[Zen] Re: Buddhism and Sexism
If for simplicity heterosexuals only are considered, it is the opposite sex. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! billsm...@... wrote: What 'other sex'? ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@ wrote: Will experiencing kensho-satori affect a zenist's deep inner relationship to the other sex? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@ wrote: Buddhism and Sexism Can There Be Buddhist Gender Equality? http://buddhism.about.com/od/becomingabuddhist/a/sexism.htm http://buddhism.about.com/od/becomingabuddhist/a/sexism.htm
[Zen] Re: Buddhism and Sexism
ED, I saw Chris responded with the same message as mine, but his was a Chris response and mine is - well, my response. The message is the same: just treat people as people and refrain from automatically putting them into some classification. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: If for simplicity heterosexuals only are considered, it is the opposite sex. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@ wrote: What 'other sex'? ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@ wrote: Will experiencing kensho-satori affect a zenist's deep inner relationship to the other sex? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@ wrote: Buddhism and Sexism Can There Be Buddhist Gender Equality? http://buddhism.about.com/od/becomingabuddhist/a/sexism.htm http://buddhism.about.com/od/becomingabuddhist/a/sexism.htm Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Buddhism and Sexism
ED and all other nonZen members, I looked at the dialogues below and I wouldn't be surprised if Bill had been somewhat bewildered by the line of questioning 1. In Zen, there are a lot of unspoken teachings which many who follow don't habitually articulate. One reason for this is because it prevents the seekers from attaching to actual instructions to the last letter. To have such instructions implanted in somenone's brain could end in disaster if such teachings are ever applied to everything and anything without discernment Everyone can deny it all they like, but WE ALL just love specific instructions and directions...as if we're still children who can't possibly be left to our own devices. And here comes along something called Zen, which allows not only much freedom, but also maturity 2. Satori/Kensho/Whatever is nothing more than a by-product of constant zazen(seated meditation) practise. According to monk Shunryu Suzuki, it has been said that this 'satori' as such was experienced by the Buddha, but which was not permanent and therefore never absolute, irrespective of what the dictionary says of the meaning of the word. This means that suffering as such for a human being comes at any time, and no enlightenment will prevent future heartbreaks from taking place in the future. Dualistic thinking is indeed very hard to get away from, but I'm not one to question Suzuki-sensei's knowledge. I've never been a monk, but he was 3. There will always be this unavoidable misunderstanding between academics and the actual Zen followers. Those who have the Zen teachings burning within them actually go through the experiences that academics are merely reading, or speculating about. Reading about it(Zen) and intellectualizing all the contents are not enough and will never be enough, which is why the 2 sides I now speak of will look like they're both speaking to each other in 2 different languages everytime there's an exchange To the academics and others who love to 'research' Zen...without the experience, you'll end up with nothing but all sorts of assumptions and imaginations. It doesn't make your positions in relation to Zen somewhat lesser. There's no talk here of superiority, or inferiority. Academics/researchers are as they are, as are Zen followers within their own realms 4. Besides the academics/researchers, I will now also speak of other curious 'watchers', as such. Many outside of the Zen realms have this thing about Buddhism such as - it is so lovely and peaceful(until Buddhist monks in Japan and Korea are seen on national TV news burning down each other's temples, with people inside them) - a beautiful religion that teaches love and peace(yep, watch 'em burnin' temples) - the sutras and chants are so lovely and magnificent, so I'll do them as well so I can also become Buddhist(*giggles*..so funny!) - I want all this satori/kensho/whatever, then I can be some sort of super being who knows everything(*Mel shakes his head in disbelief*) - Hey, how do you get satori?(*Mel just fainted in disbelief*) Dissecting Zen or enlightenment under a microscope doesn't work. I'm sure the academic questions and statements(not only here, but everywhere else on or offline) are sincere and well-meant, but I personally don't know how far they will get as far as full understanding of Zen are concerned. But then again, perhaps people are just as happy making assumptions, which is also fine if that works for them just my thoughts Mel --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: If for simplicity heterosexuals only are considered, it is the opposite sex. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@ wrote: What 'other sex'? ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@ wrote: Will experiencing kensho-satori affect a zenist's deep inner relationship to the other sex? --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@ wrote: Buddhism and Sexism Can There Be Buddhist Gender Equality? Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Buddhism and Sexism
Hello Mel, In this forum, we speak to each other in koans. In peace, ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632...@... wrote: ED and all other nonZen members, I looked at the dialogues below and I wouldn't be surprised if Bill had been somewhat bewildered by the line of questioning 1. In Zen, there are a lot of unspoken teachings which many who follow don't habitually articulate. One reason for this is because it prevents the seekers from attaching to actual instructions to the last letter. To have such instructions implanted in somenone's brain could end in disaster if such teachings are ever applied to everything and anything without discernment Everyone can deny it all they like, but WE ALL just love specific instructions and directions...as if we're still children who can't possibly be left to our own devices. And here comes along something called Zen, which allows not only much freedom, but also maturity 2. Satori/Kensho/Whatever is nothing more than a by-product of constant zazen(seated meditation) practise. According to monk Shunryu Suzuki, it has been said that this 'satori' as such was experienced by the Buddha, but which was not permanent and therefore never absolute, irrespective of what the dictionary says of the meaning of the word. This means that suffering as such for a human being comes at any time, and no enlightenment will prevent future heartbreaks from taking place in the future. Dualistic thinking is indeed very hard to get away from, but I'm not one to question Suzuki-sensei's knowledge. I've never been a monk, but he was 3. There will always be this unavoidable misunderstanding between academics and the actual Zen followers. Those who have the Zen teachings burning within them actually go through the experiences that academics are merely reading, or speculating about. Reading about it(Zen) and intellectualizing all the contents are not enough and will never be enough, which is why the 2 sides I now speak of will look like they're both speaking to each other in 2 different languages everytime there's an exchange To the academics and others who love to 'research' Zen...without the experience, you'll end up with nothing but all sorts of assumptions and imaginations. It doesn't make your positions in relation to Zen somewhat lesser. There's no talk here of superiority, or inferiority. Academics/researchers are as they are, as are Zen followers within their own realms 4. Besides the academics/researchers, I will now also speak of other curious 'watchers', as such. Many outside of the Zen realms have this thing about Buddhism such as - it is so lovely and peaceful(until Buddhist monks in Japan and Korea are seen on national TV news burning down each other's temples, with people inside them) - a beautiful religion that teaches love and peace(yep, watch 'em burnin' temples) - the sutras and chants are so lovely and magnificent, so I'll do them as well so I can also become Buddhist(*giggles*..so funny!) - I want all this satori/kensho/whatever, then I can be some sort of super being who knows everything(*Mel shakes his head in disbelief*) - Hey, how do you get satori?(*Mel just fainted in disbelief*) Dissecting Zen or enlightenment under a microscope doesn't work. I'm sure the academic questions and statements(not only here, but everywhere else on or offline) are sincere and well-meant, but I personally don't know how far they will get as far as full understanding of Zen are concerned. But then again, perhaps people are just as happy making assumptions, which is also fine if that works for them just my thoughts Mel --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=7LsLTgYt806e-Ij0-IdIzek-jfX2gpO103TFHHisys\ vJWIthjQdJT_4yVA8baFTxDC5zzGmHbGf6tmnlDBeMPLAK , ED seacrofter...@... wrote: If for simplicity heterosexuals only are considered, it is the opposite sex. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=7LsLTgYt806e-Ij0-IdIzek-jfX2gpO103TFHHisys\ vJWIthjQdJT_4yVA8baFTxDC5zzGmHbGf6tmnlDBeMPLAK , Bill! BillSmart@ wrote: What 'other sex'? ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=7LsLTgYt806e-Ij0-IdIzek-jfX2gpO103TFHHisys\ vJWIthjQdJT_4yVA8baFTxDC5zzGmHbGf6tmnlDBeMPLAK , ED seacrofter001@ wrote: Will experiencing kensho-satori affect a zenist's deep inner relationship to the other sex? --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=7LsLTgYt806e-Ij0-IdIzek-jfX2gpO103TFHHisys\ vJWIthjQdJT_4yVA8baFTxDC5zzGmHbGf6tmnlDBeMPLAK , ED seacrofter001@ wrote: Buddhism and Sexism Can There Be Buddhist Gender Equality?
[Zen] Re: Buddhism and Sexism
Bill, I say 'Where's the problem'?I say 'Yes and No.' I say it's 'both/and' AND/OR 'either/or' AND/OR 'neither/nor' in the 'Just THIS' mind. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! billsm...@... wrote: ED, I saw Chris responded with the same message as mine, but his was a Chris response and mine is - well, my response. The message is the same: just treat people as people and refrain from automatically putting them into some classification. ...Bill! If for simplicity heterosexuals only are considered, it is the opposite sex. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=LiWFC9gTRL8vix_eZ70HjpjeodK55Bra6c3XhNyiVr\ IO0txlTTZGhTUgusHAglA5Rn8pg92WUQdQ6J7fs2M1DZjq , Bill! BillSmart@ wrote: What 'other sex'? ...Bill! Will experiencing kensho-satori affect a zenist's deep inner relationship to the other sex? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=LiWFC9gTRL8vix_eZ70HjpjeodK55Bra6c3XhNyiVr\ IO0txlTTZGhTUgusHAglA5Rn8pg92WUQdQ6J7fs2M1DZjq , ED seacrofter001@ wrote: Buddhism and Sexism Can There Be Buddhist Gender Equality? http://buddhism.about.com/od/becomingabuddhist/a/sexism.htm http://buddhism.about.com/od/becomingabuddhist/a/sexism.htm
