On 10 Aug 2008, at 23:49, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
David Dorward wrote:
(Obviously you have to validate against a DTD that includes ARIA
features)
Right, and the only thing I could find relating to this was:
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC Accessible Adaptive Applications//EN
This is a public
In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes
going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am
trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to
use them when they need to be used.
I am working on a tattoo website and
Here is the current mark-up
h3Body Art/h3
table
captionBody Art Price List/caption
thead
tr
thProduct/th
thPrice/th
/tr
Hi James,
My understanding is that if the content is tabular data / data list in
nature then tables should be used. If your page had a dynamic element to it
- say being able to sort your product by price then the best way to mark it
up is by tables (IMO)... with JS.
Would be interesting to get
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 6:01 PM, James Jeffery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes
going as far as using lists for data that should be placed in tables. I am
trying to sway away from the 'never use tables' crowd and have started to
A list is the most appropriate for a list.
The fact that price list states list DOES mean a list should be used -
when you use the term list that's what the user then expects it to be.
If you don't want to use a list (for whatever pedantic reason) then don't
call it one. If you want to use a
Disagree.
Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in a
table. When you look at it from the point of view where one column is the
products and the other is the price, and another is VAT per product its more
semantic to do it that way.
Again, just because something
On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote:
Disagree.
...
Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a
list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the name,
the subject, the expected grade, the outcome (30/30) and a percentage
James, sounds like you've answered your own question/doubt then? Perhaps you
should head your 'list' as h1Prices/h1 and not h1Price List/h1?
2008/8/11 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disagree.
Many shopping carts on the web have product lists or summarys marked up in
a table. When you look
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 8:20 PM, Stuart Foulstone
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote:
Disagree.
...
Again, just because something is a list does not mean it should be in a
list. Take for example students grades. The school needs to list the
And the same can be said for my example where each row has data relating to
the product, size, color info and price.
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Stuart Foulstone
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
On Mon, August 11, 2008 10:38 am, James Jeffery wrote:
Disagree.
...
Again, just because
Even if it where product and price, as in my origional example, a table is
still more semantic because the data in the rows relate to the columns i.e.
product and price.
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:38 AM, James Jeffery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And the same can be said for my example where each
Rob,
Yeah I have now after extensive research. I have headed the table with a
caption and it uses a h3. There are various parent sections above the
table that use h2 and h1.
Cheers.
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Rob Enslin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
James, sounds like you've answered your
Calm down everyone!
In this case, though no doubt someone can find a dictionary that
disagrees with me, a list could usually be said to be synonymous with a
'single column table' and conversely, a data table is a set of parallel
lists - they are both special cases of each other.
On that basis, I
Not sure web users would care a whole lot if the heading was prices or price
list.
Thanks for the debate chaps; I have struggled over this issue on and off for
some time and this has helped me to define a simple rule which works for me.
[The rule]If the list has multiple columns check
Ian and Micheal, you summed up what I was about to write. Some people got
really defensive.
My argument all along was that a list should not always be marked up as a
list as such. Take ebay for example, they even go to the extent of calling
their results 'lists'. You can see this on results pages
One way to look at it is that a simple list is a list (in the html sense),
whereas a relational list is tabular, so it goes in a table.
So, a simple list of 'things to do' would use an HTML list, whereas a list
which required data giving more information about the primary list element
(a
On 18/07/2008, at 7:45 AM, David Hucklesby wrote:
Of course, there are several other ways to enclose floats that do
not require that extra DIV.
I would have thought that the method described by PIE [1] would be the
only sane way to do this.
--
Nathan de Vries
[1]
David Dorward wrote:
It doesn't really reject it, it just warns you that the combination
doesn't make much sense.
Sigh. Semantics. That was one suggested DOCTYPE that I found -- and
no, I'm not sure at this point where -- but regardless, do you know
the answer to the *original question*:
I vote table. It's not really a list, regardless of the title you put on it.
It's a chart.
Jo
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 4:01 AM, James Jeffery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In the past I have tryed to avoid tables as much as possible and sometimes
going as far as using lists for data that should be
On 11 Aug 2008, at 15:14, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
David Dorward wrote:
It doesn't really reject it, it just warns you that the combination
doesn't make much sense.
Sigh. Semantics. That was one suggested DOCTYPE that I found -- and
no, I'm not sure at this point where -- but regardless,
On 11 Aug 2008, at 15:47, David Dorward wrote:
http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/ says:
?xml version=1.0?
!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD XHTML+ARIA 1.0//EN
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/DTD/xhtml-aria-1.dtd
... except that
On 11 Aug 2008, at 16:47, David Dorward wrote:
On 11 Aug 2008, at 15:14, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
David Dorward wrote:
It doesn't really reject it, it just warns you that the
combination doesn't make much sense.
Sigh. Semantics. That was one suggested DOCTYPE that I found -- and
no, I'm
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Nathan de Vries
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 6:11 AM
To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Subject: Re: [WSG] firefox treatment of wrapper overflow height
On 18/07/2008, at 7:45 AM, David Hucklesby wrote:
On 11 Aug 2008, at 16:16, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
David Dorward wrote:
When will the W3C validator support ARIA?
As I said Now.
Using your provided DTD, a simple test file results in:
1. Error Line 2, Column 76: could not get /MarkUp/DTD/xhtml-
aria-1.dtd from www.w3.org (reason given
David Storey wrote:
When will the W3C validator support ARIA?
I've no idea for HTML, but I'm not sure it is 100% important. If the
rest of your code is valid and the only thing that is invalid is the
WAI-ARIA stuff then that would be good enough for me...
You're missing the point -- I
On 11 Aug 2008, at 17:26, Hassan Schroeder wrote:
David Storey wrote:
When will the W3C validator support ARIA?
I've no idea for HTML, but I'm not sure it is 100% important. If
the rest of your code is valid and the only thing that is invalid
is the WAI-ARIA stuff then that would be
Hi Hassan and everybody,
I think that we have to take a while of silence and think about what is
*necessary* and what is *pointless*.
Well. I'm member of W3C PFWG but I'd like to stress that what follows is my
opinion and does not reflect necessary the opinion of the whole Group.
Well, I
David Storey wrote:
Then your solutions are either to do as the W3C suggests and use the
class attribute for WAI-ARIA role names, and add afterwards using
JavaScript/DOM, or validate before adding the ARIA stuff, then add when
you are sure the rest of the mark up is correct.
or just ignore
David Storey wrote:
thing it adds is giving you more brownie points for validating, while
not allowing WAI-ARIA to work if JavaScript is turned off.
I would have thought that, if JavaScript was turned off, the ARIA stuff
wouldn't be too useful. As its purpose is to communicate dynamic
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