[WSG] unobtrusive js, document.submit IE
I have built a standard form with a list of options using radio buttons.
The form is for internal use only but I still want to maintain standards
and accessibility.
To improve the look of it for the client I have added some javascript
which hides the buttons and uses onclick events on the labels so that
the submit button doesn't need to be clicked.
This works fine on Firefox but does not work on IE with javascript enabled.
I did a search and found that there may be a conflict where there is a
document.submit and a submit button in the html.
I tried removing the submit button using the DOM but that has no effect.
I was rather pleased to get this working on Firefox as its my first
attempt at completely separating scripting and html.
Can anyone shed any light on this?
See code below.
===
window.onload = initElement
function initElement() {
var inputs,i;
if (document.library_form) {
inputs=document.getElementsByTagName('input')
for(i=0;iinputs.length;i++) {
inputs[i].style.display = 'none'
inputs[i].onclick = function() { submitform(); return false }
}
n = i - 1
o = document.getElementById('library_form')
p = o.getElementsByTagName('div')[n]
o.removeChild(p)
}
}
function submitform() {
document.getElementById('library_form').submit();
}
Kind Regards
--
Chris Price
Choctaw
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.choctaw.co.uk
Tel. 01524 825 245
Mob. 0777 451 4488
Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder
while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional
~~~
-+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+-
~~~
Choctaw Media Limited is a company
registered in England and Wales
with company number 04627649
Registered Office:
Lonsdale Partners,
Priory Close,
St Mary's Gate,
Lancaster LA1 1XB
United Kingdom
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Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js, document.submit IE
Kenny Graham wrote: To improve the look of it for the client I have added some javascript which hides the buttons and uses onclick events on the labels so that the submit button doesn't need to be clicked. I've done something somewhat similar recently, and found this was finally an excuse to use the noscript element. Try sticking your submit button inside a noscript instead of hiding it with javascript. Worth a try. I tried the noscript and even took out the submit button (should have tried that earlier) but they made no difference. It looks like the answer lies elsewhere. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js, document.submit IE
James Denholm-Price wrote:
inputs[i].style.display = 'none'
hides the input element but the next line:
inputs[i].onclick = function() { submitform(); return false }
attaches an onclick event handler to the (now hidden) element -- it's
possible that IE does not honour the label relationship after the
element is hidden so a click on the label fails to trigger the hidden
input's onclick.
Try attaching the onclick to the label element itself, e.g. the
following seems to work for me in IE6:
inputs[i].parentNode .onclick = function() { submitform(); return false }
However I think it'd be better to have the radio's kept visible so
users can understand what they do...
The issue was with the display:none. I also tried visibility:hidden but
it had the same effect.
The parentNode solution didn't work because the form didn't pass the
variables though the onclick worked.
For the time being I have left the buttons visible. I'm still getting
the form to submit with 1 click which was my prime objective and if I
need to do something about the buttons I will try another tack that
doesn't conflict with screen readers.
The user won't be expecting radio buttons. I'm using a form so that I
can post the information.
The difference between IE and Firefox is interesting. It makes sense why
IE didn't accept the instructions.
Thanks for your help. Its fixed my immediate problem and got me a little
further in mastering the DOM.
--
Chris Price
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Re: [WSG] tabular data
Bob Schwartz wrote: Is there a definition of what is considered tabular data (or is it in the eyes of the beholder)? Would this be acceptable for using a table: http://www.fifeweb.org/wp/org/org_jdg_sdt_lst.html This looks like a candidate for a table but my concern would be that the table is not well constructed. There is no thead, tbody, summary, scope... and where the judges are highlighted with an image there is no data. Rather, a class is used to style the cell. Have you checked this against the spec for html tables on the W3C site? Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PopUp windows
Bob Schwartz wrote: The target is not used, it is popup via js or regular window without. I raised this a while ago. One argument is that if the doctype does not allow the target attribute then you're just cheating by using javascript; in which case, getting the page to validate is little more than a trick. New windows do raise accessibility issues and they break the back button and you have to address these issues. However, clients do expect to have pop-ups so you have to decide whether to 'cheat' or use the appropriate doctype. Ultimately you're designing for your clients and users, not the canons of WSG. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] PopUp windows
Kim Kruse wrote: And that brings up another problem! Ever tried to book tickets online. Almost everything pops up in new windows... dates, numbers of travelers, payment and verification etc and now I've to allow these windows to pop if I want to book my tickets :) When I paid for hosting through WorldPay I got a message asking if I wanted get my card verified. I didn't realize I was going to get a pop-up and after deciding this wasn't worth the effort I abandoned the exercise only to find the pop-up in the background. I had a similar thing with a client who was double clicking the pop-up link on his website and, of course, that brought the main window back into focus and hid the pop-up. Its easy to forget how frustrating some of these nifty tricks can be when you don't get the behaviour you expect. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] doing things right
Bob Schwartz wrote: That's what I thought, but a few days ago someone made a snide remark about them on a test page I had put up, so I just thought I'd double check. Was it because css was being used to indicate a cell was selected when there was no data there (nbsp)? I'm glad you brought this up because I've just realized I have done the same thing with a calendar showing dates available. I've used css to indicate availability when the actual data tells me nothing. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] unobtrusive js, document.submit IE
Gaspar wrote: I thinks this would help, http://www.friendsofed.com/download.html?isbn=1590595335 DOM Scripting he have somes examples it's allowed to download, in chapter 11 on contact.html see the example. And if u buy the book u will learn some good stuff . On 04/03/07, Chris Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have built a standard form with a list of options using radio buttons. To improve the look of it for the client I have added some javascript which hides the buttons and uses onclick events on the labels so that the submit button doesn't need to be clicked. This works fine on Firefox but does not work on IE with javascript enabled. Thanks for the link. I fixed the problem last week. The problem was, I had hidden the radio buttons using js and IE decided it couldn't submit a button that didn't exist. I have since hidden the buttons by absolutely positioning the labels. With js disabled it all reverts to a standard form. I have to say that most of the problems I have had with IE lately have actually been faults with my code or logic where Firefox has been too forgiving. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] scope, cols and colgroups
I thought I had scope, cols and colgroups figured out until I built a table that clearly showed that I hadn't. I have built a simplified table that illustrates this at http://choctaw.co.uk/tabletest/ I want all all min columns coloured green and max columns coloured yellow but more than that I want to know where my logic has gone wrong. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] scope, cols and colgroups
Philippe Wittenbergh wrote: On Jun 28, 2007, at 11:17 PM, Chris Price wrote: I have built a simplified table that illustrates this at http://choctaw.co.uk/tabletest/ Your page is invalid. 1. a colgroup cannot be nested in another colgroup http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/tables.html#edef-COLGROUP is not really clear. The html5 draft can help: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/section-tabular.html#the-colgroup 2. you have a xml syntax in there: colgroup / colgroup is _not_ an empty element, it cannot use self closing syntax. Thanks for that. There is a lot of information in both those links (I've seen the W3C one before). I went to the webaim.org website which has much simpler examples (but then its not defining the spec). My thinking was that my real aim is to make the data useful so just making it valid or logical may not be my prime concern. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] scope, cols and colgroups
Nick Gleitzman wrote: On 30 Jun 2007, at 4:11 PM, Stuart Foulstone wrote: Surely you don't mean that ;-) On Sat, June 30, 2007 2:49 am, Chris Price wrote: My thinking was that my real aim is to make the data useful so just making it valid or logical may not be my prime concern. Yes, I did a double-take at this myself. Logical is subjective - but invalid is not useful. It's just a pain. I didn't say I would be happy for it to be invalid but poor design that validates isn't useful. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Is this a good use of dl
On the W3C website they give a first example of a definition list with terms (dt) and definitions (dd) but then give another example where dt is a speaker and dd is the speech so they concede that it is legitimate where the logic is similar. But does the following make sense and is it accessible? It does validate. h2Contacts/h2 dl dt class=firstJohn Smith/dt dd class=first dl dtAddress:/dt dd p13 My Road br /MyTown br /MyCounty AB1 2CD /p /dd dtPhone/fax:/dt ddp01234 567 890/p/dd dtMobile:/dt ddp07890 123456/p/dd dtEmail:/dt ddpa href=[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]/a/p/dd dtskype:/dt ddp my skype/p/dd /dl /dd /dl Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Is this a good use of dl
Web Standards wrote: Hey Cris, Well, I don't know man... but I think the list inside the list is just unnecessary. My reasoning for that is that everything is a description of the person but the street and city are descriptions of the address. If I have the name as a term and then address as a description, the address elements then become descriptions of a description. An alternative would have been to have Contact as a term and John Smith as a description then Address, Email etc. would be at the same level and there would be no sublist. That would be logical but not give me what I want. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Microformats was [ Is this a good use of dl ]
Diego La Monica wrote: Hi, I'm new about WSG Mailing List, but i'm thinking that this conversation is really interesting. What about address/address element? To quote W3C The ADDRESS element specifies such information as address, signature and authorship for the current document, and typically placed at the top or bottom of the document. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Using target=_blank
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I prefer opening another window IF it is to a different website that I am referring them to. That way the customer doesn't go wondering thru the other website and forget to come back to mine. Mine will always be open in the background to remind them (kind of like I'm the one they came to the dance with). That makes no sense to me. I have many sites that have links which open new windows but they all refer to pages on the same website. Without javascript they open in the same window and with javascript they open in a pop-up window. Just about everyone I deal with (except folks into web standards) expect to have pop-up windows but even then one of my clients was double clicking the links on his own website and wondering why they weren't working. Of course, he'd brought the main window back into focus. That threw me for a little while. My pop-up windows are designed to be viewed then closed so I don't expect anyone to wonder why the back button doesn't work. But if I send a visitor to another website and selfishly keep mine open in the parent window I've instantly dismissed the back button as a useful tool. I am aware of many users (who are fairly ignorant of the ins and outs of web browsers and think the Google toolbar is the address bar) who find the back button just about the most useful and intuitive tool on their browser. What you're suggesting is contrary to the spirit of the WWW. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
I would use the file name (or description) as a hyperlink. Its good to have the file size so the visitor knows what they're dealing with. I link to a php page for pdf downloads. The header of the page ensures that the file is served as a pdf not html which means that an option is presented asking the user whether they want to save or view the pdf. This way you're fixing how the file is to be served rather than letting the browser decide. The same page can be used for any format (Word, Excel etc.). The file type is put in the link as a query. I have seen many sites where the link opens to a new window but I am then presented with the same save/view option and left with an empty window and its all very messy. BTW Macs don't have a right click. Paul Minty wrote: I'd recommend displaying with a PDF icon, the text 'PDF' and a file size (in Kb or Mb). I suggest setting the target to a new window, then the user can righ click to save. If you want to go further, I'd suggest having two links labelled 'open' and 'save'. You could put in a pop-up with the option; but I think that this would break the expected behaviour more. You could also detect the connection speed and suggest a download time; but this may not give you much ROI. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
dwain wrote:
On 10/16/07, Kit Grose [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'd think (as a user) if you use the terminology 'download' for the
link, the PDF should be sent with a force-download Content-type
header if possible (so it doesn't try to view it).
how would you code this force download?
dwain
This is what I use:
$type = $_GET['type'];
$fileName = $_GET['filename'] . . . $type;
$mimeType = application/$type;
if (strpos($_SERVER['HTTP_USER_AGENT'], 'MSIE 5') or
strpos($_SERVER['HTTP_USER_AGENT'], 'Opera 7')) $mimeType =
'application/x-download';
header(content-disposition: attachment; filename = \$fileName\);
header(content-type: {$mimeType});
readfile($fileName);
where the link would be download.php?filename=mypdftype=pdf
Kind Regards
--
Chris Price
Choctaw
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.choctaw.co.uk
Tel. 01524 825 245
Mob. 0777 451 4488
Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder
while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional
~~~
-+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+-
~~~
Choctaw Media Limited is a company
registered in England and Wales
with company number 04627649
Registered Office:
Lonsdale Partners,
Priory Close,
St Mary's Gate,
Lancaster LA1 1XB
United Kingdom
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Re: [WSG] introducing a prompt to download or open a pdf
Tee G. Peng wrote: Mac has right click. It's just Steve Jobs made it so difficult with his Apple mouse (a piece of pricey junk). If you use Apple mouse, use the combination of control on keyboard + click on mouse, this will open up the right click window for options. I know its not strictly correct to say a Mac doesn't have a right click and I do use the control key (when I have to) but I have used a Mac for 15 years and never felt I was missing a button. I think its because the interface has been so well designed. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Title attribute and screen readers
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Also, sighted keyboard users will never see them either. If they use IE. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Title attribute and screen readers
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Chris Price wrote: Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Also, sighted keyboard users will never see them either. If they use IE. Or Firefox, or Safari, or Opera, ... Try tabbing to a link with a title via keyboard, and tell me if it brings up a tooltip or similar to let a sighted user read the title... P I stand corrected. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Firefox is a pushover
I build websites on a Mac and have to check my websites on another machine in order to view them in IE. I experience the usual issues with IE applying css differently than Firefox but my biggest frustrations, lately, have come from errors in my html that Firefox has happily ignored but IE has faithfully shown up. Its traditional to knock IE6 for its non-compliance but its done a good job of validating my html lately. I would like to get my Firefox to toughen up and show up errors in the html without having to submit it to a validator? The problem usually comes from missing closing tags. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Firefox is a pushover
James Leslie wrote: You could try using a plug-in such as HTML validator for Firefox that will put a little icon on the bottom right of your firefox browser to show you if a page is valid or not and it will show you errors too. It uses the HTML tidy software http://users.skynet.be/mgueury/mozilla/ Hope that helps Thanks James. That's really useful. Kind Regards -- Chris Price Choctaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~~ -+- Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd -+- ~~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: R: [WSG] Alternative to align = center?
Stuart Foulstone wrote: CSS classes are for presentation. Content is content. Centering content is presentation. Class names should not use keywords such as "center". "centre" is not a keyword and can be used. The class "centre" can then be used anywhere centering is desired. It is quite easy to remember what this class name does, but if you wish to use some more obscure name, feel free. But the class attribute (centre) is not css. css is what you apply to that class. Markup is markup. Css is css. -- Kind Regards Chris Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~ Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd ~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] Background-position in percentage
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's the best way I can describe the effect of (90%, x-axis) positioning with percentages: "to position the image such that the point 90% across the image is aligned with the point 90% across the element". That makes sense because if you set the x-axis to 100% its aligned right, 0% and its aligned left, 50% and its aligned centre. If the percentage width of the element related to the zero point of the background image then 100% would place it wholly to the right of the element. At 50% the image's left side would start at midway in the element but then the percentage would be meaningless in terms of the element itself. It would be of little practical use. This never occurred to me before you mentioned it. -- Kind Regards Chris Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 451 4488 Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder while Excellence is in the Hand of the Professional ~~ Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd ~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Lonsdale Partners, Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB United Kingdom ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: [EMAIL PROTECTED]***
Re: [WSG] How Important Is Web Accessibility?
Foskett, Mike wrote: I need to have larger text to read articles and it annoys me when the whole page zooms and goes horizontally off the page. It just goes to show that you can't rely on technology to fix all the issues. You need an accessibility mindset to cover all the angles. -- Kind Regards Chris Price chris.pr...@choctaw.co.uk www.choctaw.co.uk Tel. 01524 825 245 Mob. 0777 629 0227 Choctaw Media Fertile Ground for Websites Follow me on Twitter Catch up with me on LinkedIn ~~ Sent on behalf of Choctaw Media Ltd ~~ Choctaw Media Limited is a company registered in England and Wales with company number 04627649 Registered Office: Priory Close, St Mary's Gate, Lancaster LA1 1XB, United Kingdom. ***List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmUnsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfmHelp: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org***
Re: [WSG] :: makeready ::
I can see you are an artist. It looks like a website that's been designed by an artist. Looking at the site in Firefox my first reaction is to want to drag it to the left. Somehow being right aligned it feels uncomfortable - I wonder why the white space on the left. I was also a little puzzled why the title of the home page is 'about'. When I click the home button I go back to about with home disabled and vice versa. I can understand why you have done it but it seems a little quirky. I also seem to be doing a lot of scrolling (the page is long rather than wide) and it took me a little while to understand what was happening with the sets. I hope this is helpful. 2009/12/22 David Laakso da...@chelseacreekstudio.com I'd appreciate your comments and suggestions on this site. http://chelseacreekstudio.com/ Best, ~d *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Chris Price 0777 629 0227 follow me at http://twitter.com/hypergossip_uk and http://facebook.com/chris.t.price *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] blockquote
Blockquote is one of those tags that was badly misused for styling purposes. Now it can only be used within a block level element, namely p. I like to use the q tag because it introduces quote marks in Firefox. I can't see what value it now has. Being a block quote you would assume it is a block element but if it requires a container it just seems to be an unnecessary layer. Wouldn't it be better to simply encase a quote in a p and give a class 'blockquote'? On 4 April 2010 03:39, T. R. Valentine trvalent...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently, blockquote/blockquote cannot be used alone. It produces 'character data is not allowed here'. What does it need? Also, can the blockquote tag have a class assigned to it? TIA -- T. R. Valentine Your friends will argue with you. Your enemies don't care. 'When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes.' -- Erasmus *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** -- Chris Price 0777 629 0227 follow me at http://twitter.com/hypergossip_uk and http://facebook.com/chris.t.price *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Current thinking on fixed width/liquid design ?
On 22 August 2010 16:03, Felix Miata mrma...@earthlink.net wrote: On 2010/08/22 12:51 (GMT+0100) Chris Price composed: On 2010/08/22 07:03 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed: The web wasn't designed for graphics, and for the most part still isn't. What made the web revolutionary was the hyperlink and, to this day, it is the web's single most significant and important attribute. But what does it matter what the web was designed for - it wouldn't be what it is today without graphics and all things that make it appealing to humans (that aren't geeks). It wasn't designed for buying and selling because it is stateless and has the memory of a goldfish yet Amazon and Ebay have had a huge impact on it. Its universality is not only defined by its flexibility but also by its appeal. Not at all. CSS came along well after the web. Before css matured we were slaves to tables. My web pages have no tables where there is no tabular information, no styling, no javascript just pure html as the web intended. However I code to XHTML 1.0 which came after css. (you can do print design that is resolution independent - moreso than you can for web browsers). Observation of this assertion is first instance for me. Please elaborate. I design using Adobe Illustrator and create eps files which are vector, not bitmap images. They can, therefore, be printed at any size with zero degradation. I know that modern browsers are designed to support vector images but that's certainly not universally available. -- Chris Price 0777 629 0227 follow me at http://twitter.com/hypergossip_uk and http://facebook.com/chris.t.price *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] HTML5 - Marking up forms
On 10 November 2010 18:52, Thierry Koblentz thierry.koble...@gmail.comwrote: I don't think lists should be used for this (there might be a case for a OL in case of dependant selects, but that would be a stretch). In the case of DL, I'd say that the relationship between DTs and DDs is no better than the one created by the labels and their for attribute. fwiw, I use divs to wrap controls with their label, not because it makes things easier to style, but because of the way the form would look with no such wrapper and no styling. I'm with you there Thierry Fieldset is, by definition, a grouping within a form. The legend describes the fieldset. The label for and input id link to each other. There is no subset of fieldset like dt is to dl or li is to ul so the only logical element would be a div which is neutral. I can only imagine I would have to grapple with semantics when I need to break down a li or dd. If you lost the styling in a form built with a list would it appear to make sense when each element had a bullet beside it? Would another logical outcome not be that each fieldset would require a separate list which may comprise 1 element? -- Chris Price Choctaw *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
I followed your useit link and the article was so good I wanted to share it via Linkedin and Twitter. I ended up having several windows opening, I had little idea what was going on and often didn't know why I had arrived where I had. Since then I've found 2 floating open windows and am still not sure what I achieved. It seems the opening of new windows is often arbitrary which adds to the confusion. I have a client who has often complained that when he closes a window his browser shuts down. He assumes he has opened a new window when he hasn't. There is the contrary issue of dealing with learned behaviour derived from using websites adopting bad practices. How do we overcome this? On another note which may be completely unrelated (sorry). When using Wikipedia I have often come across a link which I hoped would elaborate on the topic at hand only to find myself in an entirely unrelated article. E.g. I may be looking at culture and find a link to 'America' and find myself in an article on geography. One advantage I can see in opening a new window (on a larger screen at least) is you can dismiss the page by closing that window rather than feeling you are being taken somewhere you don't want to go. Is this context sensitive? On 20 December 2011 02:09, Alex Mironov alexmiro...@graphicdesignservices.ato.gov.au wrote: Hi I have been doing some research on expected behaviour of clicking on links from within a website to other external websites. Much of my research suggests that the recommended practice is to keep people within the same window/tab except in some instances. This gives users maximum control as they have the choice to left click on the link and open in a new tab/window. I have included a few links: http://uxdesign.smashingmagazine.com/2008/07/01/should-links-open-in-new-windows/ http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9605.html I was wondering if anyone had any views/resources as to whether users should remain in the same window or should be taken to a new window/tab when they click on an external link? Regards Alex Mironov *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] The mailto link
Hi I've been discussing the mailto link with other designers on LinkedIn and wonder what the opinions of other standards based designers are. The original question had to do with the contact form. I suggested that many people don't like contact forms and prefer to email directly from their mail client. One response was that an email link follow through to a contact form as some users will be disconcerted when their default mail client opens unexpectedly. The point being that the savvy user will know to copy the email address and paste it in their client if they don't want to use the form. I use Gmail and tend to copy the email but I'm not copying the visible link I'm using the browser's option of copying the actual link. My argument is that I don't expect an email link to take me to another page and I instinctively feel I'm being led by the nose to do what the web designer wants not what I expect to happen. My rule of thumb is that a web page should do what's expected rather than what's expedient. Its not my job to cater for people's inadequacies, that's the browser's job. Another suggestion was that we should cater to the desires of the client. Unfortunately this could be likened to having a car designed by the salesman rather than the car manufacturer. I don't think there is a simple way to get the mailto link to open in a web based client (though there may be browser specific options). Chris.Price @Choctaw.co.uk http:\\choctaw.co.uk 0777 629 0227 Design is my native language Choctaw Media Ltd is a company registered in England and Wales (04627649) *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] The mailto link
On 3 January 2012 21:25, Hayden O'Sullivan hay...@haydensites.com.auwrote: Hi all, I believe that a mailto: link is a good idea when the link text is either an email address or something like send us an email. In other contexts, such as contact us it is a bad idea. I take it you mean that an email link should say exactly what it is, i.e. Contact: ...mailto:m...@mydomain.com'm...@mydomain.com/... rather than 'contact us' being the hyperlink. ** ** I doubt that the user will feel disconnected when their email program open *s*, *provided that they are aware that they will be sending an email*. In my experience, contact forms are a bad idea, *unless you can guarantee a non-automated response within 24 hours*. It doesn't need to be a solution/answer, but most web users that I know who are not computer savvy mistrust forms, as there are a number of sites with contact forms which apparently have no one receiving the responses. I agree ** ** Just my two cents, Hayden ** ** *From:* li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris Price *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 January 2012 6:51 AM *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Subject:* [WSG] The mailto link ** ** Hi ** ** I've been discussing the mailto link with other designers on LinkedIn and wonder what the opinions of other standards based designers are. ** ** The original question had to do with the contact form. I suggested that many people don't like contact forms and prefer to email directly from their mail client. ** ** One response was that an email link follow through to a contact form as some users will be disconcerted when their default mail client opens unexpectedly. The point being that the savvy user will know to copy the email address and paste it in their client if they don't want to use the form. I use Gmail and tend to copy the email but I'm not copying the visible link I'm using the browser's option of copying the actual link.*** * ** ** My argument is that I don't expect an email link to take me to another page and I instinctively feel I'm being led by the nose to do what the web designer wants not what I expect to happen. My rule of thumb is that a web page should do what's expected rather than what's expedient. Its not my job to cater for people's inadequacies, that's the browser's job. ** ** Another suggestion was that we should cater to the desires of the client. Unfortunately this could be likened to having a car designed by the salesman rather than the car manufacturer. I don't think there is a simple way to get the mailto link to open in a web based client (though there may be browser specific options). *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
