Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
Let's be fair here, it is unlikely that certification would make them cost $1000. John Charles Wu wrote: Honestly, Would you buy RB112/532/whatever boards if they cost $1k vs $100 each? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans I would disagree with that. Further, I would say that most of the folks using an MT/StarOS system would tell you that price had little or nothing to do with their decision. There are plenty of solutions available that are just as cheap as building your own, perhaps cheaper - all things considered. On 4/1/07, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And then the issue becomes how much that vendor is going to mark-up the product, in addition to the FCC cert costs for all their time, efforts, etc. Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is everyone's limit? ;) Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC certification? Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR vendor and asking them to do the same. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chad Halsted The Computer Works Conway, AR www.tcworks.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
We have moved all our new AP installs to Deliberant gear. It has been pretty good thus far and it is FCC certified :-P I think that MT and StarOS would be "way yonder farther" ahead by having their boards certified with a few of the radios out there. I know that we have NOT bought MT or StarOS for these last 5 new APs. I understand that don't really hurt them, but when we all have to choose something different - - that will make a difference. Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ralph Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 5:15 PM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans Probably because some of you you guys still buy them- certified or not. Hit them in the pocketbook. Tell them to help you follow the law in the US. Then support vendors who DO. Sure it'll hurt a little at first, but MT and the others could do it, and it wouldn't be as hard as y'all think. And I think Mac's right. There's plenty of reasonably priced gear whose manufacturers do make it possible for you to stay legal. A Canopy SU isn't near $1000.00. Deliberant and Tranzeo sure aren't! Even some Alvarions are under that price. I haven't bought a Trango so I don't know the price. All certified. All Manufacturers who are supporting and facilitating your ability to operate legally. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans Then, he asked simply, why don't they just get their gear certified? Mac Dearman wrote: >Getting MT or StarOS FCC certified would never make the prices soar to $1k >each :-) > >Mac -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
Probably because some of you you guys still buy them- certified or not. Hit them in the pocketbook. Tell them to help you follow the law in the US. Then support vendors who DO. Sure it'll hurt a little at first, but MT and the others could do it, and it wouldn't be as hard as y'all think. And I think Mac's right. There's plenty of reasonably priced gear whose manufacturers do make it possible for you to stay legal. A Canopy SU isn't near $1000.00. Deliberant and Tranzeo sure aren't! Even some Alvarions are under that price. I haven't bought a Trango so I don't know the price. All certified. All Manufacturers who are supporting and facilitating your ability to operate legally. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Peter R. Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 9:49 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans Then, he asked simply, why don't they just get their gear certified? Mac Dearman wrote: >Getting MT or StarOS FCC certified would never make the prices soar to $1k >each :-) > >Mac -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Device capabilties (was RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans)
> I can do things most other wireless manufacturers 'won't" > (networking features at the AP or CPE). > Many manufactures concern themselves with the performance of their radios. Adding additional networking features requires either a bigger CPU or less throughput for the radio. > The future of wireless is mesh or mesh type topographies. > (OLSR/OSPF) Even of I used a boxed bridged solution of very > high quality such as Alvarion, Trango, Moto, etc, I would > still have to buy a router-wireless soultion for the router > and diversity customer delivery. > I disagree that the future of wireless is mesh. Mesh is one architecture that has a place, but I don't expect every topology to move to mesh. For example, enforcing SLAs is much more difficult when a mesh topology is used. I would also add that OSPF doesn't do well in a mesh topology. > Why bother with the boxed bridge solution in the first place? > In our case, it allows us to have a proper seperation of concerns. Specifically, the radios bridge one location to another, while our routing equipment focuses on routing. In this way, each device does what it was designed to do. -Matt -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
Thats the way I see it David. I can do things most other wireless manufacturers 'won't" (networking features at the AP or CPE). The future of wireless is mesh or mesh type topographies. (OLSR/OSPF) Even of I used a boxed bridged solution of very high quality such as Alvarion, Trango, Moto, etc, I would still have to buy a router-wireless soultion for the router and diversity customer delivery. Why bother with the boxed bridge solution in the first place? The hardware we choose is whats the best at the time for the software. And it gets better and better all the time. David Sovereen wrote: I disagree completely. The choice to use MT or StarOS has nothing to do with the hardware. My decision to use MT was entirely based on the software features. Some of my MTs run on Routerboards, others do not. If the Routerboard hardware meets my needs at a price I like, I use it. If it doesn't, I use something else. But I always use MT :-) Dave - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans ... Mikrotik, StarOS, etc. are selling because of price. The extra features are just a bonus. :) ... -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
I disagree completely. The choice to use MT or StarOS has nothing to do with the hardware. My decision to use MT was entirely based on the software features. Some of my MTs run on Routerboards, others do not. If the Routerboard hardware meets my needs at a price I like, I use it. If it doesn't, I use something else. But I always use MT :-) Dave - Original Message - From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans ... Mikrotik, StarOS, etc. are selling because of price. The extra features are just a bonus. :) ... -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
We are just in the early stages of doing a group effort. The reason why these guys don't is kind of shallow in some respects. They need to certify it so they can build a complete solution. Once they sell a kit and we change things around and build it ourselves, it's no longer "that" certified system. But the previous certs "can" be used to lessen the cost of a new certification, is the original certifier allows this. Peter R. wrote: Then, he asked simply, why don't they just get their gear certified? Mac Dearman wrote: Getting MT or StarOS FCC certified would never make the prices soar to $1k each :-) Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans Honestly, Would you buy RB112/532/whatever boards if they cost $1k vs $100 each? -Charles -- George Rogato Welcome to WISPA www.wispa.org http://signup.wispa.org/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
Then, he asked simply, why don't they just get their gear certified? Mac Dearman wrote: Getting MT or StarOS FCC certified would never make the prices soar to $1k each :-) Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans Honestly, Would you buy RB112/532/whatever boards if they cost $1k vs $100 each? -Charles -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
Getting MT or StarOS FCC certified would never make the prices soar to $1k each :-) Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Wu Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:45 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans Honestly, Would you buy RB112/532/whatever boards if they cost $1k vs $100 each? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans I would disagree with that. Further, I would say that most of the folks using an MT/StarOS system would tell you that price had little or nothing to do with their decision. There are plenty of solutions available that are just as cheap as building your own, perhaps cheaper - all things considered. On 4/1/07, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And then the issue becomes how much that vendor is going to mark-up > the product, in addition to the FCC cert costs for all their time, efforts, etc. > > Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How > many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is > everyone's limit? ;) > > Travis > Microserv > > Butch Evans wrote: > > On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > > > >> As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this > >> country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the > >> radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could > >> that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their > >> boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC > >> certification? > > > > Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they > > build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify > > some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR > > vendor and asking them to do the same. > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Chad Halsted The Computer Works Conway, AR www.tcworks.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
*high fives charles* On 4/2/07 3:44 PM, "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Honestly, > > Would you buy RB112/532/whatever boards if they cost $1k vs $100 each? > > -Charles > > > --- > WiNOG Wireless Roadshows > Coming to a City Near You > http://www.winog.com > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Chad Halsted > Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:20 PM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch > Evans > > I would disagree with that. > > Further, I would say that most of the folks using an MT/StarOS system > would tell you that price had little or nothing to do with their > decision. There are plenty of solutions available that are just as > cheap as building your own, perhaps cheaper - all things considered. > > > > On 4/1/07, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> And then the issue becomes how much that vendor is going to mark-up >> the product, in addition to the FCC cert costs for all their time, > efforts, etc. >> >> Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How >> many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is >> everyone's limit? ;) >> >> Travis >> Microserv >> >> Butch Evans wrote: >>> On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: >>> >>>> As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this >>>> country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the >>>> radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could > >>>> that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their >>>> boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC >>>> certification? >>> >>> Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they > >>> build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify >>> some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR >>> vendor and asking them to do the same. >>> >> -- >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ >> > > > -- > Chad Halsted > The Computer Works > Conway, AR > www.tcworks.net > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
I can tell you now, the sales volume would be MUCH less if the price went up... yes, they have great functionality, but a lot of people are buying them because of the price alone. Even if an RB532 went up to only $200, it becomes more cost effective to buy Trango, Canopy, etc. for less money (because you still have to add antenna, radio card, pigtail, etc.). Mikrotik, StarOS, etc. are selling because of price. The extra features are just a bonus. :) Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Travis Johnson wrote: Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is everyone's limit? ;) I can't speak for others, but I would assume that most people buy them for the same reason I do (did)...Function. It has nothing to do with cost, though that is certainly a factor. I can't speculate on how many would buy if it were $500 (or whatever)... -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
On Sun, 1 Apr 2007, Travis Johnson wrote: Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is everyone's limit? ;) I can't speak for others, but I would assume that most people buy them for the same reason I do (did)...Function. It has nothing to do with cost, though that is certainly a factor. I can't speculate on how many would buy if it were $500 (or whatever)... -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
Yep, price has nothing to do with it from our perspective. All about the options @ the antenna. Ospf. Routing. Hotspot. On every rooftop.That brings mesh on the next go around. Very important in the long run. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 6:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans I would disagree with that. Further, I would say that most of the folks using an MT/StarOS system would tell you that price had little or nothing to do with their decision. There are plenty of solutions available that are just as cheap as building your own, perhaps cheaper - all things considered. On 4/1/07, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And then the issue becomes how much that vendor is going to mark-up the > product, in addition to the FCC cert costs for all their time, efforts, etc. > > Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How > many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is > everyone's limit? ;) > > Travis > Microserv > > Butch Evans wrote: > > On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > > > >> As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this > >> country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the > >> radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could > >> that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their > >> boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC > >> certification? > > > > Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they > > build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify > > some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR > > vendor and asking them to do the same. > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Chad Halsted The Computer Works Conway, AR www.tcworks.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
Honestly, Would you buy RB112/532/whatever boards if they cost $1k vs $100 each? -Charles --- WiNOG Wireless Roadshows Coming to a City Near You http://www.winog.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chad Halsted Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:20 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans I would disagree with that. Further, I would say that most of the folks using an MT/StarOS system would tell you that price had little or nothing to do with their decision. There are plenty of solutions available that are just as cheap as building your own, perhaps cheaper - all things considered. On 4/1/07, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And then the issue becomes how much that vendor is going to mark-up > the product, in addition to the FCC cert costs for all their time, efforts, etc. > > Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How > many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is > everyone's limit? ;) > > Travis > Microserv > > Butch Evans wrote: > > On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > > > >> As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this > >> country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the > >> radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could > >> that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their > >> boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC > >> certification? > > > > Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they > > build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify > > some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR > > vendor and asking them to do the same. > > > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Chad Halsted The Computer Works Conway, AR www.tcworks.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
I would disagree with that. Further, I would say that most of the folks using an MT/StarOS system would tell you that price had little or nothing to do with their decision. There are plenty of solutions available that are just as cheap as building your own, perhaps cheaper - all things considered. On 4/1/07, Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And then the issue becomes how much that vendor is going to mark-up the product, in addition to the FCC cert costs for all their time, efforts, etc. Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is everyone's limit? ;) Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: > On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: > >> As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this >> country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the >> radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could >> that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their >> boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC >> certification? > > Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they > build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify > some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR > vendor and asking them to do the same. > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chad Halsted The Computer Works Conway, AR www.tcworks.net -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
Travis, Are you saying there are Wireless Provider business models in the US that can't handle certified equipment? What do you suppose that says for the industry? Regards, Dawn DiPietro Travis Johnson wrote: And then the issue becomes how much that vendor is going to mark-up the product, in addition to the FCC cert costs for all their time, efforts, etc. Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is everyone's limit? ;) Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC certification? Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR vendor and asking them to do the same. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
As Butch states (in general) each complete system needs to be individually certified however, the lab that I work with has advised that: IF the vendor (or WISP) that obtains the original certification Grant chooses to make their complete system specifications public rather than asking the FCC to keep some of the system data confidential, then other WISPs could build EXACT DUPLICATES of the certified system without being required to run the duplicate system through the lab certification process again. The EXACT DUPLICATE will still need to have correct labeling on it saying, in effect, (I need to check to get the exact, legal FCC verbiage) "this system contains the same components that were already certified under FCC Grant XXXYYY". Even the software needs to be the same so that only the authorized channels, channel widths, modulation modes, etc. are selectable. The company building, labeling, and deploying the exact duplicate is responsible for the correct legal operation of the system. If the FCC comes to your door to inspect, the system better be EXACTLY THE SAME as the system that it claims to be a legal duplicate of. In the real world, I think the only way building an EXACT DUPLICATE is going to be practical is if the original Grantee holder is willing to cooperate with the companies that want to build the duplicates. For example, I could see "Acme Wireless" certifying a system, deploying it and also offering it for sale as a certified system but I don't think they would welcome other WISPs just making EXACT KNOCKOFFS and deploying those without having to bear any certification costs. This doesn't mean there aren't a few organizations that might certify a complete system and then publish all the details so exact copies could be made by others, just that there may not be very many such organizations. Another possibility is for a small group of WISPs to get together and standardize on one common AP or CPE design, then select one trusted WISP to officially get the Grant but all of the other WISPs pay for an equal share of the certification costs. If Butch (or anyone) has additions, corrections or questions about the above information, please post it/them and I'll go back to the lab that I'm working with and request further clarification. jack Butch Evans wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC certification? Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR vendor and asking them to do the same. -- Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc. FCC License # PG-12-25133 Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993 Author of the WISP Handbook - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs" True Vendor-Neutral Wireless Consulting-Training-Troubleshooting Phone (VoIP Over Broadband Wireless) 818-227-4220 www.ask-wi.com -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
And then the issue becomes how much that vendor is going to mark-up the product, in addition to the FCC cert costs for all their time, efforts, etc. Isn't the reason most people are using MT is because of the cost? How many people would buy a RB532 if it was $500? or $1,000? What is everyone's limit? ;) Travis Microserv Butch Evans wrote: On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC certification? Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR vendor and asking them to do the same. -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Doug Ratcliffe wrote: As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC certification? Each particular vendor will need a cert for the complete system they build. FWIW, I have been pushing MANY vendors to build and certify some Mikrotik radios. You can help yourself here by going to YOUR vendor and asking them to do the same. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007, Mac Dearman wrote: So I wonder what Butch thinks about MikroTik? :-) Mac..you cracker! You gotta KNOW. :-) -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007, John Scrivner wrote: lists out there. Butch is one of my favorite people in this industry. He is not just a good consultant, he is a good person who genuinely cares about the people as much as the work. He is a Thank you for the very kind introduction. And thank you as well for your own dedication to this industry. Your efforts (along with those of many others) is instrumental in ALL our successes. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
As far as Mikrotik goes, if any one/more/all MT vendor(s) in this country paid an FCC lab to certify the boards/radios (can't the radios/antennas can be modular certified by Ubiquiti/Senao?), could that work as a blanket certification that MT could attach to their boards/radios, or does each individual unit/vendor need an FCC certification? - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:23 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans > Coolness! Welcome aboard Butch! > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:00 PM > Subject: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans > > > >I am sure many of you know a friend of mine, Butch Evans, who has been > > here helping for as long as I can remember on all the WISP lists out > > there. Butch is one of my favorite people in this industry. He is not > > just a good consultant, he is a good person who genuinely cares about > > the people as much as the work. He is a friend and I am very happy to be > > making his introduction here today. Butch has helped WISPA by serving on > > our nominations committee and CALEA committee and has supported our > > efforts to build WISPA since the beginning. He signed up as an Associate > > Member a while back and has now upgraded his membership to a full Vendor > > Membership in WISPA. This makes him our first WISP Consultant Vendor > > Member I believe. You are one of the truly good ones Butch Evans and I > > thank you for making this step up in WISPA. Here is some background > > information about Butch in his own words: > > > > In January of 1994, I began working as an ISP with a small company in > > rural south east Missouri. I have been (since then) either an employee > > of or partner in 4 ISPs. The ISP business is a passion for me. I have > > spent countless hours reading and "tinkering" with my network. During > > the period of 1994-2006, I have become quite proficient with network > > designs that make an ISP network behave as it should. > > > > In 2001, I began using Mikrotik RouterOS on my network to build out my > > infrastructure. This software (in my opinion) fills nearly every need > > that most small ISPs or other small businesses could ever need for a > > routing infrastructure. I began working on a curriculum to train other > > ISPs about this software in 2003 as part of a partnership with > > WISP-Router that we called WISP-Training. The WISP-Training > > organization has trained HUNDREDS of WISPs, small business, hobbyists > > and government employees to use the Mikrotik software. I am 1 of only 2 > > certified Mikrotik RouterOS trainers in the United States. > > > > In February 2006, I went full time in consulting and training. My time > > is dedicated to assisting WISPs in building, troubleshooting and > > designing their networks. As much as I misss being an ISP, teaching has > > become a real passion for me. I now have 2 fully developed training > > courses and will (by the end of the year) have another 2. I have > > training partnerships with several WISP equipment resellers and am > > working to develop further relationships in this area. > > > > Butch Evans Consulting is passionate about the WISP industry and our > > goal is to see your business succeed through proper network design, > > education and management of existing resources. > > > > -- > > Butch Evans > > Network Engineering and Security Consulting > > 573-276-2879 > > http://www.butchevans.com/ > > My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 > > Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf > > Mikrotik Certified Consultant > > http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html > > > > -- > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.413 / Virus Database: 268.18.23/740 - Release Date: 3/30/2007 > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
Coolness! Welcome aboard Butch! marlon - Original Message - From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: ; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:00 PM Subject: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans I am sure many of you know a friend of mine, Butch Evans, who has been here helping for as long as I can remember on all the WISP lists out there. Butch is one of my favorite people in this industry. He is not just a good consultant, he is a good person who genuinely cares about the people as much as the work. He is a friend and I am very happy to be making his introduction here today. Butch has helped WISPA by serving on our nominations committee and CALEA committee and has supported our efforts to build WISPA since the beginning. He signed up as an Associate Member a while back and has now upgraded his membership to a full Vendor Membership in WISPA. This makes him our first WISP Consultant Vendor Member I believe. You are one of the truly good ones Butch Evans and I thank you for making this step up in WISPA. Here is some background information about Butch in his own words: In January of 1994, I began working as an ISP with a small company in rural south east Missouri. I have been (since then) either an employee of or partner in 4 ISPs. The ISP business is a passion for me. I have spent countless hours reading and "tinkering" with my network. During the period of 1994-2006, I have become quite proficient with network designs that make an ISP network behave as it should. In 2001, I began using Mikrotik RouterOS on my network to build out my infrastructure. This software (in my opinion) fills nearly every need that most small ISPs or other small businesses could ever need for a routing infrastructure. I began working on a curriculum to train other ISPs about this software in 2003 as part of a partnership with WISP-Router that we called WISP-Training. The WISP-Training organization has trained HUNDREDS of WISPs, small business, hobbyists and government employees to use the Mikrotik software. I am 1 of only 2 certified Mikrotik RouterOS trainers in the United States. In February 2006, I went full time in consulting and training. My time is dedicated to assisting WISPs in building, troubleshooting and designing their networks. As much as I misss being an ISP, teaching has become a real passion for me. I now have 2 fully developed training courses and will (by the end of the year) have another 2. I have training partnerships with several WISP equipment resellers and am working to develop further relationships in this area. Butch Evans Consulting is passionate about the WISP industry and our goal is to see your business succeed through proper network design, education and management of existing resources. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans
So I wonder what Butch thinks about MikroTik? :-) Mac -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Scrivner Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 4:00 PM To: wireless@wispa.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WISPA] Our First WISP Consultant Vendor Member - Butch Evans I am sure many of you know a friend of mine, Butch Evans, who has been here helping for as long as I can remember on all the WISP lists out there. Butch is one of my favorite people in this industry. He is not just a good consultant, he is a good person who genuinely cares about the people as much as the work. He is a friend and I am very happy to be making his introduction here today. Butch has helped WISPA by serving on our nominations committee and CALEA committee and has supported our efforts to build WISPA since the beginning. He signed up as an Associate Member a while back and has now upgraded his membership to a full Vendor Membership in WISPA. This makes him our first WISP Consultant Vendor Member I believe. You are one of the truly good ones Butch Evans and I thank you for making this step up in WISPA. Here is some background information about Butch in his own words: In January of 1994, I began working as an ISP with a small company in rural south east Missouri. I have been (since then) either an employee of or partner in 4 ISPs. The ISP business is a passion for me. I have spent countless hours reading and "tinkering" with my network. During the period of 1994-2006, I have become quite proficient with network designs that make an ISP network behave as it should. In 2001, I began using Mikrotik RouterOS on my network to build out my infrastructure. This software (in my opinion) fills nearly every need that most small ISPs or other small businesses could ever need for a routing infrastructure. I began working on a curriculum to train other ISPs about this software in 2003 as part of a partnership with WISP-Router that we called WISP-Training. The WISP-Training organization has trained HUNDREDS of WISPs, small business, hobbyists and government employees to use the Mikrotik software. I am 1 of only 2 certified Mikrotik RouterOS trainers in the United States. In February 2006, I went full time in consulting and training. My time is dedicated to assisting WISPs in building, troubleshooting and designing their networks. As much as I misss being an ISP, teaching has become a real passion for me. I now have 2 fully developed training courses and will (by the end of the year) have another 2. I have training partnerships with several WISP equipment resellers and am working to develop further relationships in this area. Butch Evans Consulting is passionate about the WISP industry and our goal is to see your business succeed through proper network design, education and management of existing resources. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
