Re: [WSG] XHTML complient in-browser Rich Text Editor.

2005-01-07 Thread Lars-Helge Wilbrandt
Kupu is a client-side WYSIWYG editor that is written entirely in JavaScript, works on Internet Explorer as well as Mozilla based browsers and can be integrated into any type of webserver. It has a clean, object-oriented codebase and a flexible plugin API. It supports client-side cleanup (e.g. Word

[WSG] Site check

2005-01-07 Thread Chris Taylor
Hi, I'd be very grateful if people could check this site, particularly on Mac and Linux platforms. It seems to run OK in FireFox 1, Mozilla 1.7.3, Opera 7.50 and IE 6, and it validates correctly. URL: http://www.stgauderic.net/en/ It will eventually have some textual content, and be available in

Re: [WSG] Site check

2005-01-07 Thread Rick Faaberg
if people could check this site My response has nothing to do with your's or anybody's specific request but I think folks should specify something wrt web standards that they are requesting evaluation or feedback with/about in their message other than please check this on your Mac browsers or

RE: [WSG] Site check www.stgauderic.net/en/

2005-01-07 Thread Chris Taylor
I agree in part with your first comment. The problem is that a lot of the time (I would guess) most people want a complete test in a browser/platform they don't have access to - useability, standards, validity etc etc. BrowserCam is great, but doesn't give you any help regarding useability - other

Re: [WSG] Site check www.stgauderic.net/en/

2005-01-07 Thread Andy Budd
Chris Taylor wrote: BrowserCam is great, but doesn't give you any help regarding useability - other pairs of eyes are what is needed. Before trying BrowserCam I also used to post to places like here and CSS-Discuss to get a wider range of browsers/OS tests and recommendations for fixing any CSS

[WSG] Decision Tree Project

2005-01-07 Thread Charles Martin
Based upon some recent discussion related to how some content should be marked up (as semantically correct as possible), an idea was bandied around to possibly put together a decision tree. This process flow would start with the intended content and ask questions in an attempt to isolate the

Re: [WSG] Site check [www.stgauderic.net]

2005-01-07 Thread Dennis Murphy Anderson
Mac running in 9.2 and IE 5.1.4 shows some small bugs. Attaching a screen shot of the problem areas ... specifically the slogan line and separation of menu from header. Hope this helps. attachment: Internet Explorer 21.jpg

[WSG] problem with z-index

2005-01-07 Thread Thorsten
hi, i'm working on a design based off of http://www.21degrees.com.au/ and i'm running into problems with overlapping elements. here's my work so far (i coded for the Fox at first): html - http://www.thorstenpeh.de/test/devhelp/z-index/ css -

[WSG] How to create a mark-up guide?

2005-01-07 Thread Ted Drake
And all that Malarkey http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/css_markup_guides.html has a recent post about how he creates sites with black and white drawings and adds the div id's etc after the client has approved... This made me think that I should go back to our re-designed web site and

Re: [WSG] problem with z-index

2005-01-07 Thread Thorsten
my own words: but doesn't suggest any solution. can you? i found a solution myself right after sending off my request for help... i set the header picture as the background image of my main container div and added padding-top based on the height of the image. if anyone comes up with a more

[WSG] Connditional Comment / @import Problem in IE 5.0.1

2005-01-07 Thread Michael Wilson
Hi all, For quite a while, I've been using my spare time to improve the standards, CSS, usability, and accessibility of one of my projects. In doing so I've also been trying to move away from IE hacks in my CSS in favor of conditional comments, which for the most part has been a fairly

Re: [WSG] Aural Pleasure

2005-01-07 Thread Chris Kennon
Hi, Any opinions on going with a voice over approach. Perhaps Quicktime or FLASH. I know, I said the F word but the question is related to standards and captioning On Friday, January 7, 2005, at 08:35 AM, Patrick H. Lauke wrote: As far as I'm aware, Emacspeak is the only browser that supports

Re: [WSG] problem with z-index

2005-01-07 Thread Jolorence Santos
Hi, If your trying to achieve the effect that 21 degrees make, you should take a look that they've used a full body background for both the main and navigation, second, they have used another footer background image to achieve the ending footer. Check it using firefox and rightclick on the

Re: [WSG] problem with z-index

2005-01-07 Thread Thorsten
hiya Jolorence Santos, If your trying to achieve the effect that 21 degrees make, you should take a look that they've used a full body background for both the main and navigation, second, they have used another footer background image to achieve the ending footer. that's what i meant with:

RE: [WSG] XHTML complient in-browser Rich Text Editor.

2005-01-07 Thread Wong Chin Shin
1) HTMLArea RC3 - pretty darned powerful. suspect support. It's been at RC3 since the stone ages and nothing much since then. I'm also not very sure about the validity of the output code since changing font families will churn out font tags by default (didn't try to explore changing this as I

RE: [WSG] Slightly OT... Interview with IE Dev team

2005-01-07 Thread Wong Chin Shin
In response to Kornel and some of the more cynical posters, I would say keep your faith. There will always be a Microsoft present in our world, whether they come with the moniker Microsoft, Sun or Oracle. Fortunately, there're other elements to keep things in balance. Opensource is increasingly

Re: [WSG] How to create a mark-up guide?

2005-01-07 Thread Ben Curtis
And all that Malarkey http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/css_markup_guides.html has a recent post about how he creates sites with black and white drawings and adds the div id's etc after the client has approved... This made me think that I should go back to our re-designed web site and

[WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Bruce
I hope I'm not out of line here, but as a webstandards group it is interesting that a simple matter of font size is awaiting being addressed by the G8 presidency team...I included this for general interest ...but at least they are aware of it. Bruce www.bkdesign.ca Dear Bruce, Thank you for

Re: [WSG] How to create a mark-up guide?

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Ted Drake wrote: And all that Malarkey http://www.stuffandnonsense.co.uk/archives/css_markup_guides.html [...] I was wondering if there is a css2 method to show the id or class within the div? Only made a start, but something like: /* general styling for all of the :before bits */ :before {

Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [WSG] How to create a mark-up guide?

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: /* long list of all the ones you need (only catering for id...similar for class, and need to do separate rules for the case in which it's just id, just class, or both id and class */ And to elaborate, as an example: div:before { content: 'div'; } div[id]:before { content:

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Bruce wrote: I hope I'm not out of line here, but as a webstandards group it is interesting that a simple matter of font size is awaiting being addressed by the G8 presidency team...I included this for general interest ...but at least they are aware of it. Considering it's a governmental site

RE: [WSG] semantic markup for song chart?

2005-01-07 Thread Wong Chin Shin
Strictly following the tabularlist example would be rubbish in this context, but if we extend the idea into an ol list with a definition table inside each list element, it may not be so absurd idea. I'm still troubled by using tables to implement a song chart as the semantic meaning behind each

Re: [WSG] semantic markup for song chart?

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Wong Chin Shin wrote: I'm still troubled by using tables to implement a song chart as the semantic meaning behind each row's position (eg. Row 2 is there cos it's ranked LOWER than row 1) is lost. Not if one of your columns is specifically for the chart position. Then, on the first row the data

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 13:55:38 -0500, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope I'm not out of line here, but as a webstandards group it is interesting that a simple matter of font size is awaiting being addressed by the G8 presidency team...I included this for general interest ...but at least they

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Kornel Lesinski
Which standard exactly prohibits use of px as font-size unit? Exactly this one: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-CSS-TECHS/#units and soon this one: http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-WCAG20-CSS-TECHS-20040730/ -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread David Laakso
That's not exactly the way I read it. But then I can't read. ~d On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:45:24 -, Kornel Lesinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which standard exactly prohibits use of px as font-size unit? Exactly this one: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-CSS-TECHS/#units and soon this one:

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Tom Livingston
These are *guidelines* are they not? As opposed to hard-fast rules? ...This document provides information to Web content developers who wish to satisfy the success criteria of Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 2.0 note the word 'Guidelines'... ? Tom Livingston Senior

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread russ - maxdesign
I absolutely hate to jump into the topic of font-size issue, because I think this is the question of religion, not web standards. Which standard exactly prohibits use of px as font-size unit? On the issue of pixel sizes, the guideline that best describes the pixels issue is Web Content

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Which standard exactly prohibits use of px as font-size unit? WCAG 1.0, checkpoint 3.4 http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/#tech-relative-units (although there have been discussions recently on the WAI-IG list about whether or not some of these have now been overtaken by

Re: [WSG] How to create a mark-up guide?

2005-01-07 Thread Ted Drake
This is great Patrick. I'm going to save it as a layout.css and use it for all sorts of stuff. You are the bomb! Ted -Original Message- From: Patrick H. Lauke [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:15 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam]

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Bruce
To quote part of what I posted from G8 web: This is an accessibility issue that we are aware of and hope to be able to address in the near future. I really don't think this is an important matter that would need permission to post anywhere. It isn't a secret. Perhaps I am out of line here,

Re: [WSG] How to create a mark-up guide?

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Ted Drake wrote: This is great Patrick. I'm going to save it as a layout.css and use it for all sorts of stuff. You are the bomb! We aim to please ;-) May have to expand on it a bit more and make it into a proper experiment on my site, I think. Watch this space... -- Patrick H. Lauke

Re: [WSG] Font suggestions

2005-01-07 Thread Charles Eaton
I'll second that choose ( 'Comic Sans MS' ) but, use both the long short version of the name. === On Jan 6, 2005, at 7:02 PM, Andrew Krespanis wrote: Tricia Fitzgerald wrote: Does anyone know of a whimsical font that works in all browsers? I've tried

Re: [WSG] Font suggestions

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Charles Eaton wrote: I'll second that choose ( 'Comic Sans MS' ) but, use both the long short version of the name. No offense, but I think you missed the point, which is: you, as developer, don't know what fonts users may or may not have installed. Therefore, you should opt for generic family

RE: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media]
-Original Message- From: Rimantas Liubertas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 8 January 2005 6:49 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards To be more precise: what percentage of unfortunate web surfers knows that it is possible to change

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 09:17:53 +1100, russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... As pointed out, these are guidelines only, and open to interpretation. For example, pixels could be interpreted to be relative units, as explained by Derek Featherstone:

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
russ - maxdesign wrote: I'd put the question back to the group... Rather than ask why should I not use pixels, as there is nowhere that forces me not to, why not ask how can I make my content as accessible to the widest audience possible. If you ask this question, then right now, with the

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 10:18:55 +1100, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] ... - It may be hard to believe for some, but many computer users do not know how to install a different browser. In fact, many of them don't even know that there is anything else but IE. ... All you say is true. And there

[WSG] A downlable link

2005-01-07 Thread The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store
I hope this is not off topic. If it is please reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] privately. I have a href/a links to files on a web site. What would be the best web standard to make these links an FTP download? So, an individual clicks on a filename and the FTP window opens. I am not sure why my work is

RE: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Graham
I think that the point of this discussion is partially missed, making font size scalable is not just about making a site accessible for people with special needs - it benefits everyone! Consider this scenario: Acme Company hires Zippo Web Dev to create their website Zippo decide 8px Arial is

RE: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media]
-Original Message- From: Rimantas Liubertas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 8 January 2005 10:44 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards So what exactly makes you think those users will: a) know hot to change font size We have to make

Re: [WSG] A downlable link

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
The Man With His Guide Dog At The Tent Store wrote: I have a href/a links to files on a web site. What would be the best web standard to make these links an FTP download? No, you don't mean FTP download (which would only happen if you were using the FTP *protocol*, i.e. your links were pointing

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 10:51:54 +1100, Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that the point of this discussion is partially missed, making font size scalable is not just about making a site accessible for people with special needs - it benefits everyone! Consider this scenario: Acme Company

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 11:02:53 +1100, Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] ... Not all users with visual disabilities use a screen reader. Some may only require a larger font size or a different font colour. Others use screen readers in combination with enlarged fonts. A user I tested once insisted

[WSG] fonts

2005-01-07 Thread Bruce
Some time back I used to add a font sizer to my site as a trial. Font + - Perhaps it isn't a bad idea. I used to have that specifically for the article text, and scaled down for menus. Then I could go back to using fixed fonts, and if someone cannot read 12px text-make it bigger at a click from

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Rimantas Liubertas wrote: These users would benefit most from the 'Accessibility' options under Options menu.That allows them: Ignore colors specified on Web pages Ignore font-styles specified on Web pages Ignore font-sizes specified on Web pages Use own stylesheet Cute...first you argue that

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Rimantas Liubertas wrote: So we may as well end up spending time and money to implement something what is never used. How much time and money does it cost to avoid using px (which does cause real world problems in the erroneous implementation of IE/Win, and therefore calls for an interim

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Bruce
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Quote: And for these users in the know, a quick CTRL+MOUSE WHEEL UP/DOWN is a lot less of a hassle to do on a per-site basis than digging through accessibility options and disabling things for *all* sites (even the ones that show a minimal amount of consideration).

[WSG] label for question

2005-01-07 Thread Wong Chin Shin
Hi, To get validated by Bobby, I need to have a label for=xxx for each input tag. I've got a 2 inputs, a drop down for salutation and a text input for name that really don't want to have a separate label for each. Is it possible/advisable for me to declare a label for both? Thanks Wong

Re: [WSG] fonts

2005-01-07 Thread Felix Miata
Bruce wrote: Some time back I used to add a font sizer to my site as a trial. Font + - Perhaps it isn't a bad idea. I used to have that specifically for the article text, and scaled down for menus. Then I could go back to using fixed fonts, and if someone cannot read 12px text-make it

Re: [WSG] label for question

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Wong Chin Shin wrote: To get validated by Bobby, Forget validated by Bobby. It's really to be accessible. Bobby is just a tool, and it's irrelevant whether or not your site passes its automated tests or not...anyway, rant over, now to the issue... I need to have a label for=xxx for each input

Re: [WSG] fonts

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Bruce wrote: Some time back I used to add a font sizer to my site as a trial. Font + - Perhaps it isn't a bad idea. The problem with custom font sizers is that they only apply to that particular site. I used to have that specifically for the article text, and scaled down for menus. Then I could

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 01:13:03 +, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How much time and money does it cost to avoid using px (which does cause real world problems in the erroneous implementation of IE/Win, and therefore calls for an interim solution in the spirit of WCAG 1.0

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 20:23:20 -0500, Bruce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Quote: And for these users in the know, a quick CTRL+MOUSE WHEEL UP/DOWN is a lot less of a hassle to do on a per-site basis than digging through accessibility options and disabling things for *all*

Re: [WSG] fonts

2005-01-07 Thread Bert Doorn
G'day The problem with custom font sizers is that they only apply to that particular site. And it only applies to one page (without resorting to the use of cookies, javascript, server side technology etc to remember the user's preference). Luckily I am one of the few older guys with poor

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Amazing! I have been online and studying for 10 years, and guess what? I didn't know this... I guess I have nothing to add here. This would be insightful if Bruce was a user that actually needed/relied on resizable fonts. -- Patrick H. Lauke

Re: [WSG] fonts

2005-01-07 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 02:37:24 +, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with custom font sizers is that they only apply to that particular site. This is very true, so users should figure where it is, what it is (at least how to use it is prety obvious). On the other hand

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Patrick H. Lauke
Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Excuse me? 'erroneous implementation'? Which specification says how text-zooming should be implemented? Arguably, UAAG 1.0 guideline 4.1 http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10/guidelines.html#tech-configure-text-scale -- Patrick H. Lauke

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Bruce
That was my point. Not that I was dumb or anything, but lots of us don't know some things. Including those with eyesite difficulties, and that a site guide would be nice. If I could miss that, many others have also. Bruce Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Amazing! I have been

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Gunlaug Sørtun
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote: G.S: Two factors creates this accessibility-problem with pixel-defined text: - Web designers in general don't know that IE/win can *override* font sizes. - Users in general don't know that either. The technical side of it: IE/win has ignore font size...

Re: [WSG] G* addressing standards

2005-01-07 Thread Rimantas Liubertas
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 03:17:17 +, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rimantas Liubertas wrote: Excuse me? 'erroneous implementation'? Which specification says how text-zooming should be implemented? Arguably, UAAG 1.0 guideline 4.1