Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[can...@believewireless.net]

You can get an adapter that will convert your natural gas generator to
propane.  So, get natural gas but keep some propane tanks around with the
adapter if necessary.  We run natural gas and have never had a problem in 7
years.

On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> For emergency situations, never rely on someone else to do something in the
> event that they can't or won't (natural gas service being one).
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Zachery Wolfinger" 
> Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 12:34 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] propane generators?
>
> > One thing to consider with natural gas generators for NOCs is that in an
> > emergency, it's not unheard of for the city/fire department to cut both
> > electric and gas.  We ran into CLECS that had this happen to them when I
> > was
> > spec'ing out a new CO for a telco I used to work for.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Zak Wolfinger ­ IT Director
> > Cyberlink Technologies, Inc.
> > 888-293-3693 Ext 4357
> >
> >
> >> From: Dennis Burgess 
> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:11:09 -0600
> >> To: WISPA General List 
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] propane generators?
> >>
> >> We have a customer that has a natural gas connection at his NOC to the
> >> gas co.  Course, it was great for them to put an natural gas generator.
> >> WHen they don't need it, they don't store anything, but when they do,
> >> let it run!  Think they were on it for about 8 days straight without a
> >> hickup.
> >>
> >> If you go propane, figure what is longest it will take for someone to
> >> come out and fill it?  Lugging something around typically is not going
> >> to work.  Not to mention expensive and time consuming to keep it going.
> >> Plus, might have to shut it off to change tanks etc.  Most gas cos wil
> >> rent you a tank and place it for next to nothing, well at least in this
> >> area.  If you have a co come fill it, how long will it take to get them
> >> out there.  Weekend and emergency fills gets real expensive real quick,
> >> so figure you need to run 4 days at least on one tank..
> >>
> >> * ---
> >> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> >> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> >> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> >> WISPA Vendor Member*
> >> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> >> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> >> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> >> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
> >>
> >> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
> >> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended
> >> only
> >> for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> >> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
> >> Any
> >> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
> >> action
> >> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
> >> intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
> >> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
> material
> >> from
> >> any computer.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Patrick Shoemaker wrote:
> >>> Be careful if using this in cold climates at a remote site. Most
> diesels
> >>> will need a block heater in order to start under a certain temperature,
> >>> and powering a block heater at a solar site will not be practical. Your
> >>> odds of automatically starting a propane generator in cold temps are
> >>> much better than a diesel. Plus you run into algae problems with diesel
> >>> stored for long periods of time.
> >>>
> >>> Patrick Shoemaker
> >>> Vector Data Systems LLC
> >>> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> >>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> >>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas
>

Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[Mike Hammett]

For emergency situations, never rely on someone else to do something in the 
event that they can't or won't (natural gas service being one).


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Zachery Wolfinger" 
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 12:34 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

> One thing to consider with natural gas generators for NOCs is that in an
> emergency, it's not unheard of for the city/fire department to cut both
> electric and gas.  We ran into CLECS that had this happen to them when I 
> was
> spec'ing out a new CO for a telco I used to work for.
>
> Thank you,
> Zak Wolfinger ­ IT Director
> Cyberlink Technologies, Inc.
> 888-293-3693 Ext 4357
>
>
>> From: Dennis Burgess 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:11:09 -0600
>> To: WISPA General List 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] propane generators?
>>
>> We have a customer that has a natural gas connection at his NOC to the
>> gas co.  Course, it was great for them to put an natural gas generator.
>> WHen they don't need it, they don't store anything, but when they do,
>> let it run!  Think they were on it for about 8 days straight without a
>> hickup.
>>
>> If you go propane, figure what is longest it will take for someone to
>> come out and fill it?  Lugging something around typically is not going
>> to work.  Not to mention expensive and time consuming to keep it going.
>> Plus, might have to shut it off to change tanks etc.  Most gas cos wil
>> rent you a tank and place it for next to nothing, well at least in this
>> area.  If you have a co come fill it, how long will it take to get them
>> out there.  Weekend and emergency fills gets real expensive real quick,
>> so figure you need to run 4 days at least on one tank..
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
>> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended 
>> only
>> for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 
>> Any
>> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any 
>> action
>> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
>> intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material 
>> from
>> any computer.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Shoemaker wrote:
>>> Be careful if using this in cold climates at a remote site. Most diesels
>>> will need a block heater in order to start under a certain temperature,
>>> and powering a block heater at a solar site will not be practical. Your
>>> odds of automatically starting a propane generator in cold temps are
>>> much better than a diesel. Plus you run into algae problems with diesel
>>> stored for long periods of time.
>>>
>>> Patrick Shoemaker
>>> Vector Data Systems LLC
>>> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
>>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
>>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
>>>
>>>> I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas
>>>> units) I was really thinking about diesel rather than propane.  It'll
>>>> probably cost more money, but how do you lug a reasonably sized propane 
>>>> tank
>>>> up the hill when you can't drive to the site etc.?
>>>>
>>>> By using heating oil any gelling issues should be minimized.  Fuel 
>>>> deicer
>>>> (or whatever it's called) should help even more.
>>>>
>>>> Just my thoughts
>>>> Marlon
>>>> (509) 982-2181
>>>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
>>>> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 
>>>> 

Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[Josh Luthman]

Honestly when we got our gas generators it was the only thing we could find
(and we drove an hour and a half each way to get them).  I just came up with
the gas supply thing when Zachery brought up the fact propane/natural gas
gets shut off =)

They worked SO WELL the first week.  We filled them with gas and put
stabilizer it in to better prepare for the next hurricane in Ohio.  Time
will tell!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Patrick Shoemaker <
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com> wrote:

> That's a good thing to keep in mind. Also if you're in an earthquake
> prone area, gas lines can rupture at the same time underground
> substation feeders are cut.
>
> You're not completely protected from the fire department if you've got
> diesel generators, though. Take The Planet's multi-day outage last June
> for example- the FD rolled in and shut off all the diesel generators at
> the datacenter.
>
> Patrick Shoemaker
> Vector Data Systems LLC
> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>
>
> Zachery Wolfinger wrote:
> > One thing to consider with natural gas generators for NOCs is that in an
> > emergency, it's not unheard of for the city/fire department to cut both
> > electric and gas.  We ran into CLECS that had this happen to them when I
> was
> > spec'ing out a new CO for a telco I used to work for.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Zak Wolfinger ­ IT Director
> > Cyberlink Technologies, Inc.
> > 888-293-3693 Ext 4357
> >
> >
> >> From: Dennis Burgess 
> >> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:11:09 -0600
> >> To: WISPA General List 
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] propane generators?
> >>
> >> We have a customer that has a natural gas connection at his NOC to the
> >> gas co.  Course, it was great for them to put an natural gas generator.
> >> WHen they don't need it, they don't store anything, but when they do,
> >> let it run!  Think they were on it for about 8 days straight without a
> >> hickup.
> >>
> >> If you go propane, figure what is longest it will take for someone to
> >> come out and fill it?  Lugging something around typically is not going
> >> to work.  Not to mention expensive and time consuming to keep it going.
> >> Plus, might have to shut it off to change tanks etc.  Most gas cos wil
> >> rent you a tank and place it for next to nothing, well at least in this
> >> area.  If you have a co come fill it, how long will it take to get them
> >> out there.  Weekend and emergency fills gets real expensive real quick,
> >> so figure you need to run 4 days at least on one tank..
> >>
> >> * ---
> >> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> >> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> >> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> >> WISPA Vendor Member*
> >> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> >> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> >> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> >> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
> >>
> >> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
> >> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended
> only
> >> for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> >> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
> Any
> >> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
> action
> >> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
> >> intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
> >> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the
> material from
> >> any computer.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Patrick Shoemaker wrote:
> >>> Be careful if using this in cold climates at a remote site. Most
> diesels
> >>> will need a block heater in order to start under a certain temperature,
> >>> and powering a block heater at a solar site will not be practical. Your
> >>> odds of automatically starting a propane generator in cold temps are
> >>> much better than a diesel. Plus you run into algae problems with diesel

Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[Patrick Shoemaker]

That's a good thing to keep in mind. Also if you're in an earthquake 
prone area, gas lines can rupture at the same time underground 
substation feeders are cut.

You're not completely protected from the fire department if you've got 
diesel generators, though. Take The Planet's multi-day outage last June 
for example- the FD rolled in and shut off all the diesel generators at 
the datacenter.

Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Zachery Wolfinger wrote:
> One thing to consider with natural gas generators for NOCs is that in an
> emergency, it's not unheard of for the city/fire department to cut both
> electric and gas.  We ran into CLECS that had this happen to them when I was
> spec'ing out a new CO for a telco I used to work for.
> 
> Thank you,
> Zak Wolfinger ­ IT Director
> Cyberlink Technologies, Inc.
> 888-293-3693 Ext 4357
> 
> 
>> From: Dennis Burgess 
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:11:09 -0600
>> To: WISPA General List 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] propane generators?
>>
>> We have a customer that has a natural gas connection at his NOC to the
>> gas co.  Course, it was great for them to put an natural gas generator.
>> WHen they don't need it, they don't store anything, but when they do,
>> let it run!  Think they were on it for about 8 days straight without a
>> hickup. 
>>
>> If you go propane, figure what is longest it will take for someone to
>> come out and fill it?  Lugging something around typically is not going
>> to work.  Not to mention expensive and time consuming to keep it going.
>> Plus, might have to shut it off to change tanks etc.  Most gas cos wil
>> rent you a tank and place it for next to nothing, well at least in this
>> area.  If you have a co come fill it, how long will it take to get them
>> out there.  Weekend and emergency fills gets real expensive real quick,
>> so figure you need to run 4 days at least on one tank..
>>
>> * ---
>> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
>> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
>> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>> WISPA Vendor Member*
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
>> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
>> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
>>
>> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
>> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only
>> for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
>> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any
>> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any 
>> action
>> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
>> intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
>> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material 
>> from
>> any computer.
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick Shoemaker wrote:
>>> Be careful if using this in cold climates at a remote site. Most diesels
>>> will need a block heater in order to start under a certain temperature,
>>> and powering a block heater at a solar site will not be practical. Your
>>> odds of automatically starting a propane generator in cold temps are
>>> much better than a diesel. Plus you run into algae problems with diesel
>>> stored for long periods of time.
>>>
>>> Patrick Shoemaker
>>> Vector Data Systems LLC
>>> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
>>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
>>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
>>>   
>>>> I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas
>>>> units) I was really thinking about diesel rather than propane.  It'll
>>>> probably cost more money, but how do you lug a reasonably sized propane 
>>>> tank
>>>> up the hill when you can't drive to the site etc.?
>>>>
>>>> By using heating oil any gelling issues should be minimized.  Fuel deicer
>>>> (or whatever it's called) should help even more.
>>>>
>>>> Just my thoughts
>>>> Marlon
>>>> (509) 982-2181
>>>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consu

Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[Josh Luthman]

We bought gas generators.  Portable, briggs engines, gas can be found any
where any time.  Two circuits on them - manual says 42 amps total but we
don't even come close.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer


On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Zachery Wolfinger <
zwolfin...@cyberlinktech.com> wrote:

> One thing to consider with natural gas generators for NOCs is that in an
> emergency, it's not unheard of for the city/fire department to cut both
> electric and gas.  We ran into CLECS that had this happen to them when I
> was
> spec'ing out a new CO for a telco I used to work for.
>
> Thank you,
> Zak Wolfinger ­ IT Director
> Cyberlink Technologies, Inc.
> 888-293-3693 Ext 4357
>
>
> > From: Dennis Burgess 
> > Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> > Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:11:09 -0600
> > To: WISPA General List 
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] propane generators?
> >
> > We have a customer that has a natural gas connection at his NOC to the
> > gas co.  Course, it was great for them to put an natural gas generator.
> > WHen they don't need it, they don't store anything, but when they do,
> > let it run!  Think they were on it for about 8 days straight without a
> > hickup.
> >
> > If you go propane, figure what is longest it will take for someone to
> > come out and fill it?  Lugging something around typically is not going
> > to work.  Not to mention expensive and time consuming to keep it going.
> > Plus, might have to shut it off to change tanks etc.  Most gas cos wil
> > rent you a tank and place it for next to nothing, well at least in this
> > area.  If you have a co come fill it, how long will it take to get them
> > out there.  Weekend and emergency fills gets real expensive real quick,
> > so figure you need to run 4 days at least on one tank..
> >
> > * ---
> > Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> > WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> > Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> > WISPA Vendor Member*
> > *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> > <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> > */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> > <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
> >
> > The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
> > Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended
> only
> > for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> > it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material.
> Any
> > review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any
> action
> > in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
> > intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
> > received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material
> from
> > any computer.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Patrick Shoemaker wrote:
> >> Be careful if using this in cold climates at a remote site. Most diesels
> >> will need a block heater in order to start under a certain temperature,
> >> and powering a block heater at a solar site will not be practical. Your
> >> odds of automatically starting a propane generator in cold temps are
> >> much better than a diesel. Plus you run into algae problems with diesel
> >> stored for long periods of time.
> >>
> >> Patrick Shoemaker
> >> Vector Data Systems LLC
> >> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> >> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> >> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
> >>
> >>
> >> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
> >>
> >>> I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas
> >>> units) I was really thinking about diesel rather than propane.  It'll
> >>> probably cost more money, but how do you lug a reasonably sized propane
> tank
> >>> up the hill when you can't drive to the site etc.?
> >>>
> >>> By using heating oil any gelling issues should be minimized.  Fuel
> deicer
> >>> (or whatever it's called) should help even more.
> >>>
> >>> Just my thoughts
> >>> Marlon
> >>> (509) 982-2181
> >>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> >>> 42846865 (icq) 

Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[D. Ryan Spott]

The yamaha has a remote start ability via an add-on.

ryan

Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
> I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas 
> units) I was really thinking about diesel rather than propane.  It'll 
> probably cost more money, but how do you lug a reasonably sized propane tank 
> up the hill when you can't drive to the site etc.?
>
> By using heating oil any gelling issues should be minimized.  Fuel deicer 
> (or whatever it's called) should help even more.
>
> Just my thoughts
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
> o...@odessaoffice.com
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Randy Cosby" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:19 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] propane generators?
>
>
>   
>> Anyone using small propane generators at their wireless towers?  Any
>> suggestions?  I only need 2KW or so, but would like to be able to start
>> it remotely as needed.  The site is primarily solar, this would be to
>> back us up on snow days.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> -- 
>> Randy Cosby
>> Vice President
>> InfoWest, Inc
>>
>> work: 435-773-6071
>> email: rco...@infowest.com
>>
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>> 
>>
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>>
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>>
>> 
>
>
>
> 
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> 
>  
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>
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Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[Zachery Wolfinger]

One thing to consider with natural gas generators for NOCs is that in an
emergency, it's not unheard of for the city/fire department to cut both
electric and gas.  We ran into CLECS that had this happen to them when I was
spec'ing out a new CO for a telco I used to work for.

Thank you,
Zak Wolfinger ­ IT Director
Cyberlink Technologies, Inc.
888-293-3693 Ext 4357


> From: Dennis Burgess 
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 12:11:09 -0600
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] propane generators?
> 
> We have a customer that has a natural gas connection at his NOC to the
> gas co.  Course, it was great for them to put an natural gas generator.
> WHen they don't need it, they don't store anything, but when they do,
> let it run!  Think they were on it for about 8 days straight without a
> hickup. 
> 
> If you go propane, figure what is longest it will take for someone to
> come out and fill it?  Lugging something around typically is not going
> to work.  Not to mention expensive and time consuming to keep it going.
> Plus, might have to shut it off to change tanks etc.  Most gas cos wil
> rent you a tank and place it for next to nothing, well at least in this
> area.  If you have a co come fill it, how long will it take to get them
> out there.  Weekend and emergency fills gets real expensive real quick,
> so figure you need to run 4 days at least on one tank..
> 
> * ---
> Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
> WISPA Board Member - wispa.org <http://www.wispa.org/>
> Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
> WISPA Vendor Member*
> *Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net
> <http://www.linktechs.net/>
> */LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/*
> <http://www.linktechs.net/onlinetraining.asp>
> 
> The information transmitted (including attachments) is covered by the
> Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is intended only
> for the person(s) or entity/entities to which
> it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any
> review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action
> in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the
> intended recipient(s) is prohibited, If you
> received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from
> any computer.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick Shoemaker wrote:
>> Be careful if using this in cold climates at a remote site. Most diesels
>> will need a block heater in order to start under a certain temperature,
>> and powering a block heater at a solar site will not be practical. Your
>> odds of automatically starting a propane generator in cold temps are
>> much better than a diesel. Plus you run into algae problems with diesel
>> stored for long periods of time.
>> 
>> Patrick Shoemaker
>> Vector Data Systems LLC
>> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>> 
>> 
>> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
>>   
>>> I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas
>>> units) I was really thinking about diesel rather than propane.  It'll
>>> probably cost more money, but how do you lug a reasonably sized propane tank
>>> up the hill when you can't drive to the site etc.?
>>> 
>>> By using heating oil any gelling issues should be minimized.  Fuel deicer
>>> (or whatever it's called) should help even more.
>>> 
>>> Just my thoughts
>>> Marlon
>>> (509) 982-2181
>>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
>>> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
>>> o...@odessaoffice.com
>>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
>>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Randy Cosby" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:19 PM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] propane generators?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Anyone using small propane generators at their wireless towers?  Any
>>>> suggestions?  I only need 2KW or so, but would like to be able to start
>>>> it remotely as needed.  The site is primarily solar, this would be to
>>>> back us up on snow days.
>>>> 
>>>> thanks,
>>>> 
>>>>

Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[jp]

I'd spend the generator budget on more batteries and panels.

I'd now rather save generators for place where power use is great, and strings 
of batteries for places where power use is low and access is difficult.

On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 09:59:57AM -0700, Randy Cosby wrote:
> Good points.
> 
> I did find a vendor that does factory-warranted upgrades of yamaha 
> generators to dual or tri-fuel, and they also sell a wired remote-start 
> kit that could be triggered with a relay or dry contact closure. 
> http://www.propane-generators.com
> 
> Keeping the unit small does have some advantages.  We only need this up 
> on the hill in the winter, and can use it other places when we get our 
> summer brownouts and outages.  We could keep a large tank on the hill 
> for when we do need it, and fill it before the snow flies each winter.  
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
> > I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas 
> > units) I was really thinking about diesel rather than propane.  It'll 
> > probably cost more money, but how do you lug a reasonably sized propane 
> > tank 
> > up the hill when you can't drive to the site etc.?
> >
> > By using heating oil any gelling issues should be minimized.  Fuel deicer 
> > (or whatever it's called) should help even more.
> >
> > Just my thoughts
> > Marlon
> > (509) 982-2181
> > (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> > 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
> > o...@odessaoffice.com
> > www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> > www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Randy Cosby" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:19 PM
> > Subject: [WISPA] propane generators?
> >
> >
> >   
> >> Anyone using small propane generators at their wireless towers?  Any
> >> suggestions?  I only need 2KW or so, but would like to be able to start
> >> it remotely as needed.  The site is primarily solar, this would be to
> >> back us up on snow days.
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Randy Cosby
> >> Vice President
> >> InfoWest, Inc
> >>
> >> work: 435-773-6071
> >> email: rco...@infowest.com
> >>
> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >> 
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> >  
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >   
> 
> -- 
> Randy Cosby
> Vice President
> InfoWest, Inc
> 
> work: 435-773-6071
> email: rco...@infowest.com
> 
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
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> 
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-- 
/*
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Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[Dennis Burgess]

We have a customer that has a natural gas connection at his NOC to the 
gas co.  Course, it was great for them to put an natural gas generator.  
WHen they don't need it, they don't store anything, but when they do, 
let it run!  Think they were on it for about 8 days straight without a 
hickup. 

If you go propane, figure what is longest it will take for someone to 
come out and fill it?  Lugging something around typically is not going 
to work.  Not to mention expensive and time consuming to keep it going.  
Plus, might have to shut it off to change tanks etc.  Most gas cos wil 
rent you a tank and place it for next to nothing, well at least in this 
area.  If you have a co come fill it, how long will it take to get them 
out there.  Weekend and emergency fills gets real expensive real quick, 
so figure you need to run 4 days at least on one tank..

* ---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org 
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member*
*Office*: 314-735-0270 *Website*: http://www.linktechs.net 

*/LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training/* 


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Patrick Shoemaker wrote:
> Be careful if using this in cold climates at a remote site. Most diesels 
> will need a block heater in order to start under a certain temperature, 
> and powering a block heater at a solar site will not be practical. Your 
> odds of automatically starting a propane generator in cold temps are 
> much better than a diesel. Plus you run into algae problems with diesel 
> stored for long periods of time.
>
> Patrick Shoemaker
> Vector Data Systems LLC
> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>
>
> Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
>   
>> I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas 
>> units) I was really thinking about diesel rather than propane.  It'll 
>> probably cost more money, but how do you lug a reasonably sized propane tank 
>> up the hill when you can't drive to the site etc.?
>>
>> By using heating oil any gelling issues should be minimized.  Fuel deicer 
>> (or whatever it's called) should help even more.
>>
>> Just my thoughts
>> Marlon
>> (509) 982-2181
>> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
>> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
>> o...@odessaoffice.com
>> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
>> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Randy Cosby" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:19 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] propane generators?
>>
>>
>> 
>>> Anyone using small propane generators at their wireless towers?  Any
>>> suggestions?  I only need 2KW or so, but would like to be able to start
>>> it remotely as needed.  The site is primarily solar, this would be to
>>> back us up on snow days.
>>>
>>> thanks,
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Randy Cosby
>>> Vice President
>>> InfoWest, Inc
>>>
>>> work: 435-773-6071
>>> email: rco...@infowest.com
>>>
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>>   
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://

Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[Patrick Shoemaker]

Be careful if using this in cold climates at a remote site. Most diesels 
will need a block heater in order to start under a certain temperature, 
and powering a block heater at a solar site will not be practical. Your 
odds of automatically starting a propane generator in cold temps are 
much better than a diesel. Plus you run into algae problems with diesel 
stored for long periods of time.

Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
> I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas 
> units) I was really thinking about diesel rather than propane.  It'll 
> probably cost more money, but how do you lug a reasonably sized propane tank 
> up the hill when you can't drive to the site etc.?
> 
> By using heating oil any gelling issues should be minimized.  Fuel deicer 
> (or whatever it's called) should help even more.
> 
> Just my thoughts
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
> o...@odessaoffice.com
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Randy Cosby" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:19 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] propane generators?
> 
> 
>> Anyone using small propane generators at their wireless towers?  Any
>> suggestions?  I only need 2KW or so, but would like to be able to start
>> it remotely as needed.  The site is primarily solar, this would be to
>> back us up on snow days.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> -- 
>> Randy Cosby
>> Vice President
>> InfoWest, Inc
>>
>> work: 435-773-6071
>> email: rco...@infowest.com
>>
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



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Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[Randy Cosby]

Good points.

I did find a vendor that does factory-warranted upgrades of yamaha 
generators to dual or tri-fuel, and they also sell a wired remote-start 
kit that could be triggered with a relay or dry contact closure. 
http://www.propane-generators.com

Keeping the unit small does have some advantages.  We only need this up 
on the hill in the winter, and can use it other places when we get our 
summer brownouts and outages.  We could keep a large tank on the hill 
for when we do need it, and fill it before the snow flies each winter.  

Randy


Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181 wrote:
> I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas 
> units) I was really thinking about diesel rather than propane.  It'll 
> probably cost more money, but how do you lug a reasonably sized propane tank 
> up the hill when you can't drive to the site etc.?
>
> By using heating oil any gelling issues should be minimized.  Fuel deicer 
> (or whatever it's called) should help even more.
>
> Just my thoughts
> Marlon
> (509) 982-2181
> (408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
> 42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
> o...@odessaoffice.com
> www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
> www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
>
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Randy Cosby" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:19 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] propane generators?
>
>
>   
>> Anyone using small propane generators at their wireless towers?  Any
>> suggestions?  I only need 2KW or so, but would like to be able to start
>> it remotely as needed.  The site is primarily solar, this would be to
>> back us up on snow days.
>>
>> thanks,
>>
>> -- 
>> Randy Cosby
>> Vice President
>> InfoWest, Inc
>>
>> work: 435-773-6071
>> email: rco...@infowest.com
>>
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>> 
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>   

-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

work: 435-773-6071
email: rco...@infowest.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby




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Re: [WISPA] propane generators?

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

I thought about that.  Not having one already (other than portable gas 
units) I was really thinking about diesel rather than propane.  It'll 
probably cost more money, but how do you lug a reasonably sized propane tank 
up the hill when you can't drive to the site etc.?

By using heating oil any gelling issues should be minimized.  Fuel deicer 
(or whatever it's called) should help even more.

Just my thoughts
Marlon
(509) 982-2181
(408) 907-6910 (Vonage)Consulting services
42846865 (icq)WISP Operator since 1999!
o...@odessaoffice.com
www.odessaoffice.com/wireless
www.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam



- Original Message - 
From: "Randy Cosby" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:19 PM
Subject: [WISPA] propane generators?


> Anyone using small propane generators at their wireless towers?  Any
> suggestions?  I only need 2KW or so, but would like to be able to start
> it remotely as needed.  The site is primarily solar, this would be to
> back us up on snow days.
>
> thanks,
>
> -- 
> Randy Cosby
> Vice President
> InfoWest, Inc
>
> work: 435-773-6071
> email: rco...@infowest.com
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 




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