Re: [ZION] THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom
And I believe that as we grow in power and influence, that we will be feared by others, just as in Nauvoo, and attacked. The more we humble ourselves before the Lord, the better we will be able to resist these attacks, but they will come. Jon Stacy Smith wrote: > I think that we will grow in power and influence and be a force to be > reckoned with but that it will take a few more years. We have to have a > very active base, and I don't believe that the majority of the people > listed on the rolls are active. > > Stacy. > > At 09:00 AM 10/27/2003 -0900, you wrote: > > >I have been reading THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom and I ran across > >an interesting statement on page 123: > > > >"And who can believe that the Mormons ever would have turned away from the > >practice of Celestial Marriage, if it were not for federal pressure? No > >one, least of all in Salt Lake City, will be much inclined to accept a > >religious critic's foretellings, but I cheerfully do prophesy that some > >day, not too far on in the twenty-first century, the Mormons will have > >enough political and financial power to sanction polygamy again. Without > >it, in some form or other, the complete vision of Joseph Smith never can > >be fulfilled." > > > >Harold Bloom writes this as an outsider. He is an unbelieving Jew, an > >"American gnostic." I find his statement interesting because I myself > >have come to the same conclusion for a number of reasons. What do you think? > > > > > >John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >=== > >"There is no place in this work for those who believe only > >in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > >news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley > >=== > >All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > >/// /// > >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > >/// // > > > > > > > > > > > -- > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom
I think that we will grow in power and influence and be a force to be reckoned with but that it will take a few more years. We have to have a very active base, and I don't believe that the majority of the people listed on the rolls are active. Stacy. At 09:00 AM 10/27/2003 -0900, you wrote: I have been reading THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom and I ran across an interesting statement on page 123: "And who can believe that the Mormons ever would have turned away from the practice of Celestial Marriage, if it were not for federal pressure? No one, least of all in Salt Lake City, will be much inclined to accept a religious critic's foretellings, but I cheerfully do prophesy that some day, not too far on in the twenty-first century, the Mormons will have enough political and financial power to sanction polygamy again. Without it, in some form or other, the complete vision of Joseph Smith never can be fulfilled." Harold Bloom writes this as an outsider. He is an unbelieving Jew, an "American gnostic." I find his statement interesting because I myself have come to the same conclusion for a number of reasons. What do you think? John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] THE AMERICAN RELIGION
I read the book long before I joined the church and had no opinions at the time. Glad to be back. Stacy. At 02:52 PM 11/06/2003 -0900, you wrote: Hey Ron, are you familiar with THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom? I've been reading it the last couple of weeks, and I find it fascinating that a Gentile (actually, he is an "unbelieving Jew") would state a conviction that 1. The Latter-day Saints will resume the practice of plural marriage in the first half of the 21st century. 2. The Latter-day Saints will establish a sovereign state in either part or all of the United States at about the same time. I have long felt that this would happen. I find it remarkable that such a renowned and worldly scholar would have come to the same conclusion. What do you think? John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "While we cannot agree with others on certain matters, we must never be disagreeable. We must be friendly, soft-spoken, neighborly, and understanding." (President Gordon B. Hinckley, October 2003) === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] THE AMERICAN RELIGION
> -Original Message- > From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2003 6:53 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [ZION] THE AMERICAN RELIGION > > > Hey Ron, are you familiar with THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold > Bloom? I've > been reading it the last couple of weeks, and I find it > fascinating that a > Gentile (actually, he is an "unbelieving Jew") would state a > conviction that< Once a Jew, always a Jew. HE is not a gentile. A secular Jew perhaps. But a Jew. > > 1. The Latter-day Saints will resume the practice of plural marriage in > the first half of the 21st century. Oy vey! I don't see any of current crop of leaders doing that, even if ACLU convinces the Supreme Court that monogamy infringes upon the right to freely practice one's religion. > 2. The Latter-day Saints will establish a sovereign state in either part > or all of the United States at about the same time.<< You mean like Vatican City? A possibility, but unlikely. If you're talking something grander, phooey. President Hinckley just got us into the main stream, more or less. I can't imagine that anyone at the top wants out. > I have long felt that this would happen. I find it remarkable > that such a > renowned and worldly scholar would have come to the same conclusion. > > What do you think?< If that's what he concluded, I think he's been spending way to much of his time talking to crackpots in mountains of Idaho and the outback in central Utah. RBS // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom
Well, Chet, other than your comments in the last paragraph, this is something that we agree on strongly. It seems that for us, Church is stronger than politics! Noj - Original Message - From: "Chet Cox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom > My feelings about the Principle and its semi-repeal (it's only sort of > repealed) is that if it DOES return before The Millenial, it will be > because the Lord says to renew it. If it doesn't return, it will because > the Lord says not to. It will have nothing to do with the church's > political power or lack thereof. If the Lord had wanted the Principle > continued in the 19th century, all the soldiers and all the governments > of the world couldn't have stopped it. I haven't given it a great deal > of thought beyond that. Perhaps the 19th century saints learned what > they needed to learn - they definitely learned to depend on each other, > and not on the outside world (something which I think we do far too much > of today). There's surely more to be revealed. > > Orson Scott Card wrote that many men willingly went to jail to support > the Principle then, and that many more would go to jail today to support > the Principle not being brought back. As a sick old man who can barely > keep up with one wife, count me among the latter. Only a much more > righteous generation than our generation could possibly keep this > principle without becoming corrupted -- as it seems several of the 19th > century saints were so corrupted. > > *jeep! >--Chet > "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you > are doing the impossible." > > On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:00:51 -0900 "John W. Redelfs" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I have been reading THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom and I ran > > across > > an interesting statement on page 123: > > > > "And who can believe that the Mormons ever would have turned away > > from the > > practice of Celestial Marriage, if it were not for federal pressure? > > No > > one, least of all in Salt Lake City, will be much inclined to accept > > a > > religious critic's foretellings, but I cheerfully do prophesy that > > some > > day, not too far on in the twenty-first century, the Mormons will > > have > > enough political and financial power to sanction polygamy again. > > Without > > it, in some form or other, the complete vision of Joseph Smith never > > can be > > fulfilled." > > > > Harold Bloom writes this as an outsider. He is an unbelieving Jew, > > an > > "American gnostic." I find his statement interesting because I > > myself have > > come to the same conclusion for a number of reasons. What do you > > think? > > > > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > === > > "There is no place in this work for those who believe only > > in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > > news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom
My feelings about the Principle and its semi-repeal (it's only sort of repealed) is that if it DOES return before The Millenial, it will be because the Lord says to renew it. If it doesn't return, it will because the Lord says not to. It will have nothing to do with the church's political power or lack thereof. If the Lord had wanted the Principle continued in the 19th century, all the soldiers and all the governments of the world couldn't have stopped it. I haven't given it a great deal of thought beyond that. Perhaps the 19th century saints learned what they needed to learn - they definitely learned to depend on each other, and not on the outside world (something which I think we do far too much of today). There's surely more to be revealed. Orson Scott Card wrote that many men willingly went to jail to support the Principle then, and that many more would go to jail today to support the Principle not being brought back. As a sick old man who can barely keep up with one wife, count me among the latter. Only a much more righteous generation than our generation could possibly keep this principle without becoming corrupted -- as it seems several of the 19th century saints were so corrupted. *jeep! --Chet "Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible." On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:00:51 -0900 "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I have been reading THE AMERICAN RELIGION by Harold Bloom and I ran > across > an interesting statement on page 123: > > "And who can believe that the Mormons ever would have turned away > from the > practice of Celestial Marriage, if it were not for federal pressure? > No > one, least of all in Salt Lake City, will be much inclined to accept > a > religious critic's foretellings, but I cheerfully do prophesy that > some > day, not too far on in the twenty-first century, the Mormons will > have > enough political and financial power to sanction polygamy again. > Without > it, in some form or other, the complete vision of Joseph Smith never > can be > fulfilled." > > Harold Bloom writes this as an outsider. He is an unbelieving Jew, > an > "American gnostic." I find his statement interesting because I > myself have > come to the same conclusion for a number of reasons. What do you > think? > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "There is no place in this work for those who believe only > in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
