Re: [WSG] More on spam traps
Mike Kear I think its important to give the spammer no indication that you are onto them. If you give them any kind of feedback, they can use that to work a way through your maze.The filters i use (which are similar to yours on the client side, but I also use some tests on the server side, but the submitter sees the same result either way. Even if the submission is just discarded to the bitbucket in the sky. They have no way to know their submission has been discarded. That's awfully public-spirited of you, as it makes the spammer slower to move on to attacking another website, but it can get expensive. If some spammers think they are being successful, they will absolutely hammer your server and that could burn your data transfer allowance, or even overload your server if the tests aren't written carefully. Let them submit a few forms and then 302 redirect them to something like http://spam-ip.com/honeypot.php perhaps. Thanks, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
Hassan Schroeder has...@webtuitive.com On 12/23/11 11:12 AM, MJ Ray wrote: No - it switches on a second browser viewport, either above or below the first one. ? above or below? Not sure we're talking about the same thing. Or at least I wouldn't describe it in those terms. Ah, now, what had happened there was that I had already jumped ahead to thinking of the desktop metaphor. In-front/behind also works. [...] What happens when you read a page on your desk and turn to another page? Does the new page usually appear alongside (like a new window) or beneath it (like a new tab) - or does it usually replace the page you finished? It replaces it, unless you do something special like grab a duplicate. *OR* it's got a *different relationship* to the original window. If it's simply a *continuation* of the content, sure, replacing the original window content makes sense. But if it's e.g. a 'help' link, or a dialog box, it *does* open a new window. Help and confirmation pop-ups are very much special cases. I'd tolerate new windows, but I'd prefer web apps not to need them. What is a continuation of the content, though? I wonder if the crux of the argument here is that some of us (maybe the longer-serving webmasters?) think a link can be a continuation despite it going to another site. After all, it's the world-wide web, one giant multi-authored multi-part hypertext document collection. So, each window is like flipping through pages in a copy of this near-infinite document, following references in a non-linear order. The document doesn't suddenly replicate itself without asking. If the original content is a PDF, clicking an embedded link doesn't open inside Adobe Reader; it *opens a new window*. If I click on a link in my Twitter client, ditto. If cousin Connie emails a link to her favorite LOLCAT of the day, click, boom, new window. If people are baffled by new windows opening, there must be a lot of continual head-shaking going on out there... Or more people shift-click or use the back button than some think. PDFs aren't part of hypertext and Adobe Reader is badly-designed in several ways, so I'd ignore that. Meanwhile, neither my microblog or webmail clients open links into new windows: maybe if you prefer that behaviour, you prefer different clients to me. Dear readers, please let me know your views on whether the web is one document collection or many, how many years you've been webmastering and if/when you think links should open new windows - I really wonder if they are related somehow. Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
Hassan Schroeder has...@webtuitive.com On 12/22/11 4:06 PM, m...@phonecoop.coop wrote: Hassan Schroederhas...@webtuitive.com Regardless -- for the vocal objectors, do the same objections apply to opening a new tab? Pretty much. That's just a smaller version of the same problem. Think of it this way: when you change channel on the tv, you expect it to change channel, not switch on a second tv to the new channel. That's crazy, isn't it? Not only crazy, but the Worst Analogy EVAR :-) Rubbish - I've done far worse before. Opening a new tab does nothing like switch on a second computer. No - it switches on a second browser viewport, either above or below the first one. And that's aside from the fact that I utterly hate the Flintstone technology we call television -- single window, no integrated on-screen nav -- the dumb terminal of media delivery. Appalling that we still have crap like this in the 21st Century. Your television doesn't have on-screen navigation? We've had it in some form since Digital Video Broadcasting started over a decade ago and now it's the only option in most of the UK. There are also the usual media centres but the simple TV display is still king for a reason. Some things have multi-window displays but it still only makes occasional appearances. Why is this? I say it's because it sucks because it doesn't fit the cinema-ish use metaphor. It sucks on the desktop too. If you take the actual computer desktop metaphor, with windows as documents on a desktop, opening new windows or tabs isn't the common action in that metaphor. What happens when you read a page on your desk and turn to another page? Does the new page usually appear alongside (like a new window) or beneath it (like a new tab) - or does it usually replace the page you finished? It replaces it, unless you do something special like grab a duplicate. Regardless, I suspect that there's a significant difference in the user perception of tabs vs. windows, but I'd like to know if anyone has done any actual studies. I'm aware of work on content-box tabs by Yahoo! described on http://www.useit.com/alertbox/tabs.html but not of browser-level tabs. It would be interesting. Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
Janice Schwarz jan...@geekartist.net On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 11:42 AM, MJ Ray m...@phonecoop.coop wrote: I'm pretty sure there is no such standard preventing mobile phones from opening new windows because my aging nokia e90 can do it (since one of the early upgrades - move to the link, left shoulder button, Open in New), Firefox on Android can - but it's been a while since I tried an iPhone and I can't remember if that does, but I'd be surprised if not. For all the difficulty of fixing iPhones, there's not usually that much glaringly broken on them. If there was, they'd not be as popular as they are. So I still think it's a bug if a browser can't open a new window and wonder what phones you've being using. Or can someone say what mobile phone standard prevents new windows on links? I have witnessed this on 2 Droids 1 iPhone . This has been the behavior for both versions of the Droid, and the iPhone I used. That's interesting. I wonder if the bug on Androids only affects some manufacturers? I believe the one I tested was from HTC. But no standard preventing user control of windows, then. [...] When the OS informs you that you are exceeding the maximum number of *allowed* windows, that seems more of a limitation than a bug. If you open enough windows on a desktop or laptop, eventually it crashes too. I managed to open 112 windows on my netbook by mistake yesterday (crimes of a dying keyboard). No sign of any crashing, although it took a while to clean up! There is no unlimited number of windows that can be run on any system, and a phone has far fewer resources than a desktop or laptop. This is exactly why new windows should be under user control and not website control, so users can choose where to apply the resources! Hope that informs, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
Grant Bailey grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au If the link is to an external site then personally, I prefer the link to open in a new window automatically. Also, not all devices make it easy for users to open a link in a new window on request. Such devices are buggy and should be repaired, then. Don't degrade the web for everyone else because a few devices are buggy. I detest websites opening new windows enough that browser.link.open_newwindow is set to 1 in my firefox-based browser. Makes them open in the same window. One related thing I've noticed since a few upgrades ago is that twitter and a few other sites now say This content cannot be displayed in a frame To protect your security, the publisher of this content does not allow it to be displayed in a frame. I'm not at any security risk because it's a frame I created! Does anyone know what option will override that, at least for one page? Thanks, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Expected behaviour of links to external websites
Janice Schwarz jan...@geekartist.net On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:57 AM, MJ Ray m...@phonecoop.coop wrote: [devices that can't open new windows] Such devices are buggy and should be repaired, then. Don't degrade the web for everyone else because a few devices are buggy. To my knowledge, that's standard on mobile phones. It's not a bug. It's limit to what the technology can handle. And given the number of people using phones to surf the web now, that's an important consideration for standards. I'm pretty sure there is no such standard preventing mobile phones from opening new windows because my aging nokia e90 can do it (since one of the early upgrades - move to the link, left shoulder button, Open in New), Firefox on Android can - but it's been a while since I tried an iPhone and I can't remember if that does, but I'd be surprised if not. For all the difficulty of fixing iPhones, there's not usually that much glaringly broken on them. If there was, they'd not be as popular as they are. So I still think it's a bug if a browser can't open a new window and wonder what phones you've being using. Or can someone say what mobile phone standard prevents new windows on links? Hope that informs, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Farewell (was : Out of Office)
Rob Crowther robe...@boogdesign.com On 16/12/2011 10:42, Rick Faircloth wrote: Why not create a rule to filter out messages with “out of office” But if that worked, why not just do that in the list software itself instead of having several hundred people install identical rules on individual mail clients? Especially given that List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm tells everyone to Turn off 'read' and 'delivery' receipts and vacation messages. These often bounce back to the list and cause many unwanted posts (offenders will be unsubscribed) So how about making good on that threat, please, list admins? Merry Christmas! ;-) -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] PHP validation problem
Bob Schwartz b...@fotografics.it I have a PHP file that fails validation. The W3C validator claims that there are three divs missing their closing tag, or that perhaps there is something in the divs that the validator doesn't like. I saved the php you included to a file, validated it by upload on http://validator.w3.org/ and it passed as HTML 4.01 Strict. How did it fail for you? Did the links to more information on the errors not help? Confused, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] domain help
ryan r...@rdb-uk.com a new customer was having problems with their domain not displaying with their current host www.pipetechnorthwest.com all I can find out is that its linked to www.dallamore.com What host is their current host? I don't know what this has to do with webstandardsgroup, so maybe we should take this off-list? I see you have the whois. Here's the DNS and web info: Trying www.pipetechnorthwest.com www.pipetechnorthwest.com. 14400 IN CNAME pipetechnorthwest.com. pipetechnorthwest.com. 14400 IN A 69.175.35.2 2.35.175.69.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer rsx34.justhost.com. Location: http://www.pipetechnorthwest.com/cgi-sys/suspendedpage.cgi Account Suspended This Account Has Been Suspended Looks like their account with justhost or whoever resells that host there has been suspended? Hope that informs, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
