RE: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
I can tell you why I am not WOWed by it.. It is not clean, and tight, and that is what pleases my eye. For me, it looks very amateur. However, any person that takes a chance and dives in doing css gets kudos from me, but not all online artistry even done in css is something that commends those same kudos. JMHO Lori Leach Zenful Creations http://www.zenfulcreations.com/ Could the people who think it is so non-wow, please explain ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Your home page is very attractive. A bit of humble pie - I validated your home page using your referral button 'xhtml' and got 15 errors. Your CSS shows one related error: Please, validate your XML document first! Line 164 Column 25 The element type img must be terminated by the matching end-tag /img>. When 'experts' throw stones.. Will Jensen Moscow, Russia [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Dec 24, 2004, at 4:15 AM, Lori Leach wrote: I can tell you why I am not WOWed by it.. It is not clean, and tight, and that is what pleases my eye. For me, it looks very amateur. However, any person that takes a chance and dives in doing css gets kudos from me, but not all online artistry even done in css is something that commends those same kudos. JMHO Lori Leach Zenful Creations http://www.zenfulcreations.com/ Could the people who think it is so non-wow, please explain ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
A recent survey in my imagination revealed that: 99% of people don't go wow because, not having the experience of attempting to build anything remotely like it, they don't see how clever it is. Half the rest go wow because, having experience, they see it is clever, but don't quite understand the technique, and are thus impressed. (That was me). The other 0.5% (including you; congratulations!) see it is clever, and can surmise the technique, and thus give it credit as cutting-edge, but not to the extent of a wow. And now I understand it, even how the light was done. Next? At 06:02 PM 18/12/2004, Andrew Krespanis wrote: It is that sense of seeing art at the cutting-edge of science that makes us go wow. Good point John, I can't argue with that :) The backgrounds are great, the css is cutting edge. That doesn't make it a great design though. Could the people who think it is so non-wow, please explain to us in a few simple words, how it is done? Then I am going to do something similar by afternoon-tea time I haven't looked at the css, but if I was trying to achieve this it would be setup something like: diver : top layer (z-index), fixed positioning, 24-bit png. gradient: second layer, attached to top, 24-bit png. light: bottom layer, fixed positioning, 24-bit png. Everything else would be animated gifs on :hover states, two reasons the effect doesn't work in IE. The ocen floor is either a photo or render, treasure chest added after the fact. Crab is animated gif, drawn over the sand but cut back to binary transparency. That said, the conception of such a technique is usually more work than the application, and this technique is pretty damn slick. What I should have said is that while the 'diver trick' is cool, I don't rate it amongst my favourite zen entries. Andrew. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Well put. For the record, my I'm not worthy comment was merely my manner of speech and should not, of course, be taken literally. Everybody was wowing -- I chose to say something different. Yes, I was (and am) very impressed. ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter on 12/18/2004 11:34 AM J4Web said the following: A recent survey in my imagination revealed that: 99% of people don't go wow because, not having the experience of attempting to build anything remotely like it, they don't see how clever it is. Half the rest go wow because, having experience, they see it is clever, but don't quite understand the technique, and are thus impressed. (That was me). The other 0.5% (including you; congratulations!) see it is clever, and can surmise the technique, and thus give it credit as cutting-edge, but not to the extent of a wow. And now I understand it, even how the light was done. Next? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
-Original Message- From: Andrew Krespanis I know I'm way out on a limb with this one, but the ocean thing really doesn't do anything for me... The diver/flashlight effect is cool (even though it looks a bit nasty as it goes over the gradient) and the rendered ocean floor has really nice lighting, but besides that... Comments like I'm not worthy are somewhat surprising; but hey, to each their own :) Andrew. I like it. I think it's a good example of what CSS is capable of (in this case; heavy graphics and some neat PNG trickery). Which is exactly what the Garden is supposed to be about. OT: Does anyone else think the Garden needs some sort of rating system or better categorisation? When there was only ~30 it was fine. But now there's ~520. A lot will never get seen, and that probably includes some really good examples that should be. I suppose one could design a separate site with frames and JS. Then people could rate each on aesthetics, usability, originality, etc. Cheers, Justin. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
OT: Does anyone else think the Garden needs some sort of rating system or better categorisation? When there was only ~30 it was fine. But now there's ~520. A lot will never get seen, and that probably includes some really good examples that should be. [also OT] What the garden really needs is to have each entry identified in the title tag or similar. Unless the artist has included the title in one of the images, you can't easily tell what you're looking at. This has bugged me since Dave started this project -- now it's getting way out of hand. ( I can't even find my favourite entry anymore!) Andrew. http://leftjustified.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
OMG...I'm not worthy. ~john _ Dr. Zeus Web Development http://www.DrZeus.net content without clutter on 12/17/2004 5:44 AM Leslie Riggs said the following: Now THIS is what makes designing with CSS fun!! I just love this. Leslie Riggs http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
In my Firefox .9.3, both sites only show text and some colored backgrounds. I had to view them in IE to see the wow factors. Christie Mason -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Laakso Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 1:51 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:36:18 +1100, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! Russ Thanks Russ, but as for myself, I believe I like the unpretentious http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://lyuanqing.freeprohost.com/verdure/css.css by his young man: Name: Lim Yuan Qing ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:27:16 -0600, Christie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my Firefox .9.3, both sites only show text and some colored backgrounds. I had to view them in IE to see the wow factors. Christie Mason I am absoultely sure you did not see real wow factors with IE - for the very simple reason - lack of PNG opacity support in IE. I guess many did not use correct url: http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenocean.css URL must end with zenocean.css. Regards, Rimantas ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
The diver doesn't show up in my version of IE6. I'm thinking that's by design. Rimantas Liubertas has created a disturbance in the Force. I felt its presence on 12/17/2004 8:44 AM. Its substance was as follows: On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:27:16 -0600, Christie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my Firefox .9.3, both sites only show text and some colored backgrounds. I had to view them in IE to see the wow factors. Christie Mason I am absoultely sure you did not see real wow factors with IE - for the very simple reason - lack of PNG opacity support in IE. I guess many did not use correct url: http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenocean.css URL must end with zenocean.css. Regards, Rimantas ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Yes, I did use the correct URL, you may want to use something like Tiny URL for future links. I may have missed some opacity in IE but I didn't really feel like I missed anything, the page was still very wow. Unfortunately, I'm not fond of wow. Christie Mason -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rimantas Liubertas Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 7:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 07:27:16 -0600, Christie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my Firefox .9.3, both sites only show text and some colored backgrounds. I had to view them in IE to see the wow factors. Christie Mason I am absoultely sure you did not see real wow factors with IE - for the very simple reason - lack of PNG opacity support in IE. I guess many did not use correct url: http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css URL must end with zenocean.css. Regards, Rimantas ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
I'm getting weird things in Safari 1.2.3 OS X.3.5. Safari either shows no flashlight turning on *or* the bg to the diver is a tall column, almost the reverse of the ocean gradient, and the flashlight works. FF 1.0 Mac works great. Anyone else?? Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist mlinc.com russ - maxdesign wrote: http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:41:12 -0600, Christie Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Yes, I did use the correct URL, you may want to use something like Tiny URL for future links. URL123 (http://url123.com) is really handy for posting long URLs in email. It even allows you to save links you've shared, edit them, etc. It's a great free service. Hope that helps. Francesco ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
It's not beautiful if you zoom your text. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Everything has a weakness -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Vaska.WSG Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 11:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry It's not beautiful if you zoom your text. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Todd Baker wrote: hang on a sec.. Ill just pick my jaw up of the ground Thats amazing. those bubbles own :) seriously, awesome job. But, its not balanced at all. Until i got to the bottom i was like ok, what's the big deal?. Perhaps thats a feat in and of itself... http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
That so rocks. Too bad it won't get listed on there, because it causes IE problems. On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:01:30 -0500, Brian Cummiskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Todd Baker wrote: hang on a sec.. Ill just pick my jaw up of the ground Thats amazing. those bubbles own :) seriously, awesome job. But, its not balanced at all. Until i got to the bottom i was like ok, what's the big deal?. Perhaps thats a feat in and of itself... http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Mathias Bynens aka MaThIbUs http://mathibus.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
I know I'm way out on a limb with this one, but the ocean thing really doesn't do anything for me... The diver/flashlight effect is cool (even though it looks a bit nasty as it goes over the gradient) and the rendered ocean floor has really nice lighting, but besides that... Comments like I'm not worthy are somewhat surprising; but hey, to each their own :) Andrew. --- http://leftjustified.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
I know I'm way out on a limb with this one, but the ocean thing really doesn't do anything for me... The diver/flashlight effect is cool (even though it looks a bit nasty as it goes over the gradient) and the rendered ocean floor has really nice lighting, but besides that... I have to agree with your post, Andrew. This is quite interesting toy for playing, but the overall look'n'feel really doesn't seem wow to me... -- Jan Brasna :: alphanumeric.cz | webcore.cz | designlab.cz | janbrasna.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Some of us are pretty impressed and even mystified at the guy's technical creativity at utilising standards-based techniques to achieve the effects of the diver and the light and the bubbles and the crab. It is that sense of seeing art at the cutting-edge of science that makes us go wow. Sure, we've all seem much more impressive deep diver ocean scenes, but using only HTML and CSS? Could the people who think it is so non-wow, please explain to us in a few simple words, how it is done? Then I am going to do something similar by afternoon-tea time John At 11:57 AM 18/12/2004, JohnyB wrote: I know I'm way out on a limb with this one, but the ocean thing really doesn't do anything for me... The diver/flashlight effect is cool (even though it looks a bit nasty as it goes over the gradient) and the rendered ocean floor has really nice lighting, but besides that... I have to agree with your post, Andrew. This is quite interesting toy for playing, but the overall look'n'feel really doesn't seem wow to me... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:58:11 +1100, J4Web [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: When I first saw it, I thought ooh this is a nice color scheme and use of animated gifs and that was about it. It is quite creative. Francesco Sanfilippo, Developer / Designer --- Blackcoil Productions - http://blackcoil.com URL123 Link Service - http://url123.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
It is that sense of seeing art at the cutting-edge of science that makes us go wow. Good point John, I can't argue with that :) The backgrounds are great, the css is cutting edge. That doesn't make it a great design though. Could the people who think it is so non-wow, please explain to us in a few simple words, how it is done? Then I am going to do something similar by afternoon-tea time I haven't looked at the css, but if I was trying to achieve this it would be setup something like: diver : top layer (z-index), fixed positioning, 24-bit png. gradient: second layer, attached to top, 24-bit png. light: bottom layer, fixed positioning, 24-bit png. Everything else would be animated gifs on :hover states, two reasons the effect doesn't work in IE. The ocen floor is either a photo or render, treasure chest added after the fact. Crab is animated gif, drawn over the sand but cut back to binary transparency. That said, the conception of such a technique is usually more work than the application, and this technique is pretty damn slick. What I should have said is that while the 'diver trick' is cool, I don't rate it amongst my favourite zen entries. Andrew. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Hi all Remember to put the ean.css on the end! I was marvelling at a fantastic page of unstyled content (which shows how table free code is useful when styles are turned off!) then saw the URL was incomplete... Cheers James On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:36:18 +1100, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
hang on a sec.. Ill just pick my jaw up of the ground Thats amazing. On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:36:18 +1100, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Russ, I see it beautifully in Safari, but in Firefox only a blue background and tiny Times Roman text. What the...? -Hugh Todd http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/ cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Worked a treat in Friefox Win. Really lovely. On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:28:30 +1100, Hugh Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russ, I see it beautifully in Safari, but in Firefox only a blue background and tiny Times Roman text. What the...? -Hugh Todd http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/ cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Website Designer/Developer www.nataliebuxton.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Works fine in my copy of Firefox. Very nice crab. Gary On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 16:28:30 +1100, Hugh Todd [EMAIL PROTECTED] I I see it beautifully in Safari, but in Firefox only a blue background and tiny Times Roman text. What the...? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
Now THIS is what makes designing with CSS fun!! I just love this. Leslie Riggs http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
OK, Maybe I shouldn't have installed the final version of Firefox without deleting earlier versions and/or support files. You've prompted me to delete Firefox's Application Support. Revisiting the site... I see the crab! I see it all! And the blue background is more seamless than in the Colorsync-affected Safari. Now, why no crab in Safari? Sorry, getting OT. Just posted in case the Firefox fix is helpful for anyone else. -Hugh On 17/12/2004, at 4:36 PM, Gary Menzel wrote: Works fine in my copy of Firefox. Very nice crab. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Another amazing css zen garden entry
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 15:36:18 +1100, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://www.css-praxis.de/cssocean/zenoc ean.css Make sure you look in a good browser and scroll down! Russ Thanks Russ, but as for myself, I believe I like the unpretentious http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=http://lyuanqing.freeprohost.com/verdure/css.css by his young man: Name: Lim Yuan Qing Age: 14 DOB: 25th January 1990 Location: Singapore Im currently a student at Temasek Secondary, class 2E2, and an active member of the Chess Club. Just under 2 years back, I had graduated from Ngee Ann Primary, class 6/1. Best, David -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
