Re: [Zen] Re: Note

[Maria Lopez]

DP;
 
It's very kind of you to apologise and write a post with your views as well 
your intentions.  From time to time someone amongst us call attention just 
bring the forum back to central theme which is zen.  In Monasteries, groups 
face to face this is done by the sound of the bell.  The sound of the bell is 
an invitation to the practicionerr to go back to themselves.  But in here we 
have to use the mail.  This call never is made to a single person alone but to 
the whole active participants.  It doesn't intend either to cut off anyone 
freedom of speech in any way.  It's only an awakening mail bell when we get 
carried away. 
 
Thank you for your kindnest of your post.
Mayka
 

--- On Wed, 6/10/10, DP  wrote:


From: DP 
Subject: [Zen] Re: Note
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 6 October, 2010, 20:41


  



Mayka, i apologize for my part in introducing the subject. I did not intend 
this to go this far. In fact, I regret that I'm contributing to the same thing 
I was upset about on other forums.

Originally I wanted to ask how to deal with my need to resolve these arguments, 
which are ultimately unresolvable. i should not have let it slip that it was 
specifically about religion, although it did have a zen component in that it 
dealt with my desire to know "the truth" and my resentment of people who 
claimed to know "the truth."

i have no intention of pushing religion or politics on anyone. However, I am 
naturally interest in the ways that religion and Zen intersect, and yes, how 
they affect politics, both in negative and positive ways. However, if the board 
prefers, I will not bring it up here.

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez  wrote:
>
> Hello all:
>  
> Whatever them has always welcome in this forum.  And that has made from this 
> forum a nice one to participate on.  However, it has been noticeable to me  
> that the forum is getting less zen and more chatting and religious, politics 
> themes.  That is gaining strenght and overtaking all the essence and energy 
> of just rare zen postings.  And this is kind of sad.  Discussions of all 
> kinds plus chatting are ok but if those discussions away of zen wave overtake 
> the forum, then what is left for the practicioners to share or even to 
> participate on it as the posting gets swallow by all the rest non zen 
> posting?.  There are religious boards for every religion, why not to become a 
> member there and do the posting over there?.  Just a thought.
> Mayka
>

Re: [Zen] Re: Note

[Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明]

 DP,

If I may share Chan perspective on these subjects...

Chan is a pure internal spiritual journey.  Because it is pure internal, 
it is difficult to truthfully be described by words.  Thus it is taught 
without words or formality.


Religion is an external display of the internal spirit.  It is a "form" 
which Chan does not get involved with.


All arguments are "forms" containing only impermanent and relative value.

Detach from all forms is the beginning of Chan practice.

:-)

Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org


On 10/6/2010 12:41 PM, DP wrote:


Mayka, i apologize for my part in introducing the subject. I did not 
intend this to go this far. In fact, I regret that I'm contributing to 
the same thing I was upset about on other forums.


Originally I wanted to ask how to deal with my need to resolve these 
arguments, which are ultimately unresolvable. i should not have let it 
slip that it was specifically about religion, although it did have a 
zen component in that it dealt with my desire to know "the truth" and 
my resentment of people who claimed to know "the truth."


i have no intention of pushing religion or politics on anyone. 
However, I am naturally interest in the ways that religion and Zen 
intersect, and yes, how they affect politics, both in negative and 
positive ways. However, if the board prefers, I will not bring it up here.


--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com , 
Maria Lopez  wrote:

>
> Hello all:
>
> Whatever them has always welcome in this forum.  And that has made 
from this forum a nice one to participate on.  However, it has been 
noticeable to me  that the forum is getting less zen and more chatting 
and religious, politics themes.  That is gaining strenght and 
overtaking all the essence and energy of just rare zen postings.  And 
this is kind of sad.  Discussions of all kinds plus chatting are ok 
but if those discussions away of zen wave overtake the forum, then 
what is left for the practicioners to share or even to participate on 
it as the posting gets swallow by all the rest non zen posting?.  
There are religious boards for every religion, why not to become a 
member there and do the posting over there?.  Just a thought.

> Mayka
>

Re: [Zen] Re: Note on Current Conversation and my favorite book.

[Ahmed]

Huai-chin? FREE?? Give me some links, please!

On 4/7/06, czqian3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  Huai-chin Nan's  buddhist writings in chinese are mostly available
> online for free :)
>
>
>
> 





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Re: [Zen] Re: Note on Current Conversation and my favorite book.

[Ahmed]

"However the training of buddhism teach us to be less attached to it,
whether the situation/state is good or bad and train us to view any
phenomena as  "equal/normal" , thus...thus..."

Yes! Thus, maximizing one's flexibility, one can finally and truly be able
to expressively contort in every way without attaching to any words or
doctrine and saying things in a different way suited for appropriate
audiences.

You have my full agreement, especially with the Zen-is-a-direct-route idea.
[I basically said what you just said in a waaay longer story-method in my
earlier post.]

P.S.: This is all expressed in "Measuring" (book originally mentioned).

On 4/6/06, czqian3 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>  well, just for some sharing. My shifu said that there are 3 basic
> zen meditation problems most people had, first one is having extreme
> stray thoughts , second is falling asleep during meditation, third
> is fallen into dull emptiness, which is very dangerous. Dull
> emptiness (wu-ji) in chinese is a state that one does not know if
> there is anything that happen at all, lost of ability to
> discriminate/to know what's going on around and there is a high
> chance that external demons may possess the human body.
>
> Using skandhas as a tool of expressing the teachings, there is a
> saying that if one has not got pass the conceptual skandha barrier,
> one should not hide himself in the mountain but to practise with
> other zen fellow and most importantly his/her shifu; if one has not
> got pass the formations/volitional skandha, one should not go for a
> retreat in his own little zen room. But if we have the 6th patriarch
> type of dhamrma root, all these are not really relevant.
>
>
> The great thing about zen compare to other meditation techniques is
> it is a direct path to break the conceptual skandhas barrier, and to
> the harder to express formation/volitional and consciousness skandhas
> (bcos we cannot really imagine what's that about) ; relative to
> other meditation techniques who need to get pass the form and
> feeling skandhas first.
>
>
> In my opinion, as a layman, we need to discriminate things/know
> what's happening in daily life. However the training of buddhism
> teach us to be less attached to it, whether the situation/state is
> good or bad and train us to view any phenomena as  "equal/normal" ,
> thus...thus...
>
>
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Ahmed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, I'm Ahmed. I think the questions we are talking about are
> pretty
> > important. Especially when I saw the word "skandha," I felt a need
> to
> > thoroughly explain the term since it is so deep. Especially when
> skandhas
> > are a neat classification system of the universe--all forms and
> movements,
> > body or mind--the small dictionary definition will not do. But it
> would take
> > a while to explain subsets and subsets of subsets . . . to map
> things out
> > would take a great book to guide the discriminative thinking of
> our mind.
> >
> >
> > [Please skip eight paragraphs if you agree with the usefulness of
> mental
> > discrimination, classification, organization and cutting the world
> into
> > pieces.]
> >
> >
> > Bill Smart, I think you would disapprove of my mental
> discrimination with me
> > on this point. "In fact the ONLY thing that is important is to sit
> (zazen),"
> > you replied once. Sitting is important but not ONLY.
> >
> > "Being knowledgeable or understanding things about zen, Buddhism,
> the
> > Dharma, Sutras, Taoism, Hindi, yoga, physiology, philosophy,
> etc..., are not
> > important at all.  They're fun, but not important."
> >
> > Can you tell me discrimination is not useful in saving lives, in
> planning
> > for the future, in discovering and solving interpersonal issues,
> and in
> > advancing science not only for better physical understanding but
> also
> > spiritual understanding and acceptance? What about for a job? Does
> one sit
> > down and get paid in this world?
> >
> > Sure, sitting unifies one with the universe so that one has
> greater energy
> > and capacity to understand. In fact, one MUST sit and BE in order
> to evolve
> > one's theoretical knowledge to insight. But it is hard to imagine
> that one
> > comes up with solutions magically from sitting.
> >
> > Once again, understanding the principles throughout the universe
> (of yin,
> > yang and their many products), can these be called unimportant to
> one's
> > mundane life and spiritual cultivation? True Buddhas must
> have "skillful
> > means," methods of teaching which take into account context,
> audience, and
> > environment. Buddhas must know of how the mind works (psychology)
> and the
> > positions of others (Hindu, Muslim, Christian, this-and-that
> philosopher
> > etc.) in order to compassionately guide him/her out or into a
> certain train
> > of thought. Buddhas do not rigidly sit there, teaching corpses to
> become
> > schizoids.
> >
> > I hope I have gotten my point across: mental discri

RE: [Zen] Re: Note on Current Conversation and my favorite book.

[Bill Smart]

On Friday, April 07, 2006 czqian3 posted:

>[...initial paragraphs snipped...] 
>In my opinion, as a layman, we need to discriminate things/know 
>what's happening in daily life. However the training of buddhism 
>teach us to be less attached to it, whether the situation/state is 
>good or bad and train us to view any phenomena as  "equal/normal" , 
>thus...thus...

Well stated.  I agree.  ...Bill!




Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today! 
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