RE: [ZION] Samoa Temple
Jim Cobabe: I wept when I learned of this sad news. Is something amiss in the Church, that the Lord would allow one of his temples to be destroyed? ___ It is sad, but I seriously doubt anything unusual is amiss. I think there was a construction accident. Larry Jackson Noel: When I start to get overconfident, I remind myself of Laman and Lemuel's perspective on the righteousness of the people. Quoting from 1 Nephi Chapter 17: we know that the people who were in the land of Jerusalem were a righteous people; for they kept the statutes and judgments of the Lord, and all his commandments, according to the law of Moses; wherefore, we know that they are a righteous people. Do we, today, suffer from the same lack of visual acuity? How hard is it for us, collectively, to see the need for repentence? If I read the scriptures correctly, I see a time in the future when the parable of the ten virgins will be fulfilled (DC 45). I read of a time when the 'vengence will come speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth... And upon my house shall it begin. (DC 112) For an answer I would have to look to God and the prophet. When I listen to President Hinckley, I hear a very positive message. I have to assume that each one of us must seek confirmation of that message from God that we are a righteous people and have favor in His eyes. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Samoa Temple
Noel B favored us with: For an answer I would have to look to God and the prophet. When I listen to President Hinckley, I hear a very positive message. I have to assume that each one of us must seek confirmation of that message from God that we are a righteous people and have favor in His eyes. President Benson said the whole Church was under condemnation because we don't properly value the Book of Mormon. Has that changed? I don't think so, but I suppose I could be wrong. When I hear glowing reports about the growth of the Church, and how well we are accepted by the world on the one hand, and hear about condemnation because of our disregard of the Book of Mormon I suffer from some cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is some resolution of the two, but on the surface they seem to contradict. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph. --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:53:08 -0800 John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Noel B favored us with: For an answer I would have to look to God and the prophet. When I listen to President Hinckley, I hear a very positive message. I have to assume that each one of us must seek confirmation of that message from God that we are a righteous people and have favor in His eyes. President Benson said the whole Church was under condemnation because we don't properly value the Book of Mormon. Has that changed? I don't think so, but I suppose I could be wrong. When I hear glowing reports about the growth of the Church, and how well we are accepted by the world on the one hand, and hear about condemnation because of our disregard of the Book of Mormon I suffer from some cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is some resolution of the two, but on the surface they seem to contradict. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] John, President Bensen is dead. What he said has no bearing anymore regarding the direction and present condition of the Church, let alone the future direction. This responsibility lies upon the shoulders of the current leadership. If the Church is still under condemnation for not reading the Book of Mormon, the Lord will tell us through his prophet. Otherwise, we are collectively in the clear. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
I think the church as a whole is paying a lot more attention to the Book of Mormon. I can't say what was happening before I joined it but I see a lot of emphasis on it. Failure to read it on an individual basis is not a collective matter. Stacy. At 11:44 AM 07/12/2003 -0500, you wrote: On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:53:08 -0800 John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Noel B favored us with: For an answer I would have to look to God and the prophet. When I listen to President Hinckley, I hear a very positive message. I have to assume that each one of us must seek confirmation of that message from God that we are a righteous people and have favor in His eyes. President Benson said the whole Church was under condemnation because we don't properly value the Book of Mormon. Has that changed? I don't think so, but I suppose I could be wrong. When I hear glowing reports about the growth of the Church, and how well we are accepted by the world on the one hand, and hear about condemnation because of our disregard of the Book of Mormon I suffer from some cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is some resolution of the two, but on the surface they seem to contradict. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] John, President Bensen is dead. What he said has no bearing anymore regarding the direction and present condition of the Church, let alone the future direction. This responsibility lies upon the shoulders of the current leadership. If the Church is still under condemnation for not reading the Book of Mormon, the Lord will tell us through his prophet. Otherwise, we are collectively in the clear. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Samoa Temple
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:53:08 -0800 John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Noel B favored us with: For an answer I would have to look to God and the prophet. When I listen to President Hinckley, I hear a very positive message. I have to assume that each one of us must seek confirmation of that message from God that we are a righteous people and have favor in His eyes. President Benson said the whole Church was under condemnation because we don't properly value the Book of Mormon. Has that changed? I don't think so, but I suppose I could be wrong. When I hear glowing reports about the growth of the Church, and how well we are accepted by the world on the one hand, and hear about condemnation because of our disregard of the Book of Mormon I suffer from some cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is some resolution of the two, but on the surface they seem to contradict. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] John, President Bensen is dead. What he said has no bearing anymore regarding the direction and present condition of the Church, let alone the future direction. This responsibility lies upon the shoulders of the current leadership. If the Church is still under condemnation for not reading the Book of Mormon, the Lord will tell us through his prophet. Otherwise, we are collectively in the clear. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] So, Paul, You are saying that no revelation given to a dead prophet is with merit? That the warning that President Benson gave, namely that we are still under condemnation for treating the Book of Mormon lightly, is of no current relevance? Did that injunction end with his death? Were we magically released from that condemnation when he died? I suffer from the same malady that John does. I read of the warnings in the scripture and strive to rationalize the current state of affairs in the church, nation, and world. I hang on the words of our current prophet and president to help understand the gap. I have heard that 9/11 could be construed as a message that God no longer is protecting this nation. We have discussed this matter at length on this list in the past. Could there be a message in the temple fire that we, as a church, should comprehend? I still think this is a valid question. I am reminded of Israel clamoring for a king so they could be like the other nations around them. I believe this is an example of the Lord giving the people what they want to receive and hear and see. The children of Israel made a choice which effected their ability to receive the word of the Lord. Could it be that President Hinckley is constrained in what he says because we, speaking collectively, don't want to hear harsh words? I, personally, think it is very dangerous to cry all is well and marginalize the warnings in the scriptures to our generation. Noel B // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
At 10:44 AM 7/12/2003, Paul wrote: John, President Bensen is dead. What he said has no bearing anymore regarding the direction and present condition of the Church, let alone the future direction. This responsibility lies upon the shoulders of the current leadership. If the Church is still under condemnation for not reading the Book of Mormon, the Lord will tell us through his prophet. Otherwise, we are collectively in the clear. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't agree. The Lord, who trumps all the prophets of God, past, present and future, first gave this revelation in 1832. Since that time Joseph Smith, who was the instrument through which the revelation came is dead and so is every other prophet except our current living prophet. Since Joseph Smith is dead, are we to believe that this revelation is no longer binding? I don't agree with your logic. President Benson said the condemnation was still in effect. I believe him. Just because President Benson is dead and no longer around does not mean the curse is dead. Silence from our current Prophet does not necessarily mean the curse is no longer in effect. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] The overall performance of the college graduates in the Convention of 1787 speaks forcefully for the proposition that Latin, rhetoric, philosophy, and mathematics can be a healthy fare for political heroes.Clinton Rossiter // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 14:12:11 -0600 Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 10:44 AM 7/12/2003, Paul wrote: John, President Bensen is dead. What he said has no bearing anymore regarding the direction and present condition of the Church, let alone the future direction. This responsibility lies upon the shoulders of the current leadership. If the Church is still under condemnation for not reading the Book of Mormon, the Lord will tell us through his prophet. Otherwise, we are collectively in the clear. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't agree. The Lord, who trumps all the prophets of God, past, present and future, first gave this revelation in 1832. Since that time Joseph Smith, who was the instrument through which the revelation came is dead and so is every other prophet except our current living prophet. Since Joseph Smith is dead, are we to believe that this revelation is no longer binding? I don't agree with your logic. President Benson said the condemnation was still in effect. I believe him. Just because President Benson is dead and no longer around does not mean the curse is dead. Silence from our current Prophet does not necessarily mean the curse is no longer in effect. Ok, ok. No need to roast me over the coals. ;-) What has President Hinckley said about this stuff during his Presidency? Have you thought of that? Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 15:39:10 -0500 Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] current Prophet does not necessarily mean the curse is no longer in effect. Ok, ok. No need to roast me over the coals. ;-) What has President Hinckley said about this stuff during his Presidency? Have you thought of that? Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] How about this? DC 58: 26 26. For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is acompelled in all things, the same is a bslothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward. val .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Samoa Temple
John W. Redelfs wrote: President Benson said the whole Church was under condemnation because we don't properly value the Book of Mormon. Has that changed? I don't think so, but I suppose I could be wrong. When I hear glowing reports about the growth of the Church, and how well we are accepted by the world on the one hand, and hear about condemnation because of our disregard of the Book of Mormon I suffer from some cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is some resolution of the two, but on the surface they seem to contradict. = Grampa Bill comments: Can a student be doing very well in school while at the same time be facing financial ruin? Can a saint be in failing physical heath while at the same time be near having his Calling and Election made sure? Can a dictator's political and military power be near the zenith while his family life is in tatters? I believe the two reports are measuring two different matters, both important but the spiritual health of the Church as measured by its disregard of the Book of Mormon being of immeasurably greater import. Apples and Oranges... no dissonance. There's a lott'a tares in that there wheat field. Oh well, the Master will clean them (us?) out when the field is ripe. Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
[ZION] Samoa Temple
I wept when I learned of this sad news. Is something amiss in the Church, that the Lord would allow one of his temples to be destroyed? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Samoa Temple
Jim Cobabe: I wept when I learned of this sad news. Is something amiss in the Church, that the Lord would allow one of his temples to be destroyed? ___ It is sad, but I seriously doubt anything unusual is amiss. I think there was a construction accident. Larry Jackson The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
