Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

Yea! Thanks! That is it. So it became or some of the developers started
Meraki? 

Scottie

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Hardy
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:14 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


I think you're thinking of the MIT Roofnet project?
http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/roofnet/doku.php

:)

Scottie Arnett wrote:
> I was thinking of something else...can't remember what is was called. 
> A college was replacing the firmware in some Netgear WGR614L(best I 
> recall) routers and meshing the whole campus with it. Sorry for the 
> confusion.
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "John J. Thomas" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:49:14 +
>
>   
>> Some MME info
>>
>> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MME_wireless_routing_protocol
>>
>> John
>>
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 09:34 PM
>>> To: e...@wisp-router.com, 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>
>>> Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this 
>>> to begin with that worked really well...and all other versions are 
>>> built on it?
>>>
>>> Scottie
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: e...@wisp-router.com
>>> Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List 
>>> 
>>> Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +
>>>
>>>   
>>>> MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used 
>>>> instead of using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it 
>>>> gets.
>>>>
>>>> /Eje
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Harold Bledsoe 
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are 
>>>> talking about when you say MT mesh:  
>>>> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>>>>
>>>> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation. 
>>>> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an 
>>>> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account 
>>>> signal strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to 
>>>> calculate the best path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for 
>>>> uplink/downlink/service set to give high performance.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure 
>>>> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh 
>>>> and should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's 
>>>> website with the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh 
>>>> (board, indoor, and outdoor selections).
>>>>
>>>> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal 
>>>> and there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know 
>>>> what you are getting!
>>>>
>>>> -Hal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>>>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>>> To: WISPA General List 
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Burgess,
>>>>
>>>>What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it 
>>>> appears
>>>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
>>>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
>>>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
>>>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too

>>>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
>>>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
>>>> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
>>>> as Ubiquiti look more a

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Drew Lentz]

Don't forget about Sascha's project @ CUWiN
http://cuwireless.net/

-d

On 2/19/09 5:13 AM, "Matt Hardy"  wrote:

> I think you're thinking of the MIT Roofnet project?
> http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/roofnet/doku.php
> 
> :)
> 
> Scottie Arnett wrote:
>> I was thinking of something else...can't remember what is was called. A
>> college was replacing the firmware in some Netgear WGR614L(best I recall)
>> routers and meshing the whole campus with it. Sorry for the confusion.
>> 
>> Scottie
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "John J. Thomas" 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:49:14 +
>> 
>>   
>>> Some MME info
>>> 
>>> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MME_wireless_routing_protocol
>>> 
>>> John
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-
>>>> From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 09:34 PM
>>>> To: e...@wisp-router.com, 'WISPA General List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>> 
>>>> Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this to begin
>>>> with that worked really well...and all other versions are built on it?
>>>> 
>>>> Scottie
>>>> 
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: e...@wisp-router.com
>>>> Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List 
>>>> Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +0000
>>>> 
>>>>   
>>>>> MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of
>>>>> using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets.
>>>>> 
>>>>> /Eje
>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: Harold Bledsoe 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39
>>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
>>>>> about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>>>>> 
>>>>> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
>>>>> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
>>>>> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
>>>>> strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
>>>>> path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
>>>>> to give high performance.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
>>>>> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
>>>>> should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
>>>>> the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
>>>>> outdoor selections).
>>>>> 
>>>>> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
>>>>> there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
>>>>> are getting!
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Hal
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>>>>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>>>> To: WISPA General List 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mr. Burgess,
>>>>> 
>>>>> What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
>>>>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
>>>>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
>>>>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
>>>>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
>>>>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
>>>>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
>>>>> leap

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Matt Hardy]

I think you're thinking of the MIT Roofnet project?
http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/roofnet/doku.php

:)

Scottie Arnett wrote:
> I was thinking of something else...can't remember what is was called. A 
> college was replacing the firmware in some Netgear WGR614L(best I recall) 
> routers and meshing the whole campus with it. Sorry for the confusion.
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "John J. Thomas" 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:49:14 +
>
>   
>> Some MME info
>>
>> http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MME_wireless_routing_protocol
>>
>> John
>>
>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 09:34 PM
>>> To: e...@wisp-router.com, 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>
>>> Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this to begin 
>>> with that worked really well...and all other versions are built on it?
>>>
>>> Scottie
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: e...@wisp-router.com
>>> Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List 
>>> Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +
>>>
>>>   
>>>> MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
>>>> using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 
>>>>
>>>> /Eje
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Harold Bledsoe 
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
>>>> To: WISPA General List
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
>>>> about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>>>>
>>>> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
>>>> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
>>>> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
>>>> strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
>>>> path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
>>>> to give high performance.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
>>>> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
>>>> should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
>>>> the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
>>>> outdoor selections).
>>>>
>>>> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
>>>> there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
>>>> are getting!
>>>>
>>>> -Hal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>>>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>>> To: WISPA General List 
>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Burgess,
>>>>
>>>>What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
>>>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
>>>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
>>>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
>>>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
>>>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
>>>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
>>>> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
>>>> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>>>
>>>>Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
>>>> bad?
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>&

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

I was thinking of something else...can't remember what is was called. A college 
was replacing the firmware in some Netgear WGR614L(best I recall) routers and 
meshing the whole campus with it. Sorry for the confusion.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "John J. Thomas" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Wed, 18 Feb 2009 18:49:14 +

>Some MME info
>
>http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MME_wireless_routing_protocol
>
>John
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com]
>>Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 09:34 PM
>>To: e...@wisp-router.com, 'WISPA General List'
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>
>>Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this to begin 
>>with that worked really well...and all other versions are built on it?
>>
>>Scottie
>>
>>-- Original Message --
>>From: e...@wisp-router.com
>>Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List 
>>Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +
>>
>>>MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
>>>using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 
>>>
>>>/Eje
>>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: Harold Bledsoe 
>>>
>>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
>>>To: WISPA General List
>>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>
>>>
>>>Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
>>>about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>>>
>>>If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
>>>There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
>>>infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
>>>strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
>>>path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
>>>to give high performance.
>>>
>>>On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
>>>mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
>>>should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
>>>the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
>>>outdoor selections).
>>>
>>>I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
>>>there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
>>>are getting!
>>>
>>>-Hal
>>>
>>>
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>>>Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>>To: WISPA General List 
>>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>>>
>>>Mr. Burgess,
>>>
>>> What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
>>>the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
>>>sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
>>>see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
>>>detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
>>>much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
>>>because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
>>>leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
>>>as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>>
>>> Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
>>>bad?
>>>
>>>Greg
>>>On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>>>> and it works :)
>>>>
>>>> * ---
>>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>>>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>&g

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[John J. Thomas]

Some MME info

http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/MME_wireless_routing_protocol

John

>-Original Message-
>From: Scottie Arnett [mailto:sarn...@info-ed.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 09:34 PM
>To: e...@wisp-router.com, 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this to begin 
>with that worked really well...and all other versions are built on it?
>
>Scottie
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: e...@wisp-router.com
>Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List 
>Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +
>
>>MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
>>using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 
>>
>>/Eje
>>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Harold Bledsoe 
>>
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
>>To: WISPA General List
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>
>>
>>Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
>>about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>>
>>If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
>>There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
>>infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
>>strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
>>path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
>>to give high performance.
>>
>>On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
>>mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
>>should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
>>the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
>>outdoor selections).
>>
>>I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
>>there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
>>are getting!
>>
>>-Hal
>>
>>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>>Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>To: WISPA General List 
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>>
>>Mr. Burgess,
>>
>>  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
>>the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
>>sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
>>see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
>>detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
>>much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
>>because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
>>leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
>>as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>
>>  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
>>bad?
>>
>>Greg
>>On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>
>>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>>> and it works :)
>>>
>>> * ---
>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>>
>>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
>>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
>>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
>>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
>>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
>>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
>>> prohibited, If you
>>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
>>> material from any computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>&

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Paul Kralovec]

How about StarOS

Paul D. Kralovec

President

Unplugged Cities, LLC

511 11th Ave. S 

Suite 241 

Minneapolis, MN 55415

 

W: 763-235-3001

F:  763-647-7998

C:  952-270-9107

www.unpluggedcities.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

There are pluses & minuses to each platform (Mikrotik & StarOS), but
if you want simple, StarOS is it.
-RickG

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists
 wrote:
> Don't drink the Mikrotik kool-aid just yet.   You should probably give
> some consideration to StarOS.   StarOS has an excellent industry
> standard mesh routing protocol built in - OLSR - and the popular X4000
> platform is very low cost (~$350 or so in a four radio configuration).
>
> I tried Mikrotik and went back to StarOS because I saw much better
> performance and maintainability for the wireless networks that I design
> and operate.   Actual StarOS documentation is kind of sparse, but it
> uses a lot of standard Linux packages (OSLR, OSPF, quagga, cbq,
> iptables) that are well documented.
>
> Unfortunately, StarOS has not done a very good job of getting people
> trained or setting up good relationships with vendors, so you don't hear
> about it as much any more.   For what I do, it is better than Mikrotik
> and I'm very happy with it.
>
> Matt Larsen
> mlar...@inventivemedia.net
>
>
> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!
>>
>> I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on
>> an old PC first.
>>
>> Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the
>> something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.
>>> If
>>> you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
>>> see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,
>>> maybe.  lol.
>>>
>>> There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
>>> can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is
>>> not
>>> the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
>>> that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
>>> implement it.  its not "paste it in" and magic happens.
>>>
>>> As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
>>> agree there?
>>>
>>> * ---
>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>>
>>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
>>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
>>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
>>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
>>> prohibited, If you
>>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
>>> material from any computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mr. Burgess,
>>>>
>>>> What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
>>>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
>>>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
>>>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
>>>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making
>>>> too
>>>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
>>>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
>&g

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

Too give credit where credit is due...did not a university do this to begin 
with that worked really well...and all other versions are built on it?

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: e...@wisp-router.com
Reply-To: e...@wisp-router.com, WISPA General List 
Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:36:32 +

>MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
>using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 
>
>/Eje
>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Harold Bledsoe 
>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>
>Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
>about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>
>If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
>There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
>infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
>strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
>path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
>to give high performance.
>
>On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
>mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
>should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
>the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
>outdoor selections).
>
>I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
>there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
>are getting!
>
>-Hal
>
>
>-----Original Message-
>From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>To: WISPA General List 
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>
>Mr. Burgess,
>
>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
>the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
>sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
>see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
>detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
>much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
>because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
>leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
>as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>
>   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
>bad?
>
>Greg
>On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>> and it works :)
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
>> prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
>> material from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>>> MT and a consultant ;)
>>>
>>> /me laughing while running for cover
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Scott Vander Dussen 
>>>
>>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>
>>>
>>> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
>>> just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
>>> my feet wet and have some fun.
>>>
>>> I'd charge for the service if it wa

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

I am not sure if Deliberant(ligowave) uses polling yet on this platform, I know 
that Engenius follows suit of all Senao happeningsBut I do know that 
OSBridge uses polling on their 2.4 Wifi mac! If you know anything about a 2.4 
wifi mac that you will need polling of some sort to get anymore than 25 to 50 
customers on it, and that is if you are lucky. You can use MT Nstreme and do 
it, or OSBridge, if you want more than 20 to 30 on an AP, you are asking for 
trouble without using polling(and someone in the hidden node area).

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: Scott Vander Dussen 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:58:12 -0800

>Jerry-
>Thanks - is the Engenius product no longer supported?  I couldn't find 
>anything on Engenius website about it and seems like only a few distributors 
>have this product in stock.  Deliberant is in the same enclosure as OSBridge 
>uses for their full duplex backhauls.
>
>It'd be cool to combo a bullet5 and pico hp2 with a crossover harness that 
>injects power where the bullet5 + omni would BH the devices and the pico would 
>provide service to end users.  Seems like you'd get a ghetto mesh for 
>~130/node.
>
>Thanks,
>`S
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
>Of Jerry Richardson
>Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:08 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>I just went through this exercise - spent hours looking at various options.
>
>Deliberant and Engenius are the two options I arrived at. These seemed like 
>the best price/performance to me and are refined enough to be easily 
>supported. It's not true Mesh but rather WDS distribution via radio 1 and 
>client access on radio 2
>- Engenius EOC-7550 Dual radio AP (4 SSID/VLAN) - 199 - cheesy omni's included 
>I think
>- Deliberant DUO Dual radio AP (16 SSID/VLAN) - 349 - no antennas
>
>If you can get away with a single radio WDS setup, then the costs drop through 
>the floor - Sprinkle them around like chicklets:
>- Ubiquity Pico, Nano, etc - 49 and up
>- Engenius - copy cats - 49 and up
>- Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT
>- etc
>
>If it really needs to be mesh then the two lowest cost options I found
>are:
>- MikroTik with two radios - 349/kit assembled - no antennas
>- Ligowave DUO and Quad - 1k and up - no antennas
>
>
>
>__
>Jerry Richardson
>airCloud Communications
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
>Of Scott Vander Dussen
>Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:13 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for 
>kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have 
>some fun.
>
>I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
>enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
>solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
>how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).
>Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP 
>- is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - 
>thanks in advance.
>
>`S
>
>PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
>save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.
>(:
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

Grow some. I did. There is lots of doc's out there. You just have to take some 
time to learn it. Just like anything else...learning to ride a bike for 
example. It takes trials and tribulations. My company is a two man crew. I took 
time to learn much about MT, but not all yet...I still have days we are sitting 
around tweedling our thumbs, I use it to learn something new about Tik! And not 
messing with our secretary...J/K!

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: Scott Vander Dussen 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:52:46 -0800

>**sigh**  So anyhow, about my chest hair..
>
>`S
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
>Of os10ru...@gmail.com
>Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:49 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!
>
>I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on
>an old PC first.
>
>Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the
>something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!
>
>Greg
>
>On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>> The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.
>> If
>> you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
>> see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,
>> maybe.  lol.
>>
>> There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
>> can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is
>> not
>> the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
>> that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
>> implement it.  its not "paste it in" and magic happens.
>>
>> As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
>> agree there?
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
>> prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
>> material from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Mr. Burgess,
>>>
>>>  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
>>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
>>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
>>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
>>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making
>>> too
>>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
>>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
>>> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
>>> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>>
>>>  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
>>> bad?
>>>
>>> Greg
>>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done
>>>> that
>>>> and it works :)
>>>>
>>>> * ---
>>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scottie Arnett]

Well said David. I "learned" of Mikrotik about 3 years ago. There is so much, 
that I am still "learning." It is very useful for many things, more than I care 
to mention, for sure when it is many  less than any other solution that can 
do what it does that it is available in the USA. Keep in mind that the 
developers are in Latvia... our  are many more than theirs(or was!) So they 
get paid well when you license the product!

The doc's are behind somewhat, but I keep behind as far as they do on new 
upgrades(for the most part). It does so much more than anything else, I can't 
afford not to use it!

Just my observance.

Scottie 

-- Original Message --
From: "David E. Smith" 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:15:56 -0600

>os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
>> detailed help/wiki online.
>
>The Web interface is kinda a joke, but the preferred GUI is probably 
>"Winbox" anyway. Winbox is a small proprietary (and Windows-only) 
>utility, that you can download via the Web interface, that exposes most 
>functionality.
>
>The documentation on Mikrotik's Web site is actually pretty thorough, 
>with the caveat that it's always about one version behind. The wiki 
>isn't the best, but it has a few clever tricks here and there.
>
>Mikrotik RouterOS's greatest strength is that you can do just about 
>anything with it - the same device can do routing, firewalling, traffic 
>shaping, BGP, wireless access, wireless client, RADIUS, and about 873 
>other things. Its greatest weakness is that you can do just about 
>anything with it ...
>
>Fortunately, just about everything is turned off by default, and you can 
>usually just ignore the features you're not using. :)
>
>David Smith
>MVN.net
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[RickG]

There are pluses & minuses to each platform (Mikrotik & StarOS), but
if you want simple, StarOS is it.
-RickG

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 5:20 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists
 wrote:
> Don't drink the Mikrotik kool-aid just yet.   You should probably give
> some consideration to StarOS.   StarOS has an excellent industry
> standard mesh routing protocol built in - OLSR - and the popular X4000
> platform is very low cost (~$350 or so in a four radio configuration).
>
> I tried Mikrotik and went back to StarOS because I saw much better
> performance and maintainability for the wireless networks that I design
> and operate.   Actual StarOS documentation is kind of sparse, but it
> uses a lot of standard Linux packages (OSLR, OSPF, quagga, cbq,
> iptables) that are well documented.
>
> Unfortunately, StarOS has not done a very good job of getting people
> trained or setting up good relationships with vendors, so you don't hear
> about it as much any more.   For what I do, it is better than Mikrotik
> and I'm very happy with it.
>
> Matt Larsen
> mlar...@inventivemedia.net
>
>
> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!
>>
>> I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on
>> an old PC first.
>>
>> Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the
>> something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.
>>> If
>>> you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
>>> see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,
>>> maybe.  lol.
>>>
>>> There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
>>> can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is
>>> not
>>> the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
>>> that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
>>> implement it.  its not "paste it in" and magic happens.
>>>
>>> As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
>>> agree there?
>>>
>>> * ---
>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> 
>>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>>> 
>>>
>>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
>>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
>>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
>>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
>>> prohibited, If you
>>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
>>> material from any computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Mr. Burgess,

 What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making
 too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

 Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:



> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done
> that
> and it works :)
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> 
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> 
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or pr

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[RickG]

Well, it has a "hot spot" option, so maybe a "cold spot" option can be
in the next version :)
-RickG

On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Scott Vander Dussen
 wrote:
> Does MT make ice cream?  If they did, it would be the BEST!
>
> Haha,
> `S
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:26 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
> hmmm. ice cream
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
> for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any 
> action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than 
> the intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material 
> from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> Harold Bledsoe wrote:
>> Or ice cream.  :)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jack Unger 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> To: WISPA General List 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:27:59 -0800
>>
>> I think you are making the point that "mesh" is a very broad term; it's
>> like "happiness" - there are many flavors...
>>
>> Harold Bledsoe wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
>>> about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>>>
>>> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
>>> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
>>> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
>>> strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
>>> path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
>>> to give high performance.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
>>> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
>>> should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
>>> the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
>>> outdoor selections).
>>>
>>> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
>>> there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
>>> are getting!
>>>
>>> -Hal
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>> To: WISPA General List 
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>>>
>>> Mr. Burgess,
>>>
>>>  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
>>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
>>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
>>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
>>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
>>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
>>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
>>> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
>>> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>>
>>>  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
>>> bad?
>>>
>>> Greg
>>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>>>> and it works :)
>>>>

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Jerry Richardson]

The opposite - it's so new it's not the website. 

Streakwave has them on their site but I don't know availability.

Your ghetto mesh might work. It's cheap enough to order some up and test
the theory. 
 
__ 
Jerry Richardson 
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Jerry-
Thanks - is the Engenius product no longer supported?  I couldn't find
anything on Engenius website about it and seems like only a few
distributors have this product in stock.  Deliberant is in the same
enclosure as OSBridge uses for their full duplex backhauls.

It'd be cool to combo a bullet5 and pico hp2 with a crossover harness
that injects power where the bullet5 + omni would BH the devices and the
pico would provide service to end users.  Seems like you'd get a ghetto
mesh for ~130/node.

Thanks,
`S

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

I just went through this exercise - spent hours looking at various
options.

Deliberant and Engenius are the two options I arrived at. These seemed
like the best price/performance to me and are refined enough to be
easily supported. It's not true Mesh but rather WDS distribution via
radio 1 and client access on radio 2
- Engenius EOC-7550 Dual radio AP (4 SSID/VLAN) - 199 - cheesy omni's
included I think
- Deliberant DUO Dual radio AP (16 SSID/VLAN) - 349 - no antennas

If you can get away with a single radio WDS setup, then the costs drop
through the floor - Sprinkle them around like chicklets:
- Ubiquity Pico, Nano, etc - 49 and up
- Engenius - copy cats - 49 and up
- Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT
- etc

If it really needs to be mesh then the two lowest cost options I found
are:
- MikroTik with two radios - 349/kit assembled - no antennas
- Ligowave DUO and Quad - 1k and up - no antennas



__
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for
kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet
and have some fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked
good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was
a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a
recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).
Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the
Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh?  Very
new to mesh - thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it
can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.
(:




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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

Mr. Larsen,

Thanks. I've heard very good things about StarOS as well. It  
certainly has it's devotees. But as you mentioned Valemount doesn't  
have the presence in the marketplace that Mikrotik has and that makes  
me wonder what kind of position Valemount will be in a number of years  
down the road. I don't change my equipment because of growing demand,  
I tend to use it till its end of life so I think about long term  
support and firmware updates etc.

I will give StarOS a good look before I make any decision.

I'm hoping that as the Ubiquiti line matures they'll incorporate some  
of the better features of RouterOS and StarOS though maybe they plan  
to just stay in the simple AP and CPE market rather that compete head  
to head with Mikrotik and Valemount.

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 5:50 PM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

> Don't drink the Mikrotik kool-aid just yet.   You should probably give
> some consideration to StarOS.   StarOS has an excellent industry
> standard mesh routing protocol built in - OLSR - and the popular X4000
> platform is very low cost (~$350 or so in a four radio configuration).
>
> I tried Mikrotik and went back to StarOS because I saw much better
> performance and maintainability for the wireless networks that I  
> design
> and operate.   Actual StarOS documentation is kind of sparse, but it
> uses a lot of standard Linux packages (OSLR, OSPF, quagga, cbq,
> iptables) that are well documented.
>
> Unfortunately, StarOS has not done a very good job of getting people
> trained or setting up good relationships with vendors, so you don't  
> hear
> about it as much any more.   For what I do, it is better than Mikrotik
> and I'm very happy with it.
>
> Matt Larsen
> mlar...@inventivemedia.net
>
>
> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!
>>
>> I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version  
>> on
>> an old PC first.
>>
>> Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the
>> something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.
>>> If
>>> you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I  
>>> can
>>> see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,
>>> maybe.  lol.
>>>
>>> There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said,  
>>> you
>>> can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is
>>> not
>>> the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on- 
>>> line
>>> that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how  
>>> to
>>> implement it.  its not "paste it in" and magic happens.
>>>
>>> As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure  
>>> would
>>> agree there?
>>>
>>> * ---
>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> 
>>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>>> 
>>>
>>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
>>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
>>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
>>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
>>> prohibited, If you
>>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
>>> material from any computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it  
 appears
 the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
 sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I  
 don't
 see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a  
 highly
 detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making
 too
 much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for  
 free. So
 because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make  
 the
 leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions  
 such
 as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not  
 that
 bad?

 Greg
 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:



> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done
>

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

Don't drink the Mikrotik kool-aid just yet.   You should probably give 
some consideration to StarOS.   StarOS has an excellent industry 
standard mesh routing protocol built in - OLSR - and the popular X4000 
platform is very low cost (~$350 or so in a four radio configuration).  

I tried Mikrotik and went back to StarOS because I saw much better 
performance and maintainability for the wireless networks that I design 
and operate.   Actual StarOS documentation is kind of sparse, but it 
uses a lot of standard Linux packages (OSLR, OSPF, quagga, cbq, 
iptables) that are well documented.

Unfortunately, StarOS has not done a very good job of getting people 
trained or setting up good relationships with vendors, so you don't hear 
about it as much any more.   For what I do, it is better than Mikrotik 
and I'm very happy with it.

Matt Larsen
mlar...@inventivemedia.net


os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
> Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!
>
> I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on  
> an old PC first.
>
> Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the  
> something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!
>
> Greg
>
> On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>   
>> The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.   
>> If
>> you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
>> see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,  
>> maybe.  lol.
>>
>> There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
>> can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is  
>> not
>> the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
>> that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
>> implement it.  its not "paste it in" and magic happens.
>>
>> As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
>> agree there?
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> 
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> 
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
>> prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
>> material from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> Mr. Burgess,
>>>
>>> What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
>>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
>>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
>>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
>>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making  
>>> too
>>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
>>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
>>> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
>>> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>>
>>> Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
>>> bad?
>>>
>>> Greg
>>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
 Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done  
 that
 and it works :)

 * ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member*
 *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
 
 */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
 

 The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
 the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
 intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
 it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
 material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
 or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
 persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
 prohibited, If you
 rece

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

Don't help if don't have the latest IOS firmware I would think. I must say I 
haven't used Cisco for a long time (replaced with ImageStream) and the few 
times I had to help customer that had a cisco that needed some configuration 
changes to deal with the internal routing we help setup with MikroTik it was 
always it seemed an older firmware and they customer know very little more then 
the username and password and ips to get in to the cisco. 
But glad Cisco is coming to the 21st century with decent provisioning tools and 
configuration tools which I been spoiled with Mikrotik every since I first 
started using it almost hmm 7 years ago. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: "John J. Thomas" 

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 18:36:31 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


You DO NOT have to use a CLI to do firewalling nowadays. Cisco has the SDM for 
routers, and the ASDM for ASA's.

John

>-Original Message-
>From: e...@wisp-router.com [mailto:e...@wisp-router.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 07:26 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>Winbox. Then very little need for CLI. There is nothing you can not do through 
>winbox that you can not do through CLI. Scripting most people do not use it or 
>just use it to execute simple CLI instructions. You have a bunch of script 
>samples on wiki.mikrotik.com. 
>Like with any advanced networking product there is a little learning curve. 
>But reason why most people have problems getting a grip on MikroTik is that 
>their network knowledge is limited so they have problem understanding the 
>routing concept and understanding how ip works and flows with its source 
>ports, destination ports so they have issues creating firewall rules etc. On 
>the WISP-Training Mikrotik class (the training material Butch and me created) 
>the primary reason it was created was to teach how routing, sub netting and ip 
>flows worked and of course from a view point in how to configure this with 
>MikroTik. It's a whole lot easier to get running then say a Cisco router where 
>everything have to be CLI and firewalling rule creation imo is very cryptic 
>and not very straight forward. 
>
>/Eje Gustafsson
>CTO
>WISP-Router, Inc
>Bringing MikroTik to the masses since 2002. 
>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>
>Mr. Burgess,
>
>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
>the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
>sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
>see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
>detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
>much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
>because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
>leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
>as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>
>   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
>bad?
>
>Greg
>On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>> and it works :)
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
>> prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
>> material from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>>> MT and a consultant ;)
>

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[John J. Thomas]

You DO NOT have to use a CLI to do firewalling nowadays. Cisco has the SDM for 
routers, and the ASDM for ASA's.

John

>-Original Message-
>From: e...@wisp-router.com [mailto:e...@wisp-router.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 07:26 AM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>Winbox. Then very little need for CLI. There is nothing you can not do through 
>winbox that you can not do through CLI. Scripting most people do not use it or 
>just use it to execute simple CLI instructions. You have a bunch of script 
>samples on wiki.mikrotik.com. 
>Like with any advanced networking product there is a little learning curve. 
>But reason why most people have problems getting a grip on MikroTik is that 
>their network knowledge is limited so they have problem understanding the 
>routing concept and understanding how ip works and flows with its source 
>ports, destination ports so they have issues creating firewall rules etc. On 
>the WISP-Training Mikrotik class (the training material Butch and me created) 
>the primary reason it was created was to teach how routing, sub netting and ip 
>flows worked and of course from a view point in how to configure this with 
>MikroTik. It's a whole lot easier to get running then say a Cisco router where 
>everything have to be CLI and firewalling rule creation imo is very cryptic 
>and not very straight forward. 
>
>/Eje Gustafsson
>CTO
>WISP-Router, Inc
>Bringing MikroTik to the masses since 2002. 
>Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
>-Original Message-
>From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>
>Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>
>Mr. Burgess,
>
>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
>the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
>sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
>see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
>detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
>much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
>because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
>leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
>as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>
>   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
>bad?
>
>Greg
>On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>> and it works :)
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
>> prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
>> material from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>>> MT and a consultant ;)
>>>
>>> /me laughing while running for cover
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Scott Vander Dussen 
>>>
>>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>
>>>
>>> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
>>> just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
>>> my feet wet and have some fun.
>>>
>>> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
>>> worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
>>> there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
>

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Does MT make ice cream?  If they did, it would be the BEST!

Haha,
`S

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

hmmm. ice cream

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
<http://www.linktechs.net/>
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
<http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.





Harold Bledsoe wrote:
> Or ice cream.  :)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Unger 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:27:59 -0800
>
> I think you are making the point that "mesh" is a very broad term; it's
> like "happiness" - there are many flavors...
>
> Harold Bledsoe wrote:
>
>
>> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
>> about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>>
>> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
>> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
>> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
>> strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
>> path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
>> to give high performance.
>>
>> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
>> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
>> should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
>> the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
>> outdoor selections).
>>
>> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
>> there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
>> are getting!
>>
>> -Hal
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> To: WISPA General List 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>>
>> Mr. Burgess,
>>
>>  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
>> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
>> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>
>>  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
>> bad?
>>
>> Greg
>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>>> and it works :)
>>>
>>> * ---
>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>>
>>> The information transmitted (including attachm

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Dennis Burgess]

hmmm. ice cream

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
<http://www.linktechs.net/>
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 
<http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



Harold Bledsoe wrote:
> Or ice cream.  :)
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jack Unger 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:27:59 -0800
>
> I think you are making the point that "mesh" is a very broad term; it's
> like "happiness" - there are many flavors...
>
> Harold Bledsoe wrote: 
>
>   
>> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
>> about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>>
>> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
>> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
>> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
>> strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
>> path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
>> to give high performance.
>>
>> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
>> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
>> should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
>> the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
>> outdoor selections).
>>
>> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
>> there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
>> are getting!
>>
>> -Hal
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> To: WISPA General List 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>>
>> Mr. Burgess,
>>
>>  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
>> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
>> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>
>>  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
>> bad?
>>
>> Greg
>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>
>>   
>>
>> 
>>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>>> and it works :)
>>>
>>> * ---
>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>>
>>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
>>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
>>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
>>> material. Any re

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Dennis Burgess]

Agreed Eje.  Works great. 

There are lots of options etc.  

Also, as you have hear, "mesh" is just another 4-letter word in my 
book.  You can have a "routed mesh", or you can use some of the other 
definitions including MME, etc.  What you really need to find out is how 
and what you are going to deliver.  Delivering 200k vs megs will make 
you change the hardware and requirements that you have. It may also 
change the design. 

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
<http://www.linktechs.net/>
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 
<http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
> MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
> using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 
>
> /Eje
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Harold Bledsoe 
>
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>
> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
> about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>
> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
> strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
> path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
> to give high performance.
>
> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
> should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
> the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
> outdoor selections).
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
> there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
> are getting!
>
> -Hal
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>
> Mr. Burgess,
>
>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>
>   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
> bad?
>
> Greg
> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>   
>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>> and it works :)
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to wh

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Harold Bledsoe]

Or ice cream.  :)


-Original Message-
From: Jack Unger 
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 08:27:59 -0800

I think you are making the point that "mesh" is a very broad term; it's
like "happiness" - there are many flavors...

Harold Bledsoe wrote: 

> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
> about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
> 
> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
> strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
> path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
> to give high performance.
> 
> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
> should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
> the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
> outdoor selections).
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
> there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
> are getting!
> 
> -Hal
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
> 
> Mr. Burgess,
> 
>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
> 
>   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
> bad?
> 
> Greg
> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
> 
>   
> 
> > Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
> > and it works :)
> > 
> > * ---
> > Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> > WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> > WISPA Vendor Member*
> > *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> > <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> > */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> > <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
> > 
> > The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
> > the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
> > intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> > it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
> > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
> > or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
> > persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
> > prohibited, If you
> > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
> > material from any computer.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > MT and a consultant ;)
> > > 
> > > /me laughing while running for cover
> > > 
> > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
> > > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Scott Vander Dussen 
> > > 
> > > Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
> > > To: WISPA General List
> > > Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
> > > just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
> > > my feet wet and have some fun.
> > > 
> > > I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
> > > worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
> > > there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest M

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Harold Bledsoe]

I'd say that the issue is not really related to WDS but the fact that
WDS is just a way to connect APs peer to peer.  There needs to be some
sort of intelligence on top of that that chooses channels, paths, etc.
Something more than STP or any other algorithm that doesn't understand
wireless.  :)  Then even if the algorithm understands wireless, if you
are using a single radio solution, there is considerable throughput lost
per hop due to this.  So ideally you would dedicate wireless interfaces
to each task of uplink, downlink, and serving customer (except the
gateway that has a wired uplink).

That's my take on it.

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:40:46 -0430

Mr. Bledsoe,

I've heard it said that WDS isn't the best option for mesh because  
under WDS each AP is going to repeat every packet regardless of the  
physical location and whether or not the data needs to pass that AP in  
order to get from the gateway AP to the AP the client for whom the  
data is for is associated with. It sounds like WDS works because of a  
shotgun approach, and routing be it STP or what ever just prevents  
loops. The folks that say this claim that for the best mesh  
performance, for "true mesh" one must use the adhoc mode so that only  
the AP nodes in the route of the data flow transmit that data. The  
folks that say this claim that WDS is not mesh, at least in their book.

Would you concur?

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are  
> talking
> about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>
> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
> strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the  
> best
> path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service  
> set
> to give high performance.
>
> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
> should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website  
> with
> the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
> outdoor selections).
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
> there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what  
> you
> are getting!
>
> -Hal
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>
> Mr. Burgess,
>
>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>
>   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
> bad?
>
> Greg
> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>> and it works :)
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>>

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

MikroTik has its MME implementation that is what should be used instead of 
using WDS for a mesh setup. MME is as true mesh as it gets. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Harold Bledsoe 

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:52:39 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
to give high performance.

On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
outdoor selections).

I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
are getting!

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
> and it works :)
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
> prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
> material from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>> MT and a consultant ;)
>>
>> /me laughing while running for cover
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Scott Vander Dussen 
>>
>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>
>>
>> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
>> just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
>> my feet wet and have some fun.
>>
>> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
>> worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
>> there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
>> could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
>> someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
>> would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
>> works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
>> advance.
>>
>> `S
>>
>> PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
>> how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
>> which != MT.  (:
>>
>>
>> -

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

>From experience this is not how the bridging used in MikroTik and its WDS 
>setup is doing. It only forward the traffic where it needs to go. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 11:40:46 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Mr. Bledsoe,

I've heard it said that WDS isn't the best option for mesh because  
under WDS each AP is going to repeat every packet regardless of the  
physical location and whether or not the data needs to pass that AP in  
order to get from the gateway AP to the AP the client for whom the  
data is for is associated with. It sounds like WDS works because of a  
shotgun approach, and routing be it STP or what ever just prevents  
loops. The folks that say this claim that for the best mesh  
performance, for "true mesh" one must use the adhoc mode so that only  
the AP nodes in the route of the data flow transmit that data. The  
folks that say this claim that WDS is not mesh, at least in their book.

Would you concur?

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are  
> talking
> about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>
> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
> strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the  
> best
> path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service  
> set
> to give high performance.
>
> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
> should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website  
> with
> the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
> outdoor selections).
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
> there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what  
> you
> are getting!
>
> -Hal
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>
> Mr. Burgess,
>
>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>
>   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
> bad?
>
> Greg
> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>> and it works :)
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
>> prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
>> material from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>>> MT and a consultant ;)
>>>
>>> /me laughing while running for cover
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>
>>> -Original Message

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Jack Unger]

I think you are making the point that "mesh" is a very broad term; it's
like "happiness" - there are many flavors...

Harold Bledsoe wrote:

  Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
to give high performance.

On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
outdoor selections).

I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
are getting!

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

Mr. Burgess,

	What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

	Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

  
  
Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
and it works :)

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net

*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*


The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
prohibited, If you
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
material from any computer.





e...@wisp-router.com wrote:


  MT and a consultant ;)

/me laughing while running for cover

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Scott Vander Dussen 

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
my feet wet and have some fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
which != MT.  (:



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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

Mr. Bledsoe,

I've heard it said that WDS isn't the best option for mesh because  
under WDS each AP is going to repeat every packet regardless of the  
physical location and whether or not the data needs to pass that AP in  
order to get from the gateway AP to the AP the client for whom the  
data is for is associated with. It sounds like WDS works because of a  
shotgun approach, and routing be it STP or what ever just prevents  
loops. The folks that say this claim that for the best mesh  
performance, for "true mesh" one must use the adhoc mode so that only  
the AP nodes in the route of the data flow transmit that data. The  
folks that say this claim that WDS is not mesh, at least in their book.

Would you concur?

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:22 AM, Harold Bledsoe wrote:

> Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are  
> talking
> about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds
>
> If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
> There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
> infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
> strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the  
> best
> path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service  
> set
> to give high performance.
>
> On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
> mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
> should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website  
> with
> the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
> outdoor selections).
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
> there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what  
> you
> are getting!
>
> -Hal
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430
>
> Mr. Burgess,
>
>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too
> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>
>   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
> bad?
>
> Greg
> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>> and it works :)
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
>> prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
>> material from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>>> MT and a consultant ;)
>>>
>>> /me laughing while running for cover
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Scott Vander Dussen 
>>>
>>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>
>>>
>>> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city
>>> just for kicks.  Low budget (

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scott Vander Dussen]

Jerry-
Thanks - is the Engenius product no longer supported?  I couldn't find anything 
on Engenius website about it and seems like only a few distributors have this 
product in stock.  Deliberant is in the same enclosure as OSBridge uses for 
their full duplex backhauls.

It'd be cool to combo a bullet5 and pico hp2 with a crossover harness that 
injects power where the bullet5 + omni would BH the devices and the pico would 
provide service to end users.  Seems like you'd get a ghetto mesh for ~130/node.

Thanks,
`S

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

I just went through this exercise - spent hours looking at various options.

Deliberant and Engenius are the two options I arrived at. These seemed like the 
best price/performance to me and are refined enough to be easily supported. 
It's not true Mesh but rather WDS distribution via radio 1 and client access on 
radio 2
- Engenius EOC-7550 Dual radio AP (4 SSID/VLAN) - 199 - cheesy omni's included 
I think
- Deliberant DUO Dual radio AP (16 SSID/VLAN) - 349 - no antennas

If you can get away with a single radio WDS setup, then the costs drop through 
the floor - Sprinkle them around like chicklets:
- Ubiquity Pico, Nano, etc - 49 and up
- Engenius - copy cats - 49 and up
- Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT
- etc

If it really needs to be mesh then the two lowest cost options I found
are:
- MikroTik with two radios - 349/kit assembled - no antennas
- Ligowave DUO and Quad - 1k and up - no antennas



__
Jerry Richardson
airCloud Communications

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. 
 Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some 
fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).
Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - 
is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - 
thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.
(:




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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Scott Vander Dussen]

**sigh**  So anyhow, about my chest hair..

`S

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 7:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!

I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on
an old PC first.

Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the
something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

> The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.
> If
> you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
> see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,
> maybe.  lol.
>
> There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
> can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is
> not
> the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
> that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
> implement it.  its not "paste it in" and magic happens.
>
> As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
> agree there?
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
> prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
> material from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Mr. Burgess,
>>
>>  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making
>> too
>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
>> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
>> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>
>>  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
>> bad?
>>
>> Greg
>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done
>>> that
>>> and it works :)
>>>
>>> * ---
>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>>
>>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
>>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
>>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
>>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
>>> prohibited, If you
>>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
>>> material from any computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>>>
>>&g

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Harold Bledsoe]

Well there is also the mesh part too.  Is this what you guys are talking
about when you say MT mesh:  http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Mesh_wds

If so, I would disagree that this is a "good" mesh implementation.
There are many, many more factors to consider when building an
infrastructure mesh.  The LigoMesh products take into account signal
strength, hops from GW, node load, datarate, etc. to calculate the best
path.  Also, there are dedicated radios for uplink/downlink/service set
to give high performance.

On the other hand, if you don't need a carrier-grade infrastructure
mesh, Wiligear products based on the WBD-500 do support Open-Mesh and
should be available in the very near future on Streakwave's website with
the option to have them preloaded with Open-mesh (board, indoor, and
outdoor selections).

I guess what I'm saying is that not all products are created equal and
there is certainly a place for each one.  Just be sure you know what you
are getting!

-Hal


-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 -0430

Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
> and it works :)
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
> prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
> material from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>> MT and a consultant ;)
>>
>> /me laughing while running for cover
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Scott Vander Dussen 
>>
>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>
>>
>> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
>> just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
>> my feet wet and have some fun.
>>
>> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
>> worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
>> there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
>> could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
>> someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
>> would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
>> works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
>> advance.
>>
>> `S
>>
>> PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
>> how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
>> which != MT.  (:
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
&

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

Mr. Burgess and the others who responded - thanks!

I just downloaded Winbox and I'll be trying it with the x86 version on  
an old PC first.

Mikrotik seems inevitable if one's network progresses beyond the  
something very small and simple. Thanks for the push!

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

> The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.   
> If
> you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can
> see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic,  
> maybe.  lol.
>
> There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you
> can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is  
> not
> the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line
> that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to
> implement it.  its not "paste it in" and magic happens.
>
> As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would
> agree there?
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> 
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> 
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
> prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
> material from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Mr. Burgess,
>>
>>  What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears
>> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it
>> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't
>> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly
>> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making  
>> too
>> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So
>> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the
>> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such
>> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>>
>>  Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that
>> bad?
>>
>> Greg
>> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done  
>>> that
>>> and it works :)
>>>
>>> * ---
>>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
>>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>>> 
>>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>>> 
>>>
>>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by
>>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is
>>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged
>>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,
>>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by
>>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is
>>> prohibited, If you
>>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
>>> material from any computer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>>>
 MT and a consultant ;)

 /me laughing while running for cover

 Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

 -Original Message-
 From: Scott Vander Dussen 

 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


 Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city
 just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get
 my feet wet and have some fun.

 I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it
 worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping
 there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I
 could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and
 someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises
 would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP -

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Dennis Burgess]

One of the big things with MT as David said, is that normally people are 
used to doing "routing" on one device.  Now you have 800+ things it can 
do.  Putting it all together is the hard part.

I do a training class on-line, that is designed to teach everything 
about RouterOS.  We teach TCP/IP, routing, and how data flows as well.

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 
<http://www.linktechs.net/>
*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 
<http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>

The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
> Winbox. Then very little need for CLI. There is nothing you can not do 
> through winbox that you can not do through CLI. Scripting most people do not 
> use it or just use it to execute simple CLI instructions. You have a bunch of 
> script samples on wiki.mikrotik.com. 
> Like with any advanced networking product there is a little learning curve. 
> But reason why most people have problems getting a grip on MikroTik is that 
> their network knowledge is limited so they have problem understanding the 
> routing concept and understanding how ip works and flows with its source 
> ports, destination ports so they have issues creating firewall rules etc. On 
> the WISP-Training Mikrotik class (the training material Butch and me created) 
> the primary reason it was created was to teach how routing, sub netting and 
> ip flows worked and of course from a view point in how to configure this with 
> MikroTik. It's a whole lot easier to get running then say a Cisco router 
> where everything have to be CLI and firewalling rule creation imo is very 
> cryptic and not very straight forward. 
>
> /Eje Gustafsson
> CTO
> WISP-Router, Inc
> Bringing MikroTik to the masses since 2002. 
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: os10ru...@gmail.com
>
> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>
> Mr. Burgess,
>
>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>
>   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
> bad?
>
> Greg
> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>   
>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>> and it works :)
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
>> prohibited, If you
>> received

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Dennis Burgess]

The winbox interface will do everything you need in the mesh setup.  If 
you want a turn key solution, its not what you are going to use. I can 
see that as you want something you plug in and it does magic, maybe.  lol. 

There is no scripting that is needed in mikrotik, and like I said, you 
can use Winbox for all configuration changes.  The web interface is not 
the way to go at all.There is a on-line Wiki, and a manual on-line 
that will tell you what you need to know, but you have to know how to 
implement it.  its not "paste it in" and magic happens. 

As far as making the leap, man I don't think so.  Eje I am sure would 
agree there?

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 


The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
> Mr. Burgess,
>
>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
> detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
> much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
> because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
> leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
> as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.
>
>   Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
> bad?
>
> Greg
> On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:
>
>   
>> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
>> and it works :)
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> 
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> 
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
>> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
>> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
>> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
>> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
>> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
>> prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
>> material from any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>> 
>>> MT and a consultant ;)
>>>
>>> /me laughing while running for cover
>>>
>>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Scott Vander Dussen 
>>>
>>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>>
>>>
>>> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
>>> just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
>>> my feet wet and have some fun.
>>>
>>> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
>>> worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
>>> there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
>>> could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
>>> someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
>>> would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
>>> works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
>>> advance.
>>>
>>> `S
>>>
>>> PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
>>> how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
>>> which != MT.  (:
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://sig

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

Winbox. Then very little need for CLI. There is nothing you can not do through 
winbox that you can not do through CLI. Scripting most people do not use it or 
just use it to execute simple CLI instructions. You have a bunch of script 
samples on wiki.mikrotik.com. 
Like with any advanced networking product there is a little learning curve. But 
reason why most people have problems getting a grip on MikroTik is that their 
network knowledge is limited so they have problem understanding the routing 
concept and understanding how ip works and flows with its source ports, 
destination ports so they have issues creating firewall rules etc. On the 
WISP-Training Mikrotik class (the training material Butch and me created) the 
primary reason it was created was to teach how routing, sub netting and ip 
flows worked and of course from a view point in how to configure this with 
MikroTik. It's a whole lot easier to get running then say a Cisco router where 
everything have to be CLI and firewalling rule creation imo is very cryptic and 
not very straight forward. 

/Eje Gustafsson
CTO
WISP-Router, Inc
Bringing MikroTik to the masses since 2002. 
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: os10ru...@gmail.com

Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 10:38:04 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
> and it works :)
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
> prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
> material from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>> MT and a consultant ;)
>>
>> /me laughing while running for cover
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Scott Vander Dussen 
>>
>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>
>>
>> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
>> just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
>> my feet wet and have some fun.
>>
>> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
>> worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
>> there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
>> could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
>> someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
>> would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
>> works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
>> advance.
>>
>> `S
>>
>> PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
>> how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
>> which != MT.  (:
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> -

Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[David E. Smith]

os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:

>   What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
> the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
> sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
> see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
> detailed help/wiki online.

The Web interface is kinda a joke, but the preferred GUI is probably 
"Winbox" anyway. Winbox is a small proprietary (and Windows-only) 
utility, that you can download via the Web interface, that exposes most 
functionality.

The documentation on Mikrotik's Web site is actually pretty thorough, 
with the caveat that it's always about one version behind. The wiki 
isn't the best, but it has a few clever tricks here and there.

Mikrotik RouterOS's greatest strength is that you can do just about 
anything with it - the same device can do routing, firewalling, traffic 
shaping, BGP, wireless access, wireless client, RADIUS, and about 873 
other things. Its greatest weakness is that you can do just about 
anything with it ...

Fortunately, just about everything is turned off by default, and you can 
usually just ignore the features you're not using. :)

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

Mr. Burgess,

What frightens me about taking the leap into Mikrotik is it appears  
the web interface is of no use in the advanced configuration and it  
sounds like one must get heavily into the CLI and scripting. I don't  
see an online repository of scripts for programming or even a highly  
detailed help/wiki online. I'm guessing too many people are making too  
much money doing their Mikrotik training to give it away for free. So  
because of the apparently steep learning curve I'm leery to make the  
leap. The more easily configurable (and less powerful) solutions such  
as Ubiquiti look more appealing to me at this point.

Would you disagree with my perspective? Is making the leap not that  
bad?

Greg
On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

> Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that
> and it works :)
>
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> 
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> 
>
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by  
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is  
> intended only for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged  
> material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of,  
> or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by  
> persons or entities other than the intended recipient(s) is  
> prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the  
> material from any computer.
>
>
>
>
>
> e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
>> MT and a consultant ;)
>>
>> /me laughing while running for cover
>>
>> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Scott Vander Dussen 
>>
>> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>>
>>
>> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city  
>> just for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get  
>> my feet wet and have some fun.
>>
>> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it  
>> worked good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping  
>> there is was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I  
>> could ask for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and  
>> someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises  
>> would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that  
>> works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in  
>> advance.
>>
>> `S
>>
>> PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and  
>> how it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play  
>> which != MT.  (:
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Dennis Burgess]

Ya, don't know why ya don't want a MT solution.  Been there done that 
and it works :) 

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 


The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the 
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only 
for the person(s) or entity/entities to which 
it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any 
review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action 
in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the 
intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you 
received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from 
any computer.

 



e...@wisp-router.com wrote:
> MT and a consultant ;)
>
> /me laughing while running for cover
>  
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Vander Dussen 
>
> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03 
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>
> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for 
> kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and 
> have some fun.
>
> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
> enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
> solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
> how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like 
> Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware 
> that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.
>
> `S
>
> PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
> save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.  (:
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>   



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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[Charles Wu]

A new movement started after Meraki turned to the "dark-side" a few years ago

Open Mesh Picks Up Where Meraki Left Off
As in, dirt cheap mesh networking gear for communities

A new mesh-networking project by the co-founder of NetEquality and the 
developer of mesh-networking management software might give Meraki a run for 
their money. Well perhaps not, but at least they're taking aim at the low-cost 
Wi-Fi market Meraki targeted before recent business decisions threw their 
original promise off course.
http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/Open-Mesh-Picks-Up-Where-Meraki-Left-Off-92532

More info on Open Mesh
http://www.open-mesh.com/store/

-Charles

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Scott Vander Dussen
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 11:13 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. 
 Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some 
fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like 
Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware 
that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.  (:



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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

One more thing I forgot, if you want to use something that is more  
experimental, more do-it-yourself and which supports a greater variety  
of hardware there is OpenWRT's firmware with mesh and also 
http://nightwing.lugro-mesh.org.ar/en/ 
. These are options using routing options such as BATMAN/Robin, OLSRd  
and such. As I understand it in true mesh the boxes run in the ad hoc  
mode instead of wds which reduces redundant retransmission resulting  
in better throughput.

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just  
> for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my  
> feet wet and have some fun.
>
> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked  
> good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is  
> was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask  
> for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will  
> mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be  
> cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on  
> those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.
>
> `S
>
> PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how  
> it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which ! 
> = MT.  (:
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[os10rules]

I haven't used this stuff but I've been researching it and have  
contacted the companies. One is some ready-made two radio (2.4ghz for  
clients, 5ghz for backhaul) mesh hardware from Wiligear 
http://www.wiligear.com/?q=products/mesh/wbd-212 
  which still requires to you package it up (enclosure, antennas, poe)  
and another possibility in the future is a single radio option 
http://open-mesh.com/ 
. Their web site only shows low end consumer hardware but they are  
working on a firmware for the Picostation2 HP to be available "soon"  
so this one isn't available just yet. They don't foresee support for  
the NS2 because it doesn't have enough memory. One more option which  
is the most plug and play of the alternatives I know of is 
http://www.kalpeshwireless.com/ 
. You can buy the NS2s from them with their firmware preloaded or load  
it yourself if you already have the hardware. You can manage the whole  
network through the web (their servers). This is available  
immediately. I will be trying this last option myself in the near  
future.

Greg

On Feb 17, 2009, at 12:43 AM, Scott Vander Dussen wrote:

> Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just  
> for kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my  
> feet wet and have some fun.
>
> I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked  
> good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is  
> was a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask  
> for a recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will  
> mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be  
> cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on  
> those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.
>
> `S
>
> PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how  
> it can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which ! 
> = MT.  (:
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[eje]

MT and a consultant ;)

/me laughing while running for cover
 
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: Scott Vander Dussen 

Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 21:13:03 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks


Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for kicks. 
 Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet and have some 
fun.

I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked good 
enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was a turn-key 
solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a recommendation on 
how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).  Anyhow, turn-key like 
Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the Pico2HP - is there a firmware 
that works on those that could mesh?  Very new to mesh - thanks in advance.

`S

PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it can 
save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.  (:



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Re: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks

[3-dB Networks]

Ruckus now has a full outdoor radio that would work great for this... easy
to manage and setup.  But the cost will probably kill your budget (I think
the full outdoor units cost around $1k or so... haven't seen the price on
them yet).  The controller would add some cost too.  But it would be a high
quality system.

You could probably also pick up some Tropos boxes relatively cheap.
Managing/setting up the system might be more effort than you want to give
it.

Just remember... you don't want to mesh more than three nodes :-)

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of Scott Vander Dussen
>Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 10:13 PM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: [WISPA] Mesh just for kicks
>
>Looking to deploy a small mesh network downtown in a small city just for
>kicks.  Low budget ($4k for ~10 nodes) - just want to get my feet wet
>and have some fun.
>
>I'd charge for the service if it was easy enough to do and it worked
>good enough to justify a cost, otherwise free.  Was hoping there is was
>a turn-key solution (PLEASE don't suggest Mikrotik - I could ask for a
>recommendation on how to remove chest hair and someone will mention MT).
>Anyhow, turn-key like Meraki advertises would be cool.  How about the
>Pico2HP - is there a firmware that works on those that could mesh?  Very
>new to mesh - thanks in advance.
>
>`S
>
>PS- Please don't hijack the thread defending how great MT is and how it
>can save the world etc.. not bashing, just want plug+play which != MT.
>(:
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




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