RE: [WSG] Sydney Workshop: Practical CSS Page Layout - it's on!
Well - I'm half convinced. I even have the go ahead to get some corporate dosh to pay for it! But two questions: I'm kinda ofay with CSS, aware of the box model, I even know it needs tweaking - but I never can get it quite over the line so to speak. Is this the guy to help? This course is cheap - really cheap. Instead of complaining it's too expensive - my dept heads are asking why so cheap? - so, why so cheap? Thanks ppl! Ps - Nearly pulled off my first full css based client layout, just two damned issues I can't eradicate! From: russ weakley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 10/11/03 9:47 PM To: Web Standards Group Subject: [WSG] Sydney Workshop: Practical CSS Page Layout - it's on! For those who have joined recently, the Sydney CSS workshop with John Allsopp (Westciv) is now definitely happening on Friday 5th December and there are still some free places! Further info: http://www.westciv.com/courses/workshops/index.html Application form (print and post): http://www.westciv.com/courses/workshops/form.html WSG members get a 10% discount. Thanks Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * winmail.dat
[WSG] OT: multiple IE versions
Just a bit of an update: It's now possible to run both Internet Explorer 3 and Internet Explorer 4.01 in addition to 5.01sp2 and 5.5sp2 (and 6.0!) all on the one machine. Get the gump here: http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/94.php The files required are zipped and ready for exploitation. Now all we windows users need is to get Mac IE and Safari running without an emulator. I can dream can't I? Brendan winmail.dat
[WSG] Bookmark plugin: Was: do people still use bookmarks?
With all the OT posts lately - I don't feel as guilty posting this : ) I have always wanted to be able to make my bookmarks available. From anywhere. Everywhere. Home, work, cafe's, mate's houses - even the in-laws. Maybe even my dingy PDA. I always envisioned it being a plugin that worked in three modes: 1. Use the plugin as a sidebar/dropdown etc within the browser app to display my links (good for public spots) 2. Use the plugin to add a subfolder to the browsers bookmarks and import them (good for frequently visited friends houses) 3. Use the plugin to trump my local bookmarks and refresh/update them (for everything under my control [que evil laugh]) The plugin would have to have a spot on the net it could publish the bookmark file too and of course read it back to a local cache. The bookmark file would have META data (probably a badly mixed term) that could hold last visited details, my notes, etc. This file would be valid XML (of course), prime for add-on link-swapping_blog-publishing_P2P-bashing goodness. The remote file would only be updated when a bookmark was added, or an option to save the bookmarks was used so as to keep the 'net chater down. Its transactions would be regular HTTP methods (form posts/gets etc.), nothing that could be gazumped by your friendly Hitler Youth run IT Dept and 3rd reich filtering firewalls. I would like to see it for firebird, though it would be better if it ran cross browser - so I could use it on whomever's PC I'm at. It would also mean that you could update your bookmarks between browsers breeds easy as pie. Imagine your treasured favelets available at your beck and call - at your grandmothers house! Nothing worse for me knowing that I bookmarked an answer for a doosie problem in my browser at work, while I'm stuck at home with just that very doosie. With google changing it's spots - who's to say I'll ever google the answer back? One downer might be that the ctrl-d and equivilent bookmark shortcuts might not work, but only a small worry - right? Another would be the remote storage spot. It would have to be able to do the processing of the bookmark file. I see two options - a hosted space with a user name and login, and secondly - a page you throw on your own server that you configure the bookmark plugin to use. An add-on for MT and other blogging apps would propogate quickly too (I reckon). Point your bookmark plugin to your Blogging add-on and update your blog rolls and favourites while you keep your local browser up to date. A ubiquitous bookmark. Neat huh? Would you use it? What would you add? Brendan PS - If anyone has an inkling of how to start such a development project - I'd love to hear from you. PPS - If you think it's a good idea - then it's my copyright - ok? ; ) PPS - Yep - I run off at the mouth - but I luuurve this idea. From: Ben Boyle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Fri 12/12/03 5:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] do people still use bookmarks? do people still use bookmarks? For myself, only rarely. I recently read a post on a search engine list (I-Search, very good if you're looking for something on the topic) where it was suggested that people do not bookmark/remember URLs as often these days because it's so straightforward to just go to google and type it in. I'd never thought about it really, but realise now I'm guilty of this behaviour... trying to track down places I remember through the search rather than bookmarking at the time I visit. Thought it was worth a mention. I still think it's nice to have a URL that can sort of be read ... nothing like session strings in the address bar to make you feel you really are dealing with the inhuman face of a company! :) * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * winmail.dat
RE: [WSG] Web Editor?
Title: Web Editor? Happy new year all! Have kind thoughts for a poor fella who starts work again today after a short holiday break. Good question Taco. Im currently building an online template based CMS that I have sold to a hosting company. I originally had grand plans of beautifully marked up code being the end result, but it seems that the embedded content editor is the weakest link. Most seem to completely lack the ability to drive the formatting from a CSS file. My goal was to completely control layout from a CSS template. Not to mention that tags like font, i, b, and our other friends are used in abundance. I have looked at: http://www.cfdev.com/activedit/ (just bloody awful) http://www.editlet.com/testdrive/dhtml/dhtml_test.htm# (bad html output) http://www.siteobjects.com/pages/soeditorfaq.cfm (No cross browser, no mac) http://www.interakt.ro/products/KTML/ (span style=font-weight: bold; and font tags!) http://www.devedit.com/ (No cross browser, no mac) http://www.editize.com/ (looks great, but no mention of css) However Im using (till something better comes up): http://www.ephox.com/product/ It seems to have the right notions about what is correct mark-up. The Java 2.5 version even mentions the W3C Tidy app and mapping B and I to STRONG and EM. Works cross browser, you can limit the HTML file you are using with content editable regions, apply strict CSS use its got some good things going for it. It comes in lots a different flavours too. Version 3.0 for windows looks like a real hum-dinger. Cleans imported MS Word code. Tell em the price son!. She aint cheap. Check the pricing page for your preferred version. Im giving serious consideration to (as of this email!): http://www.wysiwygpro.com/index.asp (cross browser, cheap! seems compliant to a degree, uses CSS (even against a HTML snippet)) I gave serious consideration to: http://www.interactivetools.com/iforum/P15734/ (cross browser, spell checker, open source!) but the lack of CSS implementation is what again nabbed that idea. For more info, refer to these lists pretty comprehensive! http://www.bris.ac.uk/is/projects/cms/ttw/ttw.html#os http://dmoz.org/Computers/Software/Internet/Authoring/HTML/WYSIWYG_Editors/ Hope this helps Be great to see some input from others! Brendan !!! A BIG PS !!! PS. Is there anyone out there who wants to chat about building CMS sites? I could really use a sounding board for some ideas, and gain some direction from those who might have had some experience. Too many ideas and a limited attention span are really playing havoc with this wee project. -Original Message- From: Taco Fleur [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, 12 January 2004 9:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Web Editor? What Web Editor out there produces the cleanest and most valid code? - Editor that is embedded in IE (seen it, produces really nasty markup) - Editor that is embedded in Netscape (no exprience) - Ektron (used it many years ago, was pretty happy with it) - . - Etc. And which one works in most of the browsers? Taco Fleur 07 3535 5072 http://www.tacofleur.com/index/blog/ Tell me and I will forget Show me and I will remember Teach me and I will learn
RE: [WSG] OT: damn I feel old
Awww heck - I don't mind. Well for as long as Pete F stays on the list anyhow ;) 31 - 32 in June. So, stop your whinin' grin Brendan From: Miles Tillinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 19/01/04 4:12 PM To: Web Standards Group (E-mail) Subject: [WSG] OT: damn I feel old There is really no other way of finding this out other than posting to the list, so here goes some OT goodness: A couple of 'youngsters' posted today, one 17 (from Plone.org) and one 16, both must be pretty competent web designers from the links they've posted, especially Plone, i love what they do! Made me feel a bit long in the tooth at 27, so I started wondering how old you gurus are? Would be good to get an idea of where we sit demographically... p.s. if you don't want to post your age on the list, feel free to email me direct if you really want to be part of my little survey... Regards, Miles. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * winmail.dat
RE: [WSG] turning back to the dark side...
And by the way ... I'm your father. Am I to take it then that CSS is essentially a bunch of Jedi mind tricks? Brendan From: Universal Head [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tue 09/03/04 4:12 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] turning back to the dark side... Good one Ross! Nice site ... though maybe a bit more leading in the body copy would make it easy to read (sorry for being picky). And by the way ... I'm your father. Peter ;) On 09/03/2004, at 4:00 PM, Paul Ross wrote: As a footnote to this thread I want to add that I did in fact stick to the light and the way and the website was launched as XHTML/CSS. Universal Head Design That Works. 7/43 Bridge Rd Stanmore NSW 2048 Australia T (+612) 9517 1466 F (+612) 9565 4747 E [EMAIL PROTECTED] W www.universalhead.com winmail.dat
[WSG] IES and Firefox issues
I apologize in advance for the HTML email - using a web based client without the option to change to plain - expect a new client soon! Precursory info: * Yup, it validates (HTML and CSS) * http://www.websiteoptimization.com/ gave me a pat on the head! * Sorry about the secure URL, it's the only place I'm allowed to play in public. I'm having issues with the treemenu on the left in firefox, and with the positioning of the content area in IE. Firefox will not display scroll bars when the tree expands beyond the dimensions of it's containing div. (Finger in mouth, Dr Evil style) IE does, why won't firefox? What am I doing wrong there? (Before you rush to its defence - yes Firefox is a gift from the HTML Goddess) IE will play silly buggers with my main content area. When re-sizing your browser, it will let/make the content area jump below the tree menu. What-tha? (Before you rush to his defence, Rove is a Wally). Do I have a dimension error? Last time I checked 25% and 75% equalled 100%! Still I'm sure I've stuffed it - I just can't see where... Supplemental Project info: (If you're interested) This is a web app that will facilitate: * image searching, annotation, display and indexing/archiving (of all document/mime types) * email subscription/management for the delivery of bulk information (invoice delivery, con-note retrieval etc, anything from the archive above) * bill payment of above said documents/archive contents * customer service facilities (for phone based assistance) * JSP and beans with side helping of Oracle 10.g served on jBoss in Windows and Linux flavours * blah blah blah - you get the picture... All the above systems are alive and kicking - this is just a rewrite of several interfaces into one standards based layout. winmail.dat
[WSG] IES and Firefox issues - Link included
Yes, it's that secure I forgot the link: https://monitor.hpa.com.au/ies/ I apologize in advance for the HTML email - using a web based client without the option to change to plain - expect a new client soon! Precursory info: * Yup, it validates (HTML and CSS) * http://www.websiteoptimization.com/ gave me a pat on the head! * Sorry about the secure URL, it's the only place I'm allowed to play in public. I'm having issues with the treemenu on the left in firefox, and with the positioning of the content area in IE. Firefox will not display scroll bars when the tree expands beyond the dimensions of it's containing div. (Finger in mouth, Dr Evil style) IE does, why won't firefox? What am I doing wrong there? (Before you rush to its defence - yes Firefox is a gift from the HTML Goddess) IE will play silly buggers with my main content area. When re-sizing your browser, it will let/make the content area jump below the tree menu. What-tha? (Before you rush to his defence, Rove is a Wally). Do I have a dimension error? Last time I checked 25% and 75% equalled 100%! Still I'm sure I've stuffed it - I just can't see where... Supplemental Project info: (If you're interested) This is a web app that will facilitate: * image searching, annotation, display and indexing/archiving (of all document/mime types) * email subscription/management for the delivery of bulk information (invoice delivery, con-note retrieval etc, anything from the archive above) * bill payment of above said documents/archive contents * customer service facilities (for phone based assistance) * JSP and beans with side helping of Oracle 10.g served on jBoss in Windows and Linux flavours * blah blah blah - you get the picture... All the above systems are alive and kicking - this is just a rewrite of several interfaces into one standards based layout. winmail.dat
RE: [WSG] IES and Firefox issues - Link included
My theory: the auto height on #tree_menu_container expands the container to fit the content. Therefore the browser sees no need to add scrollbars. OK - I'll play with that and see how I go Probably a combination of the 100% width + 1px border on the table (which presumably will have tabular data). Try removing the table width, changing it to 99% and/or removing the table border. The more I look at it, the more it seems to be the case. I'll have to think of a better way to add that border, maybe on an element inside that container? Incidentally, the javascript locked up MSIE for over a minute (after initial loading) and it was loading something like 180 files (presumably images). Ouch. Yep - I found that out too - that stuff is to support transparent pngs in IE. I use pngs in the tree menu - and in the background of the table cells. Looks like I'll have to throw it. It's a javascript trick from youngpup.net to apply that nasty transparency filter in IE. Thanks for taking the time to look. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Bert Doorn Sent: Wed 07/07/04 8:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] IES and Firefox issues - Link included Firefox will not display scroll bars when the tree expands beyond the dimensions of it's containing div. My theory: the auto height on #tree_menu_container expands the container to fit the content. Therefore the browser sees no need to add scrollbars. IE will play silly buggers with my main content area. Probably a combination of the 100% width + 1px border on the table (which presumably will have tabular data). Try removing the table width, changing it to 99% and/or removing the table border. Incidentally, the javascript locked up MSIE for over a minute (after initial loading) and it was loading something like 180 files (presumably images). Ouch. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design www.bwdzine.net Fast-loading, user-friendly websites * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * winmail.dat
[WSG] Firefox 1.0
Hi all, Well it's finally here. Firefox 1.0. Yeah, you probably already know, but for those that don't... With an amazing history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Firefox) of development, this little-browser-that-could has finally reached a milestone to be proud of. If you're as much of a Firefox buff as I am, maybe you might want to let some of your IE using visitors and friends know of this lightweight (4.7mb!), safer, feature packed alternative. I'll stop there before I sound too evangelical. Go here and grab it from the official website at http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/, though http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/1032985422/1 and http://www.download.com/Mozilla-Firefox/3000-2356_4-10335582.html?tag=lst-2- 4 might have it in your hands a little quicker. Download.com has registered nearly a million downloads! Holy Toledo! There are also a couple of Torrents running too: Windows version: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.0/win32/en-US/Fire fox%20Setup%201.0.exe.torrent Linux version: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/1.0/linux-i686/en-US /firefox-1.0.tar.gz.torrent If you're a web developer, you can't miss out on installing extensions like the Web developer extension - a plethora of tools, too many to list! Colorzilla - a colour picker and zoom tool, DOM inspector and more. JavaScript debugger - Venkman JavaScript debugger in an extension. IE View - View the current page in IE, for those stubborn sites built old OLD school, or for testing your latest creation. FirefoxView - just like the previous extension, just in reverse! Html Validator - works in the view source window, great when you're offline or at a client site with just a browser and insert text editor of your choice! Go and check them out at https://update.mozilla.org/extensions/?application=firefox, though the Firefox extension site may be a little busy for a while. One other thing I have noticed is that the native stylesheet switcher in Firefox has not made a comeback - however there is an extension out there called Style Sheet Chooser that has brought it back from the forgotten. Ok, that's all from me on the Firefox front. Hope it helps. Brendan. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Web app guidance/site comment
Greetings all, I'm currently working on a web app that I have created in as much of a web standards karma giving way as I can muster. If I could get some feed back on this little number from the crowd out there I would be most greatful. General tips and pointers are what I'm after. If you look closely enough it might be blatantly obvious who this project is for. Ok, if you're from Sydney Australia and drive a car/have a license that is. https://monitor.hpa.com.au/rta/ https://monitor.hpa.com.au/rta/ This is in no way a live product, and for the most part are just a bunch of static HTML files. Expect no magic within! Or live database for that matter. I have managed to keep the majority of pages valid in both HTML and CSS. (When I typed that I felt I should get a badge or something?) The only quirk I have with it is how some tables will wrap/drop below the menu on IE in tight areas (narrow your browser on the home page). Is this to be expected? Thanks in advance for your time... Brendan winmail.dat
[WSG] Adobe Buys Macromedia
Oh - my - insert deity here. http://www.markme.com/mesh/archives/007504.cfm http://www.markme.com/mesh/archives/007504.cfm http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/invrelations/adobeandmacromedia.html http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/invrelations/adobeandmacromedia.html Where do things go from here for standards aware tools? Do we have to brow beat Adobe into listening to its user base? Who knows. Interesting scary times ahead. Brendan winmail.dat
[WSG] Flash 100% wide layout issues - resorting to javascript - eek!
Hi all, I've come crawling back with some issues. I never seem to be much help to anyone else - I hope someone can help me here. I have a page that has a banner, a menu, a side (tree) menu, a flash image viewing app as the main content, a control pannel and a footer. My (unobtainable?) goal is to have the flash viewer take up all available height and width of the viewer window. The viewer is going to be used to view scanned/generated images of documents sent to the clients of our clients. The footer and tree menu are optional on some pages. I'm having issues with the layout in general - I seem to be so close in so many ways, and yet so freakin' far in others - it's so elusive! cue organ music I've faltered my brothers (and sisters) -I ran screaming back to my _javascript_ skills - crying for a solution to my woes - help me be strong! I used some _javascript_ to calculate the heights and widths and set some dimensions of the divs and flash. Before I faltered to _javascript_... Firefox tended to make the flash viewer stetch to 100% of the window, no matter what the actual size of it's container. In IE the width can seem fine, but then the viewer wants to be 100% of the browser window height, ignoring the height of it's container. I havemy _javascript_ stained version at https://demo.hpa.com.au/OLM/test/apps/ies/viewer_alpha1.htm This version is the closest to where I want to get to, however there are issues when you resize the browser, the float on the side tree menu and the width of the flash viewer makes the flash viewer slip below the tree. I don't want to use the _javascript_ if I can help it. I need the flash viewer to be as large as possible (contractual agreement). I want to be xHTML transitional. Please get in touch, after 4 days of racking my head I just seem to be stuck in a rut. Thanks all. Brendan PS - Can't wait for the Jeff Veen workshop!
[WSG] Flash and 100% height - retry and apologies
Firstly, not to excuse the format of my previous email, but
I'm stuck with the Outlook Web Access mail client. Try as I might to get it to
send text emails, this is as close as it gets. I apologise for any inconvenience
it may have caused. I have to say it was dishearteningto see my request
trashed before it was read, so I come to you all again humbled
somewhat.
Thanks to Russ, Martin and David for their
responses.
I have changed tact with my problem with
the suggestions I received. I'm now trying an absolute layout and I think I'm
closer, but IE is still nabbing me with it's insistence that the Flash
application must be set to 100% of the viewport.
Viewing this URL in Firefox https://demo.hpa.com.au/OLM/test/apps/ies/need_help3.htm
gives me the result I need: 100px of space
top and bottom of the "viewer app", 150px of space to the left of it. The viewer
is snug up against the right of the window. Finally if the browser is resized,
the spacing remains and the viewer app expands/contracts it's dimensions to fill
the available area. This isn't the final layout intended, but is enough to
figure the logic I require (I think!)
IE maintains the spacing on the top, left
and bottom of the app and keeps it snug to the right, but it calculates the
dimension of the viewer to equal 100% of the viewport height.
I hope it is not taboo, here is the
relevant CSS and HTML:
style
type="text/css"!--body, html {height:
100%;width: 100%;margin: 0px;padding:
0px;background-color:#99;}#viewer{position:absolute;top:
100px;bottom: 100px;left: 150px;right:
0px;background-color:#339900;}#imageviewer{height:
100%;width: 100%;}
--/style/headbody
div id="viewer" object
type="application/x-shockwave-flash"
data=""
id="imageviewer" param
name="movie"
value="../../flashviewer/ImageViewer.swf?imageurl=https://demo.hpa.com.au/OLM/test/testxml/test1.xml"
/ param name="quality"
value="best" / param
name="menu" value="false" /
/object /div /body
Thanks for your time,
Brendan.
