Re: [ZION] God's love
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 18:59:49 -0400 Jon Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Paul Osborne wrote: > > Anyway, God loves me, and that's final. > > And I love you too, Paul. That makes two! > > Noj Thanks. It's always nice to hear that and especially my Zion friends. :-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] God's love
Paul Osborne wrote: > Anyway, God loves me, and that's final. And I love you too, Paul. That makes two! Noj // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] God's love
Hmmm ... exactly what does it mean for God to love all sinners (i.e., everyone living today, at a minimum), but he does not love them unconditionally? Either He does not love all of them because of some condition, or He loves all of them. You can't have it both ways. Of course, it may be true that He does not love all of His children, but that is not correct either. I myself think that Jim, if I understood what he wrote, is correct. There is more than one kind of love, just as there is more than one kind of "heaven." It would only make sense that there would be a higher kind of love for someone who did his best to live up to all of God's laws, and brought thousands of God's children unto repentance, than there would be for an anti-Christ. So, although the fact that God loves me is undoubtedly wonderful, it also mast be faint praise. Jon - Original Message - From: "Stacy Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] God's love > Yes, he loves all sinners--just not unconditionally. > > Stacy. > > At 11:28 PM 05/28/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > >I can attest that, based upon my own personal experiences and confirmations > >and outright manifestations of God, that God does indeed love me, a sinner. > > > >Jon > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Gerald Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 9:20 PM > >Subject: [ZION] God's love > > > > > > > Some on the list have mentioned in the past that God does not love > > > sinners, and tried to use recent statements on "unconditional" love to > > > prove their point. > > > > > > I'd like to quote Elder Neal Maxwell, perhaps the current scriptural > > > scholar among the apostles, and definitely the most eloquent and prolific > > > writer amongst them. In his book "These things shall give thee > > > experience", he states the following concerning God's "perfect love": > > > > > > "God loves us all-- saint and sinner alike -- with a perfect and > > > everlasting love. We have His love, if not His approval. It is our love > > > for Him that remains to be developed. " > > > > > > IOW, God loves all, but His approval is dependent upon our obedience and > > > faithfulness. > > > > > > > > > K'aya K'ama, > > > > > > Gerald (Gary) Smith > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html LDS Evidences, > > > Family History, Food Storage, etc. > > > > > > > >/// / > >// > > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > > >/// / > >/ > > > > > > > > > >/// /// > >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > >/// // > > > > > > > > > > > >--- > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 03/10/2003 > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] God's love
Right on Gary. That was a bull'seye. Paul O On Sat, 31 May 2003 19:45:24 -0500 Gerald Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I believe they are discussing different ideas, but arriving at the > same > conclusions overall. Elder Nelson is trying to refute the idea of > God > unconditionally accepting everything we do, simply because he loves > us. > He will not exalt us in our sins, and we are erring if we think so. > > Elder Maxwell is teaching that God loves us period, however in the > same > chapter he discusses that God is not always accepting of our > actions, nor > will he bless us in our wickedness. > > The difference is terminology and what each is trying to express. > Kind of > like a verse in the scriptures saying "by grace ye are saved" which > is a > true, albeit, incomplete statement. It is correct, but can be taken > in > different interpretations if not taken in its proper context. So it > is > with Elder Nelson's statement. He has an issue with calling God's > love > unconditional, because it sounds like God is totally accepting of > all our > actions, good or evil. But I'm sure he would not disagree with > Elder > Maxwell's term of "perfect" love, which allows God to love us all, > but > not necessarily be accepting of what we do or have become. > > K'aya K'ama, > > Gerald (Gary) Smith > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html LDS > Evidences, > Family History, Food Storage, etc. > > > George: > Gary, I accept Elder Maxwells comments with all my heart, as that is > the > way > I have always beloved. However how does this reconcile with Elder > Nelsons > article in the Ensign where he appears to say something very > different? > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] God's love
Gary, I accept Elder Maxwells comments with all my heart, as that is the way I have always beloved. However how does this reconcile with Elder Nelsons article in the Ensign where he appears to say something very different? George - Original Message - From: "Gerald Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 7:20 PM Subject: [ZION] God's love > Some on the list have mentioned in the past that God does not love > sinners, and tried to use recent statements on "unconditional" love to > prove their point. > > I'd like to quote Elder Neal Maxwell, perhaps the current scriptural > scholar among the apostles, and definitely the most eloquent and prolific > writer amongst them. In his book "These things shall give thee > experience", he states the following concerning God's "perfect love": > > "God loves us all-- saint and sinner alike -- with a perfect and > everlasting love. We have His love, if not His approval. It is our love > for Him that remains to be developed. " > > IOW, God loves all, but His approval is dependent upon our obedience and > faithfulness. > > > K'aya K'ama, > > Gerald (Gary) Smith > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html LDS Evidences, > Family History, Food Storage, etc. > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] God's love
> > > Some on the list have mentioned in the past that God does not > love > > > sinners, and tried to use recent statements on "unconditional" > love to > > > prove their point. > > > > > > I'd like to quote Elder Neal Maxwell, perhaps the current > scriptural > > > scholar among the apostles, and definitely the most eloquent and > prolific > > > writer amongst them. In his book "These things shall give thee > > > experience", he states the following concerning God's "perfect > love": > > > > > > "God loves us all-- saint and sinner alike -- with a perfect > and > > > everlasting love. We have His love, if not His approval. It is > our love > > > for Him that remains to be developed. " > > > > > > IOW, God loves all, but His approval is dependent upon our > obedience and > > > faithfulness. > > > > > > > > > K'aya K'ama, > > > > > > Gerald (Gary) Smith I agree with elder Maxwell's interpretation of God's love. I believe God will love me no matter how I act or what I do. I don't care if anyone says otherwise as I simply won't believe it. People are open to their own interpretations on spiritual matters and it doesn't make them right all the time just because they are an apostle. Gee-wiz, am I breaking the charter rule?? Anyway, God loves me, and that's final. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] God's love
I agree wholeheartedly. After all, he sends his sun to rise on the just and on the unjust and makes rain to fall too. Stacy. At 08:20 PM 05/28/2003 -0500, you wrote: Some on the list have mentioned in the past that God does not love sinners, and tried to use recent statements on "unconditional" love to prove their point. I'd like to quote Elder Neal Maxwell, perhaps the current scriptural scholar among the apostles, and definitely the most eloquent and prolific writer amongst them. In his book "These things shall give thee experience", he states the following concerning God's "perfect love": "God loves us all-- saint and sinner alike -- with a perfect and everlasting love. We have His love, if not His approval. It is our love for Him that remains to be developed. " IOW, God loves all, but His approval is dependent upon our obedience and faithfulness. K'aya K'ama, Gerald (Gary) Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html LDS Evidences, Family History, Food Storage, etc. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 03/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] God's love
Yes, he loves all sinners--just not unconditionally. Stacy. At 11:28 PM 05/28/2003 -0400, you wrote: I can attest that, based upon my own personal experiences and confirmations and outright manifestations of God, that God does indeed love me, a sinner. Jon - Original Message - From: "Gerald Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 9:20 PM Subject: [ZION] God's love > Some on the list have mentioned in the past that God does not love > sinners, and tried to use recent statements on "unconditional" love to > prove their point. > > I'd like to quote Elder Neal Maxwell, perhaps the current scriptural > scholar among the apostles, and definitely the most eloquent and prolific > writer amongst them. In his book "These things shall give thee > experience", he states the following concerning God's "perfect love": > > "God loves us all-- saint and sinner alike -- with a perfect and > everlasting love. We have His love, if not His approval. It is our love > for Him that remains to be developed. " > > IOW, God loves all, but His approval is dependent upon our obedience and > faithfulness. > > > K'aya K'ama, > > Gerald (Gary) Smith > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html LDS Evidences, > Family History, Food Storage, etc. > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 03/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] God's love
I can attest that, based upon my own personal experiences and confirmations and outright manifestations of God, that God does indeed love me, a sinner. Jon - Original Message - From: "Gerald Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 9:20 PM Subject: [ZION] God's love > Some on the list have mentioned in the past that God does not love > sinners, and tried to use recent statements on "unconditional" love to > prove their point. > > I'd like to quote Elder Neal Maxwell, perhaps the current scriptural > scholar among the apostles, and definitely the most eloquent and prolific > writer amongst them. In his book "These things shall give thee > experience", he states the following concerning God's "perfect love": > > "God loves us all-- saint and sinner alike -- with a perfect and > everlasting love. We have His love, if not His approval. It is our love > for Him that remains to be developed. " > > IOW, God loves all, but His approval is dependent upon our obedience and > faithfulness. > > > K'aya K'ama, > > Gerald (Gary) Smith > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html LDS Evidences, > Family History, Food Storage, etc. > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
