RE: [ydn-delicious] Favicons.
If the Del bookmark saved the favicon URL and fetched the original, that may be a privacy concern. But if Del instead cached favicons and served these instead, I think the privacy concerns are eliminated. Tim -- Tim LarsonAMT2 Unix Systems Administrator InterCall, a division of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: Couple of questions
Nathalie Vaiser wrote: But, I think the search itself should be improved to perhaps give an option of the default 'exact match' with a partial match option. As in my example, if I tagged something as pleural and didn't remember I did that (ie - Robots) and then I search for 'Robot' with no 's' at the end, I would like an easy way to find this tag (partial match) A fuzzy match algorithm like this would be very cool. But only if it were optional, and/or results sorted so that higher confidence results came first. Tim -- Tim LarsonAMT2 Unix Systems Administrator InterCall, a division of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [ydn-delicious] Tags with multiple words?
bruins1961 wrote: I found a thread on this back in Sep/Oct 2007 but nothing newer. Is there going to be a way to incorporate multiword tags using a space delimiter? For example, I want some of my tags to be incident response, computer forensics, data recovery. I guess I just am too stubborn to switch to say incident_response, incident-response, or incidentresponse. I'm so used to searching, thru database or the Internet, using the normal boolean operators and styles... incident response AND data recovery as opposed to guessing how someone might have formatted their tag terms - like above (incident_response, etc.) Thanx!! Go ahead and tag them that way. Then search for incident+response+data+recovery. Boolean AND is the only operator Del understands, so this usage fits perfectly. I know that it seems tempting to think of an incident response as a separate thing from whatever else you might tag, but Del's tagging model allows for flexibility. This way, if you want to search for anything relating to an incident or a response you will find your incident responses too. If you want only incident responses (as opposed to other kinds of responses, or other incident-related stuff), that's what incident+response does. I've never seen the need for a single multi-word tag when additional tags refine my search to get exactly what I want. Tim -- Tim LarsonAMT2 Unix Systems Administrator InterCall, a division of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Using del.icio.us for loosely coupled teams
Tim Regn wrote: Thanks Tim. Do the pages tagged for:SomeoneElse show up in SomeoneElse's tag cloud automagically; or do they have to log in to approve them? What Britta said. :) That's a better explanation than mine. Tim -- Tim LarsonAMT2 Unix Systems Administrator InterCall, a division of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Using del.icio.us for loosely coupled teams
Tim Regan wrote: in how a group might use del.icio.us? I think one straightforward way would be for the team to choose a tag and each member use that tag when posting links that would be of interest to the whole team. But this is open to pollution if other del.icio.us members start using the same tag for other reasons of their own. Have people tried using del.icio.us for such team based scenarios? Is there a built in feature for this? What are your experiences? Register a user, say MyAcademicGroup, and have everyone use for:MyAcademicGroup as a tag. People outside the group would have little reason to tag things to this user's attention, so it should remain relatively spam-free. I haven't used for: tags extensively, but this seems a natural application for them. Tim -- Tim LarsonAMT2 Unix Systems Administrator InterCall, a division of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Tagging and bunddles
stephenbungert wrote: Not many people seem to bundle tags. I try and keep every tag in a bundle. [...] How do you try and organise your bookmarks? Do you use bundles? Or do you just tag like crazy and then hope you remember what tags you used, or hope that delicious search will find them for you? I use bundles, but only to organize my tags on my Del home page. (It would be GREAT if they were similarly grouped on the posting page, hint hint.) I don't use on them for searching; they're not geared for that. For applications such as yours, I just use a series of general to specific tags. For example, I have a JS resource as resource technology computers web programming javascript. If I was heavy into JS as you seem to be, I might add events or ui or whatever to be even more specific. When it comes to disambiguating event-driven programming from social events, that's what tag intersections do - event may be ambiguous by itself, but programming+event is different than holiday+event. You may see this as inconvenient, but it's only one extra click. My style of bundling (_kinds_ of tags, rather than _topics_ of tags) sidesteps some of the problems you're experiencing. I guess I just use Del in a different way?? It works for me. The one thing I'd say is that Del could be friendlier to this style of tagging by making bundles more visible (e.g. the posting page mentioned earlier). Almost every link I save will have a tag from most of my bundles, so it would be so much easier if I could scan a bundle at a time. Feel free to check out del.icio.us/ChristTrekker to see. Tim -- Tim LarsonAMT2 Unix Systems Administrator InterCall, a division of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] case-sensitivity in tags: Firefox extension vs. web interface
Andrew Black wrote: ace_noone wrote: I understand (and agree) that case should not make a difference when browsing tags - but it can make visualizing the list of tags much easier. Funnily enough, I was discussing a similar issue with Flickr this evening. I find it useful to enter long tags in Camel Case (in Delicious and in other similar places like flickr) and it would be nice if delicious were to allow me to use the tag in TheSameCaseAsIEnteredIt. When I use del, tag suggestions ARE TheSameCaseAsIEnteredIt. If you're using an extension or a third-party interface, I dunno about that. Maybe this is not exposed in the API. But I just click my post to del.icio.us button and it works great. Tim -- Tim LarsonAMT2 Unix Systems Administrator InterCall, a division of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] your bookmarks vs your favorites
Nancy McGough wrote: I just looked at all my browsers (Camino, OmniWeb, SeaMonkey, Safari, Shiira, Sunrise, Opera) and they all use the word Bookmark. I wonder if the word Favorite is an MS-Windows thing? Very interesting. If you go wy back in time, back to the First Browser War, back to 1996 (ancient I know!), you'd find that Netscape called these things bookmarks and IE called them favorites. That's all there is to it. Personally I prefer bookmark. It's not a book, but it connotes merely something I need to get back to whereas a favorite OTOH implies I like it. Tim -- Tim LarsonAMT2 Unix Systems Administrator InterCall, a division of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
[ydn-delicious] for: tag listing
I pulled up my only for:user tag, and though it said listing all 5 items there was only 1. Tim -- Tim LarsonAMT2 Unix Systems Administrator InterCall, a division of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: Relaunch?
selune13 wrote: Yes, I do use bundles, but for bundles, you can only put your tags under one bundle and no other. This makes it more complicated when, for instance, I have adult patterns and adult content sites. I can't put the tag adult under the Patterns bundle because I'll be lumping in adult content sites as well. :) I have some tags that I leave unbundled. Generally they act as modifiers to other tags, but often in very different contexts, much like the situation you describe. I think you just need to rethink your bundling strategy in light of this. Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: Relaunch?
Jerry Krinock wrote: I understand. My favorite case is Fruits.Apple vs. Computers.Apple. Sometimes you need a hierarchical structure. At least Apple Computer was thoughtful enough to mis-spell their Macintosh to avoid crosstalk with the McIntosh apple fruits :)) Doesn't everyone tag hierarchically? Everything I tag with macintosh also goes in computers, as do many things tagged windows (not the URLs about glass, of course). Everything that is tagged computers is also tagged with technology, which also encompasses my interest in radio, etc. Everything that is tagged uk or germany is also tagged europe. It's all about establishing context with your tags. A tag, completely in isolation, may have many different meanings. Putting it in the context of another tag helps define it. I don't really use bundles to establish this hierarchy, as the previous poster was trying to do. I use tags. Bundles help organize my tags: uk, germany, and europe are in my places bundle. It would be rather meaningless for me to want to look at everything in the places bundle, because everything happens somewhere, so every news type posting I've made would show up. Usually I have at least one tag from each bundle to define the posting - the page is of some type like news, commentary, humor, reference; it concerns some topic or issue and often more than one, as I establish context and hierarchy; it is often in a specific place; and (if notable) I may want to save the author. This requires diligence, and it's not always easy to remember what the parent tag of any given tag is, since hierarchy (being contextual) is an ad hoc concept. It it were possible to do some analysis dynamically during the tagging process in order to determine likely parent/child tags based on tags already entered thus far, that would be a huge help. I have no idea how feasible that is though. Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Sorted RSS
Alexander Skwar wrote: L Ellis schrieb: Is there a website/RSS service that will consume the del.icio.us feed and then give you a new URL for the sorted feed? This sounds like a good task for Yahoo! Pipes - http://pipes.yahoo.com/. http://pipes.yahoo.com/. Neat idea. That would certainly mitigate (but not eliminate) the need for Del to add decent sorting capabilities of its own. Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Relaunch?
Joshua Schachter wrote: It's a huge overhaul on the backend (this time architected by people who aren't me, which is probably good) plus a frontend redesign (some new styling, plus the opportunity to get rid of the impacted css and javascript crud.) Infrastructure updates are never glamorous, but the effort usually pays off in the long run. Not a lot of new stuff in there, although we are adding some things that are VERY frequently asked for (bulk-ish editing, alphabetical sort, that kind of stuff ... and the blue on pink bit will go). We should be able to go to a MUCH faster release schedule after the new lauch so a lot of the stuff I've been saying we're working on that to for the last year will be able finally get done. /me does a little dance of joy! Scratch that... BIG dance of joy! Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Suggestion: Regular Expressions for Tags
Sergio Nunes wrote: While navigating through my bookmarks, I found myself thinking that some form of regular expressions for tag selection would greatly improve my filtering. For example, I use qualifiers in several tags (e.g.: date:2007, date:200701, recipe:fish, ...) It would be great to be able to use regular expressions with these tags (e.g. date:2006 or recipe:*). How about just splitting those into multiple tags? Search for recipe+fish for recipes involving fish, and just recipe to get all the recipes. I once wanted Del to have different types or namespaces of tags as well, but the generalized solution often works just as well. It may leave the exact nature of a tag ambiguous but it's also flexible, which is a strength. Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] AccessKey for earlier links screws up editing in Safari
Andrew Wooster wrote: I just noticed that del.icio.us now has accesskeys set for the earlier/later links. earlier is now bound to ctrl+e, and later is now bound to ctrl+l. I see it's using rel=prev/next links as well. Very nice. Sadly, this means that when editing text with Safari in any text box on a page with an earlier link, ctrl+e will take you to the earlier page. Ctrl+e, in the Cocoa text system on OS X, is bound similar to emacs, in that it takes you to the end of the paragraph (or line). See: http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/Site/System%20Bindings.html http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~jrus/Site/System%20Bindings.html I just wanted to chip in my two cents that I'd really prefer not to have this behavior on del.icio.us. This is really a matter for Safari to work out. The accesskey modifier used by the browser should not be something that is used elsewhere in the system. The collision here is completely Safari's fault. If Cocoa uses Ctrl+letter already, then browsers should use Ctrl+Opt+letter, or Ctrl+Shift+letter, or whatever. The web page should be able to use any letter for an accesskey, trusting the browser not to cause confusion. Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: Link checker for del.icio.us?
Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: My main concern about tools like disastrous is that popular links, bookmarked by N persons, will be checked N times... Precisely why it would be very nice if Yahoo/Delicious did centralized link checking...much less bandwidth being used overall. Since Yahoo is already crawling around, it couldn't be that much extra for them. Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
[ydn-delicious] link legibility
Would it be possible to change the style of class pop anchors (the saved by X other people links) to use colored borders rather than colored backgrounds? The dark backgrounds make the text completely illegible because there's not enough contrast. Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Link checker for del.icio.us?
Michael Feher wrote: It's possible to have similar bookmarks (similar) addresses, prior to adding them via delicious. ex. www.something.com and http://www.something.com http://www.something.com and http://something.com. http://something.com. It happens. Ahhh, I get you now. I guess I've run into that myself. It would help if all webmasters would set their servers to redirect to the canonical form of the domain name. Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Link checker for del.icio.us?
Alexander Skwar wrote: Does somebody know of a link check service for del.icio.us? I'd like to have it check all of my bookmarks, and if the bookmark is not available anymore, it should either remove it directly from my collection, or, maybe even better, it should tag it with some tag (like unavailable or whatever). Or if the target is moved, it should get some other tag and maybe the new URL as a note. Does something like this exist? There is a plugin for Firefox (LinkChecker, appropriately enough), which works well if you can get all the bookmarks you want to check on one page. You have to manually fix the del.icio.us entry, but it's a cross-platform solution, and not limited to working only with bookmarking services. Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Link checker for del.icio.us?
Michael Feher wrote: How about including a duplicate-link finder feature to help weed out dupes? I use the browser buttons for Delicious, and if I try to save a link I already have, it is quite obvious. How do you get dupes? Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Link checker for del.icio.us?
Rocco Caputo wrote: On May 8, 2007, at 14:49, Larson, Timothy E. wrote: There is a plugin for Firefox (LinkChecker, appropriately enough), which works well if you can get all the bookmarks you want to check on one page. You have to manually fix the del.icio.us entry, but it's a cross-platform solution, and not limited to working only with bookmarking services. All your bookmarks are on one page. There's a bookmarks.html file somewhere in your Firefox profile directory. Sounds like this has the potential to tie up your browser for a while. :) Delicious only displays 25/50/whatever bookmarks per page. I suppose it would take awhile (I assume it makes HEAD requests to all the URLs it finds on the page) but any tool is going to take awhile. Just open another browser tab/window/instance if you need to keep surfing. Using this plugin does have a drawback on Delicious pages, because it checks all navigation links as well as the bookmarks, though it seems smart enough to ignore things marked logout/delete/etc. Tim -- Tim Larson InterCall, a subsidiary of West Corporation Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] exclude tag from search
sonja_ausland wrote: do I miss something or is this really not possible at the moment: if I add the tags vacation and 2006 to many bookmarks and only vacation (without 2006) to 2 bookmarks - how to find these 2? What I wanted to do is: click on vacation and then *exclude* 2006 from related tags. Is this possible? AFAIK, no. Greater support for set operations (besides AND) have been requested from time to time, but (to date) I don't think they've ever been seriously considered. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
[ydn-delicious] feature req: alternative title
I was looking around some of the other social bookmarking sites and noticed that Simpy has the ability to store an alternative title. This allows the original title to be saved in its original form while still providing the user the ability to have a custom title of their own. I think this is a great idea. I'd even go one step further by suggesting a unique twist, which is easiest to describe by illustration. Here's an example of an accurate, but nondescript, page title. Title: Florida man killed Custom: Display:a ...Florida man killed/a I'd like a more personally meaningful title. Title: Florida man killed Custom: My uncle's neighbor died in a freak storm! Display:a ...My uncle's neighbor died in a freak storm!/a That's relevant to me, but others viewing my bookmarks may not appreciate the significance. Here's a way to combine both. Title: Florida man killed Custom: Tampa $TITLE by lightning next door to my uncle's house Display:Tampa a ...Florida man killed/a by lightning next door to my uncle's house I think this would be really cool. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
[ydn-delicious] legibility - plz consider changing style
On any of my bookmark pages, the bit that says saved by X other people is shaded with red, darker the more people have also saved it. This has the effect of making the light blue text completely unreadable for popular pages. Can you please change this from a background color to a border, or some other kind of effect? I appreciate the effort at putting a fuzzy indicator (color) along with a precise indicator (number), but if I can't read it, then it might as well be a color-coding only. Thanks, Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Hiding Tags and Auto Bundles
Chris Lott wrote: I've been using the uri:asin:xxx tag assuming that sometime in the future it might enable some interesting auto-linking stuff. And even if it doesn't, I need some kind of convention for tags used when I pull feeds elsewhere. Similarly, I 'd like to use something like: author:last,first etc... I once thought I wanted an author field in Del. But I've discovered that plain old tags can do a lot of this...now I use the convention that all-lowercase are normal tags and CamelCase for the author name field. I don't know if this convention would particularly help you personally, but I've seen other Del users doing this, too. I'd still like to see true fields for pre- and post-title expansion text, but we've been over that before. :) But even with just using the standard uri tag, the display of such tags are starting to be irritating. It would be cool to be able to hide classes of tag from display. There's no reason to, by default at least, need to see all the uri:asin links in this page, for instance: http://del.icio.us/fncll/ToRead http://del.icio.us/fncll/ToRead For the type of meta-classification that you're describing, I can definitely see your point. Also, it would nice to be able to have all tags with a certain name, prefix, or of a type added to a bundle. So all uri:asin:x tags would be automatically added to the zBookRefs bundle on my list... This sort of thing would be nice, but I'd prefer to see it done completely ad hoc, without relying on particular prefixes or whatever. For example, in general, I'd like all my web tags also tagged computer, and all computer tags to also be tagged technology. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Request for hierarchical bookmarks
Hamish MacEwan wrote: Hierarchical structures of folders are a straitjacket, based on a place for everything and everything in its place. In fact its more like one and only one place for anything. But if you enjoy the results you can have them in del.icio.us by tagging with the folder names you wish in the hierarchy and accessing thus for example: I have to agree completely. Before I discovered Del, I'd been brainstorming how to build my own online bookmark system, which was going to be a hierarchal system. As a student of religion, one particular problem illustrated the deficiency of this system for me: Jewish Christianity. With my system, would I put this under Judaism? Christianity? Devise some clumsy way for it to be in both? It certainly doesn't belong at a higher level on par with either of those parents. Using tags neatly solves the problem. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Request for hierarchical bookmarks
Marcelo Wolfgang wrote: That's where the tagging system of del.icio.us comes in handy. You could tag the link as judaism and christianity and the link will be show under the two hierarchy, so you will always found it's place. Precisely! Think of the tags as folders, you can delimit them ( user choice here del.icio.us if you ever going to implement this ) as I do using a '.' example design.photoshop and design.technique so I will have a tree structure like this : - design - photoshop - technique and the same bookmark will be under both branches. For those that want a hierarchal system, I think this is a good solution. Myself, I wouldn't use it, because it reintroduces all the innate problems of hierarchy. Let's say I have a link about Photoshop, not related to design, but perhaps an article discussing UIs of various programs. I wouldn't want to put this in design.photoshop, but maybe a software.photoshop instead. Now I have to maintain two separate (and long, especially if it extends beyond two levels) tags, whilst Del allows for tag intersections (design+photoshop and software+photoshop) already. Hierarchy presumes that something in a child category automatically belongs in the parent category, which is not always the case. Currently, any notion of hierarchy/supersets has to be carefully and consistently maintained by users when adding tags because Del never makes them explicit. Often I find myself trying to find similar links to see what I've done before, so I don't forget a useful tag. How about displaying the user's list of tags by bundles on the posting page, to make visual scanning easier? Tools to aid in set management, such as making selection of a tag automatically suggest parent (as defined by the user) tags which could then be selected (or not), would also be very beneficial. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: Seriously needed features.
magnoliasoutherly wrote: If me, then I hate to say it, but no. These features I'm requesting are not available or do not work with other extensions. I use Firefox and because I'm using a Delicious Firefox extension that Delicious has made themselves, I'm requesting features for this extension. It is fluid and not unreasonable in the least. Why use more extensions to get features for the original extension? I agree Delicious needs to do what it does best, but it needs to be more user friendly and take into account why users use various browsers. It was not clear you were addressing the interface of the FF extension. I don't use it, and think primarily of the web interface. One shouldn't try to emulate a particular browser's conventions when designing a web interface, hence my objections. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Seriously needed features.
AFAICT, these are all implemented browser-side. If you want these things, use a browser that does them. I am perfectly happy using del with Firefox, Opera, and Camino and the features they provide. We don't need del to try to reimplement browser-side features with clever tricks for users that don't have them; del needs to focus on what it does best. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: Smallish Feature Request
magnoliasoutherly wrote: --- In ydn-delicious@yahoogroups.com mailto:ydn-delicious%40yahoogroups.com , Larson, Timothy E. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael wrote: Have the option/setting for If I click on one of my bookmarks, open the link in a new window Browsers have this built in. Usually you can just ctrl-click or shift-click or something. True, but not most users do not find this a desirable method. It's much easier to just click a bookmark then to press a button AND click. So you think. Yes, it seems minor but it is an annoyance to have to do it ALL the Have you done formal research on this? I've been doing it (ctrl- or shift- or cmd-clicking links) for years and it doesn't bother me at all. Plenty of people I know have been doing likewise. None of us find it to be a huge annoyance. time. This is why Tab Mix Plus is such a popular extension for Firefox. It eliminates the need to have to do it all the time. It may be popular, but I can virtually guarantee that there are vastly more FF installations that do NOT have TMP than those that do. Is that by choice, or by ignorance? Who knows...but it is very ill-advised to go changing default browser behaviors for zillions of others just because you happen to like it. I tend to believe that if this method of browsing was, in fact, so preferable, that browser developers would have made this the default behavior some time ago! Unfortunately for users however, TMP cannot control Delicious and it is in the Delicious laps to fix it in order to make users happy. It's very fortunate that TMP cannot control del.icio.us. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
[ydn-delicious] RE: bundles when adding
Larson, Timothy E. wrote: I recently started using bundles to organize my tags, and love it. However, they'd be most useful when I'm on the screen adding a new link so I can find what I'm looking for more easily. Why are they only displayed in one big blob on the edit page? I've set up my bundles such that they represent kinds of attributes (e.g. authors), so for each link I'd likely want one or more from each. I hadn't seen any discussion of this, so I was wondering if it had gotten out. Thanks, Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Smallish Feature Request
Michael wrote: A feature request for the next del.icio.us version.. Have the option/setting for If I click on one of my bookmarks, open the link in a new window Browsers have this built in. Usually you can just ctrl-click or shift-click or something. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
[ydn-delicious] bundles when adding
I recently started using bundles to organize my tags, and love it. However, they'd be most useful when I'm on the screen adding a new link so I can find what I'm looking for more easily. Why are they only displayed in one big blob on the edit page? I've set up my bundles such that they represent kinds of attributes (e.g. authors), so for each link I'd likely want one or more from each. Thanks, Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation!
RE: [ydn-delicious] Help! Can't see bookmarks and tags in Bookmarks pane anymore
mfeher00 wrote: Also, one final question - I like the idea of tags but it REALLY sucks that you can't use the hierarchical (nested) method of topical subfolders like I used to do, and tags look retarded like CharlieParker or joesatriani. Does anyone have any creative ways around these limitations? Thanks. Nope. Both of these issues take getting used to. Tag-based sorting is just fundamentally a different way of doing things than using a rigid hierarchy. I'm a programmer and used to smooshed names like that, so I don't think they look silly at all. I prefer CamelCase for multiword tags, but others use separator_characters instead. Whatever floats your boat... Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: is del.icio.us a social news service?
John Remmers wrote: A personal star system is good for labeling your personal favorites, but not so good for finding what other people consider to be their favorites. For favorites-sharing, you need a standardized way of doing it. If the online documentation were to mention a few of these common desires, and mention possible workarounds (just use one to five asterisks to rate your bookmarks!) it would become a de facto standard. No additional coding necessary - you just have to nudge people in the right direction. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: is del.icio.us a social news service?
Britta wrote: I have a star system: http://del.icio.us/britta/%E2%98%85 When a website catches my interest to the point of obliterating everything else in the world while I read it, I give it a unicode-star tag. I bookmark lots of stuff - most of it is just interesting, and some of it is awesome. This helps me remember the awesome stuff. Some people use asterisk tags as a type of rating system: http://del.icio.us/tag/***, for example. I couldn't agree more with this. Use what's built in to the system already. When I was new to Del, I thought it would be great to have a separate author field. But you know, using a plain ol' tag like AuthorName works just fine. (I suppose one could get fancier and use author:AuthorName or some other convention to distinguish between pages by vs. pages about that person, if desired.) I modified the script for my post button to automatically grab the author name(s) from the page (if supplied in the metadata) to use as a tag. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] subwebs and better link recommendations
Amir Michail wrote: * when entering a bookmark, you supply not only tags but also virtual inlinks and virtual outlinks; for example, when bookmarking TeXmacs, you might supply LyX as a virtual inlink and several TeXmacs resources pages as virtual outlinks. [snip] If simply having pre- and post-link title expansion text is seen as too complex for users, I _know_ this will be. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Change Date of post?
Chris Lott wrote: I'd like a way to change the date of a post (or reset it to today if nothing else)-- in feeds I use for classes I like to highlight some basic resources early on-- but they get obscured by all the later posts. Short of deleting and relinking, it would be nice to be able to make them new again... Better would be alternative sorting methods, but that's been discussed before... What about tagging it with the name of the class? Or important? And then bringing up only links with that tag? As links cease being of higher relevance, remove the tag from them that denotes that. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups. See the new email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SktRrD/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/IHFolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Change Date of post?
Chris Lott wrote: On the front of my blog I list the most recent books I plan to read, am reading, and have read, using the tags ToRead, NowReading, and DidRead. The problem is that when I change a book from ToRead to NowReading or DidRead, since the date doesn't change, it doesn't show up in the list as the most recently read-- it still has the date it was added to my reading list originally... so it doesn't show up unless I delete and re-add it. So while there are workarounds, and I appreciate them, being able to change the date of the post would be extremely helpful. But you (speaking of the abstract you) don't want to lose the date of original posting, either. What you want is a creation date and a modified date...and a way to sort by date modified rather than date created. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: Maintaining the del.icio.us links
Britta wrote: I know I'm repeating myself, but I believe that dead-link checking is perfect as a third-party service. A rather small percentage of del.icio.us users cares about checking for dead links, so if you're a user who does, why not use http://peerfactor.fr/testmarks/, or make your own service on top of del.icio.us to do this? That way, the links that you want to get checked will get checked, while del.icio.us is left free to work on more interesting and useful features that can benefit everyone. Well, I do think denoting dead links would be a very useful feature for everyone. But anyway... I guess I don't care who actually does it, as long as del supports the marking of links as dead and distinguishes them somehow. If I tag a link with system:dead or some other special identifier, I'd really like that to pop out at me. I _should not_ have to go to /MyUser/system:dead to find them. If this much is done, a third party can do the checking, or del could add that feature later. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Maintaining the del.icio.us links
Joshua Schachter wrote: All kinds of subtlety here. For example, what to do if the site happens to be down while we check it? What about respecting robots.txt etc? I don't think there's too much subtlety involved. Obviously (to me), robots.txt needs to be respected. Those links will simply not be automatically checked for validity. Sometimes the reason a link dies is because the site _has_ gone away. I understand that a temporary outage creates a false positive, but I think this kind of tool would be very useful nonetheless. You'd probably need tools for administration of this (so it could be unset, or set, manually) - but it could be done through a special tag, too. Make a rule that tags beginning in special: (or whatever) are reserved for special use by the system. Just flag the dead links with special:dead and you're done. (In this case the special use could be addition of class=dead to the LI tag for this entry. A CSS rule could dim it or something.) Remove this tag to restore the link. Thus no extra admin features are needed, just tag management. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Maintaining the del.icio.us links
rikmaes wrote: An old problem, yet still without answer. It would be extremely useful to have the opportunity to check the links of all your del.icio.us bookmarks on their availability. My own experience is that older entries in del.icio.us deteriorate due to this phenomenon. Is there any solution for this obsolescence problem? I'd very much like an automated facility like this. Links could be classed dead and denoted by CSS or something. Obviously they shouldn't be removed automatically, since it may be temporary. But a notification to the user, and a special system:dead tag or somesuch, would prompt people that they need to look for that resource elsewhere. If there were a additional snippet field for saving a small section of relevant text that could then be used to search for other copies of the resource, that would be very helpful. On del, this could be used as a preview of sorts. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] Directory Listing
Red Robin wrote: When I go into my bookmarks page at del.icio.us, I see the name of the site on one line fpllpwed by the tags I used to store it. Is there anyway another line can be added to show the URL? Maybe hover over the link. There are also browsers that can show a list of all links in the current page in another pane. I'd rather keep the listing relatively compact. OTOH, since the info is retreived anyway, the only additional overhead is some bandwidth. It could be done as a user preference, if it were off by default. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/6pRQfA/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/IHFolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ydn-delicious/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [ydn-delicious] How to get information on expired links?
rikmaes wrote: Is there any way to check the links in delicious on their actual existence? I'd love it if links were automatically crawled somehow, with expired links flagged with a CSS class like expired or dead so that they displayed differently. If they reappear later the flag could be removed. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "ydn-delicious" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [ydn-delicious] Re: Feature request/suggestion: UNC as well as URLs = knowledge mngmnt systm
NM Public wrote: A possible solution to this problem, which I agree is a problem, is to put a mini icon next to links that often launch external apps, e.g., on my sites, I use: protocol or mimetype icon mailto: envelope nntp: or news: 2 envelopes feed: .)) [from feedicons.com] imap: (haven't decided yet?!) This would be very easily done via CSS. I currently have a user CSS rule to append the \002709 character (an envelope) to all mailto: URLs. There are browser plugins that do the same sort of thing. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Eschew obfuscation! SPONSORED LINKS Developer network Computer security Computer training YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "ydn-delicious" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [ydn-delicious] are we all subscribed to ydn-delicious now?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and how should we go about loging into that new fancy yahoo thingy? it asks for a yahoo id... i tried my delicious id/password but it doesn't like it. do i really need to create yet another account to edit my [EMAIL PROTECTED] options? I gotta agree, and I think people were saying this about a month ago when the first news came out about the Yahoo move. I don't want to have to register something just to sign up to a mailing list. Just sign me up to the mailing list - I really don't care about centralized subscription mgmt etc. A bunch of my Mac-related lists move to Google recently, so I'm not on them anymore. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "ydn-delicious" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [ydn-delicious] are we all subscribed to ydn-delicious now?
Michael Wiik wrote: I would unsubscribe but want to retain [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't know why I started getting ydn-delicious email. What's up??? Last Monday (Apr 17) morning, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote... Hello discuss@del.icio.us subscribers, On Monday morning, at approximately 10AM eastern time, the discuss mailing list will be migrated to a newly created Yahoo! group called [EMAIL PROTECTED] The discuss@del.icio.us address will now redirect to the new mailing listt. All of the current members have been subscribed to this new group and should notice no change in functionality. If you would like to take a peek at some of the options and features, browse over to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ ydn-delicious/ . Please reply to me off list if you have any questions or concerns. Thanks! -max If you still have questions, please direct them to Max! Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "ydn-delicious" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [delicious-discuss] Feature Request: Open in New Window
David wrote: Here's one feature I would find handy: a setting for opening links in a new window (or tab, depending upon your browser setting). I set this preference on Google all the time. That way, when I click on links, the new page opens in a new tab and I don't have to backtrack through umpteen pages to get to my bookmarks page. The same feature would be very convenient on del.icio.us too; I could keep my del.icio.us page open in one tab, visit my umpteen favorites, and just close tabs as I finish with them, without leaving the del.icio.us page. Virtually guaranteed that your browser already provides this functionality for you. Ctrl-click, ctrl-shift-click, right click, or something. It works universally, not limited to del.icio.us only. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Celebrate Patriots' Day! April 19 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] notes maximum length?
Chris Lott wrote: I agree that I don't want to see del go the route of having too many fields to fill in. Even when they are optional they have a stifling kind of effect. If they are hidden unless you choose to see them, how are they going to stifle anything? Most computer users stick with application defaults, so they'll never even be aware of the optional fields. Thus they won't feel stifled or scared off. Users sophisticated enough to dig into preferences will understand that optional does mean optional. They won't be stifled or scared off by them either. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices Celebrate Patriot Day! April 19 ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] notes maximum length?
Lindsay Donaghe wrote: Could you please have the max length set on text box that you can type the description in so that you don't type a whole paragraph and then find it truncated when you look at your saved link? I end up with that happening all the time and it would be really easy to prevent from del.icio.us http://del.icio.us/ 's side just by setting the maxlength attribute on the text area. And then people wouldn't have to wonder what the max length is. I just hate losing data and having things cut off in mid-sentence or even mid-word. When I was planning my own bookmark manager (before I discovered del.icio.us) I also realized the need to truncate notes at some point. I'd also decided on 255, but was going to have the engine be smart enough to back up to the preceding whitespace and add ellipsis there to indicate the truncation. But then, I'd already decided I was perfectly fine with silent truncation. Even better (but probably less likely) it would be nice if we could have more than 255 characters to work with. About double that would be a lot more useful for me. Gotta cut it somewhere. 255 chars is roughly 40 words (in English). I think in a majority of cases that's sufficient for a reminder/summary/snippet. Most of my links don't have descriptions, and those that do are not very verbose. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] notes maximum length?
Lindsay Donaghe wrote: Well, people do use del.icio.us in different ways. Maybe a lot (or Agreed, they do indeed. even most) people don't write long comments or comments at all, but others do. I think the people who do use the comments feature contribute a good bit to the del.icio.us community and should be encouraged. Many times I've depended on the comments to help me decide whether a link was worth clicking on. I think pre- and post-title extensions (as I described several weeks ago) would add a lot to the individual users and the community as a whole, too. This has been my way of incorporating the title into a description (which is the most beneficial way to do it, for me) in my bookmark pages in the past, so I could use the desc/comment field for a page snippet. It would be a very simple modification to add the maxlength attribute to the description and then would not cause the frustration of having your text truncated. You'd know immediately where the limit was. It's just a usability issue. I know there has to be a limit, depending on what kind of database you're using, the char types are typically limited at 256 characters, I think, so making it bigger would require changing the type which is a major enhancement, I know. But if that can't easily happen, keeping me from losing data at the start would still be nice. My intention was not to disparage your primary idea - I think it is a good one. I was just offering a slightly different implementation idea, which depends on the goal trying to be achieved. The maxlength is great for those entering in a web interface, and the truncation-with-ellipsis is probably better for automatic imports. For what _I_ often use the description for (quoted snippets from the page) I'd prefer truncation-with-ellipsis even when manually entering, because it'd be faster, as I'm not going to reword it to fit. But I'm willing to accept that I'd probably be the minority here, and the usability gains overall would be larger, and the extra effort for me really isn't that much. But the trend I've seen with del.icio.us is that even useful, easy-implementable features will probably go unimplemented if they're perceived as beneficial only to a small minority. That's not necessarily good, or bad, but just the way it is. *shrug* Most people probably won't make use of longer descriptions, just like most people probably wouldn't make use of pre-title and post-title fields. As a developer myself, I completely understand it - it's just not fun being in the minority section. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] notes maximum length?
Lindsay Donaghe wrote: I agree, there are things that I'd like to see in del.icio.us that will probably never happen. I think I remember your discussion before, Timothy about additional fields. Personally, I prefer the way that Furl handles it where you have a field for comments, a field for clips (excerpts from the page), a field for keywords, as well as the title, and topics (their version of tags). Of course not all of their users actually use those fields, in fact, probably the small minority do consistently. But those people that take the time and effort to document things more thoroughly are contributing to the real value of the service. The more information the better. I tend to agree. Especially in light of what you say later. We're getting this service free but we are providing value to Yahoo - at least, Yahoo seems to think so. :) The more fields to classify data, the more ways to access and use the data, the better, IMO - better for us, and better for Yahoo. You're right - if I had a field specifically for clips, I wouldn't have to repurpose the description/comment field, which would make searching easier later on. Some of this may come at the expense of simplicity (an important feature in itself) but not necessarily. Not all of this has to be exposed to users right away. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] notes maximum length?
Joshua Schachter wrote: The main problems with more fields is that a) it scares the bejeezus out of most users, as empty fields are things that MUST be filled to continue, or they are stressed, and b) we need to continue to work on the database for storing this kind of stuff (which will happen in the future.) The main point of delicious is not to get people to classify things -- I think there would be much better ways to build something around that goal. All of which is exactly why I said the complexity doesn't have to be exposed to most users. Let there be a flag in the prefs for advanced interface or something. Users will not be concerned that there are 20 empty fields if they only ever see the 4 they are using. (Out of sight, out of mind; ignorance is bliss; etc.) I don't think a goal should be getting people to classify when they don't want to, but letting people classify if they do want to. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] Tagging Tags?
Joshua Schachter wrote: i dunno. i think it makes everything very complicated. how would the relevance affect anything other than notation? maybe there needs to be a to distinguish this is a url i wanted to save vs this is a GREAT url i wanted to save How 'bout a GM script that automatically fetches/displays Google PageRank ... or something ... Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] How to Create Multi-word Tags?
Daniel Sandbecker wrote: It would make some sense for del.icio.us to have a recommended best practice on this. See http://www.dlib.org/dlib/january06/guy/01guy.html (D-Lib Magazine). That's not a bad idea - the uniformity would definitely make the aggregated use of tags easier - but it would probably only take hold for those that haven't already thought through the issue on their own. The more technical audience probably has their own predisposition for how multiple word identifiers should be done. I'm a Java programmer sometimes, and tend to follow javaCaseConventions as a result. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] Bugs, Features and a users experience :)
Larson, Timothy E. wrote: W.B. McNamara wrote: It does if you click on the + sign itself rather than the term. I do this all the time myself. That's a good usability point. Half the time I do this, too, basically seeing the + foo as a single unit rather than a + and a foo, no matter how many times I make the mistake. I do think it needs a larger target than just the +. Since these are the related tags, and the full tag list is just below, my thought would also be that these links would lead to currentTag+relatedTag. I understand that some people would want to see _only_ the related tag, though. Or alternatively, mark the related tags in the tags listing with a class (in the HTML), like the current tag is now. Apply a style so they stand out. (Suggestion: prefix with the ~ character to denote similarity/relatedness.) Then everything in the related tags listing can be links to currentTag+relatedTag - so you retain the current functionality, reduce redundancy, and eliminate the problem of the small target. I think it would be readily apparent that the specially marked tags are same as the related tags. Tim -- Tim Larson West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] Bugs, Features and a users experience :)
W.B. McNamara wrote: It does if you click on the + sign itself rather than the term. I do this all the time myself. That's a good usability point. Half the time I do this, too, basically seeing the + foo as a single unit rather than a + and a foo, no matter how many times I make the mistake. I do think it needs a larger target than just the +. Since these are the related tags, and the full tag list is just below, my thought would also be that these links would lead to currentTag+relatedTag. I understand that some people would want to see _only_ the related tag, though. It's pretty simple, but would it help to wrap the plus sign, and/or slightly increase the space between it and the associated tag? E.g.: [+] foo [+] bar [+] foo [+] bar I think that would help make them into distinct entities for me, any other thoughts? Putting a no-break space in the link on both sides of the + would make it a bigger target, without making it seem cluttered. Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] One question about related tags
Mislav wrote: In addition, a hypen character can't be an operator (yahoo-software) because tons of people are using it for phrases (e-book programming to-read). That's not the end of the world. You'd have to convert them all to underscores, or camelCased, or something, and email the users of the change to improve the functionality and user experience of del.icio.us. Personally, my most wanted boolean operator for del.icio.us is tag union. It would open a load of possibilities. The greater variety of set operations, the better. Delicious can only benefit from it, IMO. Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] dead horses and shared accounts
Michael Stillwell wrote: On 24/02/06, Joshua Schachter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're working privacy and groups right now -- finally getting ahead of the growth curve in terms of hardware so we have someplace to redo schemas and all that. Excellent! Will this make it possible for e.g. the nytimes to have a nytimes del.icio.us user, under which they would tag all their articles, which I could then trust? I would very much like to be able to do searches like site:nytimes.com author:natalieangier. As you know, I'd love to be able to search by site and author, as well. :) Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] Feature Request: Search doesn't includeoption to edit
Mislav wrote: Oh, please don't migrate this to a yahoo group! I'm a member of several and I simply can't stand all the advertising appended to each e-mail... in large discussions with quoting it creates noise bigger than the discussion itself :( Surely there is a solution to maintaining a clearer discussion group... Yeah, there needs to be a heuristic that limits the lines of advertising = the lines of message content. :) I've seen some lists that are like that too - just sick with ads. Tim ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] Re: Feature Request: Search doesn't includeoption to edit
joshua wrote: There's absolutely zero chance of that one. Any other ideas? We have to migrate off the hardware that is running the list in the next few weeks, unfortunately. What are people's objections to a Yahoo list? I can think of two: 1. Advertising spam appended to messages. 2. Having to sign up for a Yahoo account to subscribe to the list. I'd hope that it would be possible to work with Yahoo to get around the first point. It's not like you're just another list/group hosted by Yahoo - stuff discussed here is going to improve a Yahoo service. Such lists ought to get a bit of preferential treatment, IMO. Regarding the second, I don't know how to resolve it. I hate having to create an account (anywhere, not just with Yahoo) just to join a list, when all that's needed is my email address. I don't like the idea of anyone aggregating all my info together (they can do it anyway, but I'm not going to cooperate), and I know many people agree with me. Are there other objections? Are there real suggestions for circumventing them, or making them more palatable? Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] feature suggestion/request for discussion
John Sullivan wrote: I really don't want every page I tag that happens to be hosted on a university's server to be tagged with the name of the university even though it has nothing to do with the university. Neither do I want every geocities page or blogger page to be tagged with geocities or blogger. This would add more noise to my tags. It would make it harder for me to find, for example, articles that are _about_ geocities or blogger, where I wanted to use those tags as indicative of the subject matter. It also waters down the effectiveness of small features like tag completion. I've always imagined, and thought I'd stated (but regretably not in the original post), that this feature would be at the users' OPTION. If I hadn't made that clear, I apologize. My bad. If you don't want domain tag spam, you won't get it. Those that would find it useful could have it without it bothering you at all. I see it as a system: type tag that wouldn't exist in your regular tag space at all - no noise whatsoever. I already choose to tag with the domain name when I feel it's useful. Surely at least part of the point of tagging is the fact that everyone can have a schema that works well for them. The job of the system should be to get out of the way, to enable that creativity. Over and over again we see people writing to the list with the schema that they personally use, and wanting to make it the system default. Absolutely not. But when a feature can benefit a large segment of the userbase without impacting anybody else, why not add the capability? Autotagging is one idea that could enhance the productivity/usefulness of del.icio.us for those that CHOOSE to use it. del.icio.us's policy does not rely on thinking they know better than me what I want. Instead, it facilitates my ability to do what I want. You are asking them to implement something that would actually shrink the sphere of creativity in order to fit with an approach that works for you. Absolutely not. Del.icio.us could facilitate my ability to do what I want (tag every entry with its domain) too, without bothering those (like yourself) who prefer otherwise. This is not a shrinking of the creative sphere, it is an expansion of it. This is what I thought was great about the five suggestions I posted. Either the impact of the enhancement was completely optional, or completely transparent to those that chose not to make use of them. All five could be added today and you could keep using del.icio.us exactly as you did yesterday. BUT if sorting differently would help you, you could do that; if autotagging author/domain would be helpful, it would be there; if you wanted to incorporate the title in a comment, you'd be able to. Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] feature suggestion/request for discussion
Chris Lott wrote: I'm not into autotagging either, but the function of seeing all links I have from a domain could be interesting. Where in the UI it would belong, or if it could just be a search function or maybe a greasemonkey extension... I don't know. If I have dozens or hundreds of bookmarks in a tag and I'm looking for one I vaguely recall, that I happen to remember I found on xyz.com, it would be nice to narrow to the intersection of tag and domain. All domain autotagging is, at a fundamental level, is a way to make this possible. It doesn't have to be implemented as a literal tag! You've already got the domain (in the URL), it should be possible to take the intersection of some tag(s) with that domain. That's all. It would be interesting to see which domains of my collection (as well as across del.icio.us in general) are bookmarked most heavily. But that would be a by-product in my opinion, not the primary use. Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] feature suggestion/request for discussion
Chris Lott wrote: but it seems much better handled by search (efficient) than paging through a list of links to get to the middle of the alphabet! _If_ you happen to be one of those people that intuitively uses searches. Not everyone is. Some people see a list, that's supposed to contain what they're looking for, and will begin to scan it. Another issue here has been addressed by others - the previous/next UI for paging is inadequate. The system knows what page you're on, you should be able to directly jump to page 10 of 20 (for example) to get to the middle of a list. Another thought: perhaps it also has to do with bookmark volume? Sorting also implies a desire/ability to scan the entire corpus for what one is seeking, since alphabetical sort by title (unlike, say, by domain name or tag) provides no other useful contextual data. That only works for pretty small data sets. Just because it works best for sets of 20 or so is a reason not to provide the ability? There are always going to be people visiting del.icio.us for the first time. They're going to be used to the other way of doing it. Why not provide them mechanisms they are familiar with? Do they _harm_ delicious somehow? If not, what is the resistance to something so simple? Reverse chrono is a completely non-useful organization in the general application. (OK, I can think of one specific application in which it makes sense: a what's new view. But then I probably only care about the 10 most recent, or the past day or week of entries, not the entire list.) Alpha has at least a marginal usefulness. Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] feature suggestion/request for discussion
ivan santiesteban wrote: This has been interesting. I like Timothy's push for more automatic tags. We already have system:filetype:, so it's not something entirely new. As microformats grow these things could work really well for specific uses. I think the only things you have to decide are a) wether you want your system to pull this information automatically, to ask the user to include a special system tag, or to do something in between; and b) how to make this tags visible. As for actual implementation of autotags, I'm not positive it's actually possible. I haven't gotten to researching if javascript can be written that will grab the correct elements, assuming they exist. I assume it would be, though, with modern browsers. If a user decides he wants to use autotagging, he'd have to recreate/edit his bookmarklets to have a form that grabbed the extra stuff. Or I suppose the bookmarklet could be standard, but the extra data gets dumped on submission if the user's prefs say he doesn't want it. Domain autotagging would be done on the server, since that info is already passed in the URL. Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] feature suggestion/request for discussion
Vinay Augustine wrote: I'm not sure how useful metadata is. I mean, metadata that's important to you (like the webpage URL) isn't important to me at all. How does Joshua decide which pieces of metadata to include? Certain metadata are nearly universal of any resource you'd look up. Just for starters: it probably has a title, it obviously has a location, it has a creator, it has a creation date, and there's the date you found it. You're also asking for the original title to be kept, but can't *you* keep it? maybe the description field something like (original title) // (my title) But then it's not the title. It doesn't look or act like a title. Having pre- and post-title fields for title extension/commentary allows this to be displayed in the title line where it looks and feels like a title, while still retaining the original title. I'm willing to concede I'm probably in the minority on the title thing, but I discovered it to be a much more convenient way for me to store my bookmarks. It works the way I think. Most people are probably happy with a simple comment field. I prefer working the title into my comment, if you will, and using a direct quote where others would put their comment. Very small addition, much greater utility for those that choose to use it, no headache for those that choose not to. It's tempting to add metadata for things that one person finds useful, but a lot of people find a large number of things useful; I think del.icio.us is excellent in this regard because it presents a fairly minimal interface that one extend in ways that are personally meaningful. How can a user extend it? I can't add custom fields to the database to store extra bits of info. As mentioned above, overloading one field with multiple types of data isn't an optimal solution. Given that you've given your coworker the title, I imagine that he'd just search for it. Most people use search as a last resort when there's comprehensible navigation. If a user sees a list of links that ought to contain what he's looking for, he's going to start scanning it. Alpha order aids in that. I don't agree. If there are aspects of the page that I'm going to use as tags anyway, why not give the option to have it done automatically? Autotag it! There's been discussion on this list about autotagging, and I was under the impression that it was fairly taboo -- besides (referencing above), what tags should be automatically added? you mention URL (which would be easy enough, though I don't see the use -- you can even just type cnn or sourceforge as a tag; I imagine the I know I can enter it myself - my point is that it's already known (in the URL) and it would save time if I could tell the system to automatically extract it consistently, so it's not always up to me to remember to do it. It's something I'd always want, but might forget to do. Same idea with the author - I'd love for all my links to be searchable by author, especially if that (potentially) were done automatically. tag-recommendation system would help you out there after a while) and author. With the latter, how do you extract the author? There's no simple, universally used author metadata; what do you do if it's not there? I mentioned the meta name=author tag. Not widely used, but it's there, at least for HTML. If a service like Delicious started to make use of it, it could drive more people to use it correctly. All the people who have been thoughtfully including such metadata for years in hopes of the semantic web would be vindicated when it finally becomes useful. Yes, but what about all the *other* meta data he would add at people's requests? I don't disagree that metadata is useful, but it doesn't seem overly onerous to tag those pieces of metadata that you find useful, especially given that it might change from URL to URL. Of course people are going to have different opinions. But I think there can be a sensible middle ground. Currently, Delicious provides the bare minimum for a bookmarking system, plus a comment field. I think it could do much more with little effort, and be a better utility for so doing. Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] Re: feature suggestion/request for discussion
James Miskiewicz wrote: I think Tim may have inadvertently stepped into a previous discussion; I skimmed a couple months of archives before I jumped in but didn't notice anything. My apologies if I'm trodding all over a core Delicious philosophy here. it's been said in the past that Joshua does not like autotagging ANYTHING because he feels that influences the tag distribution in bad ways (for example, letting publishers specify tags for a post in a bookmark on del.icio.us! link on their website.) I generally agree. Eh, possibly. I contend there are bits of publisher-supplied data that many users will routinely find useful. I'm not suggesting you let publishers dictate the tags you use (the fact that most search engines ignore keywords is sufficient proof it would be a bad idea) - but it can be a cooperative effort. Take the most useful of what the publisher provides, and retain the freedom to add your own. However there are system generated tag-like things (I don't want to call them tags) - see http://del.icio.us/tag/system:filetype:mp3 for example. I would appreciate a similar system:site:cnn.com autotag. I do not want it cluttering up my tag lists/bundles, however (which is possibly what Joshua meant below about if I added the meta stuff ... to your account, you'd find it vastly annoying.) I completely agree. I wasn't aware of the system:filetype thing. I tried to explain that I saw autotags (for domains at least) being in a different space than normal tags, though still acting much the same. Tim Larson wrote: I find myself wondering, were you a librarian, if you would dump the title and author cards from the catalog. You'd still have subject (tag) cards. No offense intended - that's just what it sounds like to me. But a librarian is organizing for other people; your delicious To an extent, I am too. I refer people to my Delicious bookmarks. Obviously I want the system to be useful to me specifically, but I still want it to be useful in the general case. Alpha sorting and author autotagging are two things that I believe would be useful in both ways. bookmarks are organized by you for you. The aggregate effect of everyone's bookmarks is interesting, but I believe it's a side effect. Granted many people use it as delicious' primary (or very important secondary) function, but that is up to the user; delicious doesn't make many assumptions at all about the pages you tag. I think Joshua is arguing against filling your card catalog with stuff he thinks is useful, preferring to let you organize it however you want. And some people do tag sites (see http://del.icio.us/tag/cnn) as they think it is useful. I can understand his point of view. Sure, I can tag the author or the domain manually. But if it is, as I believe, something that many people would see as a useful tag, and could be done automatically, why not provide that capability for those who want it? You don't have to assume much about a page to guess it will have a creator and a location. Tim Larson wrote: Some bits of author/publisher-supplied meta-information _are_ going to be useful to the reader. Yes, but it also invites abuse... I don't think that system:site:cnn.com can be abused, but publisher supplied tags could. Yes...that goes back to why META keywords failed. But like I said, a few metadata fields are universal, and quite useful. Tim Larson wrote: These don't have to be forced on users - if they don't want autodiscovery/autotagging of those things, they don't have to use it. This invites complexity in the interface, which delicious also avoids. While I appreciate as many options in my programs/websites as possible, I know many people do not or are confused by them, so I can appreciate the desire to keep it simple. So you hide the complex bits, just like any well-designed UI. Windows and MacOS don't plop every single sysconfig tool right on the desktop - you have to take steps to access them. If you don't bother, you can still use the basic interface. But if you want to customize things, you can. Thanks for the great system Joshua, and for the discussion everyone! I have to second that. I've already heard several good ideas mentioned that never crossed my mind. Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] feature suggestion/request for discussion
Larson, Timothy E. wrote:
I mentioned the meta name=author tag. Not widely used, but it's
there, at least for HTML. If a service like Delicious started to make
use of it, it could drive more people to use it correctly. All the
people who have been thoughtfully including such metadata for years in
hopes of the semantic web would be vindicated when it finally becomes
useful.
Author autotagging for Firefox 1.5, using the META tag above:
javascript:(function(){if(document.getElementsByName){var authors=;var
metaArray=document.getElementsByName(author);for(var
i=0;imetaArray.length;i++){var
author=metaArray[i].content;if(authors.length0) authors+= ;authors +=
author.replace(/
/g,);}}location.href='http://del.icio.us/ChristTrekker?v=3url='+encod
eURIComponent(location.href)+'title='+encodeURIComponent(document.title
)+'tags='+encodeURIComponent(authors)})()
Delicious even recognizes the tags parameter and drops the values
right into place.
Tim
--
Tim Larson
a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with
West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices
___
discuss mailing list
discuss@del.icio.us
http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
RE: [delicious-discuss] feature suggestion/request for discussion
Joshua Schachter wrote: 1. Title extension. In my own link collection, I like to expand upon the title a bit as a memory-jogger for myself, perhaps incorporating This is why the title is editable. But then the original title is not preserved. Just because the reader thinks he can improve the title does not mean the author's title for the page is not important as well. 2. Sorting. Having the display sortable only reverse chronologically by date added is horrible. There should be options for alpha by title and popularity (num users linking to page), at least. Does alpha ordering provide anything that search does not? This keeps coming up and I'm not entirely sure it's all that sueful. A search is a filter. I don't always want to filter. I just prefer an alternate presentation of the same information. When scanning a list, alphabetical order is a more natural style for many people. Maybe it's just conditioning because so many lists are alpha sorted, but if it works for people, why not have it? Since it keeps coming up, maybe it is a hint that many people would find it useful even if you personally do not. 3. Display. I like to get more on a page, preferably without scrolling. How about an option to not display descriptions - rather, put them in the title attribute of the link so they appear when on mouse hover? Interesting idea. 4. Domain autotagging. I think it would be useful if the domain of the story were automatically used as a tag, so a user could quickly If it's automatic, then it is not a tag. I don't agree. If there are aspects of the page that I'm going to use as tags anyway, why not give the option to have it done automatically? Autotag it! Traditional web searches rely completely on what the producer has supplied - the content. Bookmarks give a limited ability for the user to have some input on his browsing experience. Delicious greatly enhances this ability by letting the user easily categorize and share the bookmarks. I think the ideal bookmarking system as a collaboration between the content producer and content consumer. The producer makes something worth noticing, the consumer takes notice and bookmarks it. There must be something inherently interesting/noteworthy in the content, otherwise the consumer wouldn't bookmark it. Why not take advantage of some of the things the producer has already included in the content when you bookmark it? There must be _some_ overlap between what the producer and consumer think is noteworthy about the content, right? That is to say, certain tags the consumer will use are, or could be, inherent in the page. For example, the domain. People's minds are funny things - sometimes I recall I read an interesting article last week on cnn.com, but darned if I can remember what it was about. Sure, I _could_ put cnn.com as a tag, but if the system could (optionally) do this automatically for me, why not? It sure would be convenient to go to delicious/user/cnn.com to quickly find the page I remembered. This would be very useful to me. In implementation, this autotag would have to be checked on updates to make sure the domain didn't change (maybe the original link went 404 and it moved to a new host) but that wouldn't be terribly hard - or maybe handle it as a virtual tag based on the saved URL, which is obviously always correct. It might be useful to flag these as part of a different tag space so that the user-chosen tag cloud/list doesn't become overwhelmed, though - easily done if it's a virtual tag. Another example, the author's name. I bookmark articles and commentary, and could put CalThomas or DanKnight as a tag for their pages. But if the page already knew this information (and it usually does, just not often in a standardized way), it would be awfully slick if that tag was done for me since I'm going to use it anyway. Many pages have a link rel=author tag generally used for email addresses. It seems to have a partner in meta name=author that is perfect, currently in limited use. As popular as delicious is becoming, it could drive the usage of this meta tag to increase as it would finally do something useful. Another example, the author-supplied keywords from the meta tag. Maybe a good starting point for the consumer's own tags is the producer's tags. I probably wouldn't use this myself, but some people might find this useful in addition to the current recommended tags. You can search for domains, though. How do I search for a domain? I tried putting a domain I've bookmarked from (like cnn.com) in the search box, but didn't come up with anything. This isn't nearly as nice an interface as just clicking tag names. Simplicity is why I use delicious. If I wanted to search, I'd go to Google. 5. Favicons. If domain autotagging is done, it wouldn't be too hard to store the URL to a site's favicon, if it has one, and then display We don't currently fetch anything on a store. This
RE: [delicious-discuss] feature suggestion/request for discussion
Joshua Schachter wrote: Perhaps I we should just let people star items? It'd certainly be a simpler UI... I've always been against it, though; why bookmark a bad item? I dunno. Not good-vs-bad, but good-vs-great. Or a 1-2-3 rating, where 1 is your standard good enough to bookmark, 2 is if you're interested in this topic, definitely take a look at this, and 3 would be OMG why hasn't everyone already bookmarked this one!?!? I don't think I'd rate my bookmarks (I'd let popularity serve as a rating) but some people might. Tim -- Tim Larson a Contract Staffing Specialists consultant with West Corporation, Interactive TeleServices ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[delicious-discuss] feature suggestion/request for discussion
Hi list, I was almost ready to start writing my own bookmark manager last year when I was introduced to del.icio.us - how fortunate for me! It provides an easier-to-use interface than I'd envisioned, which is a major point in its favor. However, it lacks a few key features which I think would be really nice to have. If the code were open-source, I'd have added them already, as they are small compared to the hard work that has already been done. As it's not, I'm throwing them out here for discussion. I couldn't find a TODO list posted anywhere on the site, so please forgive me if these have already been debated to death or are slated to be added. 1. Title extension. In my own link collection, I like to expand upon the title a bit as a memory-jogger for myself, perhaps incorporating the title into my one-liner commentary about the page. Before you suggest description, I don't use the description for this, because that's where I like to save a short quote from the page so that in case my link goes 404, I can search for a copy elsewhere. For example, today's CNN headline Postal shooter's former neighbor found dead might appear in my collection as California Postal shooter's former neighbor found dead next day in home where only the original title is hyperlinked. 2. Sorting. Having the display sortable only reverse chronologically by date added is horrible. There should be options for alpha by title and popularity (num users linking to page), at least. If the above idea were adopted, the sort by title should allow by actual page title (the link itself) as well as the user-expanded title. 3. Display. I like to get more on a page, preferably without scrolling. How about an option to not display descriptions - rather, put them in the title attribute of the link so they appear when on mouse hover? 4. Domain autotagging. I think it would be useful if the domain of the story were automatically used as a tag, so a user could quickly pull up all links he has from cnn.com, for instance. You wouldn't be able to edit these tags, of course, as they are implicit in the URL, but otherwise should work pretty much the same. 5. Favicons. If domain autotagging is done, it wouldn't be too hard to store the URL to a site's favicon, if it has one, and then display the favicon for the domain in the bookmark entry. One of the primary uses of favicons is bookmark lists in the browser because they help with visual identity; they'd be useful in the same way for bookmark lists on the web. Naturally, this should be optional for those who feel it slows their page loads too much. OK, that's it. What do you think? Thanks, Tim -- Tim Larson ___ discuss mailing list discuss@del.icio.us http://lists.del.icio.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss
