[ZODB-Dev] Re: Ruby/Smalltalk OODB
Hi there, Christian Theune wrote: this might be interesting to ZODB users and developers: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/302177093/article.pl What I find interesting is that Python has had such a thing for about a decade (the ZODB), and a mostly vaporware announcement in the Ruby world makes such a splash. The future is already here folks. So, what's the status of the zodb.zope.org project to actually promote it better? It's easy to know what to write on the homepage, just go to the Ruby buzz, translate the hype in terms of the ZODB, tone it down some, and add that it's been battle-tested for a decade. (I realize GemStone is also battle-tested, but the Ruby certainly is not) Regards, Martijn ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: Ruby/Smalltalk OODB
Martijn Faassen wrote: Hi there, Christian Theune wrote: this might be interesting to ZODB users and developers: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/302177093/article.pl What I find interesting is that Python has had such a thing for about a decade (the ZODB), and a mostly vaporware announcement in the Ruby world makes such a splash. That's because most things Zope are not very good with PR. The future is already here folks. So, what's the status of the zodb.zope.org project to actually promote it better? It's easy to know what to write on the homepage, just go to the Ruby buzz, translate the hype in terms of the ZODB, tone it down some, and add that it's been battle-tested for a decade. I assume you mean http://new.zope.org/projects/zodb ? It's there, waiting for the rest of that site to be finished. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman[EMAIL PROTECTED]It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: Ruby/Smalltalk OODB
Hi there, On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Wichert Akkerman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Christian Theune wrote: this might be interesting to ZODB users and developers: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/302177093/article.pl What I find interesting is that Python has had such a thing for about a decade (the ZODB), and a mostly vaporware announcement in the Ruby world makes such a splash. That's because most things Zope are not very good with PR. I know what the reason is. I just want to point it out again. Not being good at it is not an excuse not to get better. It can be done, it's just that it's not been a priority in people's minds. The future is already here folks. So, what's the status of the zodb.zope.org project to actually promote it better? It's easy to know what to write on the homepage, just go to the Ruby buzz, translate the hype inI terms of the ZODB, tone it down some, and add that it's been battle-tested for a decade. I assume you mean http://new.zope.org/projects/zodb ? It's there, waiting for the rest of that site to be finished. Progress! Good. Some criticisms next: The site is nothing compared to what it could be concerning documentation. It's currently consists of mostly a huge amount of empty pages of documentation that will intimidate anyone who wants to work on this site. I strongly recommend doing it the other way around: mine the existing documentation and assemble this into a site, and don't intimidate people with a lot of empty structure. It also holds back the whole new.zope.org project itself, as lots of empty pages will make people wait to publish the site until it's all filled, meaning it will never actually happen. Is anyone actually approaching ZODB developers to fill in pieces? The only way any ZODB site is going to improve if people on this very mailing list will actually do something about it. It won't be me. Finally, I still think this project is big enough to warrant its own site, independent from the rest of zope.org. If you did this, you wouldn't need the red letters that this can be used independently from Zope, it'd be implicit, and people would really trust that this is indeed the case instead of the nagging suspicion I think they'll end up with now. What I would do (but I'm not in charge of this and don't want to be) is to put up a zodb.zope.org with what's there now, give everybody who wants to add documentation access to add content, and then nag until it contains some. Probably the current set of two real pages would be enough to embaress people into adding more. Regards, Martijn P.S. Wichert, I know you're doing good work. I'm just hoping someone on this mailing list is actually listening and wants to coordinate this effort (and then actually does it). ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: Ruby/Smalltalk OODB
Wichert Akkerman wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: What I find interesting is that Python has had such a thing for about a decade (the ZODB), and a mostly vaporware announcement in the Ruby world makes such a splash. That's because most things Zope are not very good with PR. Smart people are usually very demanding with themselves, which leads to the bad pattern of not advertizing our good stuff because it is not perfect. Time to change our patterns, and advertize stuff before they are perfect ;-) -- Godefroid Chapelle (aka __gotcha) http://bubblenet.be ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: Ruby/Smalltalk OODB
On Mon, 2008-06-02 at 15:45 +0200, Martijn Faassen wrote: Lots documentation on the ZODB is available, scattered around the web. Let's gather it into one place for starters. So, please, someone actually do something about this rotten situation? Finally? Please? Please? Regards, Martijn P.S. This is not a complaint to all the people who are doing something. We just need a bit of effort from some more people to get this done. I'm feeling some guilt pangs here. :-) I benefit from Zope and the ZODB especially. I know that I am a little better at PR than I am at the deep technical aspects (not very good) so I will initially gather (I already have lots of bookmarks) all the info I can find and start building something coherent out of it. Can I have a few minutes of attention to emails now and then from experts? I am NOT good at the flashy layout and graphics stuff that attracts the attention of people. I will needs some help in that respect. But I can organize information into something that new-comers can learn from. Regards, Tim -- Timothy Cook, MSc Health Informatics Research Development Services LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/timothywaynecook Skype ID == timothy.cook ** *You may get my Public GPG key from popular keyservers or * *from this link http://timothywayne.cook.googlepages.com/home* ** signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: Ruby/Smalltalk OODB
Tim Cook wrote: On Mon, 2008-06-02 at 15:45 +0200, Martijn Faassen wrote: Lots documentation on the ZODB is available, scattered around the web. Let's gather it into one place for starters. So, please, someone actually do something about this rotten situation? Finally? Please? Please? Regards, Martijn P.S. This is not a complaint to all the people who are doing something. We just need a bit of effort from some more people to get this done. I'm feeling some guilt pangs here. :-) I benefit from Zope and the ZODB especially. I know that I am a little better at PR than I am at the deep technical aspects (not very good) so I will initially gather (I already have lots of bookmarks) all the info I can find and start building something coherent out of it. Can I have a few minutes of attention to emails now and then from experts? Of course. Tech people are good at finding faults in documentation, but not good at writing documentation. I am NOT good at the flashy layout and graphics stuff that attracts the attention of people. I will needs some help in that respect. But I can organize information into something that new-comers can learn from. We already have a complete design with proper layouts on new.zope.org. We just need more content. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman[EMAIL PROTECTED]It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Re: Ruby/Smalltalk OODB
On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 12:31 PM, Tim Cook [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I benefit from Zope and the ZODB especially. I know that I am a little better at PR than I am at the deep technical aspects (not very good) so I will initially gather (I already have lots of bookmarks) all the info I can find and start building something coherent out of it. Great! Can I have a few minutes of attention to emails now and then from experts? I'm not a ZODB expert, but I'll do what I can to help you. I am NOT good at the flashy layout and graphics stuff that attracts the attention of people. I will needs some help in that respect. organize information into something that new-comers can lear Hopefully the already underway design effort will help there. -- Benji York Senior Software Engineer Zope Corporation ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
