[WSG] nav element
Hi, Working with the semantical HTML5 elements I keep feeling aversion to the extra elements I am producing. Like the nav element, using it as a container for a menu in an list does not feel as an advantage, I never needed a container for the list before. I trained myself in keeping the code as clean and small as possible and now I am simply creating more elements. How about a nav element containing just links? I can think of answer myself like that a nav element may also contain a header, or contain paragraph with links inside the text. So this could lead to the conclusion that (with keeping in mind to never use an element unless you need it) that I should only use the nav element in such cases, and that a nav element around a simple list is not adding anything to it but creating more code. Anyone having any thoughts on this? Bye, Frances www.waalweb.nl www.smartscripts.nl Zelfstudiehandboek Websites Ontwikkelen met HTML, CSS en Dreamweaver WaalWeb | Halfweg, Noord-Holland | KvK 34350833 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Out of Office AutoReply: WSG Digest
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Re: [WSG] nav element
Hi Frances, I think you might be missing some of the semantics. I might include a list in a page, such as a list of references, or a friend list where each friend was linked to their public profile - but those aren't navigation links. The nav / element tells search engines etc. what this list of links is for. Dunno if that makes sense, Phil. On 22/11/2011 14:32, Frances de Waal wrote: Hi, Working with the semantical HTML5 elements I keep feeling aversion to the extra elements I am producing. Like the nav element, using it as a container for a menu in an list does not feel as an advantage, I never needed a container for the list before. I trained myself in keeping the code as clean and small as possible and now I am simply creating more elements. How about a nav element containing just links? I can think of answer myself like that a nav element may also contain a header, or contain paragraph with links inside the text. So this could lead to the conclusion that (with keeping in mind to never use an element unless you need it) that I should only use the nav element in such cases, and that a nav element around a simple list is not adding anything to it but creating more code. Anyone having any thoughts on this? Bye, Frances www.waalweb.nl www.smartscripts.nl Zelfstudiehandboek Websites Ontwikkelen met HTML, CSS en Dreamweaver WaalWeb | Halfweg, Noord-Holland | KvK 34350833 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Phil Archer W3C eGovernment http://www.w3.org/egov/ http://philarcher.org @philarcher1 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] nav element
On 11/22/11 6:32 AM, Frances de Waal wrote: Hi, Working with the semantical HTML5 elements I keep feeling aversion to the extra elements I am producing. Like the nav element, using it as a container for a menu in an list does not feel as an advantage, I never needed a container for the list before. I trained myself in keeping the code as clean and small as possible and now I am simply creating more elements. How about a nav element containing just links? I can think of answer myself like that a nav element may also contain a header, or contain paragraph with links inside the text. So this could lead to the conclusion that (with keeping in mind to never use an element unless you need it) that I should only use the nav element in such cases, and that a nav element around a simple list is not adding anything to it but creating more code. Anyone having any thoughts on this? FWIW - I also include a heading element inside the nav element (or div class=nav ). This is for the benefit of non-visual agents, or for cases where CSS is not applied. (Go naked day ???) example: nav h2Site Navigation/h2 ul lia href=??Home/a/li ... /ul /nav This heading is not needed where convention dictates the purpose of the links - as in the case of a menu bar, for example. So it can be moved off screen or otherwise visually hidden, but available to screen readers etc. HTH. -- Cordially, David *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] nav element
Hi Phil, Yes, you are right, and screenreaders have the opportunity to skip the nav, for instance. It is just that when I work with this I keep having the feeling it is a bit overdone and I keep looking for some logic to simplify things. So I wonder how others deal with this, maybe something I didn't think of...? Frances Op 22 nov 2011, om 16:16 heeft Phil Archer het volgende geschreven: Hi Frances, I think you might be missing some of the semantics. I might include a list in a page, such as a list of references, or a friend list where each friend was linked to their public profile - but those aren't navigation links. The nav / element tells search engines etc. what this list of links is for. Dunno if that makes sense, Phil. On 22/11/2011 14:32, Frances de Waal wrote: Hi, Working with the semantical HTML5 elements I keep feeling aversion to the extra elements I am producing. Like the nav element, using it as a container for a menu in an list does not feel as an advantage, I never needed a container for the list before. I trained myself in keeping the code as clean and small as possible and now I am simply creating more elements. How about a nav element containing just links? I can think of answer myself like that a nav element may also contain a header, or contain paragraph with links inside the text. So this could lead to the conclusion that (with keeping in mind to never use an element unless you need it) that I should only use the nav element in such cases, and that a nav element around a simple list is not adding anything to it but creating more code. Anyone having any thoughts on this? Bye, Frances www.waalweb.nl www.smartscripts.nl Zelfstudiehandboek Websites Ontwikkelen met HTML, CSS en Dreamweaver WaalWeb | Halfweg, Noord-Holland | KvK 34350833 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Phil Archer W3C eGovernment http://www.w3.org/egov/ http://philarcher.org @philarcher1 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] nav element
Thank you, David, good to know, I am afraid this is an example of what made me pose this question :). Suppose time will solve it all! Frances Op 22 nov 2011, om 16:52 heeft David Hucklesby het volgende geschreven: On 11/22/11 6:32 AM, Frances de Waal wrote: Hi, Working with the semantical HTML5 elements I keep feeling aversion to the extra elements I am producing. Like the nav element, using it as a container for a menu in an list does not feel as an advantage, I never needed a container for the list before. I trained myself in keeping the code as clean and small as possible and now I am simply creating more elements. How about a nav element containing just links? I can think of answer myself like that a nav element may also contain a header, or contain paragraph with links inside the text. So this could lead to the conclusion that (with keeping in mind to never use an element unless you need it) that I should only use the nav element in such cases, and that a nav element around a simple list is not adding anything to it but creating more code. Anyone having any thoughts on this? FWIW - I also include a heading element inside the nav element (or div class=nav ). This is for the benefit of non-visual agents, or for cases where CSS is not applied. (Go naked day ???) example: nav h2Site Navigation/h2 ul lia href=??Home/a/li ... /ul /nav This heading is not needed where convention dictates the purpose of the links - as in the case of a menu bar, for example. So it can be moved off screen or otherwise visually hidden, but available to screen readers etc. HTH. -- Cordially, David *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] nav element
On 11/22/11 6:32 AM, Frances de Waal wrote: ,,, and that a nav element around a simple list is not adding anything to it but creating more code. Of course it's adding something: semantics beyond that of a generic list, which provides no metadata about what it contains. Personally, I say it's worth adding a tag for that. YMMV. -- Hassan Schroeder - has...@webtuitive.com webtuitive design === (+1) 408-621-3445 === http://webtuitive.com http://about.me/hassanschroeder twitter: @hassan dream. code. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Using ellipsis to indicate truncated overflow content
text-overflow: ellipsis? http://www.quirksmode.org/css/textoverflow.html Thank you, yes, the text-overflow property is great but does not work in Firefox 3.6. Do you know of a work-around for Firefox. Unless you have a really massive FF 3.6 userbase that you know is blocked from upgrades, I'd say use it anyway. People regularly use things that don't work in IE - it doesn't stop being Progressive Enhancement just because Firefox was the weakest link in this case :) cheers, Ben -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
