[Zope-dev] Re: Proposal: Rename zope package
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Why would they switch to Zope 2.8 if not for the component architecture? To stay current? To get MVCC? To get new-style extension classes, and thus access to many modern Python features. Later releases will provide benefits beyond just the Z3 features. But, if they are willing to investigate into new features, new-style extensions classes and all that, a small package rename from Zope to Zope2 should be just as manageable. My point was that Zope 2 will make advances independent of Zope 3. Zope 3 technology isn't the only reason for people to upgrade. Also, sometimes, people *need* to upgrade to retain support. That may be the only reason to upgrade for some folks. (Perhaps we, the community, need to provide better management of old releases, but that's a different topic.) We need better ways to manage change. Up to now, Zope 3 has established a culture of embracing change and damning backward compatibility. That was exactly the right culture for Zope 3. When Zope X3.0 enters beta, however, we'll need to shift to embrace change *and* backward compatibility through an orderly change process. We will need to figure out what that process is. Up to now, Zope 2 hasn't managed change very well. Historically, Zope 2 has put expediency and backward compatibility before cleanliness and elegance. I'm a major offender here. We will often pile hacks on top of hacks to retain backward compatibility. This was driven to an extensive degree by practical realities, but it was also a result of a lack of appreciation of the benefits of architectural restructuring and the lack of a change process. We didn't so much evolve as accumulate. We must learn to evolve. I'm optimistic that, as Zope 3 stabilizes and begins to merge with Zope 2, we will establish a new healthier culture of change and compatibility. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Proposal: Rename zope package
Jim Fulton wrote: Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Why would they switch to Zope 2.8 if not for the component architecture? To stay current? To get MVCC? To get new-style extension classes, and thus access to many modern Python features. Later releases will provide benefits beyond just the Z3 features. But, if they are willing to investigate into new features, new-style extensions classes and all that, a small package rename from Zope to Zope2 should be just as manageable. Philipp ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Proposal: Rename zope package
Jim Fulton wrote: Tres Seaver wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: Based on recent discussions, I've created a proposal: http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/RenameTheZopePackage to rename the "zope" package to "z". Unless there are strong objections, we'll do this after we move the Zope repository head to subversion at the end of the month. I've gotten enough negative feedback to "z", that I've added an alternative 4 to the proposal: 4. Rename the Zope package to Zope2 and provide a legacy Zope package -1, for reasons I've stated before. Before you said: > the amount of third-party code which we would break is incalculable. we *can't* inflict the pain on the large set of installed production servers to favor "cleanliness" for the one only installed by arrow-backed pioneers. We would be *much* better off with the status quo ante than with such a "solution". I tried to address your concerns. The proposal should *not* inflict pain on installed production servers. Is your complaint that: - There will be deprecation warnings or that - We would not enable this by default in 2.9, Sorry for the misunderstanding, which was mine: given the current deprecation scheme, I am only -0 on the notion. Tres. -- === Tres Seaver[EMAIL PROTECTED] Zope Corporation "Zope Dealers" http://www.zope.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Proposal: Rename zope package
| I had thought about exactly this idea during the weekend but I thought | the "z" alternative had such traction that it wasn't worth mentioning. | The only difference is that I thought about renaming Zope to ZopeClassic | or ZopeLegacy instead of Zope2 (keeping version numbers out of packages | and all that...) . o O (hum zope.68k) -- Sidnei da Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://awkly.org - dreamcatching :: making your dreams come true http://plone.org/about/team#dreamcatcher Happiness is twin floppies. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: Proposal: Rename zope package
+1 I had thought about exactly this idea during the weekend but I thought the "z" alternative had such traction that it wasn't worth mentioning. The only difference is that I thought about renaming Zope to ZopeClassic or ZopeLegacy instead of Zope2 (keeping version numbers out of packages and all that...) Cheers, On Tue, 2004-04-20 at 13:08, Jim Fulton wrote: > [...] > I've gotten enough negative feedback to "z", that I've added an alternative 4 > to the proposal: > >4. Rename the Zope package to Zope2 and provide a legacy Zope > package > > - Rename the "Zope" package to "Zope2" > > - Put the Zope 3 "zope" package into the same location as > "Zope2" in a combined installation. > > - Provide a legacy directory containing a "Zope" package. > There will be an option to add this to the Python path. This > option will be enabled by default in Zope 2.8 and disabled by > default in Zope 2.9. > > Importing Zope will cause a deprecation warning. > > The legacy Zope package will have a README.txt file that > explains what it is and refers people to the zope and Zope2 > packages. > > This would mainly impact Zope 2. > > What do people think about alternative 4? > > Jim -- Leonardo Rochael Almeida <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: Proposal: Rename zope package
Jim Fulton wrote: Based on recent discussions, I've created a proposal: http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/RenameTheZopePackage to rename the "zope" package to "z". Unless there are strong objections, we'll do this after we move the Zope repository head to subversion at the end of the month. I've gotten enough negative feedback to "z", that I've added an alternative 4 to the proposal: 4. Rename the Zope package to Zope2 and provide a legacy Zope package - Rename the "Zope" package to "Zope2" - Put the Zope 3 "zope" package into the same location as "Zope2" in a combined installation. - Provide a legacy directory containing a "Zope" package. There will be an option to add this to the Python path. This option will be enabled by default in Zope 2.8 and disabled by default in Zope 2.9. Importing Zope will cause a deprecation warning. The legacy Zope package will have a README.txt file that explains what it is and refers people to the zope and Zope2 packages. This would mainly impact Zope 2. What do people think about alternative 4? Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
