Re: [Zope] Stopping a

2001-01-17 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 1/17/01 10:24 PM, Tres Seaver wrote:
> > "Jonothan Farr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I also submitted it as
> > a patch to the distribution but it was refused. Something about a new 
> dtml-in
> > implementation that I haven't seen materialize in the last 5 versions 
> or so.
>
>The sentiment against "DTML-as-scripting-language" also makes
>introducing more control structures difficult to sell;  I don't
>buy that, myself, but have to listen to folks who do.

Some 8 months ago, I thought "break" was missing from  and wrote 
to this list. Within hours, clever solutions were suggested, the most 
impressive of which was Jonothan's patch mentioned above. I'm happy to see 
Tres saying that he doesn't buy the anti-DTML-scripting sentiment. To me, 
it makes little sense to create a language and then make it hard to 
use.  Even less so when refusing an offered change that is more of a 
correction than it is an extension. Now just don't get me started on 
"_['index-whatever']" :-)

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Re: [Zope] ???

2001-01-16 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 1/16/01 06:49 PM, Edwin Martin wrote:
>Hello,
>
>How can I use an undefined variable in an expression?
>
>I made a DTML document which gets parameters from the URL,
>like "/nieuw?maand=1".
>
>But I also want it to work when no parameters are given.

How about

   


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Re: [Zope] Calling other frames (OT)

2001-01-15 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 1/16/01 08:58 AM, Curtis Maloney wrote:
>As for this frame problem... seems like you're voiding the best (IMHO) use of
>frames, which is to prevent reloading of portions of the page.  Otherwise I
>just render all the objects into elements of an 'uber-table'...

I agree with Curtis about frames providing the wonderful ability to reload 
part of the page without reloading and redrawing the whole mess. But... the 
frame most likely to be reloaded is the one with the content (as opposed to 
the navigation, advertisement, and other decorative frames) and if you 
don't reload the frameset then you can't bookmark that particular content. 
What to do about that?




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Re: [Zope] log file.

2001-01-11 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 1/11/01 12:25 PM, Oleg Broytmann wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Jason C. Leach wrote:
> > Is the Zope log file in Common Log File Format?
>
>Yes. You can run every standard log files analyzer on it.

Using analog (http://analog.cx) against my Zope 2.2.2 logs, I found that 
the standard analog definition of the Common Log File Format didn't exactly 
match the Z2.log format. Specifically, Zope produces a host address 
followed by a colon, which confused a few of analog's reports. I currently 
use the following in my analog.cfg file...

LOGFORMAT (%S: %j %u [%d/%M/%Y:%h:%n:%j] "%j%w%r%wHTTP%j" %c %b "%f" "%B")
LOGFORMAT (%S: %j %u [%d/%M/%Y:%h:%n:%j] "%j%w%r" %c %b "%f" "%B")



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RE: [Zope] Design/DTML question

2001-01-10 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 1/10/01 01:22 PM, Timothy Wilson wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Jan 2001, Dennis Nichols wrote:
> > Or, if you insist that dates flow down the columns like I do, you could 
> use
> > this untested revision of Max's solution
>   
>
>This doesn't seem to work. The if statement only evaluates to true the first
>time through the loop.

Because the objects in the loop had no 'id' attribute? In any case, here's 
a complete tested example:





   
 
   
 
        
 
 
   
 
   




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RE: [Zope] Design/DTML question

2001-01-10 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 1/10/01 04:44 PM, Max Møller Rasmussen wrote:
>From: Timothy Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> >Right now, I've got the dates stored in a TinyTable. I can iterate through
> >that list and generate the links, but I can't figure out how to display the
> >table in two columns.
>
>   

Or, if you insist that dates flow down the columns like I do, you could use 
this untested revision of Max's solution:


   
 
   
 

 
 
   
 
   


Gosh, wouldn't it be nice to have a sequence-midpoint ? But then somebody 
would surely want a sequence-first-quartile and so on :-)


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[Zope] IEMethod (was: Can Zope ... )

2001-01-09 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 1/9/01 08:33 AM, Olaf Zanger wrote:
>Smith Ray schrieb:
>
> > * Allows non technical people to create content plus add users / managers
> > etc without any HTML knowledge or knowledge outside of the package.
>product: IEMethod
>wysiwyg even in internet explorer.
>really great! check it out

I give up, what and where is IEMethod? Zope.org search turns up nothing.



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Re: [Zope] Newbie Questions

2001-01-08 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 1/8/01 02:32 PM, Alex Reid wrote:
>- I am creating a 'form' method so I don't have to create separate forms for
>INSERT and UPDATE actions. This works, only how do I tell Zope to ignore the
>fact that  doesn't exist when in INSERT mode? It is
>there in the value="" parameter for the edit mode to pre-populate the
>element.





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[Zope] why I don't use popen2 any more

2000-12-20 Thread Dennis Nichols

In the for what it's worth department...

Using Linux (RH 6.2), Zope 2.2.2, Python 1.5.2

I wanted to run a unix command from my External Method that I wrote using 
Python. Digging around in Zope archives and other sources, I came up with a 
method that worked, of which this is a fragment:

 import popen2

 (r, w) = popen2.popen2('somecommand')
 w.write(commandinput)
 w.close()
 s = r.read()
 r.close()

However, this had the nasty side effect of leaving  processes 
around. I discovered one instance on the web of someone having this same 
problem using Python but not Zope-related. No solution was given.

I *think* the really bad thing about these processes (called zombies?) is 
that they may have certain resources, such as files, held open. And they 
are said to stay around until the process that created them dies itself.

The fix seems to be easier than the original solution. Replace all of the 
above with

 import commands

 s = commands.getoutput('echo ' + commandinput + ' | somecommand')

Presto, no more defunct processes. Hopefully a more stable Zope. Keen 
observers will note the security risk if commandinput contains arbitrary 
input from users. Wasn't true for me but it might be for you.

A curiosity: the description in Python Essential Reference says getoutput 
uses os.popen2() to execute the command, but I was too lazy^H^H^H^H busy to 
investigate further.


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[Zope] The inverse of REQUEST.set is ??

2000-12-04 Thread Dennis Nichols

I can do

   

Having done that, I'd like to be able delete 'something' and I do NOT mean just

   

I want it gone! Come on, humor me... is there a good way to do this?

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[Zope] Re: DC and the PTK?

2000-11-29 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 11/29/00 03:42 PM, ethan mindlace fremen wrote:
>Dennis Nichols wrote:
>
>>At 11/28/00 11:34 AM, albert boulanger wrote:
>>
>>>Whether to go with portal products from Plumtree or iPlanet.
>>
>>If this implies that you are considering using Zope's PTK, then you 
>>should  be aware of this: You can *not* get commercial support from 
>>Digital  Creations for PTK because PTK is not a released product. If you 
>>think you  may need such support before PTK gets to 1.0, then you had 
>>best not use the  PTK. But that's no reason to not use the rest of Zope.
>
>
>This needs to be clarified.   We actively do consulting with the PTK.
>If you want to enter into a consulting contract with Digital Creations 
>that involves the PTK, that's not a problem.
>
>If you decide you want to use the PTK yourself, there exists a mailing 
>list and a product tracker. (see http://www.zope.org/Products/PTK ) The 
>PTK is under heavy development and is not a full release yet, so that does 
>need to be taken into account if you wish to use it yourself.

What Ethan says, however true it may be, is contrary to my experience. I 
worked on developing a site based on PTK for several months and was within 
a month of going live, but had problems I could not solve, either alone or 
with the help of the mailing lists. I contacted DC via email, explained 
what my problems were, and asked how to arrange for consulting time. That 
was 11 weeks ago, on 10 Sept 2000. The very next day I received an email 
from Gary Graham ([EMAIL PROTECTED], Director, Sales & Marketing) stating:

"PTK is a 0.01 release and not commercially supported yet. Zope is
commercially supported yet. Zope.org is the best PTK source at
present until we are able to release a commercially supportable
version."

Of course, PTK wasn't a 0.01 release at that point, but the message was 
clear. That caused me to (a) look for a substitute not using Zope, of which 
I found nothing worth considering, and (b) expend an extra two months 
redeveloping the site, still using Zope but not using the PTK. This caused 
substantial lateness in the project launch as well as considerable 
additional expense.

As you might imagine, I was none too pleased at not being able to obtain 
consulting in September. To hear that consulting really was available isn't 
about to make me any happier!

So Ethan, what is the story here?


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Re: [Zope] Factoids for supporting zope

2000-11-28 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 11/28/00 11:34 AM, albert boulanger wrote:
>From: "Chris McDonough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >   Ah.  Well, my opinion is that it'd be fairly dangerous to make the 
> assertion
> >   that (as great as they both are) Zope and the Zope community can "make up
> >   for" the other half of the capital they need to develop the software they
> >   want.  So what's the decision they're trying to make?  Whether to 
> develop at
> >   all?
>
>Whether to go with portal products from Plumtree or iPlanet.

If this implies that you are considering using Zope's PTK, then you should 
be aware of this: You can *not* get commercial support from Digital 
Creations for PTK because PTK is not a released product. If you think you 
may need such support before PTK gets to 1.0, then you had best not use the 
PTK. But that's no reason to not use the rest of Zope.

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[Zope] Zope, squid, the Host header

2000-11-25 Thread Dennis Nichols

The "How-To: Configuring Squid as an Accelerator for Zope" 
(http://www.zope.org/Members/htrd/howto/squid) by htrd doesn't entirely 
work for me and/or is over my head! My goal is to use Squid as an http 
accelerator in front of zope (using zserver, no apache) on the same 
machine. Secondary goal is to be able to access Zope directly also, but 
this is much less important. An alternate How-To by itamar 
(http://www.zope.org/Members/itamar/Squid) requires the use of SiteAccess, 
which I would like to avoid.

Squid seems to be running OK (listening on port 8070, connecting to zope on 
port 8080) but wrestling with zope about the Host header has not yet 
produced a winner. Specifically, the How-To says:

"If you will be always be accessing this Zope server through the 
accelerator then the easiest solution is to configure Zope to ignore the 
value of this header. Specify HTTP_HOST=www.myhost.com as either a 
command-line parameter to z2.py, or as an environment variable."

I translate this to mean I could set and then export an environment 
variable that in my case would be HTTP_HOST=www.myhost.com:8070 since 
that's where the server should appear to be to the browser client. For 
whatever reason, this is not effective. I can tell because zope still works 
fine directly on port 8080 (through port 8070 I get the requested document, 
no images, and the baseref is still at port 8080). Inspection of 
HTTPRequest.py shows that it does a

  if have_env('HTTP_HOST'):
   host = strip(environ['HTTP_HOST'])
   hostname, port = splitport(host)

and sees www.myhost.com:8080. Specifying the HTTP_HOST= on the command line 
has the same (non-) effect. I'd be pretty happy if I got either of those to 
work. I'd be even happier if I got the following to work, also quoted from 
the htrd How-To:

"A better solution is to get Squid to rewrite the header to the correct value:
   1. Compile squid using --disable-internal-dns.
   2. Add a mapping from the name of your public server to
  the IP address of your Zope server in /etc/hosts
   3. If you are running the Zope server on the same machine
  as the accelerator then:
  1. Change the http_port line in squid.conf to bind
 only on the public network interface.
  2. Use the -w switch to Z2.py to get Zope to bind to
 different network interface (possibly a loopback interface).
 Remember to change httpd_accel_host in squid.conf too.

(Thank you to Henrik Nordstrom for showing me that solution.)"

But I really don't understand this method...
   1. OK, I know how to do the compile
   2. /etc/hosts seem to map the other way, from the IP address
  of whatever to a name and some aliases. Does this mean that
  I should have a line 111.222.111.222 myhost.com myhost
  or is something else implied.
   3.1 meaning  "http_port myhost.com:8070" ?
   3.2 this means?

All help sincerely appreciated.


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Re: [Zope] DTML source

2000-11-23 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 11/23/00 01:38 PM, Tom Deprez wrote:
>Are there some sites which publish there DTML source(structure)? I'm
>particulary looking on how several navigation, menu, ... structures are
>implemented in Zope.

I use the following DTML Method (probably shouldn't be done in dtml) to 
produce a vertical, indented menu where folders are expanded to subfolders 
only if you're in one of the subfolders. Three custom folders are used to 
build the site (Category-Top, Category-Middle, and Category-Bottom). Each 
folder has a menu_entry property. A folder appears in the menu only if its 
menu_entry is non-blank. If you are currently in Pop Culture/Reviews/Books, 
the menu looks like this:

Ask the Experts
College
Pop Culture
Quiz
Reviews
   Books
   Movies
   Music
Trends
Sports

Here's the dtml. It's called display_menu and is recursive. Replace 
home_id_here with the id of the site's base folder. The base folder does 
not appear in the menu display.

  



  


  

  



  
   0">

  
  &dtml-menu_entry;

  
  

  




  

  

Not my finest piece of coding, but maybe it will help.

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Re: [Zope] Pseudo E-Mail Address validation

2000-11-21 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 11/21/00 04:27 PM, Martin Winkler wrote:
>For a subscription tool of a mailing list I'd like to quick-check the 
>e-mail address our users type.

As a check on whether an email address *looks* OK, I use the following 
External Method. If ICANN really approves TLDs that are other than 2 or 3 
characters long then the {2,3} will have to be changed.

Warning: Some mail software between you and me may break up lines in the 
code. There are two executable lines, one starts with "m =" and the very 
next line starts with "return". There are no blanks in the r'...' string.



import re

def wellformedEmail(self, address):
 """ return true if email address appears to be well formed """
 m = 
re.search(r'^[_a-z0-9-]+(\.[_a-z0-9-]+)*@([0-9a-z][0-9a-z-]*[0-9a-z]\.)+[a-z]{2,3}$', 
address, re.IGNORECASE)
 return m != None and m.group() == address


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Re: [Zope] overriding manage_beforeDelete in a CatalogAware Product

2000-11-17 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 11/17/00 09:04 AM, Andy McKay wrote:
> > But I'm confused about how to get rid of the index entry upon delete...

>You should just be able to do "self.manage_beforeDelete(..)" since you have
>inherited all CatalogAware's methods. Make sure you have CatalogAware as
>your first (left most) item in your classes inheritance.

This might be right, but I didn't try it because next Andy said:

>Do you really need to set the catalog again? Isnt that already set in your
>class?

I think I get a big "Well, duh!" here. Of course, if I do a 
"self.manage_editCataloger(...)" in my product's __init__ routine, that 
sets the catalog for the rest of the object's existence, not just the 
__init__ routine. And so I don't have to set it again in any edit routine, 
nor do I have to worry about the object's deletion.

Tested and working. Many thanks.

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[Zope] overriding manage_beforeDelete in a CatalogAware Product

2000-11-16 Thread Dennis Nichols

I think I need help in overriding the manage_beforeDelete method from 
CatalogAware. Just to be sure I'm asking the right question, here's the 
background:

I have a Product (in Python, not TTW) whose instances get cataloged in a 
separate ZCatalog called CommentCatalog. My product's class inherits from 
CatalogAware and other classes and can successfully index itself by calling 
thusly in the __init__ routine:

 self.manage_editCataloger('CommentCatalog')
 self.index_object()

Reindex also works just fine.

But I'm confused about how to get rid of the index entry upon delete. I 
think I need to set the catalog name and then call the inherited 
manage_beforeDelete routine. So I tried this:

 def manage_beforeDelete(self, item, container):
 "Be sure we unindex ourselves from our special catalog"
 self.manage_editCataloger('CommentCatalog')
 self.CatalogAware.manage_beforeDelete(item, container)

Not too surprisingly, the code throws an "AttributeError: CatalogAware" 
into the Stupid Log File and doesn't remove the object from CommentCatalog. 
Of course I don't understand what the correct incantation is, so I'm 
appealing for guidance.

Zope 2.2.2, Python 1.5.2, RH 6.2, etc

Thanks!

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[Zope] re-releasing mysqlUserFolder 0.5 ??

2000-11-02 Thread Dennis Nichols

[EMAIL PROTECTED], vladap (who is listed as the author) -

Just before zope.org's Data.fs developed that short circuit a day or two 
ago, there was a new revision of mysqlUserFolder released (0.5.0 if I 
remember correctly). I'd like to try it out if we could get it back on the 
Zope site.

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Re: [Zope] Zope.org down?

2000-11-01 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 11/1/00 03:22 PM, Phil Harris wrote:
>Subject says it all

Well, not here but it does seem to have fallen back one or more days.

I'm also curious about the zope.org site performance. Zope is said to 
capable of a million hits per day on commodity hardware, yet zope.org 
receives only about 20% of that on its busiest days. This would not be 
remarkable except that the response times from zope.org seem to usually be 
10 seconds or so. I am on a T-1 line and 13 hops and 80ms from the zope.org 
server.

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Re: [Zope] Re: [Zope-book] Re: [Zope] Zope Book Beta

2000-10-31 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 10/31/00 11:08 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>For example; I have HTML help versions _and_ printed copies of
>the - outdated - Zope docs, and one of each from the actual
>howto-collection, and I'm using them both.

Wolfgang - How about putting up your HTML help version of the 
howto-collection? That would be very cool. Thanks!

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Re: [Zope] Hosting?

2000-10-26 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 10/26/00 03:39 PM, J. Atwood wrote:
>Try http://www.rackspace.com.
>
>You can start off with a 600 MHz, 128 MB Ram, 30 GB EIDE drive for about
>$300 a month. They have great support and bandwidth and claim to be the
>largest installed base of RH Linux. They also scale pretty well. I have
>about 10 boxes with them for about year now.

Although attractive at the low end, the rackspace price seems to jump 
rapidly. Move to a dual processor, 512MB, weekly backup and you arrive at a 
price about double what DellHost charges. So we're currently trying 
DellHost (which is somehow linked up with Interliant). While it is too 
early to give satisfaction rating, DellHost was not too swift 
administratively getting the server set up initially and we've had some 
bandwidth/connectivity issues.



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Re: [Zope] how to include Flash/SWF objects in Zope website?

2000-10-17 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 10/16/00 02:21 PM, Fred Yankowski wrote:
>Thank you both for the help.  File objects are just the ticket (but it
>turns out that Image objects work nearly as well).  For the record,
>here's what I did:

In order to provide alternate content and/or detect which level of Flash 
player is present, you might want to also include the free Moock "fpi" 
(f.lash p.layer i.nspector) found at 
http://www.moock.org/webdesign/flash/detection/moockfpi/



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[Zope] fmt=structured-text seems wrongish

2000-10-09 Thread Dennis Nichols

Not to throw stones, just trying to understand.

WRT 

It makes sense to me to use "fmt=something" when the something is an 
instruction on how to format a number or how to format the time. In those 
cases, I'm simply saying how I want the number or time to appear. But when 
I say "fmt=structured-text" then I'm saying how the item is stored.

Let's say that I've developed a Python product that contains description 
and now I've made an instance of it as myDoc. Within my site (application), 
I can ask that description be rendered this way...



By doing so, I'm telling Zope that whatever it finds in myDoc.description 
should be interpreted according to structured text rules from markup 
contained within myDoc.description itself. Now how does my application know 
that the myDoc object has structured text stored in description? Shouldn't 
the object itself know that? And shouldn't the fmt specification tell how 
myDoc.description is to be presented instead of how it is stored?

For example, let's say I can choose to store description as plain text, as 
structured text, or as html. Regardless of how it is stored, I might want 
to ask for it as:

fmt=raw   in case I want to edit it
fmt=html  in case I want to send it to a browser

and so on. Here, raw and html don't describe how to interpret the contents 
of myDoc.description, just how to give it back.

Pointers? I guess I can just fix this within my own product(s) by returning 
various fields in a manner something like this:

Stored as STX, return as HTML

 return str(StructuredText.HTML(self.description))

Stored as STX, return as raw, or stored as HTML, return as HTML

 return self.description

and so on...

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[Zope] AUTHENTICATED_USER (or something) making me crazy

2000-10-07 Thread Dennis Nichols

If I inspect REQUEST by inserting a  in my dtml I can see 
that AUTHENTICATED_USER is set to Anonymous User. Yet when I insert the 
following code, it never displays Guest. It takes the else branch and then, 
perversely, displays Anonymous User. Please point out my stupid mistake.


  Guest

  


Thanks. Maybe I shouldn't work on Saturdays. Zope 2.2.2 roughly, Python 
1.5.2, RH 6.2

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[Zope] BTreeFolder (easy?) questions

2000-09-27 Thread Dennis Nichols

1. Can I blithely use BTreeFolder in place of Folder without loss of 
functionality?

2. Can I successfully inherit from BTreeFolder in ZClasses (assuming that I 
uncomment registerBaseClass, which has been commented out in all 
BTreeFolder versions so far)?

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[Zope] Site Access and UserFolders in love?

2000-09-21 Thread Dennis Nichols

Since the standard root User Folder seems to hate being replaced by other 
much-needed-by-me types of UserFolders, I wondered if this would work well 
(using only ZServer) ...

1. Use SiteAccess to map mysite.com/ to mysite.com/my/ for all users and 
sub-managers.
2. Put a {MySQL,etc,smb,...}UserFolder in /my for all users and sub-managers.

3. Use SiteAccess to map big-guy.mysite.com to mysite.com/ for the site 
manager.
4. Use the standard root UserFolder only for the site manager login 
(index_html could redirect any errant users).

This would seem to keep those "other" UserFolders out of the root and allow 
the site manager to easily get at the manage views in the root.

I'm sorry to ask, but I've found that it takes me a long time to work 
through setting up and trying such things, and then not always knowing if 
it is sound or if I'll find the fatal flaw tomorrow.

Anybody tried this? Or have an opinion on its soundness?

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Re: [Zope] can I suppress newlines/whitespace in DocumentTemplates?

2000-09-19 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 9/19/00 03:11 PM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>I'd like to structure my DTML so it is vaguely readable:
>
> 
> 
> -
> 
>
>This means inserting newlines and doing some indenting.  Unfortunately,
>since I'm generating plain text, the newlines and indentation count (unlike
>with HTML)...

Even in HTML, the indents and newlines count by showing up as a space 
before the '-' in the above example. You can fix this with good readability 
simply by "delaying" the closing '>'. For example,

 -





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Re: [Zope] restrictedTraverse - yay! :-)

2000-09-15 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 9/15/00 10:05 AM, Chris Withers wrote:
>So:
>
>
>
>will work as I expect it to?

Well, I don't know what you expect :-) When I try to save such a construct 
with the handy-dandy Change button I get

Document Template Parse Error
Invalid attribute name, "absolute_url", for tag  ...


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[Zope] Indirection, acquisition, asphyxiation

2000-09-14 Thread Dennis Nichols

I'm having trouble using the value of a property to determine which object 
to render (Zope 2.2.1, if it makes any difference). Starting from the 
beginning, let's say I have two folders A and B with four DTML methods 
(Nilo, Alpha, Smalpha, and Bravo):

/
Nilo
/A
   Alpha
   Smalpha
/B
   Bravo

 From Alpha, I can render Nilo, Smalpha, and Bravo by using this dtml:

  (or )
   (or )
 (not !)

OK, now I want a property of folder A, call it 'choice', to determine what 
should be rendered by Alpha. So I rewrite Alpha to include:

   either 
   or 

These work nicely if I set 'choice' to 'Nilo' or 'Smalpha' but I don't see 
how to make either one work for Bravo! Setting 'choice' to 'B.Bravo' gives me:

Error Type: KeyError
Error Value: B.Bravo

How do I get this to work for Bravo (and still keep it working for the 
other cases)? Clearly my zen needs some tending to.

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RE: [Zope] Underscore Caracter

2000-09-05 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 9/5/00 09:54 PM, Chris McDonough wrote:
>It should be noted that _.string.replace() is not mentioned in the DTML
>reference guide.  If it exists, it should be used.  Sigh.  I can't wait
>for the Zope Book to come out, I'm going to be the first buyer.  ;-)

Not that I would expect it to exist, but according to "Python Essential 
Reference" p. 117, it is indeed present in the string module:

 replace( str, old, new [,max] )



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Re: [Zope] zope as program

2000-06-13 Thread Dennis Nichols

At 09:19 PM 6/13/00 -0500, Malcolm C. Mallette wrote:
>Zope is the worst excuse of a program I have ever encountered.

Ahhh, now we're getting some place. Zope's learning curve can be _very_ 
steep (depending on one's experience), but every day that I work with it, I 
am amazed at what can be accomplished and how it can be extended. As a 
counter example, I've used PHP since it was PHP/FI and found it an order of 
magnitude easier to learn. But it would take me forever to use PHP to 
publish content the way I can with Zope. Zope = harder to learn, much 
bigger rewards.

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