Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
> They're so right about not bridging Thats a short sighted opinion. In theory, for the benefit of their Box, maybe yes. And I'm not challenging the many benefits to routing. But everyone doesn't use the box for the same purpose. Not true for many appilications. For example, what about standardized or central management and provisioning? For larger ISPs, the STAROS box is not the place that manages the customers, they have a second high performance router that the StarOS box attaches to. There are many preferred applications for layer2 redunancy (spanning tree). OFtne a network design does not start with STAROS, but STAROS gets injected into a pre-existing design. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > Marlon, I have been using Star-OS since the beginning here. Means four > years of using it. > > It is the fastest, easiest, and best performing of anything I've tried. > > They're so right about not bridging, but if you need any assistance, give > me > a shout. It's not even that far if you want a hands on demo on how to set > things up, and I don't mind making the trip. > > Mark > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:31 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > >>I have more and more trouble justifying the cost of any product with a >> "steep learning curve". There's just no reason for gear to not have a >> simple and advanced mode these days. >> >> And there's no reason for documentation that doesn't cover simple >> questions. >> >> There's no reason to NOT have a quick start guide. >> >> There's no reason to have a box that doesn't do something right out of >> the >> box (this one shipped with all wireless ports disabled!). >> >> There's no reason to not have the option of picking up the phone and >> getting >> some help to get started. Now I'm DAYS into a project that should have >> taken just a few minutes. There was no documentation in the box. Not >> even >> the web site address, had to Google for it. There is no tech support >> number >> on the web site. >> >> I guess if a company wants to stay small, have a small user base etc. >> this >> is all good. You only get really tech savvy customers. Something that >> I'm >> not when it comes to routing and command line. I've got a very lean fast >> growing company. I have over a dozen brands of hardware deployed. They >> all >> do things differently. I have long ago given up on trying to memorize >> all >> of this crap. If it's not completely self explanatory (like 802.1d >> bridging >> actually turning on bridging) I don't have time to play with the >> gear. >> It doesn't really matter how good it is. >> >> For the record I've got the same bitch with MT. I can do a little bit >> more >> with them because they at least have a decent gui. But most of what I do >> with them is due to Butch's help. He's great but having to hire him all >> of >> the time raises the cost of the gear by a lot. All because I don't have >> the >> option of a Linksys simple setup option Dumb. Very dumb. >> >> Alvarion has work to do too. They use strange names for functions. >> Don't >> give "typical" levels as examples right in the software. I mean really, >> how >> am I supposed to know if 10, 1000 or -50 is a good number to try for >> interference mitigation? And which settings would I tweak for which >> things? >> Who the heck has time to read yet another 150+++ page manual? Put the >> basics right in the software! >> >> sigh >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:56 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message >> >> >>> Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been >>> around since Adam met Eve. >>> >>> The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
>that we MUST put PRINTED information in the > hands of our installers on the equipment that we use ( When you are done with that printed guide, why not post it to the Forum :-) Tom DeReggi RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: "Mark Nash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message >I agree with you, Marlon on the documentation/ease-of-use. I gave up using > Tranzeos for StarOS because of its flexibility and powerful boards and the > atheros driver available creating an environment with extremely low > latency. > > Tranzeos were/are super-easy. With StarOS, I've gotten over alot of the > learning curve, but there is still more to learn. It's for geeks...but > once > you're there, you're in pretty good shape. > > My biggest issue as of late is that I have a problem remembering which > power > supply goes to which board, and remembering which of two ethernet ports is > the PoE port on each different type of board. > > Documentation for StarOS and the equipment it supports is lacking. Just > last week I told our engineer that we MUST put PRINTED information in the > hands of our installers on the equipment that we use (what power supply to > use, which is the PoE ports, which boards can handle the high-powered > cards > and how many, etc). > > The equipment and software is very very good, but you have to be at least > a > semi-geek to understand it. > > Mark Nash > UnwiredWest > 78 Centennial Loop > Suite E > Eugene, OR 97401 > 541-998- > 541-998-5599 fax > http://www.unwiredwest.com > ----- Original Message - > From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:31 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > >> I have more and more trouble justifying the cost of any product with a >> "steep learning curve". There's just no reason for gear to not have a >> simple and advanced mode these days. >> >> And there's no reason for documentation that doesn't cover simple > questions. >> >> There's no reason to NOT have a quick start guide. >> >> There's no reason to have a box that doesn't do something right out of >> the >> box (this one shipped with all wireless ports disabled!). >> >> There's no reason to not have the option of picking up the phone and > getting >> some help to get started. Now I'm DAYS into a project that should have >> taken just a few minutes. There was no documentation in the box. Not > even >> the web site address, had to Google for it. There is no tech support > number >> on the web site. >> >> I guess if a company wants to stay small, have a small user base etc. >> this >> is all good. You only get really tech savvy customers. Something that > I'm >> not when it comes to routing and command line. I've got a very lean fast >> growing company. I have over a dozen brands of hardware deployed. They > all >> do things differently. I have long ago given up on trying to memorize >> all >> of this crap. If it's not completely self explanatory (like 802.1d > bridging >> actually turning on bridging) I don't have time to play with the >> gear. >> It doesn't really matter how good it is. >> >> For the record I've got the same bitch with MT. I can do a little bit > more >> with them because they at least have a decent gui. But most of what I do >> with them is due to Butch's help. He's great but having to hire him all > of >> the time raises the cost of the gear by a lot. All because I don't have > the >> option of a Linksys simple setup option Dumb. Very dumb. >> >> Alvarion has work to do too. They use strange names for functions. >> Don't >> give "typical" levels as examples right in the software. I mean really, > how >> am I supposed to know if 10, 1000 or -50 is a good number to try for >> interference mitigation? And which settings would I tweak for which > things? >> Who the heck has time to read yet another 150+++ page manual? Put the >> basics right in the software! >> >> sigh >> marlon >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Wednesday, J
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
I really don't get how V3 is difficult to figure out. Before I was doing this, I was dragging phone/data cables for the AF. Before that I ran a Husqvarna for a logging company. Before that, I worked on a small ranch. I'm a pretty common sence kind of guy and don't like things that don't work right or are setup wrong. I'm about the farthest thing from the typical "Admin" guy there is, but somehow through my country way of thinking I figured out V3. Then I figured out how to subnet and route. I got tossed into this wireless stuff with absolutely no idea of what I was doing, but I figured that out too. The interface is actually really nice. I have a customer right now that has a bad radio card. Their latency is about 300ms and about 40% packet loss. I can still log into their radio and fly through the settings just like nothing is wrong. Try that with a web based gui. The reason we got away from Tranzeo is because, they don't work well. In the face of interference, of any little bit, they folded like a lawn chair. Granted this was back in the TR-CPE days, not sure about the new stuff, and don't really care. But we were swapping them out left and right with any WAR board we could find and lovin' every minute of it. I remember my techs telling me how much better this new equipment was compared to the Tranzeos, and these guys were green horns not veterans. They didn't have a set way of thinking which made the transition really easy for them. You don't have to be a geek to figure out V3, just a little free time and internet access. On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 11:39 AM, Marlon K. Schafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > - Original Message - > From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:28 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > >> You'll forget that you weren't familiar with it after you get used to >> them. It's just like getting a cisco router for your first time and then >> trying to figure out where to start. > > Grin. That's part of why I do NOT use Cisco anymore! > >> Sort of like walking in a dark room >> blindfolded for the first time, where am I? > > Um, if it were *me*, I'd TURN ON THE LIGHT > > marlon > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- Chad Halsted The Computer Works Conway, AR www.tcworks.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
- Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > You'll forget that you weren't familiar with it after you get used to > them. It's just like getting a cisco router for your first time and then > trying to figure out where to start. Grin. That's part of why I do NOT use Cisco anymore! > Sort of like walking in a dark room > blindfolded for the first time, where am I? Um, if it were *me*, I'd TURN ON THE LIGHT marlon WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
Yes, but only the clients I think. The APs/backhauls/distros should need to be configured. I'd say that 99.99% of the WAR1's are configured as a NAT router. Then there are those who use them as bridges... ;) Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > It would be nice if they came more configured, so all we had to do is > give a radio an ip addy and set the essid. > > Mark Nash wrote: > > Yes, but Marlon's point should not be passed by... It shouldn't be so > > difficult. It's been around long enough. > > > > This hardware and software has made life more difficult for our installers > > to deal with. > > > > I do believe in fairness where appropriate, though... Once installed, it's > > highly-capable and manageable. I actually don't like the ssh interface vs. > > the Mikrotik Winbox. However...I do appreciate the ability to run the ssh > > interface from any computer anywhere and once I get through our firewall, I > > have access to our entire infrastructure and clients. And since it's not > > web-based management, it's very responsive and fast. > > > > Mark Nash > > UnwiredWest > > 78 Centennial Loop > > Suite E > > Eugene, OR 97401 > > 541-998- > > 541-998-5599 fax > > http://www.unwiredwest.com > > ----- Original Message - > > From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "'WISPA General List'" > > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:52 AM > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > > > > >> Just a thought. > >> > >> There is some concerted effort from the folks who work with StarOS to > >> create/compile documentation. > >> > >> Here is a very decent effort from Travis "TOG" > >> http://staros.tog.net/wiki/Main_Page > >> > >> Maybe if more of the folks working with Staros, contribute to the wiki, > >> there will be complete documention set ver quickly. > >> > >> > >> > >> Faisal Imtiaz > >> SnappyDSL.net > >> > >> -Original Message- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > >> Behalf Of Mark Nash > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:43 AM > >> To: WISPA General List > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > >> > >> I agree with you, Marlon on the documentation/ease-of-use. I gave up > > using > >> Tranzeos for StarOS because of its flexibility and powerful boards and the > >> atheros driver available creating an environment with extremely low > > latency. > >> Tranzeos were/are super-easy. With StarOS, I've gotten over alot of the > >> learning curve, but there is still more to learn. It's for geeks...but > > once > >> you're there, you're in pretty good shape. > >> > >> My biggest issue as of late is that I have a problem remembering which > > power > >> supply goes to which board, and remembering which of two ethernet ports is > >> the PoE port on each different type of board. > >> > >> Documentation for StarOS and the equipment it supports is lacking. Just > >> last week I told our engineer that we MUST put PRINTED information in the > >> hands of our installers on the equipment that we use (what power supply to > >> use, which is the PoE ports, which boards can handle the high-powered > > cards > >> and how many, etc). > >> > >> The equipment and software is very very good, but you have to be at least > > a > >> semi-geek to understand it. > >> > >> Mark Nash > >> UnwiredWest > >> 78 Centennial Loop > >> Suite E > >> Eugene, OR 97401 > >> 541-998- > >> 541-998-5599 fax > >> http://www.unwiredwest.com > >> - Original Message - > >> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> To: "WISPA General List" > >> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:31 AM > >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > >> > >> > >>> I have more an
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
Marlon, I have been using Star-OS since the beginning here. Means four years of using it. It is the fastest, easiest, and best performing of anything I've tried. They're so right about not bridging, but if you need any assistance, give me a shout. It's not even that far if you want a hands on demo on how to set things up, and I don't mind making the trip. Mark - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message >I have more and more trouble justifying the cost of any product with a > "steep learning curve". There's just no reason for gear to not have a > simple and advanced mode these days. > > And there's no reason for documentation that doesn't cover simple > questions. > > There's no reason to NOT have a quick start guide. > > There's no reason to have a box that doesn't do something right out of the > box (this one shipped with all wireless ports disabled!). > > There's no reason to not have the option of picking up the phone and > getting > some help to get started. Now I'm DAYS into a project that should have > taken just a few minutes. There was no documentation in the box. Not > even > the web site address, had to Google for it. There is no tech support > number > on the web site. > > I guess if a company wants to stay small, have a small user base etc. this > is all good. You only get really tech savvy customers. Something that > I'm > not when it comes to routing and command line. I've got a very lean fast > growing company. I have over a dozen brands of hardware deployed. They > all > do things differently. I have long ago given up on trying to memorize all > of this crap. If it's not completely self explanatory (like 802.1d > bridging > actually turning on bridging) I don't have time to play with the gear. > It doesn't really matter how good it is. > > For the record I've got the same bitch with MT. I can do a little bit > more > with them because they at least have a decent gui. But most of what I do > with them is due to Butch's help. He's great but having to hire him all > of > the time raises the cost of the gear by a lot. All because I don't have > the > option of a Linksys simple setup option Dumb. Very dumb. > > Alvarion has work to do too. They use strange names for functions. Don't > give "typical" levels as examples right in the software. I mean really, > how > am I supposed to know if 10, 1000 or -50 is a good number to try for > interference mitigation? And which settings would I tweak for which > things? > Who the heck has time to read yet another 150+++ page manual? Put the > basics right in the software! > > sigh > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:56 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > >> Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been >> around since Adam met Eve. >> >> The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty >> good documentation. >> If you search the forums, you will pretty much find anything you need to >> know. Trick is first searching the forums. >> Then there is Tog's WiKi that is pretty good. >> Tog has put a lot of time into the WiKi and helping others with their >> star stuff. >> >> One thing I might add, one reason it's hard to document star, it's >> always changing, and how do you document l7 filtering or isc dhcp easily? >> >> Fortunately Tog and a few other smart guys hang out there and try to >> offer their help when they can. >> >> Good luck Ralph. >> >> George >> >> ralph wrote: >>> I just re-read it and need to clarify. >>> I put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces because it seemed >>> that an address was required per the blanks to fill in. It was never >>> documented to only put an address on one interface. >>> With other products, you don't really program the other interfaces, so >>> you >>> aren't inclined to make that mistake. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >>> http://signup.w
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
It would be nice if they came more configured, so all we had to do is give a radio an ip addy and set the essid. Mark Nash wrote: > Yes, but Marlon's point should not be passed by... It shouldn't be so > difficult. It's been around long enough. > > This hardware and software has made life more difficult for our installers > to deal with. > > I do believe in fairness where appropriate, though... Once installed, it's > highly-capable and manageable. I actually don't like the ssh interface vs. > the Mikrotik Winbox. However...I do appreciate the ability to run the ssh > interface from any computer anywhere and once I get through our firewall, I > have access to our entire infrastructure and clients. And since it's not > web-based management, it's very responsive and fast. > > Mark Nash > UnwiredWest > 78 Centennial Loop > Suite E > Eugene, OR 97401 > 541-998- > 541-998-5599 fax > http://www.unwiredwest.com > - Original Message - > From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'WISPA General List'" > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:52 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > >> Just a thought. >> >> There is some concerted effort from the folks who work with StarOS to >> create/compile documentation. >> >> Here is a very decent effort from Travis "TOG" >> http://staros.tog.net/wiki/Main_Page >> >> Maybe if more of the folks working with Staros, contribute to the wiki, >> there will be complete documention set ver quickly. >> >> >> >> Faisal Imtiaz >> SnappyDSL.net >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >> Behalf Of Mark Nash >> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:43 AM >> To: WISPA General List >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message >> >> I agree with you, Marlon on the documentation/ease-of-use. I gave up > using >> Tranzeos for StarOS because of its flexibility and powerful boards and the >> atheros driver available creating an environment with extremely low > latency. >> Tranzeos were/are super-easy. With StarOS, I've gotten over alot of the >> learning curve, but there is still more to learn. It's for geeks...but > once >> you're there, you're in pretty good shape. >> >> My biggest issue as of late is that I have a problem remembering which > power >> supply goes to which board, and remembering which of two ethernet ports is >> the PoE port on each different type of board. >> >> Documentation for StarOS and the equipment it supports is lacking. Just >> last week I told our engineer that we MUST put PRINTED information in the >> hands of our installers on the equipment that we use (what power supply to >> use, which is the PoE ports, which boards can handle the high-powered > cards >> and how many, etc). >> >> The equipment and software is very very good, but you have to be at least > a >> semi-geek to understand it. >> >> Mark Nash >> UnwiredWest >> 78 Centennial Loop >> Suite E >> Eugene, OR 97401 >> 541-998- >> 541-998-5599 fax >> http://www.unwiredwest.com >> - Original Message - >> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" >> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:31 AM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message >> >> >>> I have more and more trouble justifying the cost of any product with a >>> "steep learning curve". There's just no reason for gear to not have a >>> simple and advanced mode these days. >>> >>> And there's no reason for documentation that doesn't cover simple >> questions. >>> There's no reason to NOT have a quick start guide. >>> >>> There's no reason to have a box that doesn't do something right out of > the >>> box (this one shipped with all wireless ports disabled!). >>> >>> There's no reason to not have the option of picking up the phone and >> getting >>> some help to get started. Now I'm DAYS into a project that should have >>> taken just a few minutes. There was no documentation in the box. Not >> even >>> the web site address, had to Google for it. There is no tech support >> number >>> on the web site. >>> >>> I guess if a company wants to stay small, have a small user base
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
We started using OLSR a few months ago. Not for the redundant mesh back hauls, but rather the dynamic routing aspect of it. Friday I had to move a sub from one end of our network to an entirely different ap and segmant. All I had to do to make sure his ethernet port handed out the same public IP to him, was change the ip address and essid on his wan port and he was done. No having to add routes through to him. No removing old routes. Just worked when I turned on his radio. Eventually I will start playing connect the ap's for wireless redundancy. ralph wrote: > Yes- > I did look all through the forums first, and Tog's Wiki is really helpful > too. > We need the experts to continue populating some of the sparse areas and I > will try to help as I become more familiar- 'specially if I get these > working as mesh radios. I have considerable Tropos and Cisco outdoor mesh > experience and am really hoping to find a "poor man's mesh". I want to try > some of the Ligo mesh too, but can't afford to buy it right now. > > Ralph > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of George Rogato > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:56 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been > around since Adam met Eve. > > The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty > good documentation. > If you search the forums, you will pretty much find anything you need to > know. Trick is first searching the forums. > Then there is Tog's WiKi that is pretty good. > Tog has put a lot of time into the WiKi and helping others with their > star stuff. > > One thing I might add, one reason it's hard to document star, it's > always changing, and how do you document l7 filtering or isc dhcp easily? > > Fortunately Tog and a few other smart guys hang out there and try to > offer their help when they can. > > Good luck Ralph. > > George > > ralph wrote: >> I just re-read it and need to clarify. >> I put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces because it seemed >> that an address was required per the blanks to fill in. It was never >> documented to only put an address on one interface. >> With other products, you don't really program the other interfaces, so you >> aren't inclined to make that mistake. >> >> >> >> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> > > >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
You'll forget that you weren't familiar with it after you get used to them. It's just like getting a cisco router for your first time and then trying to figure out where to start. Sort of like walking in a dark room blindfolded for the first time, where am I? One thing about having to learn the system is when you are forced to look through all the various settings you start getting real familiar real fast of all the variations of settings. Usually thats enough to challenge a thinker type and they soon expose themselves as very versatile products and easy to mess with. And it touches on lots of things nothing to do with star. OLSR DHCP L7 are not anything special that star has done, they are the same as you would find in any linux router. They are just inluded as an additional features. Star is really about the wireless driver. Rest of the stuff is common place. As for the cards coming disabled, you now know, you can log into the unit to turn off a port. Nice feature to have. And to get there to the place where you disable or enable the device, you have to go there anyways to configure that port. What seasoned star guys probably do, at least I do this, is when I first turn a board on, I upload the newest firware that I intend on using. Then I upload a default configuration for that particular board in that particular situation. If it's a 2 port, a 4 port a 1 port etc, I have default configs. Actually those default configs are just a config off another board thats already configured. We download and back up the configs off every board on our network. Then we go through and make those changes that are unique to that deploymment, essid 1p addy, etc. It's then fast and easy. Utilistar, star util, and now Star gaze will help you. You can download the configs and save them and if a board dies on you, you just upload the current config to the new board and it works, no config changes needed. Just save and activate changes and reboot. Presto. The best thing about Stars forums style support, there is a lot of people that are very smart that are willing to help. And a lot of those guys also use MT, Alvarion, Moto, Trango and anything else, so it's not as much of a closed minded group to get help or opinions from. Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > I have more and more trouble justifying the cost of any product with a > "steep learning curve". There's just no reason for gear to not have a > simple and advanced mode these days. > > And there's no reason for documentation that doesn't cover simple questions. > > There's no reason to NOT have a quick start guide. > > There's no reason to have a box that doesn't do something right out of the > box (this one shipped with all wireless ports disabled!). > > There's no reason to not have the option of picking up the phone and getting > some help to get started. Now I'm DAYS into a project that should have > taken just a few minutes. There was no documentation in the box. Not even > the web site address, had to Google for it. There is no tech support number > on the web site. > > I guess if a company wants to stay small, have a small user base etc. this > is all good. You only get really tech savvy customers. Something that I'm > not when it comes to routing and command line. I've got a very lean fast > growing company. I have over a dozen brands of hardware deployed. They all > do things differently. I have long ago given up on trying to memorize all > of this crap. If it's not completely self explanatory (like 802.1d bridging > actually turning on bridging) I don't have time to play with the gear. > It doesn't really matter how good it is. > > For the record I've got the same bitch with MT. I can do a little bit more > with them because they at least have a decent gui. But most of what I do > with them is due to Butch's help. He's great but having to hire him all of > the time raises the cost of the gear by a lot. All because I don't have the > option of a Linksys simple setup option Dumb. Very dumb. > > Alvarion has work to do too. They use strange names for functions. Don't > give "typical" levels as examples right in the software. I mean really, how > am I supposed to know if 10, 1000 or -50 is a good number to try for > interference mitigation? And which settings would I tweak for which things? > Who the heck has time to read yet another 150+++ page manual? Put the > basics right in the software! > > sigh > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:56 AM > Subject: Re: [W
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
Yes, but Marlon's point should not be passed by... It shouldn't be so difficult. It's been around long enough. This hardware and software has made life more difficult for our installers to deal with. I do believe in fairness where appropriate, though... Once installed, it's highly-capable and manageable. I actually don't like the ssh interface vs. the Mikrotik Winbox. However...I do appreciate the ability to run the ssh interface from any computer anywhere and once I get through our firewall, I have access to our entire infrastructure and clients. And since it's not web-based management, it's very responsive and fast. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: "Faisal Imtiaz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > Just a thought. > > There is some concerted effort from the folks who work with StarOS to > create/compile documentation. > > Here is a very decent effort from Travis "TOG" > http://staros.tog.net/wiki/Main_Page > > Maybe if more of the folks working with Staros, contribute to the wiki, > there will be complete documention set ver quickly. > > > > Faisal Imtiaz > SnappyDSL.net > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Mark Nash > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:43 AM > To: WISPA General List > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > I agree with you, Marlon on the documentation/ease-of-use. I gave up using > Tranzeos for StarOS because of its flexibility and powerful boards and the > atheros driver available creating an environment with extremely low latency. > > Tranzeos were/are super-easy. With StarOS, I've gotten over alot of the > learning curve, but there is still more to learn. It's for geeks...but once > you're there, you're in pretty good shape. > > My biggest issue as of late is that I have a problem remembering which power > supply goes to which board, and remembering which of two ethernet ports is > the PoE port on each different type of board. > > Documentation for StarOS and the equipment it supports is lacking. Just > last week I told our engineer that we MUST put PRINTED information in the > hands of our installers on the equipment that we use (what power supply to > use, which is the PoE ports, which boards can handle the high-powered cards > and how many, etc). > > The equipment and software is very very good, but you have to be at least a > semi-geek to understand it. > > Mark Nash > UnwiredWest > 78 Centennial Loop > Suite E > Eugene, OR 97401 > 541-998-5555 > 541-998-5599 fax > http://www.unwiredwest.com > - Original Message - > From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:31 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > > > I have more and more trouble justifying the cost of any product with a > > "steep learning curve". There's just no reason for gear to not have a > > simple and advanced mode these days. > > > > And there's no reason for documentation that doesn't cover simple > questions. > > > > There's no reason to NOT have a quick start guide. > > > > There's no reason to have a box that doesn't do something right out of the > > box (this one shipped with all wireless ports disabled!). > > > > There's no reason to not have the option of picking up the phone and > getting > > some help to get started. Now I'm DAYS into a project that should have > > taken just a few minutes. There was no documentation in the box. Not > even > > the web site address, had to Google for it. There is no tech support > number > > on the web site. > > > > I guess if a company wants to stay small, have a small user base etc. this > > is all good. You only get really tech savvy customers. Something that > I'm > > not when it comes to routing and command line. I've got a very lean fast > > growing company. I have over a dozen brands of hardware deployed. They > all > > do things differently. I have long ago given up on trying to memorize all > > of this crap. If it's not completely self explanatory (like 802.1d > bridging > > actually turning on bridging) I don't have time to play with the gear. > > It doesn't r
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
Just a thought. There is some concerted effort from the folks who work with StarOS to create/compile documentation. Here is a very decent effort from Travis "TOG" http://staros.tog.net/wiki/Main_Page Maybe if more of the folks working with Staros, contribute to the wiki, there will be complete documention set ver quickly. Faisal Imtiaz SnappyDSL.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Nash Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:43 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message I agree with you, Marlon on the documentation/ease-of-use. I gave up using Tranzeos for StarOS because of its flexibility and powerful boards and the atheros driver available creating an environment with extremely low latency. Tranzeos were/are super-easy. With StarOS, I've gotten over alot of the learning curve, but there is still more to learn. It's for geeks...but once you're there, you're in pretty good shape. My biggest issue as of late is that I have a problem remembering which power supply goes to which board, and remembering which of two ethernet ports is the PoE port on each different type of board. Documentation for StarOS and the equipment it supports is lacking. Just last week I told our engineer that we MUST put PRINTED information in the hands of our installers on the equipment that we use (what power supply to use, which is the PoE ports, which boards can handle the high-powered cards and how many, etc). The equipment and software is very very good, but you have to be at least a semi-geek to understand it. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > I have more and more trouble justifying the cost of any product with a > "steep learning curve". There's just no reason for gear to not have a > simple and advanced mode these days. > > And there's no reason for documentation that doesn't cover simple questions. > > There's no reason to NOT have a quick start guide. > > There's no reason to have a box that doesn't do something right out of the > box (this one shipped with all wireless ports disabled!). > > There's no reason to not have the option of picking up the phone and getting > some help to get started. Now I'm DAYS into a project that should have > taken just a few minutes. There was no documentation in the box. Not even > the web site address, had to Google for it. There is no tech support number > on the web site. > > I guess if a company wants to stay small, have a small user base etc. this > is all good. You only get really tech savvy customers. Something that I'm > not when it comes to routing and command line. I've got a very lean fast > growing company. I have over a dozen brands of hardware deployed. They all > do things differently. I have long ago given up on trying to memorize all > of this crap. If it's not completely self explanatory (like 802.1d bridging > actually turning on bridging) I don't have time to play with the gear. > It doesn't really matter how good it is. > > For the record I've got the same bitch with MT. I can do a little bit more > with them because they at least have a decent gui. But most of what I do > with them is due to Butch's help. He's great but having to hire him all of > the time raises the cost of the gear by a lot. All because I don't have the > option of a Linksys simple setup option Dumb. Very dumb. > > Alvarion has work to do too. They use strange names for functions. Don't > give "typical" levels as examples right in the software. I mean really, how > am I supposed to know if 10, 1000 or -50 is a good number to try for > interference mitigation? And which settings would I tweak for which things? > Who the heck has time to read yet another 150+++ page manual? Put the > basics right in the software! > > sigh > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:56 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > > > Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been > > around since Adam met Eve. > > > > The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty > > good documentation. > > If you search the forums, you will p
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
I agree with you, Marlon on the documentation/ease-of-use. I gave up using Tranzeos for StarOS because of its flexibility and powerful boards and the atheros driver available creating an environment with extremely low latency. Tranzeos were/are super-easy. With StarOS, I've gotten over alot of the learning curve, but there is still more to learn. It's for geeks...but once you're there, you're in pretty good shape. My biggest issue as of late is that I have a problem remembering which power supply goes to which board, and remembering which of two ethernet ports is the PoE port on each different type of board. Documentation for StarOS and the equipment it supports is lacking. Just last week I told our engineer that we MUST put PRINTED information in the hands of our installers on the equipment that we use (what power supply to use, which is the PoE ports, which boards can handle the high-powered cards and how many, etc). The equipment and software is very very good, but you have to be at least a semi-geek to understand it. Mark Nash UnwiredWest 78 Centennial Loop Suite E Eugene, OR 97401 541-998- 541-998-5599 fax http://www.unwiredwest.com - Original Message - From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > I have more and more trouble justifying the cost of any product with a > "steep learning curve". There's just no reason for gear to not have a > simple and advanced mode these days. > > And there's no reason for documentation that doesn't cover simple questions. > > There's no reason to NOT have a quick start guide. > > There's no reason to have a box that doesn't do something right out of the > box (this one shipped with all wireless ports disabled!). > > There's no reason to not have the option of picking up the phone and getting > some help to get started. Now I'm DAYS into a project that should have > taken just a few minutes. There was no documentation in the box. Not even > the web site address, had to Google for it. There is no tech support number > on the web site. > > I guess if a company wants to stay small, have a small user base etc. this > is all good. You only get really tech savvy customers. Something that I'm > not when it comes to routing and command line. I've got a very lean fast > growing company. I have over a dozen brands of hardware deployed. They all > do things differently. I have long ago given up on trying to memorize all > of this crap. If it's not completely self explanatory (like 802.1d bridging > actually turning on bridging) I don't have time to play with the gear. > It doesn't really matter how good it is. > > For the record I've got the same bitch with MT. I can do a little bit more > with them because they at least have a decent gui. But most of what I do > with them is due to Butch's help. He's great but having to hire him all of > the time raises the cost of the gear by a lot. All because I don't have the > option of a Linksys simple setup option Dumb. Very dumb. > > Alvarion has work to do too. They use strange names for functions. Don't > give "typical" levels as examples right in the software. I mean really, how > am I supposed to know if 10, 1000 or -50 is a good number to try for > interference mitigation? And which settings would I tweak for which things? > Who the heck has time to read yet another 150+++ page manual? Put the > basics right in the software! > > sigh > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:56 AM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > > > > Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been > > around since Adam met Eve. > > > > The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty > > good documentation. > > If you search the forums, you will pretty much find anything you need to > > know. Trick is first searching the forums. > > Then there is Tog's WiKi that is pretty good. > > Tog has put a lot of time into the WiKi and helping others with their > > star stuff. > > > > One thing I might add, one reason it's hard to document star, it's > > always changing, and how do you document l7 filtering or isc dhcp easily? > > > > Fortunately Tog and a few other smart guys hang out there and try to > > offer their help when they can. &
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
I have more and more trouble justifying the cost of any product with a "steep learning curve". There's just no reason for gear to not have a simple and advanced mode these days. And there's no reason for documentation that doesn't cover simple questions. There's no reason to NOT have a quick start guide. There's no reason to have a box that doesn't do something right out of the box (this one shipped with all wireless ports disabled!). There's no reason to not have the option of picking up the phone and getting some help to get started. Now I'm DAYS into a project that should have taken just a few minutes. There was no documentation in the box. Not even the web site address, had to Google for it. There is no tech support number on the web site. I guess if a company wants to stay small, have a small user base etc. this is all good. You only get really tech savvy customers. Something that I'm not when it comes to routing and command line. I've got a very lean fast growing company. I have over a dozen brands of hardware deployed. They all do things differently. I have long ago given up on trying to memorize all of this crap. If it's not completely self explanatory (like 802.1d bridging actually turning on bridging) I don't have time to play with the gear. It doesn't really matter how good it is. For the record I've got the same bitch with MT. I can do a little bit more with them because they at least have a decent gui. But most of what I do with them is due to Butch's help. He's great but having to hire him all of the time raises the cost of the gear by a lot. All because I don't have the option of a Linksys simple setup option Dumb. Very dumb. Alvarion has work to do too. They use strange names for functions. Don't give "typical" levels as examples right in the software. I mean really, how am I supposed to know if 10, 1000 or -50 is a good number to try for interference mitigation? And which settings would I tweak for which things? Who the heck has time to read yet another 150+++ page manual? Put the basics right in the software! sigh marlon - Original Message - From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message > Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been > around since Adam met Eve. > > The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty > good documentation. > If you search the forums, you will pretty much find anything you need to > know. Trick is first searching the forums. > Then there is Tog's WiKi that is pretty good. > Tog has put a lot of time into the WiKi and helping others with their > star stuff. > > One thing I might add, one reason it's hard to document star, it's > always changing, and how do you document l7 filtering or isc dhcp easily? > > Fortunately Tog and a few other smart guys hang out there and try to > offer their help when they can. > > Good luck Ralph. > > George > > ralph wrote: >> I just re-read it and need to clarify. >> I put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces because it seemed >> that an address was required per the blanks to fill in. It was never >> documented to only put an address on one interface. >> With other products, you don't really program the other interfaces, so >> you >> aren't inclined to make that mistake. >> >> >> >> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today! >> http://signup.wispa.org/ >> >> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org >> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
Yes- I did look all through the forums first, and Tog's Wiki is really helpful too. We need the experts to continue populating some of the sparse areas and I will try to help as I become more familiar- 'specially if I get these working as mesh radios. I have considerable Tropos and Cisco outdoor mesh experience and am really hoping to find a "poor man's mesh". I want to try some of the Ligo mesh too, but can't afford to buy it right now. Ralph -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:56 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been around since Adam met Eve. The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty good documentation. If you search the forums, you will pretty much find anything you need to know. Trick is first searching the forums. Then there is Tog's WiKi that is pretty good. Tog has put a lot of time into the WiKi and helping others with their star stuff. One thing I might add, one reason it's hard to document star, it's always changing, and how do you document l7 filtering or isc dhcp easily? Fortunately Tog and a few other smart guys hang out there and try to offer their help when they can. Good luck Ralph. George ralph wrote: > I just re-read it and need to clarify. > I put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces because it seemed > that an address was required per the blanks to fill in. It was never > documented to only put an address on one interface. > With other products, you don't really program the other interfaces, so you > aren't inclined to make that mistake. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
Not really trying to defend star. The documentation issue has been around since Adam met Eve. The learning curve appears to be steep, but in fact, there is pretty good documentation. If you search the forums, you will pretty much find anything you need to know. Trick is first searching the forums. Then there is Tog's WiKi that is pretty good. Tog has put a lot of time into the WiKi and helping others with their star stuff. One thing I might add, one reason it's hard to document star, it's always changing, and how do you document l7 filtering or isc dhcp easily? Fortunately Tog and a few other smart guys hang out there and try to offer their help when they can. Good luck Ralph. George ralph wrote: > I just re-read it and need to clarify. > I put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces because it seemed > that an address was required per the blanks to fill in. It was never > documented to only put an address on one interface. > With other products, you don't really program the other interfaces, so you > aren't inclined to make that mistake. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
I don't think that StarOS will let you put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces. If you try this AND not notice, it will add the address but disable it (this is shown by the easy to miss * by it). This will result in the same thing though and that is not able to get into the unit. It is best when configuring these units to "apply changes" but do not save until you are sure of the change. This way to restore all you need to do is power cycle it. - Original Message - From: "ralph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'WISPA General List'" Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:28 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message >I just re-read it and need to clarify. > I put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces because it seemed > that an address was required per the blanks to fill in. It was never > documented to only put an address on one interface. > With other products, you don't really program the other interfaces, so you > aren't inclined to make that mistake. > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] star os config help- clarifying my message
I just re-read it and need to clarify. I put addresses from the same subnet on all interfaces because it seemed that an address was required per the blanks to fill in. It was never documented to only put an address on one interface. With other products, you don't really program the other interfaces, so you aren't inclined to make that mistake. WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
