Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
:-) Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, add a blindfold, take a swig of whiskey to keep warm, go alone, leave your cell phone and radio behind, and don't check the guywires, see how far you can sway the tower at the top, and bring a parachute.. :-) oh yea.. :-) Unlike my alter ego in the mock note I wrote, I'm always super careful on climbing. It requires extensive planning, teamwork, double safety procedures, vigilence about weather. We were on Sunlight Peak in June and a freak storm hit - within 15 minutes of getting off the tower - ice pellets, rain, lightning. We were a few hundred yards from the last tower on the Peak - just 10 minutes before all hell broke loose. In the Rockies, storms can appear without much warning - so you depend on your ground personnel to keep an eye out. We use weather radar on notebook pc's tied into the net, to supplement pre-planning reviews. Everything makes a difference, from hair cut, to clothes, boots, to safety equipment, glasses to organizational items. I use a small backpack with clips, organized so it can be attached nearby and serve as a small tool bag, hardware spare parts kit, walkie talkie holder, all at about 5 lbs. I do take duplicate tools, all the standard bolt/nut sizes we have on the tower (3 wrenches) and spares, along with 2 small adjustable wrenches. Just having a climbing bag outfitted properly is crucial, as far as I'm concerned. To someone who hasn't been up there it may seem trivial. I want every second to count, every movement to be preconsidered, everything I need in its proper place, and within easy reach. Years ago, I realized having to make a second trip because someone pulled vinyl tape out of the kit or splicing tape, or a 5/16ths speed wrench doesn't cut it. While I prep each trip, I'm thinking we'll have a 'hands-off' pack with duplicate equipment for the climb. Using a hauling rope to bring up a new bag with missing tools is dangerous, unpleasent, and unnessary. Take a course, work with experienced people, don't hold out for cheaper gear, clip in often, rest, relax, focus, tell your pals to shut up while you are climbing, clip in, rest before you go, as some one said - bring water, dehydration is real at altitude - if you have a feeling about not climbing *don't*, trust your skeptical instinct. If you don't have the experience, don't climb. If you want to practice, go up 4 feet off the ground and do everything you plan on doing 100 feet up. You fall from 4 feet up, you are going to hurt, but you'll like be alive. Get to know all your gear within a few feet of the ground - practice using your backup ropes, gear, repell from a low height. Always have a backup. And finally, don't listen to me. I'm not an instructor, and I'm not getting paid to write this. I do care about any of you that are climbing. It is dangerous - but fun, and exhilerating - if done properly. :-) Take the course, be careful. Stay alive. George wrote: :) Alex You forgot to mention the blindfold. Too funny. :) Glad wisps have a cents of humor George A. Huppenthal wrote: First thing I do is get some leather soled, slip on shoes. I walk through the mud and hop on the tower. I take an extra jacket that I tie off to my waist and, if my legs get tired, re-tie it to the tower leg and around me. Normally, the backpack I have on is filled with tools - I bring everything, power drill, bits, wratchet set - its heavy and bulky, but better than having to return to the ground. I usally wear just one glove, that way if the ice on the tower is bothering my bare hand I can just hold on with the gloved hand. I find it challanging when the wind is blowing just before an electrical storm to get to the highest part of the tower before I hear the thunder. I'll count down 1.2.3.4.5 after the flash, and if I can get to 3, I know I'm safe. Sometimes my loose jacket will snag on an antenna on the way up and hold me up for a few seconds but I can swing around holding on with one hand. I never climb with a rope. If I do drag a rope up with me, I make sure its a nylon one - light and with no give. I'll weave it through the tower as I go up, and keep the end of it wrapped up on one hand - usually the bare one. Once I'm up above 100 feet, I'll lock an arm around the tower and put much shoe into a cross member to get relaxed. Sometimes the blood cuts off in my arm and I can't feel anything in that arm, but I know I'm safe. Often when I'm pulling up a 150 lbs of extra stuff on a '25 tower, it tends to band into other antennas and get stuck, but if you pull really hard, you can normally get it loose. And if you do any of this stuff, don't call yourself a professional, or complain if you are dead in a day of climbing. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance to save mylife)
Brian is 21. Kurt is in high school. Guess I mushed them together :) George G.Villarini wrote: 21 and high school? George, you flunked kindergarten 3 times ? :-) Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance to save mylife) Brian :) Your only 21 years old, CONGRATS! When I read about guys like you and Kurt , who is still in high school and running a wisp, it makes me happy and proud of you guys that are starting life embracing a business and making a go at it. So keep up the hard work, someday you'll look back on this era of your life and understand why your a success at what ever you will be doing then. I strongly believe in young people getting involved and participating in the business world. It's a sign of independence and ingenuity, which is what drives the American way. Congrats again! George Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Sure is nice to ask for advice and be insulted. If you know so much about how I climb, tell me what I have done wrong. Or start asking me trick questions that I'll answer wrong. Than you may insult me. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance to save my life)
My thought was : how can WISPA help improve safety for members? I climb more than I care to, frankly. Safety is the #1 objective. *nothing* is more important. Consider weather, weight, structure, attachment, ropes.. the list is long and I agree, a seminar/training is the way to go. Between jetski rides, I'd like to see that. :-) Mike Healy wrote: H, sounds to me like you better find a class than can teach you common sense cause you sure ain't got any. I agree with Bob's rant. with one addition... IF (and that is a big if) the local fire dept has a ladder it is only going to go up less than 100' for one and they are not trained (in general) in plucking someone off the side of a tower. My suggestion. spend the money on the training and equipment to do it right before you hurt (or kill) yourself or someone else... Just my $.02 worth Mike Brian Rohrbacher wrote: To be completely honest. Only if it's free. Otherwise, I'll stay tied off 100% of the time and not let anyone stand below me. From there, I'll just pick up pointers as I go along and use common sense (something no class can teach me). A. Huppenthal wrote: How about a training seminar for climbing - OSHA safe. Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Actually, I already own it. Bill Curd sold me his extra one 2 weeks ago. George wrote: Hey order the one with the aluminum bar seat in it. It's only like 20 dollars more, and it's a lot more comfortable to be on a tower in. http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10193 I just got one for my guy and hey says it's way more comfortable than the other one and he can spend more time on a tower. George Bob Moldashel wrote: Brian Rohrbacher wrote: last chance. I am ordering. Well, it's been 3 yearsbut it's time for a harness. Up until now I only climbed grain legs. I am going to go up a 90ft Rohn 25g style tower. It there anything else I need. Yeah...How about some training??? Can I get some links to the rope and pulleys ya'll use? http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10234-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10241-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10511-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10192 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
Ohhh ok, jeje! Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife) Brian is 21. Kurt is in high school. Guess I mushed them together :) George G.Villarini wrote: 21 and high school? George, you flunked kindergarten 3 times ? :-) Gino A. Villarini, Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.aeronetpr.com 787.767.7466 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:22 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance to save mylife) Brian :) Your only 21 years old, CONGRATS! When I read about guys like you and Kurt , who is still in high school and running a wisp, it makes me happy and proud of you guys that are starting life embracing a business and making a go at it. So keep up the hard work, someday you'll look back on this era of your life and understand why your a success at what ever you will be doing then. I strongly believe in young people getting involved and participating in the business world. It's a sign of independence and ingenuity, which is what drives the American way. Congrats again! George Brian Rohrbacher wrote: Sure is nice to ask for advice and be insulted. If you know so much about how I climb, tell me what I have done wrong. Or start asking me trick questions that I'll answer wrong. Than you may insult me. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
Anytime ANYONE climbs for us - They have a double lanyard (shock cord) for going up the tower - they also have chain hooks for positioning and working on the tower - We also have cable grab safety systems on most of our towers currently and will be completely covered with the grab systems on all towers by mid part of next year. When they get into position to work - they are hooked off into 3 places. I do not ASK them to do this - They either do it - or they go home - Period. While they are climbing they are hooked to the tower at ALL times with 2 devices 1. cable grab - 2. lanyard - Even with that much precaution - I've had one of our guys slip and bust his chin wide open and was seeing stars for 20minutes - I bet he didn't even fall 8inches - 13 stiches and a fractured jaw ! We've had to do climbs in the dark on occasion - This may not be the safest - but we're also invested into some great lighting systems to brighten things up. There are many times that you SHOULDN'T climb - wet tower / ice on towers / high winds / rain / lightning / etc. I know a lot of us always take chances at different times - but remember - there is nothing in the world worth more then the safety of the person up on the tower. NEVER ! My brother went up a tower in the rain just the other day - We had a network segement out that had 90 customers on it - We waited for 36 hours for the rain to break and it never did. That 10 minute climb to the top took him 45minutes because of his carefullness and respect for danger / accidents... We were complaining ? HECK NO - We were in the truck watching his butt get soaked ! Be Safe - Or Die - Period - If you don't know what you're doing - DON'T DO IT JohnnyO Now here is a great instance of stupidity that turned out OK - Both myself and my brother were at 70ft on a Rohn25 tower taking it down I decided - what the hell - Let's do 1 section plus the 7ft top section at the same time - To save time and b/c I was in a rush Well - we jacked the tower apart - swung it to the side - the gin pole started to bend and bam ! When the Tower sections that fell 70ft stopped 20ft from the ground - it bent the remaining part of the tower to almost a 45deg angle. And left both of us dangling singing sweet jesus (in not so nice of terms) No big deal - we were on top of a big fluffy cedar tree ! Now - we were LUCKY we both didn't die - no excuses - was our own stupidity and our fault for being idiots. When you fall - you never fall TOWARDS the tower - You always fall AWAY from the tower ! No amount of reaction by yourself is going to save your butt - Your mind / nerves / muscles are not quickc enough - Before you know it - you're hitting the ground -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 12:36 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife) IF you do that, you know at minimum, you won't fall to your death. I consider myself very observant. I will also always look for any piece of the tower that could be compromised. I understand that just because it still stands does not mean it is safe. I still believe that common sense if better than an educated idiot. Tom DeReggi wrote: Brian, I fully agree with George. Only issue is that when you start young, you usually don't know what you don't know, and become over confident. So be cautious about that. I see it way to often. The advantage of people that start out working for someone else in a specific trade, is they learn by seeing, and don't have to figure it out blind. For example in my case, I took a path of self employment instead of going to college. I was making good money so I didn't think I needed the formal training. It took 10 years into my business for me to realize what I didn't know, and how if I had that knowledge I may have been more successful in my ventures. I am now working hard to correct those weaknesses, but I wish I did it 10 years ago. My point is not to pass any judgement on your expertise, just advising that you recognize your weaknesses, so that you are in the position to address them, apposed to overlook them. As far as tower climbing, I hired someone to do my first couple installs. And I made sure that I was there every single moment to watch and learn. It was invaluable to me, before climbing myself. The reality is, its near the same cost to take a course as it is to pay someone for a day to install your gear. So thats one of the reasons the advise is to take a course, by many. Its sorta like sky diving, its generally a good idea to have someone experienced around the first time. If you make a mistake, the penalty can be severe. But if you member two simple rules, you'll probably be OK. Always have atleast one other person around, so if you get in trouble they can call for help. Second
Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
Some of this gets down to a very basic problem. If you can't afford to get the proper training, what else can you not afford? Customers do not care what you can or can not afford. The care about the service you provide. I would suggest going back to your business plan and reviewing the whole thing. How much money do you have? What do you need to get started? What would be nice to get started? I left out the cost of someone to climb my leased tower and it is killing the business plan. I don't have much choice, even if I climbed, I could not afford the insurance the owner requires any more than I can afford the climber. My point is, I can't afford the climber, but I can't afford not to hire him. Your customer service will be terrible if you fall. Even 20 feet and only in the hospital for a week could ruin a startup. I do not climb, never will. Personal thing. So I am not offering advice for climbing. It is a red flag to me when someone is starting up and says I can not afford ... I don't care if it is training, carrier grade equipment, or a screwdriver. That statement says to me that the business plan is not complete. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:08:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife) Brain, I still believe that common sense if better than an educated idiot. I fully agree with you. However, what you fail to realise is that if you consider yourself a common sense person, and you get training, you will be a trained common sense person. Which is better than a common sense person alone. You will also fine that most trainers are not idiots. No matter how much training someone is given, if they are an idiot they have no business climbing either. There is a reason, that people like Bob are so attimate about their advise. They know what you don't know. I also consider my self a common sense person, but I just made a perfect example of how a common sense person can make a mistake, by not taking the time to think of everything, which often happens when someone does not have a lot of expereinece to reinforce memory. IF you do that, you know at minimum, you won't fall to your death. In reality that should have read, you MAY not fall to your death.. I forgot to ask what type of tower you were climbing before advising, and forgot to consider a simple basic concept that Bob mentioned, tie-off doesn't help if you are tied to something that can't withstand the force of a fall. One of the reasons, Tower Climbing advice threads are not popular is that it portays the messages that Climbing can be a casual do it your self thing, jsut like installing a WIFI AP. But the last I heard, no one has ever been killed by a WIFI AP. Tower Climbing is serious business, and shouldn't be done lightly. I'm was in the same position as you are, I couldn't justify paying $2000 everytime that I needed an antenna adjusted, I had to learn more about it, so I could climb as an option when needed. But there is significant risk in doing that. I got the same backlash that you did on this list. The difference is that I took their advice, and learned more about it, before taking the risk. At minimum, you should find an experienced person to go with you for the first climb, and its not likely that that will be free. Good luck. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Brian Rohrbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife) IF you do that, you know at minimum, you won't fall to your death. I consider myself very observant. I will also always look for any piece of the tower that could be compromised. I understand that just because it still stands does not mean it is safe. I still believe that common sense if better than an educated idiot. Tom DeReggi wrote: Brian, I fully agree with George. Only issue is that when you start young, you usually don't know what you don't know, and become over confident. So be cautious about that. I see it way to often. The advantage of people that start out working for someone else in a specific trade, is they learn by seeing, and don't have to figure it out blind. For example in my case, I took a path of self employment instead
RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
Title: Message
Scott
- I really hate to blow the whistle on your post to Brian - but - I myself like
many many dozens of others on the list - want to know - What is a Business Plan
! LOL
JohnnyO
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Brian RohrbacherSent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:41
PMTo: WISPA General ListSubject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and
positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)Let me say
it this way. I don't want to pay for it.Scott Reed wrote:
Some
of this gets down to a very basic problem. If you can't afford to get
the proper training, what else can you not afford? Customers do not
care what you can or can not afford. The care about the service you
provide. I would suggest going back to your business plan and
reviewing the whole thing. How much money do you have? What do
you need to get started? What would be nice to get started? I
left out the cost of someone to climb my leased tower and it is killing the
business plan. I don't have much choice, even if I climbed, I could
not afford the insurance the owner requires any more than I can afford the
climber. My point is, I can't afford the climber, but I can't afford
not to hire him. Your customer service will be terrible if you
fall. Even 20 feet and only in the hospital for a week could ruin a
startup. I do not climb, never will. Personal thing.
So I am not offering advice for climbing. It is a red flag to me
when someone is starting up and says "I can not afford ..." I don't
care if it is training, carrier grade equipment, or a screwdriver.
That statement says to me that the business plan is not complete.
Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network
Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message
--- From: "Tom DeReggi" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent:
Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:08:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and
positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
Brain,I still believe that common sense
if better than an educated idiot. I fully agree with you.
However, what you fail to realise is that if you consider
yourself a common sense person, and you get training, you will be a
trained common sense person. Which is better than a common sense
person alone. You will also fine that most trainers are not idiots.
No matter how much training someone is given, if they are an
idiot they have no business climbing either.
There is a reason, that people like Bob are so attimate about their advise.
They know what you don't know. I also consider my
self a common sense person, but I just made a perfect example of
how a common sense person can make a mistake, by not taking the
time to think of everything, which often happens when someone does not have
a lot of expereinece to reinforce memory. "IF you do that,
you know at minimum, you won't fall to your death." In
reality that should have read, "you MAY not fall to your death.".
I forgot to ask what type of tower you were climbing before
advising, and forgot to consider a simple basic concept that Bob
mentioned, tie-off doesn't help if you are tied to something that
can't withstand the force of a fall. One of the reasons,
Tower Climbing advice threads are not popular is that it portays
the messages that Climbing can be a casual do it your self thing,
jsut like installing a WIFI AP. But the last I heard, no one has ever
been killed by a WIFI AP. Tower Climbing is serious business,
and shouldn't be done lightly. I'm was in the
same position as you are, I couldn't justify paying $2000 everytime
that I needed an antenna adjusted, I had to learn more about it, so
I could climb as an option when needed. But there is significant risk
in doing that. I got the same backlash that you did on this
list. The difference is that I took their advice, and learned more
about it, before taking the risk. At minimum, you should find
an experienced person to go with you for the first climb, and its
not likely that that will be free. Good luck.
Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message
- From: "Brian Rohrbacher" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:35 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA]
Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
"IF you do that, you know at minimum, you won't fall to your
death." I consider myself very observant.
I will also always look for any piece of the towe
RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
Well, Johnny, A business plan is a package of paper that one puts together in the spare time they have before they start to implement said plan and find out they had no clue what they were doing, and now that they are doing something else, they no less about what they are doing. :) I have not read mine in 8 months. Wonder what I said I would be doing this week. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: JohnnyO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:43:50 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife) Scott - I really hate to blow the whistle on your post to Brian - but - I myself like many many dozens of others on the list - want to know - What is a Business Plan ! LOL JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife) Let me say it this way. I don't want to pay for it. Scott Reed wrote: Some of this gets down to a very basic problem. If you can't afford to get the proper training, what else can you not afford? Customers do not care what you can or can not afford. The care about the service you provide. I would suggest going back to your business plan and reviewing the whole thing. How much money do you have? What do you need to get started? What would be nice to get started? I left out the cost of someone to climb my leased tower and it is killing the business plan. I don't have much choice, even if I climbed, I could not afford the insurance the owner requires any more than I can afford the climber. My point is, I can't afford the climber, but I can't afford not to hire him. Your customer service will be terrible if you fall. Even 20 feet and only in the hospital for a week could ruin a startup. I do not climb, never will. Personal thing. So I am not offering advice for climbing. It is a red flag to me when someone is starting up and says I can not afford ... I don't care if it is training, carrier grade equipment, or a screwdriver. That statement says to me that the business plan is not complete. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:08:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife) Brain, I still believe that common sense if better than an educated idiot. I fully agree with you. However, what you fail to realise is that if you consider yourself a common sense person, and you get training, you will be a trained common sense person. Which is better than a common sense person alone. You will also fine that most trainers are not idiots. No matter how much training someone is given, if they are an idiot they have no business climbing either. There is a reason, that people like Bob are so attimate about their advise. They know what you don't know. I also consider my self a common sense person, but I just made a perfect example of how a common sense person can make a mistake, by not taking the time to think of everything, which often happens when someone does not have a lot of expereinece to reinforce memory. IF you do that, you know at minimum, you won't fall to your death. In reality that should have read, you MAY not fall to your death.. I forgot to ask what type of tower you were climbing before advising, and forgot to consider a simple basic concept that Bob mentioned, tie-off doesn't help if you are tied to something that can't withstand the force of a fall. One of the reasons, Tower Climbing advice threads are not popular is that it portays the messages that Climbing can be a casual do it your self thing, jsut like installing a WIFI AP. But the last I heard, no one has ever been killed by a WIFI AP. Tower Climbing is serious business, and shouldn't be done lightly. I'm was in the same position as you are, I couldn't justify paying $2000 everytime that I needed an antenna adjusted, I had to learn more about it, so I could climb as an option when needed
Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
All I know is I was suppose to sell out by now an own my own island somewhere. :) Just kidding, I understood from the get go this is no get rich quick scheme. Scott Reed wrote: Well, Johnny, A business plan is a package of paper that one puts together in the spare time they have before they start to implement said plan and find out they had no clue what they were doing, and now that they are doing something else, they no less about what they are doing. :) I have not read mine in 8 months. Wonder what I said I would be doing this week. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: "JohnnyO" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "'WISPA General List'" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:43:50 -0500 Subject: RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife) Scott - I really hate to blow the whistle on your post to Brian - but - I myself like many many dozens of others on the list - want to know - What is a Business Plan ! LOL JohnnyO -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:41 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife) Let me say it this way. I don't want to pay for it. Scott Reed wrote: Some of this gets down to a very basic problem. If you can't afford to get the proper training, what else can you not afford? Customers do not care what you can or can not afford. The care about the service you provide. I would suggest going back to your business plan and reviewing the whole thing. How much money do you have? What do you need to get started? What would be nice to get started? I left out the cost of someone to climb my leased tower and it is killing the business plan. I don't have much choice, even if I climbed, I could not afford the insurance the owner requires any more than I can afford the climber. My point is, I can't afford the climber, but I can't afford not to hire him. Your customer service will be terrible if you fall. Even 20 feet and only in the hospital for a week could ruin a startup. I do not climb, never will. Personal thing. So I am not offering advice for climbing. It is a red flag to me when someone is starting up and says "I can not afford ..." I don't care if it is training, carrier grade equipment, or a screwdriver. That statement says to me that the business plan is not complete. Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net -- Original Message --- From: "Tom DeReggi" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "WISPA General List" wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:08:25 -0400 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife) Brain, I still believe that common sense if better than an educated idiot. I fully agree with you. However, what you fail to realise is that if you consider yourself a common sense person, and you get training, you will be a trained common sense person. Which is better than a common sense person alone. You will also fine that most trainers are not idiots. No matter how much training someone is given, if they are an idiot they have no business climbing either. There is a reason, that people like Bob are so attimate about their advise. They know what you don't know. I also consider my self a common sense person, but I just made a perfect example of how a common sense person can make a mistake, by not taking the time to think of everything, which often happens when someone does not have a lot of expereinece to reinforce memory. "IF you do that, you know at minimum, you won't fall to your death." In reality that should have read, "you MAY not fall to your death.". I forgot to ask what type of tower you were climbing before advising, and forgot to consider a simple basic concept that Bob mentioned, tie-off doesn't help if you are tied to something that can't withstand the force of a fall. One of the reasons, Tower Climbing advice threads are not popular is that it portays the messages that Climbing can be a casual do it your self thing, jsut like installing a WIFI AP. But the last I heard, no one has ever been killed by a WIFI AP. Tower Climbing is serious business, and shouldn't be done lightly. I'm was in the same position as you are, I couldn't justify paying $2000 everytime that I needed an antenna adjusted, I had to learn more about it, so I could climb as an option when needed. But there is significant risk in doing that. I got the same backlash th
Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance tosave mylife)
First thing I do is get some leather soled, slip on shoes. I walk through the mud and hop on the tower. I take an extra jacket that I tie off to my waist and, if my legs get tired, re-tie it to the tower leg and around me. Normally, the backpack I have on is filled with tools - I bring everything, power drill, bits, wratchet set - its heavy and bulky, but better than having to return to the ground. I usally wear just one glove, that way if the ice on the tower is bothering my bare hand I can just hold on with the gloved hand. I find it challanging when the wind is blowing just before an electrical storm to get to the highest part of the tower before I hear the thunder. I'll count down 1.2.3.4.5 after the flash, and if I can get to 3, I know I'm safe. Sometimes my loose jacket will snag on an antenna on the way up and hold me up for a few seconds but I can swing around holding on with one hand. I never climb with a rope. If I do drag a rope up with me, I make sure its a nylon one - light and with no give. I'll weave it through the tower as I go up, and keep the end of it wrapped up on one hand - usually the bare one. Once I'm up above 100 feet, I'll lock an arm around the tower and put much shoe into a cross member to get relaxed. Sometimes the blood cuts off in my arm and I can't feel anything in that arm, but I know I'm safe. Often when I'm pulling up a 150 lbs of extra stuff on a '25 tower, it tends to band into other antennas and get stuck, but if you pull really hard, you can normally get it loose. And if you do any of this stuff, don't call yourself a professional, or complain if you are dead in a day of climbing. Mac Dearman wrote: I meant 3 people on this list!!! Mac Mac Dearman wrote: I would be willing to bet that their aint more than 3 people who have actually attended and completed a climbing school. I have been climbing for years and have never been to an actual school that I had to pay for. I have yet to fall, bust a chin or a nut on a tower. I may fall in the morning, but it won't be because I wasnt tied off - - - I am worth more dead than alive in ca$h - - - so someone hire a private detective to check my wifes knife along with my lanyard :-) Good common sense is worth more than anything I can think of. I have had some private tutoring by seasoned pro's that has been a great help. I would attend and pay for professional training even today if there was such a thing anywhere in the South. My best advice is to get training, but if you cant - - take your time as you climb, be sure you are 100% locked off and no drinking alcohol or smoking pot...etc before climbing and ALWAYS wear sunglasses, gloves and take water!!! NEVER CLIMB ALONE - always have someone on the ground watching for you and paying attention - - not sleeping! If you get scared, come down easy and try again another day. No war was ever won in a single day!!! -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps
Ah, I found 'em! Glenmartin.com is a good supplier too. These were the rest of the order... Item No. = RG-5000 Product = Wire Rope Grab Total Price = 195.00 Item No. = FP-13400 Product = Tower Positioning Kit Total Price = 121.95 Item No. = FP-17242 Product = Auto-Twist Lock Aluminum Carabiner Total Price = 53.90 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Smith Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:52 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps I bought the following from tasco-safety.com - they seemed to have the best prices on good quality stuff. Item Ref. Price ea. Qty. Description 28003 $35.00 1 Master Series 1/2 x 3' Centurion Rope Lanyard 35346 $68.00 1 Master Series 1 x 6' NoPac Shock Absorbing Polyester Lanyard (2 legs) 66623 $244.00 1 Eagle Tower LX Harness -XL I also bought a rope-grabber, quite a few REAL carabiners, and a clamp set with large Dring for the seat in the harness... Total purchase was around $600 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps I'll need to order today. Does midwest have the best prices? I want a double lanyard but they are 150 - 200, it that what they all run or is this just super high quality? I didn't want to have 1000 into climbing gear. I know I knowI could die. is this the best positioning strap? http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10241 The double lanyard needs to have the big fat hooks. Anymore suggestions? George wrote: http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10229 George Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I just bought a harness. (I know, two years in and it's my first harness) I need a nice double lanyard and a positioning strap (or two, does it take 2?) Where can I find good quality, but not a premium price. Or maybe medium quality. I don't want to go broke or fall. :) Thanks. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps
I will add... I bought a rope grabber for 3/8 metal wire. I made the mistake of buying the inexpensive $99 version, it is a pain to work with because it needs to be assembled around the wire/rope, and is difficult to do as I climb the tower and need to remove it to go over the brackets that fasten the wire to the tower. The $250 good version is preferred, and worth every penny, because it will actually be used instead of sitting in a bucket. It is better because it can very easilly be released to wrap around the wire without taking it apart. I forget the names of them, but the sellers know what I'm referring to. Tom DeReggi - Original Message - From: Rick Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:51 AM Subject: RE: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps I bought the following from tasco-safety.com - they seemed to have the best prices on good quality stuff. Item Ref. Price ea. Qty. Description 28003 $35.00 1 Master Series 1/2 x 3' Centurion Rope Lanyard 35346 $68.00 1 Master Series 1 x 6' NoPac Shock Absorbing Polyester Lanyard (2 legs) 66623 $244.00 1 Eagle Tower LX Harness -XL I also bought a rope-grabber, quite a few REAL carabiners, and a clamp set with large Dring for the seat in the harness... Total purchase was around $600 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 10:58 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps I'll need to order today. Does midwest have the best prices? I want a double lanyard but they are 150 - 200, it that what they all run or is this just super high quality? I didn't want to have 1000 into climbing gear. I know I knowI could die. is this the best positioning strap? http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10241 The double lanyard needs to have the big fat hooks. Anymore suggestions? George wrote: http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10229 George Brian Rohrbacher wrote: I just bought a harness. (I know, two years in and it's my first harness) I need a nice double lanyard and a positioning strap (or two, does it take 2?) Where can I find good quality, but not a premium price. Or maybe medium quality. I don't want to go broke or fall. :) Thanks. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.9/72 - Release Date: 8/14/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.10/73 - Release Date: 8/15/2005 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Lanyard and positioning straps (last chance to save my life)
Brian Rohrbacher wrote: last chance. I am ordering. Well, it's been 3 yearsbut it's time for a harness. Up until now I only climbed grain legs. I am going to go up a 90ft Rohn 25g style tower. It there anything else I need. Yeah...How about some training??? Can I get some links to the rope and pulleys ya'll use? http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10234-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10241-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10511-session=midwest:44FFC22E13ec524B34QXo248103D http://www.midwestunlimited.com/store_detail.lasso?-Token.id=10192 -- Bob Moldashel Lakeland Communications, Inc. Broadband Deployment Group 1350 Lincoln Avenue Holbrook, New York 11741 USA 800-479-9195 Toll Free US Canada 631-585-5558 Fax 516-551-1131 Cell -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
