Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Is it an okay plan to take an existing English website programmed in ColdFusion and basically duplicate it across a few other languages (French, German, Italian, Spanish) either in their own directories like /english and /espanol, or at localized domains like .com, .com.es, etc... ? What workflow issues have people run into going with this method? Do you use the ip-to-country database to do the auto redirects to localized URLs? Also I noticed previously that someone mentioned it was important to save word files in Unicode format at the translation end. Why is this important if I can open any word file on my end and save it as Unicode - besides we'd just be copying and pasting text anyway, or am I missing some large concept? Thanks for any tips, Ketan On Oct 21, 2004, at 9:16 AM, Jad Madi wrote: why not to stick with UTF-8 and UTF-16 for Chinese? On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:47:32 +1000, Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats interesting, personally I like to be specific about the charset eg: Chinese Traditional Taiwan, Hong Kong meta http-equiv=Content-type content=text/html; charset=big5 / Chinese Simplified China mainland, Singapore and Malaysia meta http-equiv=Content-type content=text/html; charset=gb2312 / Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Francesco wrote: The Absolute Minimum Every Software Developer Absolutely, Positively Must Know About Unicode and Character Sets (No Excuses!) - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html I read this entire article, then changed the first meta tag on a test page to be: meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=UTF-8 / then I went to the Chinese translation of Joel's page and cut and pasted some Chinese characters into my html page, saved it, and loaded it in IE expecting to see Chinese side by side to my English text. Nope. Still gibberish. What did I do wrong? Francesco Sanfilippo, Internet Developer --- Blackcoil Productions - http://blackcoil.com URL123 Link Service - http://url123.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- http://www.W3planet.info/ http://www.EasyHTTP.com/jad/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:30:11 -0500, Ketan Vakil [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is it an okay plan to take an existing English website programmed in ColdFusion and basically duplicate it across a few other languages (French, German, Italian, Spanish) either in their own directories like /english and /espanol, or at localized domains like .com, .com.es, etc... ? What workflow issues have people run into going with this method? Updates of website will be difficult. Every change will need many times more work to update and synchronize all versions. When you forget to update one language it may stop working and you won't notice that, unless you do x times more testing. You should think about keeping only text strings in an external file and having one language-independent version of pages. I can't help with CF, but in PHP it is usually done by including a file that defines associative array (key=value pairs being some_id=translated string) Do you use the ip-to-country database to do the auto redirects to localized URLs? That won't work, people may use proxies, etc. Just parse Accept-Language header (but really parse it; don't assume it to start with suitable language code). It is good to have domains or subdomains with translated versions. If you have host-based localized versions you don't need to change paths on your pages plus search engines will index all languages (they won't if you use accept-language detection alone). -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
why not to stick with UTF-8 and UTF-16 for Chinese? On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:47:32 +1000, Neerav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thats interesting, personally I like to be specific about the charset eg: Chinese Traditional Taiwan, Hong Kong meta http-equiv=Content-type content=text/html; charset=big5 / Chinese Simplified China mainland, Singapore and Malaysia meta http-equiv=Content-type content=text/html; charset=gb2312 / Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Francesco wrote: The Absolute Minimum Every Software Developer Absolutely, Positively Must Know About Unicode and Character Sets (No Excuses!) - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html I read this entire article, then changed the first meta tag on a test page to be: meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=UTF-8 / then I went to the Chinese translation of Joel's page and cut and pasted some Chinese characters into my html page, saved it, and loaded it in IE expecting to see Chinese side by side to my English text. Nope. Still gibberish. What did I do wrong? Francesco Sanfilippo, Internet Developer --- Blackcoil Productions - http://blackcoil.com URL123 Link Service - http://url123.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- http://www.W3planet.info/ http://www.EasyHTTP.com/jad/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Yes - that *does* help! I was wondering how I was going to copy and paste from Word - how that was going to work. But I'm assuming if the Word doc is supplied in Unicode then that solves the problem. Cheers! ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Cheshire Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 1:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and this is my first post. I'd like to re-iterate a previously mentioned comment as I think it's extremely important: it may seem obvious, but in the experience I have had, the word docs supplied by your translation company must use the Unicode font too. I would specify this as a major requirement to the translation company. The company that did my translations used a third party font (not Unicode) which turned the job into a costly nightmare. Hope this helps! Steve. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Frederic Fery Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 12:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations Hi Jason I have similar requirement for some of my sites here at the Uni of technology Sydney is it indiscrete to ask you about the ball park those 2 companies gave you? offlist? do they charge per page per language? regards Frederic On 20/10/2004, at 12:30 PM, Jason Foss wrote: We've approached On-Call Interpreters in Melbourne and Precision Languages in Sydney. Both quotes came back in the same ballpark, and it's not a huge amount of text so the cost is not prohibitive. Thanks also for that link Roger - seeing it in action helps a lot. (I think... If only I could read Chinese!) BTW - what makes you think the image thing was a joke? :o) Cheers ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 11:26 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations Jason, I worked on a site a while ago that required translation into 14 different languages. It was an education based portal that contained a lot of text. One of the issues we encountered was when documents were translated in a word document and then supplied to the development team to transfer into a HTML doc. It might seem like an obvious problem now, but at the time it was one of the things that got us. this site had hundreds of pages of text to translate though. Yours might be a bit different. Incidentally, do you mind telling me which translation agencies you've approached? I have worked for quite a few of them in sydney and am just a bit curious :) Hope that helps, Lisa ps haha funny joke about using a big image! :) -Original Message- From: Jason Foss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Foreign Translations Greetings! I have a client who wants part of their website translated into a few other languages, some of them Asian (Chinese Korean are a couple). I have obtained a couple of quotes from translation agencies to actually do the translations, but does anyone have experience with actually implementing this sort of thing in a website? The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Ta Jason ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
The Absolute Minimum Every Software Developer Absolutely, Positively Must Know About Unicode and Character Sets (No Excuses!) - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html I read this entire article, then changed the first meta tag on a test page to be: meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=UTF-8 / then I went to the Chinese translation of Joel's page and cut and pasted some Chinese characters into my html page, saved it, and loaded it in IE expecting to see Chinese side by side to my English text. Nope. Still gibberish. What did I do wrong? Francesco Sanfilippo, Internet Developer --- Blackcoil Productions - http://blackcoil.com URL123 Link Service - http://url123.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Thats interesting, personally I like to be specific about the charset eg: Chinese Traditional Taiwan, Hong Kong meta http-equiv=Content-type content=text/html; charset=big5 / Chinese Simplified China mainland, Singapore and Malaysia meta http-equiv=Content-type content=text/html; charset=gb2312 / Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Francesco wrote: The Absolute Minimum Every Software Developer Absolutely, Positively Must Know About Unicode and Character Sets (No Excuses!) - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html I read this entire article, then changed the first meta tag on a test page to be: meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=UTF-8 / then I went to the Chinese translation of Joel's page and cut and pasted some Chinese characters into my html page, saved it, and loaded it in IE expecting to see Chinese side by side to my English text. Nope. Still gibberish. What did I do wrong? Francesco Sanfilippo, Internet Developer --- Blackcoil Productions - http://blackcoil.com URL123 Link Service - http://url123.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Jason, I worked on a site a while ago that required translation into 14 different languages. It was an education based portal that contained a lot of text. One of the issues we encountered was when documents were translated in a word document and then supplied to the development team to transfer into a HTML doc. It might seem like an obvious problem now, but at the time it was one of the things that got us. this site had hundreds of pages of text to translate though. Yours might be a bit different. Incidentally, do you mind telling me which translation agencies you've approached? I have worked for quite a few of them in sydney and am just a bit curious :) Hope that helps, Lisa ps haha funny joke about using a big image! :) -Original Message- From: Jason Foss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Foreign Translations Greetings! I have a client who wants part of their website translated into a few other languages, some of them Asian (Chinese Korean are a couple). I have obtained a couple of quotes from translation agencies to actually do the translations, but does anyone have experience with actually implementing this sort of thing in a website? The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Ta Jason ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Jason, haven't got direct experience in doing this, but my gut feeling would be to encode everything in unicode (UTF-8) as it should cover most character sets required. You'll need the translated bits of text provided as unicode as well, to place within your document. Does that make sense? Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
depends on what server technology the site is using, of course. from experience, i would recommend JSP - Java's internal handling of Unicode and built-in language/locale stuff (resource bundles) is very effective. all the text is stored in .properties files, one per language and/or country, and JSP/HTML templates dynamically show the text from the appropriate language. On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:09:44 +1000, Jason Foss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings! I have a client who wants part of their website translated into a few other languages, some of them Asian (Chinese Korean are a couple). I have obtained a couple of quotes from translation agencies to actually do the translations, but does anyone have experience with actually implementing this sort of thing in a website? The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Ta Jason ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Hi Jason We had a similar requirement last year. The cost of translating and preparing pages in other language html is very expensive. The job we did already had pdfs of a document in 14 different language but the client wanted to provide easy access to them and an accessible alternative. We prepared an intemmediate page in the different language sets explaining the situation and giving them a phone number in case they couldn't access the pdfs. This page had a link to the pdf document. This didn't cost alot and it seems to work well. You can see what I am trying to describe here http://www.gt.nsw.gov.au/information/languages.cfm Hope this is helpful Roger -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jason Foss Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Foreign Translations Greetings! I have a client who wants part of their website translated into a few other languages, some of them Asian (Chinese Korean are a couple). I have obtained a couple of quotes from translation agencies to actually do the translations, but does anyone have experience with actually implementing this sort of thing in a website? The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Ta Jason ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Jason I developed http://www.anigane.info/en/ http://www.anigane.info/zh-tw/ earlier this year, looking at them might help you What I found worked best was translating the parts of the site which were repeated eg: navigation, contact info in the footer once and using them as a template for all pages to save retranslating the same info over and over for each page Neerav Bhatt http://www.bhatt.id.au Web Development IT consultancy http://www.bhatt.id.au/blog/ - Ramblings Thoughts http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/neerav Jason Foss wrote: Greetings! I have a client who wants part of their website translated into a few other languages, some of them Asian (Chinese Korean are a couple). I have obtained a couple of quotes from translation agencies to actually do the translations, but does anyone have experience with actually implementing this sort of thing in a website? The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Ta Jason ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
I know that SBS (TV) offer a translation service for Websites. I am assuming (dangerous thing to do) that they could also advise on character encoding issues. Might be worth giving them a call. On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:17:56 +1000, Lachlan Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jason Foss wrote: The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Not done it myself (not having much call for other languages in the boondocks of Western Victoria), but I'd recommend both of these articles for your reference: How to choose a Translation Service - http://www.aspnetresources.com/blog/translation_services_howto.aspx The Absolute Minimum Every Software Developer Absolutely, Positively Must Know About Unicode and Character Sets (No Excuses!) - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html Cheers, Lachlan ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Freelance Website Designer/Developer www.pixelkitty.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations
They are being provided in a Word document. Do you know if you can pull Unicode out of that? Thanks! ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 11:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations Jason, haven't got direct experience in doing this, but my gut feeling would be to encode everything in unicode (UTF-8) as it should cover most character sets required. You'll need the translated bits of text provided as unicode as well, to place within your document. Does that make sense? Patrick H. Lauke _ re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations
We've approached On-Call Interpreters in Melbourne and Precision Languages in Sydney. Both quotes came back in the same ballpark, and it's not a huge amount of text so the cost is not prohibitive. Thanks also for that link Roger - seeing it in action helps a lot. (I think... If only I could read Chinese!) BTW - what makes you think the image thing was a joke? :o) Cheers ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 11:26 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations Jason, I worked on a site a while ago that required translation into 14 different languages. It was an education based portal that contained a lot of text. One of the issues we encountered was when documents were translated in a word document and then supplied to the development team to transfer into a HTML doc. It might seem like an obvious problem now, but at the time it was one of the things that got us. this site had hundreds of pages of text to translate though. Yours might be a bit different. Incidentally, do you mind telling me which translation agencies you've approached? I have worked for quite a few of them in sydney and am just a bit curious :) Hope that helps, Lisa ps haha funny joke about using a big image! :) -Original Message- From: Jason Foss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Foreign Translations Greetings! I have a client who wants part of their website translated into a few other languages, some of them Asian (Chinese Korean are a couple). I have obtained a couple of quotes from translation agencies to actually do the translations, but does anyone have experience with actually implementing this sort of thing in a website? The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Ta Jason ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Just to repeat what I was saying before, be really careful with the word docs. you really need to have one of the translators proof the text on screen to check for errors including strange characters and word breaks etc. -Original Message- From: Jason Foss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 12:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations They are being provided in a Word document. Do you know if you can pull Unicode out of that? Thanks! ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 11:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations Jason, haven't got direct experience in doing this, but my gut feeling would be to encode everything in unicode (UTF-8) as it should cover most character sets required. You'll need the translated bits of text provided as unicode as well, to place within your document. Does that make sense? Patrick H. Lauke _ re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Hi Jason I have similar requirement for some of my sites here at the Uni of technology Sydney is it indiscrete to ask you about the ball park those 2 companies gave you? offlist? do they charge per page per language? regards Frederic On 20/10/2004, at 12:30 PM, Jason Foss wrote: We've approached On-Call Interpreters in Melbourne and Precision Languages in Sydney. Both quotes came back in the same ballpark, and it's not a huge amount of text so the cost is not prohibitive. Thanks also for that link Roger - seeing it in action helps a lot. (I think... If only I could read Chinese!) BTW - what makes you think the image thing was a joke? :o) Cheers ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 11:26 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations Jason, I worked on a site a while ago that required translation into 14 different languages. It was an education based portal that contained a lot of text. One of the issues we encountered was when documents were translated in a word document and then supplied to the development team to transfer into a HTML doc. It might seem like an obvious problem now, but at the time it was one of the things that got us. this site had hundreds of pages of text to translate though. Yours might be a bit different. Incidentally, do you mind telling me which translation agencies you've approached? I have worked for quite a few of them in sydney and am just a bit curious :) Hope that helps, Lisa ps haha funny joke about using a big image! :) -Original Message- From: Jason Foss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Foreign Translations Greetings! I have a client who wants part of their website translated into a few other languages, some of them Asian (Chinese Korean are a couple). I have obtained a couple of quotes from translation agencies to actually do the translations, but does anyone have experience with actually implementing this sort of thing in a website? The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Ta Jason ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** --- Frederic Fery ITD Client Web Services Manager University of Technology, Sydney. http://www.hss.uts.edu.au Monday Ph: 02 9514 9933 http://www.dab.uts.edu.au Thursday Ph: 02 9514 8937 http://www.nmh.uts.edu.au Friday Ph: 02 9514 5128 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
ADMIN Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:55:00 +1000, Frederic Fery wrote: is it indiscrete to ask you about the ball park those 2 companies gave you? offlist? do they charge per page per language? Although interesting and probably sensitive, pricing is definitely off-topic. Discussing how to implement cross-language content in a standards-based way is very on-topic for this list - please continue with that, its interesting and useful - pricing is offtopic. Anything beyond the standards relevant parts, please take offlist. Thanks, Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations
The charge was based on a per 100 English words basis - and different languages had different rates - so my quote probably won't help you much anyway (unless you're asking about the same number of words translated into the same languages) - but they both emailed back quotes promptly, so maybe best if you contact them yourself: www.oncallinterpreters.com www.precisionlanguages.com ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frederic Fery Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 12:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations Hi Jason I have similar requirement for some of my sites here at the Uni of technology Sydney is it indiscrete to ask you about the ball park those 2 companies gave you? offlist? do they charge per page per language? regards Frederic On 20/10/2004, at 12:30 PM, Jason Foss wrote: We've approached On-Call Interpreters in Melbourne and Precision Languages in Sydney. Both quotes came back in the same ballpark, and it's not a huge amount of text so the cost is not prohibitive. Thanks also for that link Roger - seeing it in action helps a lot. (I think... If only I could read Chinese!) BTW - what makes you think the image thing was a joke? :o) Cheers ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 11:26 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations Jason, I worked on a site a while ago that required translation into 14 different languages. It was an education based portal that contained a lot of text. One of the issues we encountered was when documents were translated in a word document and then supplied to the development team to transfer into a HTML doc. It might seem like an obvious problem now, but at the time it was one of the things that got us. this site had hundreds of pages of text to translate though. Yours might be a bit different. Incidentally, do you mind telling me which translation agencies you've approached? I have worked for quite a few of them in sydney and am just a bit curious :) Hope that helps, Lisa ps haha funny joke about using a big image! :) -Original Message- From: Jason Foss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Foreign Translations Greetings! I have a client who wants part of their website translated into a few other languages, some of them Asian (Chinese Korean are a couple). I have obtained a couple of quotes from translation agencies to actually do the translations, but does anyone have experience with actually implementing this sort of thing in a website? The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Ta Jason ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** --- Frederic Fery ITD Client Web Services Manager University of Technology, Sydney. http://www.hss.uts.edu.au Monday Ph: 02 9514 9933 http://www.dab.uts.edu.au Thursday Ph: 02 9514 8937 http://www.nmh.uts.edu.au Friday Ph: 02 9514 5128
RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Hi everyone, I'm new to this group and this is my first post. I'd like to re-iterate a previously mentioned comment as I think it's extremely important: it may seem obvious, but in the experience I have had, the word docs supplied by your translation company must use the Unicode font too. I would specify this as a major requirement to the translation company. The company that did my translations used a third party font (not Unicode) which turned the job into a costly nightmare. Hope this helps! Steve. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Frederic Fery Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 12:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations Hi Jason I have similar requirement for some of my sites here at the Uni of technology Sydney is it indiscrete to ask you about the ball park those 2 companies gave you? offlist? do they charge per page per language? regards Frederic On 20/10/2004, at 12:30 PM, Jason Foss wrote: We've approached On-Call Interpreters in Melbourne and Precision Languages in Sydney. Both quotes came back in the same ballpark, and it's not a huge amount of text so the cost is not prohibitive. Thanks also for that link Roger - seeing it in action helps a lot. (I think... If only I could read Chinese!) BTW - what makes you think the image thing was a joke? :o) Cheers ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 11:26 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations Jason, I worked on a site a while ago that required translation into 14 different languages. It was an education based portal that contained a lot of text. One of the issues we encountered was when documents were translated in a word document and then supplied to the development team to transfer into a HTML doc. It might seem like an obvious problem now, but at the time it was one of the things that got us. this site had hundreds of pages of text to translate though. Yours might be a bit different. Incidentally, do you mind telling me which translation agencies you've approached? I have worked for quite a few of them in sydney and am just a bit curious :) Hope that helps, Lisa ps haha funny joke about using a big image! :) -Original Message- From: Jason Foss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 11:10 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Foreign Translations Greetings! I have a client who wants part of their website translated into a few other languages, some of them Asian (Chinese Korean are a couple). I have obtained a couple of quotes from translation agencies to actually do the translations, but does anyone have experience with actually implementing this sort of thing in a website? The easy way is to make an image out of the translation and pop that there - but I don't want to do that for obvious reasons!!! I'm reading a bit about character sets and encoding, but it's all a bit abstract at this point. Any experiences or how-to references would be much appreciated! Ta Jason ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** --- Frederic Fery ITD Client Web Services Manager University of Technology, Sydney. http://www.hss.uts.edu.au Monday Ph: 02 9514 9933 http://www.dab.uts.edu.au Thursday Ph: 02 9514 8937 http://www.nmh.uts.edu.au Friday Ph: 02 9514 5128 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting
RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations
Yeah - thanks Lisa. On-Call Interpreters did mention this specifically in their quote, that stuff will need to be proof read after. But thanks for the heads-up anyway. ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Herrod, Lisa Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 12:43 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations Just to repeat what I was saying before, be really careful with the word docs. you really need to have one of the translators proof the text on screen to check for errors including strange characters and word breaks etc. -Original Message- From: Jason Foss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 12:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] Foreign Translations They are being provided in a Word document. Do you know if you can pull Unicode out of that? Thanks! ** Jason Foss Almost Anything Desktop Publishing www.almost-anything.com.au Telephone: (07) 4927 8033 Facsimile: (07) 4927 5312 Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9 Unmack Street, North Rockhampton, Queensland 4701 We can do almost anything! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke Sent: Wednesday, 20 October 2004 11:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations Jason, haven't got direct experience in doing this, but my gut feeling would be to encode everything in unicode (UTF-8) as it should cover most character sets required. You'll need the translated bits of text provided as unicode as well, to place within your document. Does that make sense? Patrick H. Lauke _ re.dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Foreign Translations
The Absolute Minimum Every Software Developer Absolutely, Positively Must Know About Unicode and Character Sets (No Excuses!) - http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html I went and read this entire article, then changed the very first meta tag on an html page to be meta http-equiv=Content-Type content=text/html; charset=UTF-8 / then I went to the Chinese translation of Joel's page and cut and pasted some Chinese characters into my html page, saved it, and loaded it in IE expecting to see Chinese side by side to my English text. Nope. Still gibberish. What did I do wrong? Francesco Sanfilippo, Internet Developer --- Blackcoil Productions - http://blackcoil.com URL123 Link Service - http://url123.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
