RE: [WSG] google chrome frame
I've spent the last 12 months working on the one of the largest sites in Australia. Over this time we have updated our browser support matrix twice, and will probably update it again soon. For us, IE6 usage is starting to hit a rapid decline, falling at about 1 percentage point a week. The last 3 weeks have been 8.75%, 7.60% and now 6.25%. Considering Chrome is currently unsupported but at 4.57% (and growing), I expect our next update will be to drop IE6 support in favour of adding Chrome support. That being said, the whole site is based on progressive enhancement so it already works in Chrome and we even have a small but consistent set of users browsing on their PS3s. Nevertheless, the decision of which browsers you support (and to what degree you support them) needs to be something that you evaluate and decide yourself using your own market metrics. Anybody who tells you what you should and should not support is most likely an idiot and probably not a very good business person. Thanks, Tatham Oddie au mob: +61 414 275 989, us cell: +1 213 422 7068, skype: tathamoddie, landline: +61 2 8011 3982, fax: +61 2 9475 5172 my business: tixi.com.au Ticketing without the dramas -Original Message- From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Steve Green Sent: Monday, 4 January 2010 11:10 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] google chrome frame In our large-ish corporate environment we're stuck with IE6 as our default probably for another year :( While we know that people have installed newer browsersIE7 is authorised, but not the default--we still can't stop supporting IE6. One of the UK high street banks who has tens of thousands of users recently advised me that they will be retaining IE6 as the default browser until 2014 due to the huge amount of work required to fix the large number of bespoke applications they use. Staff can ask for special dispensation to get IE7 installed but if you've ever tried to get a corporate IT department to do anything you'll understand that very few people will bother asking. I think that techies forget the concerns that ordinary people have about technology. Older users in particular are often reluctant to install or change anything because they don't know what they can trust and they are scared something will break. Unlike us, they don't have the knowledge or facilities to fix anything that goes wrong. I suspect that the kind of websites that ordinary people use will still be seeing significant IE6 traffic (probably in excess of 10%) for a couple more years. The stats for techie sites will be very different, so a decision on whether to support IE6 will depend on the demographics of the visitors. FWIW, one of my team was in Bangalore over Christmas and had to use an Internet café. The machines were running Windows 98! So let's not forget that some parts of the world cannot afford to upgrade as fast as we can. Steve Green *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] google chrome frame
In our large-ish corporate environment we're stuck with IE6 as our default probably for another year :( While we know that people have installed newer browsersIE7 is authorised, but not the default--we still can't stop supporting IE6. One of the UK high street banks who has tens of thousands of users recently advised me that they will be retaining IE6 as the default browser until 2014 due to the huge amount of work required to fix the large number of bespoke applications they use. Staff can ask for special dispensation to get IE7 installed but if you've ever tried to get a corporate IT department to do anything you'll understand that very few people will bother asking. I think that techies forget the concerns that ordinary people have about technology. Older users in particular are often reluctant to install or change anything because they don't know what they can trust and they are scared something will break. Unlike us, they don't have the knowledge or facilities to fix anything that goes wrong. I suspect that the kind of websites that ordinary people use will still be seeing significant IE6 traffic (probably in excess of 10%) for a couple more years. The stats for techie sites will be very different, so a decision on whether to support IE6 will depend on the demographics of the visitors. FWIW, one of my team was in Bangalore over Christmas and had to use an Internet café. The machines were running Windows 98! So let's not forget that some parts of the world cannot afford to upgrade as fast as we can. Steve Green *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] google chrome frame
In our large-ish corporate environment we're stuck with IE6 as our default probably for another year :( While we know that people have installed newer browsers——IE7 is authorised, but not the default--we still can't stop supporting IE6. On 03/01/2010, at 8:54 PM, David Dorward wrote: > On 3 Jan 2010, at 09:32, tee wrote: >> For those corporations that are still using W2K and IE6, will IE6 renders >> like Google Chrome if user installs Google Chrome Frame and that a site has >> it implemented? > > Most of those corporations don't allow end users to install software, and > Chrome frame appears to require XP or newer (so you can count Win2k users > out). > >> However it does not answered if we need to worry about fixing IE6 or not. > > > This nudges the effective usage of IE6 down a little, but the browser is > still out there and you still need to decide about the relative merits of > supporting those users Vs. not doing a lot of work. > > -- > David Dorward > http://dorward.me.uk > > > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** > *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs
Hi Jamie, So good to hear it from people who actually use speech. I also think it makes most sense to use a paragraph for each verse and a break per line. After avoiding breaks I begin to get used on the idea. Thanks, Frances Op 30 dec 2009, om 15:41 heeft Smith, Jamie het volgende geschreven: I work for Blind Services. This was an interesting question, so I sought out two folks that use speech and benefit from coding correctly. The two blind folks that use speech , one an English major, one a verse writer, noted they would prefer that the code was done so verses equate to paragraph. They don’t want to read poems as lists. And both often use the paragraph level to read poems to better enjoy them. Paragraph by line, they both noted would make it too choppy if using the paragraph level to read the poem. So, I’d use the paragraph code at the front of the verse, each line having a line break. From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of Frances de Waal Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 3:42 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] breaks, lists in a form or not, and more or less divs Hi there, May I ask your opinion about some semantic/HTML basics? In case of a poem, if I place every verse in a paragraph, what do I do with each line of text in the verse? Is this one of the very few occasions to use breaks? A verse doesn't seem a list to me... or is it? I like your opinion. In the very few tutorials I have seen about how to markup a form semantically, both were using a list in the form. To me that seems totally unneccessary plus too much markup. Does anyone know what can be the reason of doing it that way? InContextEditing, the online CMS from Adobe, needs a extra div for every editable region. This makes me avoiding the tool. Some keep saying that extra divs don't make any difference to a page at all. I agree they have no meaning semantically, but they do create extra code which is not neccessary for the content. But then again, we don't talk about 100 divs here. So, besides of best practice, is there any place where the extra divs may have bad influence? Frances de Waal www.waalweb.nl *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] google chrome frame
On 3 Jan 2010, at 09:32, tee wrote: > For those corporations that are still using W2K and IE6, will IE6 renders > like Google Chrome if user installs Google Chrome Frame and that a site has > it implemented? Most of those corporations don't allow end users to install software, and Chrome frame appears to require XP or newer (so you can count Win2k users out). > However it does not answered if we need to worry about fixing IE6 or not. This nudges the effective usage of IE6 down a little, but the browser is still out there and you still need to decide about the relative merits of supporting those users Vs. not doing a lot of work. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] google chrome frame
This new kid has been showing up in a number of sites' stats that I built. Wonder if this may spread the use of HTML 5, also curious what benefit will it be for us web developers to push IE6 down to 18th level of hell. For those corporations that are still using W2K and IE6, will IE6 renders like Google Chrome if user installs Google Chrome Frame and that a site has it implemented? It seems to be. Quote: Users running Internet Explorer with Google Chrome Frame installed will automatically have their pages rendered by Google Chrome Frame However it does not answered if we need to worry about fixing IE6 or not. tee *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
