Re: [WSG] Re: University textbook or other resources?
Alan Trick wrote:
> As far as server side languages like PHP, JSP, and the other
> abominations - I think that probably belongs in another course.
Being far removed from higher education, I'd kind of skipped this
thread but that caught my eye; the originating comment:
>>For example, Movable Type, Wordpress and other blog systems are all open
>>source CMS tools. A web designer is going to need to think about how to
>>create templates based on the functionality of these CMS systems. The
>>ones I mentioned are php/mySql, but there are other that are Java, ASP
>>and JSP as well.
I think it would help non-programmers to evaluate CMS/framework
software if they were at least aware of the 'MVC' design pattern
(and the concept of Design Patterns in general, for that matter).
The Model-View-Controller pattern represents a separation of data,
presentation, and business logic in the overall system, as current
(X)HTML/CSS is intended to separate data and presentation at the
View level.
Finding a template system with code interwoven through the markup,
or worse yet *generating* markup (when you see something like e.g.
"print 'gack!';"), should tip the developer that it
will be extremely painful to make substantial changes.
OTOH, a template system like e.g. '${exclamation}'
will be much more flexible. Some languages lend themselves to the
latter approach more than others, but that's OT for this forum. :-)
--
Hassan Schroeder - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webtuitive Design === (+1) 408-938-0567 === http://webtuitive.com
dream. code.
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Re: [WSG] Re: University textbook or other resources?
>From personal experience I'll add to what Alan said. I took Web Design & Programming 1 here at Cornell. It was very easy for me since I know the stuff already but I saw what other students were dealing with. Such as: - The class was full of people who had no experience with computer programming, and the professors have this crazy idea of teaching PHP at level 1. I mean, associative arrays and form handling. Stuff I don't think is so relevant to level 1. Anyway, a lot of students still don't understand the stuff and I really think the time could have been used to cover more stuff related to CSS or semantics. - Teaching usability was good. The professors made us think of potential users and create entire personas for them, and they made us do user tests for our projects. I think everyone in the class got a good grasp of how to make websites usable. Besides, one of the books we read was "Don't Make Me Think" by Steve Krug. - We did not cover Javascript at all. This was a good thing IMO since most students would have probably ended up using it obtrusively in their websites. - We didn't touch Flash either. Mostly had to do with problems with teaching a proprietary product. - It was very important that the professors declare tables for layout wrong from the beginning. There were definitely a lot of students that went into the course thinking this sort of thing is okay. One even decided to single me out for being such a table-for-layout hater. However, that's a story for another day. Fight the good fight. I definitely think the class should have covered more CSS, and more accessibility. Otherwise it was a good class. Next semester I'll be taking level 2, which is PHP & MySQL. Should be more fun. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
Re: [WSG] Re: University textbook or other resources?
Since your at a univeristy you might as well take the time to go over the some of the more theoretical stuff. This is particlularly a good ida if your talking to CS students who are more interested in that kind of thing. Probably one of most important things is Semantics. Paricularly the separation of style and content, although semantics covers a lot more too. Of course don't over do it (join the www-html list on w3.org for examples :P) but I htink it will give the students a firm foundation for a lot of the whys behind how things are done. As far as server side languages like PHP, JSP, and the other abominations - I think that probably belongs in another course. Mainly because there is a lot of stuff that needs to be covered here (particularly security issues). If the students haven't done at least some programming you might find that either 1) it ends up becoming a second Introduction to Programming 101 or 2) the students won't have a clue as to what they're doing and will get more confused because there is an extra layer they don't understand. Alan Trick On Sat, 2005-11-26 at 00:06 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > There are two magazines out of the UK that sometimes offer tutorials > that you can use in the classrom. One is called WebDesigner and the > other is called Practical Web Projects > http://www.paragon.co.uk/wd/index.htm > http://www.paragon.co.uk/pwp/index.htm > > If you want to teach web design from a standards perspective, there are > three books listed in the right hand column of my blog at > http://www.netmix.com/wordpress, along with other books that I singled > out from Amazon that might be useful to you. One is Jeffrey Zeldman's > "Designing with Web Standards." > > I also recommend starting to look into Open Source products, like Typo3, > Mambo and other Open Source Content Management systems. > > Web designers need to learn how to design around open source module > macros. > > For example, Movable Type, Wordpress and other blog systems are all open > source CMS tools. A web designer is going to need to think about how to > create templates based on the functionality of these CMS systems. The > ones I mentioned are php/mySql, but there are other that are Java, ASP > and JSP as well. > > A good resource to get open source CMS tools is opensourcecms.com. > > I have yet to find a book that teaches you how to actually think about > design, fontography and layout, then bring you into HTML production, > then bring you along into database integration. Since all these methods > are disparate from each other, but depend on each other, most books > usually focus on how to's rather than to think creatively. > > Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but believe me, I've been looking. > > In the local Barnes & Noble, there have been many books published that > you can find in the Graphic Design section, which showcase high end web > design. That may also be a place to look as well. > > Tony Z. > > > > > Laura Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 11/26/2005, 01:04:35 AM: > > > I've been asked if there are useful university-focused > > > textbooks or other resources suitable for teaching > > > accessible web design. > > > > As Lloyd and Matthew mentioned Joe Clark's "Building Accessible > > Websites", New Riders Publishing, 2002 is well worth considering. > > > > I have been using it for the web accessibility classes that I teach. > > The Clark book does not assume the reader understands the basics of web > > accessibility. I specifically chose it because of that and because it > > goes beyond simply repeating the "party line" from the World Wide Web > > Consortium (W3C) or Section 508. That is one of the purposes of the > > classes - to not just read the specifications, but actively engage > > them. Challenge, dissect, understand, and learn what makes the most > > sense. Also Joe put the whole book online[1] so if students don't want > > to purchase it for the class they don't have too. However, the soft > > cover version of the online book has screen shots and images. The > > online version does not. > > > > The Web Design Reference [2] is a huge online mega-reference (over > > 3,000 links) of information and articles about web design and > > development that you might find useful. It has a full section on books > > [3] as well as online resources (accessibility, CSS, usability, web > > standards, and many related topics are covered). > > > > You might also find the Web Design Update Newsletter [4] helpful. It is > > a plain text email digest that typically goes out once a week as an > > adjunct to the site. > > > > All the Best, > > Laura > > > > [1] http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/ > > [2] http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdesign/ > > [3] http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/books#access > > [4] http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdevlist > > > > ___ > > Laura L. Carlson > > Information Technology Systems and Services > > Univers
Re: [WSG] Re: University textbook or other resources?
"Laura Carlson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've been asked if there are useful university-focused textbooks or other resources suitable for teaching accessible web design. Hi Laura, if you didn't know already, these are superb live resources in addition to books: http://www.accessify.com/ http://www.accessifyforum.com http://www.gawds.org/ Books don't debate best practice like more dynamic sources so I'd be careful how they were used by students. That's not to say they aren't extremely useful though. Perhaps the WCAG would be the place to start along with case studies to demonstrate practical technique - contrary to the myth its pretty easy to read (and even easier with a tutor explaining as you go) http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/. There's also a working draft of the WCAG 2.0 too: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/. Supplementing that with judicious samples from the sites listed to flesh out the practice of accessible design based around the WCAG etc would top it off nicely. The RNIB has good resources on web practice: http://www.rnib.org/xpedio/groups/public/documents/code/public_rnib003460.hcsp also a useful article on UK law: http://www.thepickards.co.uk/Articles/The_DDA_and_IT.cfm Jon Tan www.gr0w.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Re: University textbook or other resources?
I've been asked if there are useful university-focused textbooks or other resources suitable for teaching accessible web design. As Lloyd and Matthew mentioned Joe Clark's "Building Accessible Websites", New Riders Publishing, 2002 is well worth considering. I have been using it for the web accessibility classes that I teach. The Clark book does not assume the reader understands the basics of web accessibility. I specifically chose it because of that and because it goes beyond simply repeating the "party line" from the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) or Section 508. That is one of the purposes of the classes - to not just read the specifications, but actively engage them. Challenge, dissect, understand, and learn what makes the most sense. Also Joe put the whole book online[1] so if students don't want to purchase it for the class they don't have too. However, the soft cover version of the online book has screen shots and images. The online version does not. The Web Design Reference [2] is a huge online mega-reference (over 3,000 links) of information and articles about web design and development that you might find useful. It has a full section on books [3] as well as online resources (accessibility, CSS, usability, web standards, and many related topics are covered). You might also find the Web Design Update Newsletter [4] helpful. It is a plain text email digest that typically goes out once a week as an adjunct to the site. All the Best, Laura [1] http://joeclark.org/book/sashay/serialization/ [2] http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdesign/ [3] http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/books#access [4] http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdevlist ___ Laura L. Carlson Information Technology Systems and Services University of Minnesota Duluth Duluth, MN 55812-3009 http://www.d.umn.edu/goto/webdesign/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list & getting help **
[WSG] Re: University textbook or other resources?
Title: Re: University textbook or other resources? Hi everyone, New member, first post, although you’ll find I mostly lurk. The two books by Knowbility partners aren’t exactly university focused textbooks, but are very good for training in accessibility. http://www.knowbility.org/air-interactive/?content=resources Virginia ivanovitch wrote: Folks I've been asked if there are useful university-focused textbooks or other resources suitable for teaching accessible web design. So far 'Effective website development' (Darlington) and 'Principles of web site design' (Skalr) have been proposed as possible options. Thoughts? -- Virginia DeBolt Author: Integrated HTML and CSS: A Smarter, Faster Way to Learn Blog: Web Teacher – Resources for Teaching Web Design: Book Reviews http://www.webteacher.ws --
