Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
> -Original Message- From: Sebastian Smolorz > Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:48 PM > Nevertheless, here comes our git repository: > http://git.opensource.emlix.com Thank you for that. I will take a look... > Still a lot of work to do but we are ready to do it and are > confident of getting this beast running. That's the spirit! > If anyone is interested: Don't hesitate to help. I have introduced this idea (and your git link) on the linux-arm-kernel list. Please look there for the continuation of this discussion. Thanks again, Richard ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
Richard Cochran wrote: > > -Original Message- From: Sebastian Smolorz > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:28 AM > > > > We consider to set up a git repository so that you and all > > interested people will be able to clone from it. If anyone feels > > prepared to contribute code to this project we either can provide > > write access to the repository or do it the Linus' way (i.e. we > > would pull from others' repositories), whichever is preferred. > > For now, can you post a diff against a known vanilla kernel version? > > Perhaps later we can set up a public project. Nevertheless, here comes our git repository: http://git.opensource.emlix.com Note that this patch is far less than finished. It is hackish, it does not work, but you asked for it. ;-) The current status is: Sometimes the kernel boots properly and I get a shell prompt. Then a 'ls' is possible, sometimes two but then the systems freezes. Still a lot of work to do but we are ready to do it and are confident of getting this beast running. If anyone is interested: Don't hesitate to help. Regards, Sebastian -- Dipl.-Ing. Sebastian Smolorz, emlix GmbH, http://www.emlix.com Fon +49 551 30664-0, Fax -11, Bahnhofsallee 1b, 37081 Göttingen, Germany Geschäftsführung: Dr. Uwe Kracke, Dr. Cord Seele, Ust-IdNr.: DE 205 198 055 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Göttingen, Amtsgericht Göttingen HR B 3160 emlix - your embedded linux partner ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
> -Original Message- From: Sebastian Smolorz > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:28 AM > > We consider to set up a git repository so that you and all > interested people will be able to clone from it. If anyone feels > prepared to contribute code to this project we either can provide > write access to the repository or do it the Linus' way (i.e. we > would pull from others' repositories), whichever is preferred. For now, can you post a diff against a known vanilla kernel version? Perhaps later we can set up a public project. Thanks, Richard ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
Richard Cochran wrote: > I know that this is a bit off topic, yet perhaps some on this list > have interest or knowledge in this area. I am also posting this idea > to the linux-arm-kernel list. > > I would like to implement the ARM FCSE under Linux, using the Intel > IXP425 board. Before I start, I would like to ask: > > 1. Has any work already been done in this area? Yes, we at emlix evaluate the feasibility of porting the FASS patch to a modern 2.6 kernel in the context of a customer project. It is far more work than expected because central MM implementations both ARM-specific and Linux-general have changed since the 2.4 days. What we have done is to take the FASS patch and tried to make it work with the 2.6 line rather than implementing the concepts from scratch. So far, we are able to compile a FASS-patched 2.6.21 kernel but it fails when trying to start init. We expect a huge amount of bugs hiding inside the code yet. No wonder, we are still in the middle of the work. I would call the code far from being releasable but before you also begin to do the work we have already performed it is reasonable to post our current status. We consider to set up a git repository so that you and all interested people will be able to clone from it. If anyone feels prepared to contribute code to this project we either can provide write access to the repository or do it the Linus' way (i.e. we would pull from others' repositories), whichever is preferred. Regards, Sebastian -- Dipl.-Ing. Sebastian Smolorz, emlix GmbH, http://www.emlix.com Fon +49 551 30664-0, Fax -11, Bahnhofsallee 1b, 37081 Göttingen, Germany Geschäftsführung: Dr. Uwe Kracke, Dr. Cord Seele, Ust-IdNr.: DE 205 198 055 Sitz der Gesellschaft: Göttingen, Amtsgericht Göttingen HR B 3160 emlix - your embedded linux partner ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
Richard Cochran wrote: >> -Original Message- From: Gilles Chanteperdrix > >> The feature was already dropped, it is deprecated in ARMv6. > > Doesn't ARMv6 have a new cache design based on physical addresses? > > I thought I saw this somewhere... Just grabbed this: "Version 6 now supports physically tagged caches, reducing software overhead on context switches." [http://www.simplemachines.it/doc/ARMv6_Architecture.pdf] But does this mean this layout is optional or mandatory for ARMv6 integrators? Jan signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
> -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:48 PM > > So, please try to find out more details about the requirements and > limitations, let us know about them even if some realisation turns > out to be too much for a student job. Maybe other will jump on this, > maybe I can organise some support then (no promise, consider this > yet as my private idea... :) ). Okay, I have posted to the linux-arm-kernel list to see if there is any more general interest in this. After that, I will try to form a working group for this project, either on that list or elsewhere. Richard ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
> -Original Message- From: Gilles Chanteperdrix > > The feature was already dropped, it is deprecated in ARMv6. Doesn't ARMv6 have a new cache design based on physical addresses? I thought I saw this somewhere... Richard ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: > Jan Kiszka wrote: > > Richard Cochran wrote: > > > I know that this is a bit off topic, yet perhaps some on this list > > > have interest or knowledge in this area. I am also posting this idea > > > to the linux-arm-kernel list. > > > > > > I would like to implement the ARM FCSE under Linux, using the Intel > > > IXP425 board. Before I start, I would like to ask: > > > > > > 1. Has any work already been done in this area? > > > > > > 2. Is there something about the current Linux MM that would make this > > >impractical? > > > > Nothing is impossible (specifically as FASS proves its feasibility), > > it's just a question how much work it is to implement it AND maintain it > > or merge it into standard Linux. And I cannot imagine ARM or its > > licensees dropping this feature without an acceptable alternative once > > Linux started to use it broadly... > > The feature was already dropped, it is deprecated in ARMv6. > I'm not claiming to be an ARM insider, but browsing through some manuals makes me think that "The c13, Context ID Register, [...] replaces the FCSE PID register. Use of the FCSE PID Register is deprecated." Moreover: "The ARM1136JF-S processor implements the Fast Context Switch Extension (FCSE) and high vectors extension that are required to run Microsoft WindowsCE." Given this popular user, it is highly unlikely that a feature comparable to FCSE is going to be removed from the ARM architecture - at least as long as its cache is located at such an unpleasant place. Jan signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
Jan Kiszka wrote: > Richard Cochran wrote: > > I know that this is a bit off topic, yet perhaps some on this list > > have interest or knowledge in this area. I am also posting this idea > > to the linux-arm-kernel list. > > > > I would like to implement the ARM FCSE under Linux, using the Intel > > IXP425 board. Before I start, I would like to ask: > > > > 1. Has any work already been done in this area? > > > > 2. Is there something about the current Linux MM that would make this > >impractical? > > Nothing is impossible (specifically as FASS proves its feasibility), > it's just a question how much work it is to implement it AND maintain it > or merge it into standard Linux. And I cannot imagine ARM or its > licensees dropping this feature without an acceptable alternative once > Linux started to use it broadly... The feature was already dropped, it is deprecated in ARMv6. -- Gilles Chanteperdrix. ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
Richard Cochran wrote: > I know that this is a bit off topic, yet perhaps some on this list > have interest or knowledge in this area. I am also posting this idea > to the linux-arm-kernel list. > > I would like to implement the ARM FCSE under Linux, using the Intel > IXP425 board. Before I start, I would like to ask: > > 1. Has any work already been done in this area? > > 2. Is there something about the current Linux MM that would make this >impractical? Nothing is impossible (specifically as FASS proves its feasibility), it's just a question how much work it is to implement it AND maintain it or merge it into standard Linux. And I cannot imagine ARM or its licensees dropping this feature without an acceptable alternative once Linux started to use it broadly... > > 3. Does anyone else have interest in this? I can only repeat that I think this is a worthwhile effort - at least until we know the real effort required for hacking this into Linux and then Xenomai :). It would be really great for ARM real-time applications if you could once isolate then in their own address range, reducing the context switch latencies significantly! So, please try to find out more details about the requirements and limitations, let us know about them even if some realisation turns out to be too much for a student job. Maybe other will jump on this, maybe I can organise some support then (no promise, consider this yet as my private idea... :) ). > > I had once proposed this task as a student project, and so I append > the long project description, below. > > Thanks, > Richard > > ARM Fast Context Switch Extension for Linux > > Motivation > > The ARM v5 CPUs are inexpensive, low power, 32 bit processors widely > used in embedded systems. However, because of these processors' cache > implementation, using memory protection on these systems may incur a > performance penalty that is too great for real time applications. The > aim of this study is to achieve both memory protection and good cache > performance under the Linux 2.6 operating system, by implementing > the Fast Context Switch Extension (FCSE). > > Task > > ARM v5 processors access the cache by virtual addresses. As a result, > the cache is invalidated after a context switch, since no two > processes share the same address space. Reloading the cache from main > memory is a very expensive operation. > > One approach to address this problem, used for example in vxWorks or > uClinux, is to use one "flat" address space, shared by the operating > system kernel and all user processes. This avoids the context switch > penalty while sacrificing memory protection. The obvious drawback > under this scenario is that any one misbehaving program can corrupt > the kernel or other programs. > > Another solution, not yet implemented under Linux, is to use the > "Process ID" register found on some ARM CPUs, for example the Intel > IXP425. This register contains a 7 bit process identifier that can be > combined with a 25 bit virtual address. Using this method allows 128 > distinct 32 MB address spaces, so that up to 128 processes may safely > co-exist, without paying the context switch penalty. The resulting > limitation of 128 processes and 32 MB address space is acceptable for > many embedded systems. > > The tasks of this study would be: > > 1. Research and summarize the existing work in this area. > > 2. Benchmark the current implementations to demonstrate the problem, > using "standard" Linux, Xenomai, and the PREEMPT_RT patch set. > > 3. Illuminate the Linux memory management subsystem. > > 4. Implement FCSE in the Linux memory management subsystem. > > 5. Benchmark the result of the improved kernel. > > Selected references: > > o A short summary of the issue and the approach used by QNX: > http://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.3.0/neutrino/prog/arm_memory.html > > o Context Switching and IPC Performance Comparison between uClinux and > Linux on the ARM9 based Processor > http://opensrc.sec.samsung.com/document/uc-linux-04_sait.pdf > > o Fast Address-Space Switching for ARM Linux Kernels > http://www.ertos.nicta.com.au/software/fass/ The "funny" thing is that some marketing people use this to argue that para-virtualised Linux over some specific microkernel is even faster than native Linux. They just forget to mention the minor technical details about the origin and the domain of these numbers. > > o Context Switch Overheads for Linux on ARM Platforms > http://choices.cs.uiuc.edu/contextswitching.pdf > Jan signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] [RFC] Fast Context Switch Extension for ARM Linux
On 9/20/07, Richard Cochran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I know that this is a bit off topic, yet perhaps some on this list > have interest or knowledge in this area. I am also posting this idea > to the linux-arm-kernel list. > > I would like to implement the ARM FCSE under Linux, using the Intel > IXP425 board. Before I start, I would like to ask: > > 1. Has any work already been done in this area? > > 2. Is there something about the current Linux MM that would make this >impractical? All I have read about it is the FASS project, which you cite. Somebody recently asked the question on the ARM linux mailing list, maybe reading the answer would help you know what ARM linux maintainers think about this idea. http://lists.arm.linux.org.uk/pipermail/linux-arm-kernel/2007-August/041832.html -- Gilles Chanteperdrix ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
