Re: [Zope-dev] Re: ZClassNG proposal makes Archetypes Easy.
On 4/25/07, Christopher Lozinski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And I would like these schema generators to understand not only specific python objects, but also the network of python business objects. [...] I would like a security model based on business rules. There is nothing in ZClasses that help you do this, as compared with doing it with say, Plone and ATSchemaEditorNG. That is way different from the Zope 2 security model. Well, no it isn't. It's a bit different from the CMF security model, agreed. I think Zope 3 comes closer to allowing me to build my own security model. Sure. So, Zope3 + userschemas and some workflow then. THAT would be useful. Fiddling with ZClasses is not. Of course I would love such a security model in Zope 2, but I am not waiting for it. Maybe I could do it with 5. You can do it with ordinary Zope2 as well and it's not even hard, but admittedly it's tricky if you want to do everything TTW. But then, we have constantly told you not to. :-) For my next app the only thing I have approved so far is python and ZODB. Very reasonable attitude. -- Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting. http://www.colliberty.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: ZClassNG proposal makes Archetypes Easy.
--On 25. April 2007 07:48:04 +0200 Lennart Regebro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 4/24/07, Laurence Rowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I actually think TTW schema generation has some validity (so content types can be easily generated by users). Totally. What Christopher needs can be done with for example CPS, quite easily, and maybe with Plone as well, if there is a TTW Schema editori for Plone (I have heard rumours :-) ). ATSchemaEditorNG...we used lately SignupSheet (which uses ATSENG) for the upcoming Zope conference in Germany for the call for papers and the registration for the participants...works like a charm. But that isn't what he thinks he wants, :-) Famous last words: "ZClassesss.." -aj pgpdkFgfQwINZ.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: ZClassNG proposal makes Archetypes Easy.
On 4/24/07, Laurence Rowe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I actually think TTW schema generation has some validity (so content types can be easily generated by users). Totally. What Christopher needs can be done with for example CPS, quite easily, and maybe with Plone as well, if there is a TTW Schema editori for Plone (I have heard rumours :-) ). But that isn't what he thinks he wants, :-) -- Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting. http://www.colliberty.com/ +33 661 58 14 64 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: ZClassNG proposal makes Archetypes Easy.
Andreas Jung-5 wrote: > >> Okay. Let me rephrase. Most people don't find it painful, and a huge >> number of developers are being very productive with Archetypes. I know >> you hate it Chris, but you are in the minority. >> > > I have to second that. The latest versions of AT are pretty much stable > and > usable. AT is no longer the PITA framework it was some years ago - as long > as you don't look under the hood and as long as you don't try to be > tricky. > AT works fine if you use it the 'standard' way - however it slaps you when > you're trying to be smarter than AT. > > Using Z3-schemas + formlib is definitely the preferred way to go. We got a > basic content-type working for a customer based on z3-schema/formlib > within > half a day (without having any knowledge in Z3 schemas and formlib). > Eventually, I expect that a Z3 schema/formlib based approach an Archetypes will converge; for the moment, most people will still be way more productive with straight Archetypes in Plone, because things like references, WYSIWYG editors and transformations are not yet as mature outside of Archetypes. For simple things, I've had some success wtih plone.app.content in Plone 3. Martin -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ZClassNG-proposal--makes-Archetypes-Easy.-tf3627364.html#a10137832 Sent from the Zope - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: ZClassNG proposal makes Archetypes Easy.
--On 23. April 2007 03:57:25 -0700 Martin Aspeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Chris Withers wrote: Martin Aspeli wrote: Plone development with Archetypes is not painful. Hundreds of developers do it, so it can't be that bad. Urm, that's not true. Archetypes is the single most painful component to use from Plone... It's also the biggest source of frustration I have with Plone. Okay. Let me rephrase. Most people don't find it painful, and a huge number of developers are being very productive with Archetypes. I know you hate it Chris, but you are in the minority. I have to second that. The latest versions of AT are pretty much stable and usable. AT is no longer the PITA framework it was some years ago - as long as you don't look under the hood and as long as you don't try to be tricky. AT works fine if you use it the 'standard' way - however it slaps you when you're trying to be smarter than AT. Using Z3-schemas + formlib is definitely the preferred way to go. We got a basic content-type working for a customer based on z3-schema/formlib within half a day (without having any knowledge in Z3 schemas and formlib). -aj pgp4ad6Rolpq6.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: ZClassNG proposal makes Archetypes Easy.
Chris Withers wrote: > > Martin Aspeli wrote: >> Plone development with Archetypes is not painful. Hundreds of developers >> do it, so it can't be that bad. > > Urm, that's not true. Archetypes is the single most painful component to > use from Plone... > > It's also the biggest source of frustration I have with Plone. > Okay. Let me rephrase. Most people don't find it painful, and a huge number of developers are being very productive with Archetypes. I know you hate it Chris, but you are in the minority. In any case, you may be interested to see some experiments we've been doing with using formlib and Zope3-like content types, not using Archetypes. See http://dev.plone.org/plone/browser/plone.app.content/trunk/plone/app/content/basecontent.txt. It won't be a full alternative to Archetypes for a while, because AT provides functionality that doesn't (yet) have any equivalent outside AT, but for simple things it may be worth exploring. Martin -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ZClassNG-proposal--makes-Archetypes-Easy.-tf3627364.html#a10137580 Sent from the Zope - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: ZClassNG proposal makes Archetypes Easy.
Martin Aspeli wrote: Plone development with Archetypes is not painful. Hundreds of developers do it, so it can't be that bad. Urm, that's not true. Archetypes is the single most painful component to use from Plone... It's also the biggest source of frustration I have with Plone. Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
