WISPA General List >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents >>> >>> I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* >>> >>> But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting >>> other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads >>> so they don't piss off thier neighbors. >>> >>> My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting >>> so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... >>> Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading >>> movies etc. >>> >>> He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the >>> group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure >>> felt bad) >>> >>> ryan >>> >>> On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: >>> >>> > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer >>> > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I >>> > being over >>> > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? >>> > -RickG >>> > >>> > >>> > --- >>> > --- >>> > --- >>> > --- >>> > >>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> > --- >>> > --- >>> > --- >>> > --- >>> > >>> > >>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> > >>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> > >>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.wispa.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >>> >>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>> >>> Archives: http://lists
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Are you controlling connections at the AP? On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Mike wrote: > They can do what they want, with the following caveats: > > They don't open more than 20 connections. > > The overhead on the pipe allows, while being subject to packet delays if the > thread is long duration, and the overhead IS needed. > > I think the key to network control is to NEVER let ANY user impact the pipe > at the peril of others. > > Mike > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM > To: WISPA General List > Cc: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents > > I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* > > But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting > other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads > so they don't piss off thier neighbors. > > My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting > so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... > Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading > movies etc. > > He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the > group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure > felt bad) > > ryan > > On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: > >> Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer >> demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I >> being over >> zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? >> -RickG >> >> >> --- >> --- >> --- >> --- >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> --- >> --- >> --- >> --- >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Story of my life! Except the MS Dad part :) On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 12:39 PM, D. Ryan Spott wrote: > I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* > > But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting > other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads > so they don't piss off thier neighbors. > > My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting > so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... > Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading > movies etc. > > He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the > group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure > felt bad) > > ryan > > On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: > >> Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer >> demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I >> being over >> zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? >> -RickG >> >> >> --- >> --- >> --- >> --- >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> --- >> --- >> --- >> --- >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Nat'ed? Yes, but not for much longer. Usage based billing? Not yet but its coming. Network handle it? Interesting question. I've seen fiber connections drop to its knees with torrents. How you gonna handle that? -RickG On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Greg wrote: > Is that client nat'ed or does he have his own IP address so you'll know the > cease and desist order is for him when it comes? Is your billing usage > based? Can your network handle folks doing bittorrent? I think if all > answers are "yes" then you could consider allowing it. If any answers are > "no" then you'd have to say "no". > > Greg > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:24 AM, RickG wrote: > >> Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer >> demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I >> being over >> zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? >> -RickG >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Ya, I had one customer that is big on WOW. He didnt complain when I asked him about it. He said he coudl get it another way. I assume normal ftp. -RickG On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:27 AM, Justin Wilson wrote: > Several companies are now using torrents to distribute stuff. World Of > Warcraft is one. Gets kind of touchy when you have customers paying for a > service, such as WOW, and are unable to get updates to play. Everything I > ever do I give torrent traffic a lower priority and it¹s own global que. > The download is what they really need, so the upload gets throttled pretty > heavily. This fits in well with the ³no server² rule on most networks > because the customer really is not running a server. They are connecting to > Bit Torrent to download. Granted, most torrent clients are setup to share > what has been downloaded, but if the upload is throttled or the customer is > told not to share then it just becomes FTP with a bunch of connections. The > connections can be limited as well. > > The last patch I downloaded for an online game was 145 megs. I was able > to get much better speed using a torrent than I would have if I would have > used FTP or HTTP. > > Justin > > -- > Justin Wilson > CCNA CCNT Mikrotik Advanced > http://j2sw.mtin.net/blog > > > > From: RickG > Reply-To: WISPA General List > Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:54:45 -0500 > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] bit torrents > > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > being over > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > -RickG > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Thanks again for the feedback. I've never used torrents for my Mikrotik updates. -RickG On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 12:58 AM, Robert West wrote: > We allow but they can't run a server, as in NO sharing. But "allowing" > means no 24 hour downloading. > > Can't get around torrents, even Mikrotik has their updates via torrent. > > Bob- > > > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of RickG > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:55 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] bit torrents > > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > being over > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > -RickG > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
And you would be one of those customers I'd accommodate. Your needs are way above average. I do have some techies on my network and I work with them. Most of them are happy if their Xboxes work well. I am of the opinion the entire human gene pool needs a little chlorine. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 4:11 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents Surprised that 20 connections works for you. I hit 75 with just my laptop open - just simply SSH, Winbox, bg services like Dropbox and Whatpulse then my browsing habits which include many many tabs in 2-3 browsers. I typically see 5-15 when a user requests a webpage. If it works it works, if your customers are happy that's well above what anyone can ask for. 90% is outstanding. Try pleasing 90% of your family for dinner plans, where to meet for Christmas, etc. These people are in a similar gene pool, too! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." --- Winston Churchill On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Mike wrote: > Well, yeah, 20 connections. If they were shorter duration, I'd allow more. > Most software is polite enough to recognize the limitations and adapt. > > I've never set mine higher than 20 globally, and adjust by peer if they ask > me. > > What is the maximum thread count you've ever seen on a web page opening? > If > I can make web pages load real fast, and let grandma upload her pictures to > the grandkids and get her email, I've made 90% of my customers extremely > happy. The other 10% will have to adapt or live with it. I guess by > nature > of being rural broadband and wireless, I've engineered for the bursty > activity to rule. > > Mike > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Josh Luthman > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:30 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents > > Only 20 connections? I've found 75 to be a good number (Butch put that in > place ages ago and I've been the only person in 3 years to get up to that). > > I'm looking at an SM now from a customer that called in this > morning...they're using 43 connections. It's one (wireless) laptop on a > Linksys into the SM. Each connection is port 80 or 443 except one - 4500 > (Cisco VP?) > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue > that counts." > --- Winston Churchill > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Mike wrote: > > > They can do what they want, with the following caveats: > > > > They don't open more than 20 connections. > > > > The overhead on the pipe allows, while being subject to packet delays if > > the > > thread is long duration, and the overhead IS needed. > > > > I think the key to network control is to NEVER let ANY user impact the > pipe > > at the peril of others. > > > > Mike > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott > > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM > > To: WISPA General List > > Cc: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents > > > > I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* > > > > But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting > > other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads > > so they don't piss off thier neighbors. > > > > My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting > > so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... > > Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading > > movies etc. > > > > He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the > > group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure > > felt bad) > > > > ryan > > > > On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: > > > > > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > > > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > > > being over > > > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > >
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Surprised that 20 connections works for you. I hit 75 with just my laptop open - just simply SSH, Winbox, bg services like Dropbox and Whatpulse then my browsing habits which include many many tabs in 2-3 browsers. I typically see 5-15 when a user requests a webpage. If it works it works, if your customers are happy that's well above what anyone can ask for. 90% is outstanding. Try pleasing 90% of your family for dinner plans, where to meet for Christmas, etc. These people are in a similar gene pool, too! Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Mike wrote: > Well, yeah, 20 connections. If they were shorter duration, I'd allow more. > Most software is polite enough to recognize the limitations and adapt. > > I've never set mine higher than 20 globally, and adjust by peer if they ask > me. > > What is the maximum thread count you've ever seen on a web page opening? > If > I can make web pages load real fast, and let grandma upload her pictures to > the grandkids and get her email, I've made 90% of my customers extremely > happy. The other 10% will have to adapt or live with it. I guess by > nature > of being rural broadband and wireless, I've engineered for the bursty > activity to rule. > > Mike > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of Josh Luthman > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:30 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents > > Only 20 connections? I've found 75 to be a good number (Butch put that in > place ages ago and I've been the only person in 3 years to get up to that). > > I'm looking at an SM now from a customer that called in this > morning...they're using 43 connections. It's one (wireless) laptop on a > Linksys into the SM. Each connection is port 80 or 443 except one - 4500 > (Cisco VP?) > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue > that counts." > --- Winston Churchill > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Mike wrote: > > > They can do what they want, with the following caveats: > > > > They don't open more than 20 connections. > > > > The overhead on the pipe allows, while being subject to packet delays if > > the > > thread is long duration, and the overhead IS needed. > > > > I think the key to network control is to NEVER let ANY user impact the > pipe > > at the peril of others. > > > > Mike > > > > -Original Message- > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > > Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott > > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM > > To: WISPA General List > > Cc: WISPA General List > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents > > > > I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* > > > > But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting > > other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads > > so they don't piss off thier neighbors. > > > > My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting > > so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... > > Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading > > movies etc. > > > > He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the > > group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure > > felt bad) > > > > ryan > > > > On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: > > > > > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > > > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > > > being over > > > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > > > -RickG > > > > > > > > > --- > > > --- > > > --- > > > --- > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > --- > > > --- > > > --- > > > --- > > > > > > > > >
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Well, yeah, 20 connections. If they were shorter duration, I'd allow more. Most software is polite enough to recognize the limitations and adapt. I've never set mine higher than 20 globally, and adjust by peer if they ask me. What is the maximum thread count you've ever seen on a web page opening? If I can make web pages load real fast, and let grandma upload her pictures to the grandkids and get her email, I've made 90% of my customers extremely happy. The other 10% will have to adapt or live with it. I guess by nature of being rural broadband and wireless, I've engineered for the bursty activity to rule. Mike -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 3:30 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents Only 20 connections? I've found 75 to be a good number (Butch put that in place ages ago and I've been the only person in 3 years to get up to that). I'm looking at an SM now from a customer that called in this morning...they're using 43 connections. It's one (wireless) laptop on a Linksys into the SM. Each connection is port 80 or 443 except one - 4500 (Cisco VP?) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 "Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts." --- Winston Churchill On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Mike wrote: > They can do what they want, with the following caveats: > > They don't open more than 20 connections. > > The overhead on the pipe allows, while being subject to packet delays if > the > thread is long duration, and the overhead IS needed. > > I think the key to network control is to NEVER let ANY user impact the pipe > at the peril of others. > > Mike > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM > To: WISPA General List > Cc: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents > > I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* > > But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting > other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads > so they don't piss off thier neighbors. > > My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting > so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... > Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading > movies etc. > > He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the > group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure > felt bad) > > ryan > > On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: > > > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > > being over > > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > > -RickG > > > > > > --- > > --- > > --- > > --- > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > --- > > --- > > --- > > --- > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ --
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
I think the solution is to cap the connections to x Gb per month. Our plans start at 30Gb of transfer per month. Then charge per Gb after that. People's usage is just going to go up and up, with more and more streaming video, torrents, gaming etc. My opinion is, eventually you will NOT be able to keep up trying to provide unlimited service, unless you have sky high prices. I think caps and metered usage is inevitable, even for the big guys. Thanks, Roger On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: > Only 20 connections? I've found 75 to be a good number (Butch put that in > place ages ago and I've been the only person in 3 years to get up to that). > > I'm looking at an SM now from a customer that called in this > morning...they're using 43 connections. It's one (wireless) laptop on a > Linksys into the SM. Each connection is port 80 or 443 except one - 4500 > (Cisco VP?) > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue > that counts.” > --- Winston Churchill > > > On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Mike wrote: > >> They can do what they want, with the following caveats: >> >> They don't open more than 20 connections. >> >> The overhead on the pipe allows, while being subject to packet delays if >> the >> thread is long duration, and the overhead IS needed. >> >> I think the key to network control is to NEVER let ANY user impact the pipe >> at the peril of others. >> >> Mike >> >> -Original Message- >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On >> Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott >> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Cc: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents >> >> I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* >> >> But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting >> other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads >> so they don't piss off thier neighbors. >> >> My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting >> so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... >> Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading >> movies etc. >> >> He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the >> group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure >> felt bad) >> >> ryan >> >> On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: >> >> > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer >> > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I >> > being over >> > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? >> > -RickG >> > >> > >> > --- >> > --- >> > --- >> > --- >> > >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> > http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > --- >> > --- >> > --- >> > --- >> > >> > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Only 20 connections? I've found 75 to be a good number (Butch put that in place ages ago and I've been the only person in 3 years to get up to that). I'm looking at an SM now from a customer that called in this morning...they're using 43 connections. It's one (wireless) laptop on a Linksys into the SM. Each connection is port 80 or 443 except one - 4500 (Cisco VP?) Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” --- Winston Churchill On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Mike wrote: > They can do what they want, with the following caveats: > > They don't open more than 20 connections. > > The overhead on the pipe allows, while being subject to packet delays if > the > thread is long duration, and the overhead IS needed. > > I think the key to network control is to NEVER let ANY user impact the pipe > at the peril of others. > > Mike > > -Original Message- > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On > Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott > Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM > To: WISPA General List > Cc: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents > > I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* > > But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting > other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads > so they don't piss off thier neighbors. > > My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting > so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... > Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading > movies etc. > > He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the > group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure > felt bad) > > ryan > > On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: > > > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > > being over > > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > > -RickG > > > > > > --- > > --- > > --- > > --- > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > --- > > --- > > --- > > --- > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
They can do what they want, with the following caveats: They don't open more than 20 connections. The overhead on the pipe allows, while being subject to packet delays if the thread is long duration, and the overhead IS needed. I think the key to network control is to NEVER let ANY user impact the pipe at the peril of others. Mike -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of D. Ryan Spott Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 11:40 AM To: WISPA General List Cc: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] bit torrents I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads so they don't piss off thier neighbors. My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading movies etc. He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure felt bad) ryan On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > being over > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > -RickG > > > --- > --- > --- > --- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --- > --- > --- > --- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
I allow it at 4kbps... For the entire network. muhahahahahahah *cough* But seriously. I have a play nice policy. If someone is affecting other users, we call them and ask them to slow down thier up/downloads so they don't piss off thier neighbors. My wife called one of our customers to ask that they stop bittorenting so much. The dad said that no-one was torrenting in the house... Further investigation showed it was the 13year old son downloading movies etc. He was grounded for the rest of his life... Turns out dad was the group program manager for Microsoft's DRM group! (whoops! We sure felt bad) ryan On Feb 13, 2010, at 9:54 PM, RickG wrote: > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > being over > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > -RickG > > > --- > --- > --- > --- > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > --- > --- > --- > --- > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Justin, Are you doing the prioritizing/queuing with MT and L7? Greg On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:57 AM, Justin Wilson wrote: >Several companies are now using torrents to distribute stuff. World Of > Warcraft is one. Gets kind of touchy when you have customers paying for a > service, such as WOW, and are unable to get updates to play. Everything I > ever do I give torrent traffic a lower priority and it¹s own global que. > The download is what they really need, so the upload gets throttled pretty > heavily. This fits in well with the ³no server² rule on most networks > because the customer really is not running a server. They are connecting to > Bit Torrent to download. Granted, most torrent clients are setup to share > what has been downloaded, but if the upload is throttled or the customer is > told not to share then it just becomes FTP with a bunch of connections. > The > connections can be limited as well. > >The last patch I downloaded for an online game was 145 megs. I was able > to get much better speed using a torrent than I would have if I would have > used FTP or HTTP. > >Justin > > -- > Justin Wilson > CCNA CCNT Mikrotik Advanced > http://j2sw.mtin.net/blog > > > > From: RickG > Reply-To: WISPA General List > Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:54:45 -0500 > To: WISPA General List > Subject: [WISPA] bit torrents > > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > being over > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > -RickG > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Is that client nat'ed or does he have his own IP address so you'll know the cease and desist order is for him when it comes? Is your billing usage based? Can your network handle folks doing bittorrent? I think if all answers are "yes" then you could consider allowing it. If any answers are "no" then you'd have to say "no". Greg On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 1:24 AM, RickG wrote: > Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer > demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I > being over > zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? > -RickG > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
Several companies are now using torrents to distribute stuff. World Of Warcraft is one. Gets kind of touchy when you have customers paying for a service, such as WOW, and are unable to get updates to play. Everything I ever do I give torrent traffic a lower priority and it¹s own global que. The download is what they really need, so the upload gets throttled pretty heavily. This fits in well with the ³no server² rule on most networks because the customer really is not running a server. They are connecting to Bit Torrent to download. Granted, most torrent clients are setup to share what has been downloaded, but if the upload is throttled or the customer is told not to share then it just becomes FTP with a bunch of connections. The connections can be limited as well. The last patch I downloaded for an online game was 145 megs. I was able to get much better speed using a torrent than I would have if I would have used FTP or HTTP. Justin -- Justin Wilson CCNA CCNT Mikrotik Advanced http://j2sw.mtin.net/blog From: RickG Reply-To: WISPA General List Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 00:54:45 -0500 To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] bit torrents Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I being over zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] bit torrents
We allow but they can't run a server, as in NO sharing. But "allowing" means no 24 hour downloading. Can't get around torrents, even Mikrotik has their updates via torrent. Bob- -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of RickG Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 12:55 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] bit torrents Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I being over zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] bit torrents
Even though our AUP & TOS does not allow it, I have a customer demanding to run bit torrents. I want to be fair in all matters. Am I being over zealous on not allowing torrents? Who here allows or disallows them? -RickG WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
