Re: [WSG] WANAU - anyone heard of them?
Tim, if there's no sandwiches, I'm not going. ... ;-) seriously though, I think you have a point, but I don't think your approach will achieve anything. It's like howling at the developers of IE because they were part of a team that brought us a dodgy browser. There are many many good folk building websites at universities and WANAU is one way that they can share their ideas... but, by and large, these are not the people who hold the purse strings and call the shots when it comes to developing big university systems, so there is no use ranting at them and alienating them. You condemn the Griffith page apparently on the basis of a URL that contains unescaped ampersands. I know at Melbourne University, we have had systems that simply would not recognise escaped ampersands in links (haven't checked that one for a while), so we were forced to leave links invalid. These are not little systems - to upgrade or change vendor would cost many many millions of dollars. Not valid and therefore, strictly speaking, not accessible. Still, I couldn't be 100% certain, but I'd take a guess that no-one apart from the validator cared or even noticed. -- Andrew Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.woowoowoo.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] opacity
For a little while, I went down the path of opacity: 0.5; but quickly found that nothing could be done to reverse the effect for children of the object - they all went wishy washy too! actually I've been having problems with opacity with text too... fine in Firefox but IE doesn't seem to recognise it. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WANAU - anyone heard of them?
Thanks Andrew for correcting me and you too Russ. Was I ranting or being prejudiced against sandwiches as a metaphor for procrastination? The latter I thought. Sorry. I don't mind being alienated if a scape goat is required. If there were a page of Aust uni reviews detailing errors in each one it would be a negative reinforcement and potential legal liability that the holders of the Uni budget will be forced to consider. Not the old case of the forced to use unescaped ampersands! When will they ever learn? A page of reviews would help those of you forced to include invalid links in your html. Your Melb Uni page validates nicely. Tim On 11/04/2007, at 3:05 PM, Andrew Harris wrote: Tim, if there's no sandwiches, I'm not going. ... ;-) seriously though, I think you have a point, but I don't think your approach will achieve anything. It's like howling at the developers of IE because they were part of a team that brought us a dodgy browser. There are many many good folk building websites at universities and WANAU is one way that they can share their ideas... but, by and large, these are not the people who hold the purse strings and call the shots when it comes to developing big university systems, so there is no use ranting at them and alienating them. You condemn the Griffith page apparently on the basis of a URL that contains unescaped ampersands. I know at Melbourne University, we have had systems that simply would not recognise escaped ampersands in links (haven't checked that one for a while), so we were forced to leave links invalid. These are not little systems - to upgrade or change vendor would cost many many millions of dollars. Not valid and therefore, strictly speaking, not accessible. Still, I couldn't be 100% certain, but I'd take a guess that no-one apart from the validator cared or even noticed. -- Andrew Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.woowoowoo.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** The Editor Heretic Press http://www.hereticpress.com Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] opacity
For a little while, I went down the path of opacity: 0.5; but quickly found that nothing could be done to reverse the effect for children of the object - they all went wishy washy too! That is the expected behaviour. opacity [1] applies to the whole box (and its descendants), it is _not_ about making the background transparent/translucent. What you want in that case is using rgba() or hsla() colours [2]. rgba() is supported by Safari and I think Konqueror (can't test on my set up). hsla() is supported by Webkit, I think by Konqueror, and by nightly builds of Gecko. actually I've been having problems with opacity with text too... fine in Firefox but IE doesn't seem to recognise it. IE doesn't support the opacity property. It only supports a proprietary property [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#transparency [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#rgba-color Philippe --- Philippe Wittenbergh http://emps.l-c-n.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WANAU - anyone heard of them?
Hi Tim, I'd say Universities are probably aware of the issues with their sites, they just don't have a magic wand to wave to get everything fixed. Universities have massive amounts of information to provide and generally a minimal budget to provide it. Despite that, they are held to very high standards and are a soft target for complaints. What about a page on Australian Universities similar to what I have done for aus.gov.au sites. Australian Universities have in fact been surveyed before (eg. http://ausweb.scu.edu.au/aw03/papers/alexander3/) and the results are an excellent bargaining chip to promote accessibility issues internally. It needs to be a dispassionate review though. Trust me, screaming at people over validation results won't get the results you want. The Griffith site that you so casually dismiss over some unescaped characters actually took a lot of work from a dedicated team. There was no big budget and no CMS to help, but there were some 100,000+ files to manage and transition (through several iterations) from tables+frames to semantic markup. In such situations priorities are set. Perfect validation comes in as a lower priority than, say, getting rid of framesets; adding visible skip links; and adding display preference settings. Wouldn't that be of practical value to shame Aust universities not up to scratch, rather than chatting and more sandwiches? Perhaps you're underestimating the value of knowledge sharing (chatting and sandwiches) to under-resourced university staff :) People may not have the budget to buy huge IT solutions, but they can go to WANAU and brainstorm with other people in the same boat. Frankly just having other people to talk to can make all the difference, keeps people enthused and working towards their goals. Were the outcomes of the WANAU forum concrete and measurable? Some were, some weren't. It's a valuable activity either way. cheers, Ben -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] opacity
actually I've been having problems with opacity with text too... fine in Firefox but IE doesn't seem to recognise it. There are ways of making opacity work across all browsers: http://www.hendel-blackford.com/about.htm is that what you mean?? Can you give a practical example of what you're trying to do?? Thanks, Max. www.thepigfarmer.com *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Re: digest for wsg@webstandardsgroup.org (Away until 16/04/2007)
I am currently away until Monday 16 April 2007. If you have an enquiry please contact: Martha Herewini on 9391 9048 or Saikat Choudhury on 9391 9769 Regards, Marian Weatherstone Web Support Officer NSW Department of Health __ This email has been scanned for the NSW Department of Health by the MessageLabs Email Security System. The Department regularly monitors emails and attachments to ensure compliance with its Electronic Messaging Policy. _ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] colour matching transparent png files
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 13:13:07 +1000, Andrew Harris wrote: Learned friends - hope you can help me. I am having trouble matching transparent png files to html background colours. The dodgy test page here: http://www.woowoowoo.com/pngtest/ illustrates the effect. twe melb wrote: As far as i know png alpha transparency does not work well in IE 5.5 and 6, On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:40:26 +1000, Lachlan Hunt confirmed: Correct. it seems to only works in firefox, And IE7, Opera, Safari, etc. i tend to avoid the use of png as it is not cross browser compatible, Nonsense! Aside from alpha transparency problems in IE6 (and earlier), PNG is widely supported. PNG8 supports index transparency, just like GIF, and that is widely supported. Alpha transparency can be used if care is taken to work around the limitations in IE6. i uses gif instead. Don't use GIF, it is inferior to PNG in every way. Animated GIFs are the exception, but they should be used sparingly anyway. 8-bit PNG works very well, even in IE 5.01. Graphics programs such as Photoshop add a lot of cruft to PNG files, so you need to get an optimizing tool. The result will likely be significantly smaller than a GIF. I believe that IE 5 Mac supports full alpha transparency, along with practically every browser made since then, with the exception of IE for Windows, as Lachlan points out. Please don't give up on PNG for the sake of one old make of browser! Give IE 5/6 Windows its own style that's usable but not quite as pretty. Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] colour matching transparent png files
Please don't give up on PNG for the sake of one old make of browser! Give IE 5/6 Windows its own style that's usable but not quite as pretty. That has 42.3% of the market share. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp I use 24bit transparent pngs on my sites and then use a behavior.htc file to correct it in IE5 / 6 Windows - works fine (apart from with background-image as positions don't work so well). Ben -- e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: http://www.bendodson.com/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] WANAU - anyone heard of them?
Tim wrote: Who are this group, what have they done in previous forums since 2004. I can only add that as a university student of South Australia, I enrolled in and enjoyed Denise Wood's Accessible Interactive Media where all sorts of accessibility was included (eg. captions on video clips for the Internet, keyboard accessibility for Flash, etc.). What has that got to do with the price of tea in China? Denise Wood is the South Australian representative of WANAU. That's what she does :) She teaches uni students to be very careful in accessibility, not just in this specialised course, but in all courses she teaches. Actually, she is really good at it :) Kat *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Hi all Accverify fails my code because my input element does not contain the alt attribute or label. I don't want any text displayed before or after the query text input element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue? input name=q id=queryText value= type=text / input type=image src=abcd id=search_submit name=search_submit alt=Submit search query / Regards Bojana Lalic Web Developer education.au Level 1, 182 Fullarton Road Dulwich, SA 5065 p +61 8 8334 3223 f + 61 8 8334 3211 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w http://www.educationau.edu.au Visit edna at http://www.edna.edu.au Register Now - Everyone has heard of Wikipedia, the online phenomenon of the 21st century, but very few of us know the man behind it. Jimmy Wales is coming to Australia! For further details go to: www.educationau.edu.au/seminar/challenging _ IMPORTANT: This e-mail, including any attachments, may contain private or confidential information. If you think you may not be the intended recipient, or if you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not reproduce any part of this e-mail or disclose its contents to any other party. This email represents the views of the individual sender, which do not necessarily reflect those of education.au limited except where the sender expressly states otherwise. It is your responsibility to scan this email and any files transmitted with it for viruses or any other defects. education.au limited will not be liable for any loss, damage or consequence caused directly or indirectly by this email. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] There's no back button on this website...
Interesting anecdote in the latest AlertBox, particularly in the light of our recent users don't know what the back button is discussion... In testing an e-commerce site last month, for example, one user complained: This is missing a feature to go back to the previous page. I found this apparent request for a Back button puzzling, since the button was featured prominently in the browser and the person had easily used it earlier in the test session. [...] It quickly became clear, however, that the user wasn't asking for a duplicate Back button. Elaborating on the previous complaint, she pointed to the place on the page where breadcrumbs typically appear and said she wanted the list of links to higher-level pages. In other words, the user wanted breadcrumbs. She'd seen them before, but didn't know what they were called, so she asked for them using words that -- if taken literally -- would have been easily misinterpreted. This is a great example of the hard-won lesson of usability: don't comply with user requests. Give more attention to what study participants do than to what they say. Put another way, the injunction is don't comply *unthinkingly* with user requests -- don't give them what they say they want, give them what they *mean* they want... == The information contained in this email and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally privileged or copyright material. It is intended only for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are not permitted to disseminate, distribute or copy this email or any attachments. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. The ABC does not represent or warrant that this transmission is secure or virus free. Before opening any attachment you should check for viruses. The ABC's liability is limited to resupplying any email and attachments == *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Accessible Forms - empty labels (??)
Bojana Lalic wrote:
I don’t want any text displayed before or after the query text input
element. Should I wrap a label around the input element and then hide it
using css? How do I get around this accessibility issue?
Me personally, I setup my form normally using label/input, then apply
absolute positioning to the label if I do not want it to show:
.off, #formId label, .whatever {
position: absolute;
left: -999em;
top: -999em;
}
--
Wishlists: http://snipurl.com/vrs9
Switch: http://browsehappy.com/
BCC?: http://snipurl.com/w6f8
My: http://del.icio.us/mhulse
***
List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm
Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
***
Re: [WSG] There's no back button on this website...
On 12/04/07, John Horner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Put another way, the injunction is don't comply *unthinkingly* with user requests -- don't give them what they say they want, give them what they *mean* they want... That's a very good point. I've often found that outside of the world of developers, very few people use much of the terminology that we take for granted when discussing web pages. They know what they want to see happen, though (sometimes to the dismay of us poor developers!). I think part of the problem also is that I've noticed that this leads a lot of developers to assume that most non-developers are stupid. It's sort of the way some people assume that a person who doesn't speak good English (or other language of choice) must be stupid because they can't express themselves as clearly and concisely. So when they encounter a piece of feedback like This site doesn't have a back button their automatic reaction is to think What a moron! Can't they see that there's a back button in the browser toolbar? Ah well, I'm catering to the lowest common denominator so I guess I'd better put in a button that will duplicate this basic function... and they don't even consider that there could be anything more to it. The person is obviously an idiot, so why probe further? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that every developer thinks like this, but I've encountered a depressing number who do over the years. Cheers, Seona. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] colour matching transparent png files
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:58:05 +0100, Ben Dodson wrote: Please don't give up on PNG for the sake of one old make of browser! Give IE 5/6 Windows its own style that's usable but not quite as pretty. That has 42.3% of the market share. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp And falling. :) Cordially, David -- *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] best standard / format for imbeded mp3 player in browser
Hi all, just wondering which (free) mp3 player works best cross browsers with minimal code etc etc All opinions and suggestions welcome. Thanks, Ben *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] colour matching transparent png files
On 4/12/07, David Hucklesby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 8-bit PNG works very well, even in IE 5.01. Graphics programs such as Photoshop add a lot of cruft to PNG files, so you need to get an optimizing tool. The result will likely be significantly smaller than a GIF. This is true. Alpha info changes the appearance of even 8-bit (indexed) PNG files in IE (and possibly Safari?), though Firefox and Opera ignore the information. My preferred fix is to re-save files using the GIMP. I'm sure there's a clever command-line script someone's cooked up that uses PNGcrush or similar, but I don't know it. -- Joshua Street http://josh.st/ +61 (0) 425 808 469 ABN 64 515 086 181 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] best standard / format for imbeded mp3 player in browser
http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?item=Flash_MP3_Player Best I know of overall Bruce P bkdesign solutions - Original Message - From: Benedict Wyss To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 11:26 PM Subject: [WSG] best standard / format for imbeded mp3 player in browser Hi all, just wondering which (free) mp3 player works best cross browsers with minimal code etc etc All opinions and suggestions welcome. Thanks, Ben *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] best standard / format for imbeded mp3 player in browser
Hi Ben a href=/path/to/file.mp3file.mp3 [50 Kb]/a works well and allows people to play the file in the player of their choice (maybe they even have their browser set up to do this if they want). They can also download it for later playing. If you want to play it inside a browser then I'm sure there is a flash component that will play mp3's with play and pause buttons? HTH James On 4/12/07, Benedict Wyss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, just wondering which (free) mp3 player works best cross browsers with minimal code etc etc All opinions and suggestions welcome. Thanks, Ben *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
