Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-29 Thread Gary Poster
On Aug 27, 2005, at 6:08 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Gary Poster wrote: We have at least three maintained and capable ZODB backends, with different strengths and weaknesses, appropriate for different use cases. Lets not jump to discard any of them. With current filesystem

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-27 Thread Wichert Akkerman
Previously Gary Poster wrote: We have at least three maintained and capable ZODB backends, with different strengths and weaknesses, appropriate for different use cases. Lets not jump to discard any of them. With current filesystem developments it might be interesting to try and use more

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Martijn Faassen
Hi there, A few contributions to this interesting discussion... [snip the Zope 3 catalog is not a hack, and clean and simple] The catalog and index code is not a hack, and is in fact simple, effective and flexible. Python is the query language, and the lack of an optimizer is not a reason

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Lennart Regebro
I'm not convinced that Florent blog entry says what Gary thinks it does, but I agree with Gary on the other stuff: It should be possible by configuration, to switch out at least some parts to a relational database. The catalog indexes and metadata is a prime example of this. No, there is nothing

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Gary Poster
On Aug 23, 2005, at 3:44 PM, Janko Hauser wrote: Am 23.08.2005 um 20:36 schrieb Shane Hathaway: Gary Poster wrote: On Aug 23, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Gary Poster wrote: Argh, communication. That still could be too-easily misinterpreted, and I didn't stare at it long enough before I

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Paul Winkler
Martijn Faassen wrote: Missing powerful query concepts --- Certain powerful query concepts like joins, available in a relational setting, are missing. I've already run into a scenario where I wanted to someting like this: given a bunch of version objects with

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Gary Poster
On Aug 24, 2005, at 6:27 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote: Hi there, A few contributions to this interesting discussion... [snip the Zope 3 catalog is not a hack, and clean and simple] The catalog and index code is not a hack, and is in fact simple, effective and flexible. Python is the query

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Gary Poster
On Aug 24, 2005, at 8:08 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote: I'm not convinced that Florent blog entry says what Gary thinks it does, Hopefully you can see where I would get my interpretation, though. I'm happy to have Florent clarify on his return. This is a good discussion in any case. but

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Lennart Regebro
On 8/24/05, Gary Poster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hopefully you can see where I would get my interpretation, though. Yup. ZODB catalog story has compelling advantages over an RDBMS catalog, in addition to disadvantages. I'm sure they do, although I'm not immediately aware of them (I would be

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Martijn Faassen
Paul Winkler wrote: Martijn Faassen wrote: Missing powerful query concepts --- Certain powerful query concepts like joins, available in a relational setting, are missing. I've already run into a scenario where I wanted to someting like this: given a bunch of

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Santi Camps
En/na [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha escrit: Martijn Faassen wrote: Missing powerful query concepts --- Certain powerful query concepts like joins, available in a relational setting, are missing. I've already run into a scenario where I wanted to someting like this: given

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Martijn Faassen
Gary Poster wrote: On Aug 24, 2005, at 6:27 AM, Martijn Faassen wrote: [snip] Now as to where I see areas where features are lacking in the Zope 3 catalog: Underfeatured query API --- [snip query API discussion] Another way of looking at this--or simply an additional

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Janko Hauser
Am 24.08.2005 um 18:02 schrieb Martijn Faassen: Yes, this is bringing the transparency a step further. Basically what you'd be doing is building an object relational abstraction based on the Zope catalog. :) Interestingly the discussion has gone from a general concern of the usage of

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Dieter Maurer
Martijn Faassen wrote at 2005-8-24 17:28 +0200: ... In your example you haven't done a join as I describe above, unless I miss something. The essential part is that I want an object with state 'PUBLISHED' unless there is another object where field 'ID' is the same as this object that is with

Catalog improvements (was: Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry)

2005-08-24 Thread Dieter Maurer
Martijn Faassen wrote at 2005-8-24 12:27 +0200: ... Underfeatured query API --- I do think that currently the API to query it is woefully underfeatured. I've tried to work on this problem and am sitting on some code that just needs a bit of time to polish and release that

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-24 Thread Michel Pelletier
This is a general reply, Martijn just summed up many of the points so nicely (as usual) that I'm using his email as a starting point... From: Martijn Faassen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry I have had some opportunity to work with the Zope 3 catalog

[Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-23 Thread Gary Poster
I recently read Florent's object/relational blog entry at http:// blogs.nuxeo.com/sections/blogs/florent_guillaume/ 2005_08_11_object_relational . It's getting a bit old now, but I didn't see much discussion (or a way to make a comment) so I thought I'd bring it up here to invite shared

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-23 Thread Gary Poster
On Aug 23, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Gary Poster wrote: FWIW, my concluding sentence would have been better written as Meanwhile, deciding that a community project require an O/R back end over FileStorage or DirectoryStorage, as Florent argues, feels like a significant case of throwing the baby

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-23 Thread Gary Poster
On Aug 23, 2005, at 12:56 PM, Shane Hathaway wrote: Gary Poster wrote: In conclusion, the nebulous concept of enterprise applications on Zope does not have a clear cut decision for or against an O/R mapper such as Ape. The cost of O/R mappings is not inconsequential, and the

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-23 Thread Shane Hathaway
Gary Poster wrote: On Aug 23, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Gary Poster wrote: FWIW, my concluding sentence would have been better written as Meanwhile, deciding that a community project require an O/R back end over FileStorage or DirectoryStorage, as Florent argues, feels like a significant case of

Re: [Zope3-dev] Florent's O-R blog entry

2005-08-23 Thread Janko Hauser
Am 23.08.2005 um 20:36 schrieb Shane Hathaway: Gary Poster wrote: On Aug 23, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Gary Poster wrote: Argh, communication. That still could be too-easily misinterpreted, and I didn't stare at it long enough before I sent it. One more try. Meanwhile, deciding that a