Re: [WSG] Mobile sites
I think it's worth noting that there is a lot of commonality between accessibility and mobile optimisation. When the W3C Mobile Web Best Practices Group began its work (way back in June 2005 - I'm feeling old) our starting point was WCAG. They're not the same, of course, but the ways of thinking do share a lot. Designing accessible sites means making very few, if any, assumptions that given features will be available to all your users and therefore coding to offer various fallbacks/alternatives. On mobile, you're targeting devices that *may* be restricted in their capabilities. Others have advocated looking at logs to see which devices your users are accessing the site with. That's always an important data point of course, but beware: if the only mobile devices accessing your site are top end smartphones that could be telling you that those are the only mobile devices that *can* use your site, not that others (the majority) are not interested in what you have to offer. I agree the RWD gets you a long way - we advocate and teach it on the W3C Mobile Web course that Frances de Waal and I run - but it only answers style adaptation. A properly mobile-friendly site is likely to offer (slightly) different content too. At a simple level this means different sized images but it's deeper than that. Mobile users will often have different priorities than those browsing on a desktop and that can affect what you present as well as how you present it. My mantra is content adaptation should be done server side, style adaptation is done client side. Do it right and you almost certainly do not need a separate mobile site. More ramblings at http://philarcher.org/diary/2011/mobilecontentandstyle/ HTH Phil. -- Phil Archer W3C eGovernment http://www.w3.org/egov/ http://philarcher.org @philarcher1 On 16/05/2012 03:43, grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au wrote: Hello, I was wondering whether having a dedicated mobile site represents an improvement with regard to accessibility and standards, or whether it is acceptable to have a single site that is adaptable to different screen widths (e.g. by means of CSS media queries). Of course, setting up a separate mobile site requires additional work and therefore expense. I would be grateful for comments. Thank you and regards, Grant Bailey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Mobile sites
Hi Grant I think Sheldon and Andrew both are right. You have to check your user and content of the site. Here is the best example of the site which look nicely in different devices. http://www.kingshillcars.com/ You have to study your site material how you want to show the site. Regards Birendra From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 8:13 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Mobile sites Hello, I was wondering whether having a dedicated mobile site represents an improvement with regard to accessibility and standards, or whether it is acceptable to have a single site that is adaptable to different screen widths (e.g. by means of CSS media queries). Of course, setting up a separate mobile site requires additional work and therefore expense. I would be grateful for comments. Thank you and regards, Grant Bailey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
Re: [WSG] Mobile sites
yep, plenty of division ;-) ...but while Sheldon is correct that responsive design can cater quite well to the most popular mobile devices, there are still a heap out there that don't recognise media queries or any of the other building blocks of responsive design. In some parts of the world these more basic handests dominate internet traffic. If you're targeting the affluent, western middle class, then you'll probably do alright, but there are plenty of countries where more basic handsets still reign. Your specific question, however, was about Accessibility and Standards. While Standards can be perfectly catered for by a responsive design, I'm not so sure about Accessibility. Certainly, the technical aspects of Accessibility can, but there's a wooly area of Accessibility regarding perceivability that sites can run foul of if the text and interactions aren't built specifically for mobile. The most common problem is simply too much text, but there are also issues around context and mobility that can be better catered for by a specifically designed mobile site. Probably the best example of this is a bank or an airline - it's well worth creating a specific site in their case, because a 'mobile' user quite likely has different needs and priorities to the desktop user. It's been said before, but it's more relevant than ever: Know your audience. It's definitely not for everyone, but if your audience is large, and your content complex, I think it's worth taking a tiered approach - a small, dedicated mobile site for the top handful of suitable interactions; responsive design for the vast majority of adaptable content; alternative fallback versions for 'difficult' content. In fact, there's a tier above the dedicated site - the stand alone app - but that's another argument altogether :-) And while I've been rabbiting on writing this email Enid has come back and made a similar point far more economically than I. -- Andrew Harris and...@woowoowoo.com http://www.woowoowoo.com ~~~ <*>< ~~~ On 16 May 2012 13:12, Doc2626 wrote: > Grant, I think it's likely that you'll find a lot of division on this > question. But I'll go ahead and offer my own opinion. > > I think it's an unnecessary expense and expenditure of energy to build a > redundant site simply to suit mobile devices. There is a very workable > solution using HTML5+CSS3, where a single site design can display quite > satisfactorily on anything down to a 320px iPhone. Accessibility and > usability needn't suffer in the process. If properly implemented, the user > experience can maintain quality across all platforms. > > Additionally, if you're not enthusiastic about HTML5+CSS3, you can > accomplish the same thing using XHTML+RDFa. In fact, since RDFa presently > enjoys a bit more adoption than HTML5, the SEO benefits can be even greater. > > If you're interested, I recently posted a very brief explanation of the > HTML5+CSS3 technique and will soon be posting a similar item on the RDFa > option. > > Sheldon Campbell > > From: grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au > Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:43 PM > To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org > Subject: [WSG] Mobile sites > > Hello, > > I was wondering whether having a dedicated mobile site represents an > improvement with regard to accessibility and standards, or whether it is > acceptable to have a single site that is adaptable to different screen > widths (e.g. by means of CSS media queries). Of course, setting up a > separate mobile site requires additional work and therefore expense. > > I would be grateful for comments. > > Thank you and regards, > > Grant Bailey > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** > > *** > List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm > Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm > Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org > *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
RE: [WSG] Mobile sites [SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
UNOFFICIAL Hi Grant, My thoughts on this are (assuming you're rebuilding an existing site): Check your site statistics/analytics - look at the range of devices accessing the site and what they're looking at - are there some pieces of content which aren't being accessed from handheld devices? If you're seeing a consistent spread of mobile access then, unless your site is going to chew up their bandwidth, you should be fine with a responsive design. If you're seeing that only a small subset of your site is getting mobile hits then you could look at streamlining this into a specific mobile site with its own navigation. Enid Bulman MIT | Web Project Officer Election & External Communication Section | Education & Communications Branch Australian Electoral Commission T: (02) 6271 4486 | M: 0411 244 521 | F: (02) 6271 4558 [cid:image001.gif@01CD3366.90E54E00]<http://emailfooter.aec.gov.au/email/> [cid:image002.gif@01CD3366.90E54E00]<http://emailfooter.aec.gov.au/email-promo/> UNOFFICIAL From: li...@webstandardsgroup.org [mailto:li...@webstandardsgroup.org] On Behalf Of grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au Sent: Wednesday, 16 May 2012 12:43 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Mobile sites Hello, I was wondering whether having a dedicated mobile site represents an improvement with regard to accessibility and standards, or whether it is acceptable to have a single site that is adaptable to different screen widths (e.g. by means of CSS media queries). Of course, setting up a separate mobile site requires additional work and therefore expense. I would be grateful for comments. Thank you and regards, Grant Bailey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org<mailto:memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org> *** DISCLAIMER: If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately by return email and delete all copies. If this email or any attachments have been sent to you in error, that error does not constitute waiver of any confidentiality, privilege or copyright in respect of information in the email or attachments. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** <><>
Re: [WSG] Mobile sites
Grant, I think it's likely that you'll find a lot of division on this question. But I'll go ahead and offer my own opinion. I think it's an unnecessary expense and expenditure of energy to build a redundant site simply to suit mobile devices. There is a very workable solution using HTML5+CSS3, where a single site design can display quite satisfactorily on anything down to a 320px iPhone. Accessibility and usability needn't suffer in the process. If properly implemented, the user experience can maintain quality across all platforms. Additionally, if you're not enthusiastic about HTML5+CSS3, you can accomplish the same thing using XHTML+RDFa. In fact, since RDFa presently enjoys a bit more adoption than HTML5, the SEO benefits can be even greater. If you're interested, I recently posted a very brief explanation of the HTML5+CSS3 technique and will soon be posting a similar item on the RDFa option. Sheldon Campbell From: grant_malcolm_bai...@westnet.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 7:43 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Mobile sites Hello, I was wondering whether having a dedicated mobile site represents an improvement with regard to accessibility and standards, or whether it is acceptable to have a single site that is adaptable to different screen widths (e.g. by means of CSS media queries). Of course, setting up a separate mobile site requires additional work and therefore expense. I would be grateful for comments. Thank you and regards, Grant Bailey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
[WSG] Mobile sites
Hello, I was wondering whether having a dedicated mobile site represents an improvement with regard to accessibility and standards, or whether it is acceptable to have a single site that is adaptable to different screen widths (e.g. by means of CSS media queries). Of course, setting up a separate mobile site requires additional work and therefore expense. I would be grateful for comments. Thank you and regards, Grant Bailey *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: memberh...@webstandardsgroup.org ***
